Hi. Just purchased VWD today, so I have a lot to learn about it. I'm having problems with "Nail to Collision". I have the vertices's selected and hit the button, yet it will not stay put. I am using clothes made with Marvelous Designer and the new Pauline2 figure that was part of the Poser 11.1 update last week. My clothes where a shirt and some shorts that was in a single OBJ, but I split them up and that was worse for some reason. Separate sims for the two pieces of course, but now the shirt works and the shorts either fly off of the screen or get sucked up inside of the figure. I selected the material zone I made in the shorts which is a rather wide waistband, so there should be enough verts there, but it acts real strange. I tried static and dynamic both. I next moved on to a similar cloth for Miki4, a shirt and shorts in a single OBJ. This time the shorts worked fine, but the top slips down gradually. I did not split this model yet. In my screenshot, the figure on your left is Pauline2, and the clothes where split in two pieces. I could never get the shorts to work. These are not simulated at all. The one on your right is Miki4, and the clothes are in one piece (OBJ). The straps on the shirt and waistband of the shorts are nailed, but only the shorts act as expected. If I need to split the clothes in two pieces that is fine, but I can't get it to work on the Pauline figure that way either. I have watched the videos and read the manual, and something is wrong possibly with the Pauline figure or those shorts, I don't know. I am not giving up yet though. I did one simulation that was fine, but it was a Wizard Robe type of garment with long sleeves and a small neck hole, so I can't tell if the nailing worked or not, probably wasn't needed for that one anyways. This was on the Creepy Kid Too figure. I will say that the quality of the simulation surpassed the Poser cloth room by a good margin. I need to try some different figure and clothing items, and try different settings, but I am using the settings from the Biscuits videos and the manual, so I am having a hard time figuring out what I am doing wrong.

In this case the clothes are two different objects. The nail seems to be working, so I'm making progress.When the shoulder of Miki4 rotates down, the shirt strap follows, but I think the vertices's are nailed to the collision object. Another question is why the clothes inflate so much, when I leave inflate un-ticked? These images are not rendered by the way, just open GL preview screen grabs.

Still no luck nailing anything to Pauline 2. In this case the shorts just slid down one leg, but I have seen them fly off of the screen or go inside of the figure. I am beginning some tests with the Hivewire Dawn figure next.

Balloon effect: When you selected Dawn (or Pauline2) as the collision object what Collision distance did you use? The default is 0.2 Nail to collision: I note that you have it set to 1. That will have almost no "Nail to" effect. Try 0.1 (which I think is the default). If you want it to have some movement then try 0.2

But this is all in the manual that came with VWD!
Have a Happy New Year.

npayn posted at 11:55PM Fri, 05 January 2018 - #4321714

Balloon effect: When you selected Dawn (or Pauline2) as the collision object what Collision distance did you use? The default is 0.2 Nail to collision: I note that you have it set to 1. That will have almost no "Nail to" effect. Try 0.1 (which I think is the default). If you want it to have some movement then try 0.2

But this is all in the manual that came with VWD!
Have a Happy New Year.

Thanks for your reply. I have been using the default settings mostly up to this point, but I did notice that I have a newer version of the software and some of the default settings don't match the videos or docs. I will try changing the Collision distance as you suggest. I still don't know why Pauline 2 is so buggy. It makes no sense that the figure would make such a difference, they are all just geometry after all. I have read the entire manual, but not absorbed it all yet, to be sure. I know VWD is a great plug-in and makes sense for me since I have invested in Marvelous Designer. I have made conforming clothes a few times and it takes me a couple of weeks just to make one conforming cloth, where I can make many dynamic clothes in that amount of time. They look better posed as well, even with Poser's cloth room. Ditto on the New Year!

Hello ribroast,

I wish you a happy new year and I ask you to forgive me to reply so late.

The "Nail to collision" is a simple function which creates springs between the character and the cloth. The default value is 0.1 which defines a middle value : not too stiff and not too soft. It corresponds to many cases. Have you applied this function on the top of the short AND on the top of the shirt. If you use these two parts in only one cloth, you can apply this nailing by using one selection or two selections. If you use these two parts as separated clothes, you have to do two simulations and you have to do a selection by simulation.

I know Pauline is not easy to use with VWD. I don't know why because this mesh is not so different from Genesis 1,2,3,8. I don't know if I own Pauline 2. If I have it, I will make some tests with she. Have you make some tests with other characters.

I suggest you to reinitialize all the settings (in the utilities tab). You will be sure to use all the default settings.

I hope these informations will help you.

For now, I have a lot of work and I take sometime to reply. The next week will be as this yet but this problem will be resolved on the week that will follow. Sorry for this.

 Gérald

I somehow feel that the direction of the normals matters for VWD. Someone did some experiments by flipping normals of an item could cause it to suck under another item, faking it being tucked in. So maybe when you split the mesh into pieces some normals got flipped? It's a long shot but if you have a modeling program (Hexagon beta is free at DAZ now) you can look and see easily enough. Good luck.

VirtualWorldDynamics posted at 12:32AM Mon, 08 January 2018 - #4321797

Hello ribroast,

I wish you a happy new year and I ask you to forgive me to reply so late.

The "Nail to collision" is a simple function which creates springs between the character and the cloth. The default value is 0.1 which defines a middle value : not too stiff and not too soft. It corresponds to many cases. Have you applied this function on the top of the short AND on the top of the shirt. If you use these two parts in only one cloth, you can apply this nailing by using one selection or two selections. If you use these two parts as separated clothes, you have to do two simulations and you have to do a selection by simulation.

I know Pauline is not easy to use with VWD. I don't know why because this mesh is not so different from Genesis 1,2,3,8. I don't know if I own Pauline 2. If I have it, I will make some tests with she. Have you make some tests with other characters.

I suggest you to reinitialize all the settings (in the utilities tab). You will be sure to use all the default settings.

I hope these informations will help you.

For now, I have a lot of work and I take sometime to reply. The next week will be as this yet but this problem will be resolved on the week that will follow. Sorry for this.

 Gérald

Hi Gérald, For some reason my default nail distance was 1, not .01, so I have been changing that, and it helps. I am having better luck overall, but Pauline still is a problem. There is more than nailing going on there, it seems that her mesh acts differently as a collision object as well. Sometimes one leg of a pair of pants won't collide at all, and they will slide down the other one to the floor. I do usually remember to clear the transfer files as the first step for a new simulation. I wouldn't worry too much about the Pauline figure, not a deal breaker there. I made a bunch of clothes for her with Marvelous Designer because I don't have any for her in the first place, but I have many other figures that I use a lot more. After figuring out some of the settings in VWD I am happy with the results with the Hivewire figures. I am making some clothes for the new Project Evolution figure that was finally released the other day. I will be testing those out soon. I have also made clothes for many weird figures, like the Sixus1 monsters, Orks, etc. I haven't tested those in VWD yet, but I will. I had great luck with a figure called Creepy Kid Too (2). The clothes are a Wizard robe type of thing with the huge openings on the cuffs. I was not sure if the nailing was working because that robe has a small neck hole and long sleeves, but the simulation was perfect. I really respect what you have done with this software, and I knew there was a learning curve going in. As far as the Pauline figure, that is the one that ships with Poser 11. They just came out with a updated version, called Pauline 2 that ships with the 11.1 update to Poser. That is the one I am having trouble with. That figure causes all sorts of grief when making conforming clothes as well. Your query "Have you applied this function on the top of the short AND on the top of the shirt." tells me it IS OK to make the outfit in one OBJ. Yes I did attempt to nail it on the shoulder straps and the waist of the shorts. I started splitting the clothes up because I thought this was causing problems. At that time my collision distance was set to 1 instead of .01 also. Thanks for your help, I think a lot of the problem was the figure, Pauline 2, which makes no sense but seems to be the case. After I started to get good results with Dawn, I tried Pauline again, and had the same bad outcome.

grinch2901 posted at 1:19AM Mon, 08 January 2018 - #4321829

I somehow feel that the direction of the normals matters for VWD. Someone did some experiments by flipping normals of an item could cause it to suck under another item, faking it being tucked in. So maybe when you split the mesh into pieces some normals got flipped? It's a long shot but if you have a modeling program (Hexagon beta is free at DAZ now) you can look and see easily enough. Good luck.

Hi, thanks for the input. The normals occurred to me as well. That is not the case, unfortunately. I have Hexagon, bought it from Eovia, before they sold it to Daz. I also use Silo, Zbrush, and I just bought Lightwave a couple weeks ago. I have been opening these OBJ's up and splitting the shirt and pants into two objects and UV mapping them, it would of been very apparent. Especially in my UV software, where it would of been pure black where the UV's flipped. The clothes come out of Marvelous Designer with decent UV's, but the names of the parts and material zones make no sense, so I always edit those. I usually pack the UV's differently as well to use the space more efficiently. Whenever I touch a model with a modeling program, I always open it up with my UV editor and check it over. Sometime you pick up extra material zones with no geometry, like "default" for example. For some reason the Pauline figure is the only one giving me problems now, after I figured out the proper settings for VWD that is.

Hey Ribroast,

I added a nudity tag to your posts. If there's a bare naked lady, please tag with nudity. I know you can't see anything, but better safe than sorry.

Huggles!

I made a new dress for Pauline 2 that works pretty decent. Her leg is exposed on the other side due to the arm that comes close to the skin, but this is just for testing and I realize that I would bring the arm down after the dress has settled. Also this dress has pleats but I did not tackle that yet. There must be something wrong with the other clothes that I was using. It looks like I will be able to use Pauline 2 after all, which is nice because they just added a bunch of ethnic morphs and texture sets in the recent update.

And here is one of Creepy Kid Too. Thanks for the advice everyone, I think I got it now.

Hello ribroast,

What is the mesh size and shape you use for your clothes when you make them in MD? For me, the best shape is the triangle and 0.5 inch is generally a good size.

Have tried these values?

Hello ribroast,

What is the mesh size and shape you use for your clothes when you make them in MD? For me, the best shape is the triangle and 0.5 inch is generally a good size.

Have tried these values?

Not sure what you mean by 0.5 inch size. I use the triangle mesh with a particle distance of 10 mm (default is 20 mm). This makes the mesh more dense. I export my figures as collada (.dae) from Poser using default settings, centimeters 100%. I import them as a avatar using the default millimeters settings. But now when I export my clothes I use Poser 8.6' settings and the size is perfect. I have seen on forums that other people use different settings but this works for me. I find that exporting at Poser scale or importing at that scale don't work for me. Also exporting the clothes using the same scale that I exported from Poser with (centimeters 100%) makes the clothes as big as a mountain.

When I first got Marvelous Designer I was hoping to make conforming clothes using the quad meshes, but those quad meshes have a really bad poly flow. They would have to be re-topolized anyway. It is easier to just model the clothes from scratch for conforming clothes. Then I started using the dynamic clothes with the Poser cloth room, after using Poser for many years I never really got into dynamic clothes, but now I really like it. Sometimes conforming clothes need a lot of tweaking to eliminate poke through, so it does not take much longer to set up dynamic simulations. The dynamic clothes look more natural as well. It takes me many hours to make a conforming clothes that works half way decent, I am not a pro at that yet, but with Marvelous Designer it takes a hour or less. The first clothes I tried with VWD gave me problems that I could never resolve, but I have had good luck with other ones since. I thought it might have been a problem with the Pauline 2 figure, but it was those clothes for some reason. When I have more time, I will be trying it with hair, and stiffening up some collars and pleats on dresses. The Poser cloth room is somewhat limited in that regard. Also, you can't save your settings, so you have to set it up from scratch every time. I am really happy to have VWD to use, thanks!

Hello. I have a question Will 「VWD Cloth And Hair」 and 「Daz Studio bridge for VWD Cloth and Hair」 function correctly even if I upgrade Daz Studio to 4.10 Pro? Thank you.

Hello ribroast,

Your mesh is very good. The particle distance set at 10mm is perfect almost the same than 0.5 inch (12.5mm). I agree with you, the quad meshing is not a good solution for the simulations, the triangles are better. My problem with the meshes generated by MD as with many others softwares, is the mesh generation uses Delaunay method which creates irregular triangles. I prefer to use a frontal generation. I want to create some clothes and I want to use this meshing method. I sent a test dress to Biscuits who didn't find a different behaviour. Personally, I find the clothes using this method are easier to rigidify. Would you be interested by testing several mesh sizes and shapes?

Hello tkhjk,

Yes you can upgrade Daz Studio to 4.10 Pro if you use the latest version.

ribroast: (awesome name)

Good to see you got it worked out. Looks like you are off to a good start, and have a good understanding of meshes, UV's, normals, and etc.

I was one of the earlier posters regarding the inverted normals technique (but grinch2901 might have been referring to someone else). It is very useful technique to push meshes inside such as a shirt into pants, hair under hat, and etc.

I used it specifically for a difficult simulation with an Aikido/Kendo Gi top and Hakama pants (created in Marvelous Designer 2).

The reason I am mentioning this is two-fold. First, as a MD user, I am creating the same dynamic meshes that you are, and I can tell you that you can use full outfits as either one piece, or as separated meshes. I am posting a link below which shows a use case where identical outfits were simulated with different settings with one as a full outfit, and the other as separated pieces. Second, in the same use case I demonstrate the different use of settings to maintain pleats in my Hakama trousers with one being a stiffer material with hard pleats, and the other being a softer material with soft pleats. Keep in mind, these are both identical meshes, and only settings within VWD are changed to accomplish the looks needed. I believe you are wanting to explore pleats, so this might be of some use to you.

Please have a look at this thread here:

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2902807&page_number=5#msg4296101

VWD is a godsend, have fun with your future endeavors...

@DaremoK3: Hello Ken,

I am very happy you enjoy to work with VWD. As I said in an older post, I had to work a lot on another project but I will be able to restart the VWD development in the next week. I want, first, to finalize the GPU programming to be able to send a new version quickly enough. Then, I certainly will open a new thread to define with users what are the priorities for development.

Thank you for your comment. Have a great new year.

  Gérald

tkhjk posted at 8:11PM Sat, 13 January 2018 - #4322060

Hello. I have a question Will 「VWD Cloth And Hair」 and 「Daz Studio bridge for VWD Cloth and Hair」 function correctly even if I upgrade Daz Studio to 4.10 Pro? Thank you.

Hello tkhjk

For Daz Studio 4.10 it is best to use the 4.10 bridge fix that Philemot provide in thread "https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2918429&page_number=2#"

His original bridge will work but some items may fall apart when simulated in VWD (depends on how the item was made). Daz changed their export function in 4.10 so that the weld functionality that was used by the original bridge to hold parts together when copied to VWD, no longer works. The fix that Philemot release overcomes the problem.

@npayn: Thank you for this info. I didn't have this problem with the 4.10 version. I will use the new version of the bridge. Thank you to give the link again.