Attached Link: Right Click And Download the Morph

Please download the morph at the attached link (right-click and save target as)  if you wish to try out this morph on V4. Please ONLY download if you are serious about testing it to help solve the issue of V4's unnatural-looking underarm crease.

Please post comments and images in this thread when you've tried it.

To load, load a fresh V4 in default. Select Right Collar. On Parameter Dials pallet chose tab Properties. Click on Load Morph Target. Find the file with the browse. Check box  "attempt vertex order correction." Morph wil load. Designed to be optimal at "1".

The morph is created from scratch with the Poser 7 morph brush tool. No combination with any Daz morph. Morph file has been "squished" down to only verts; there is no Daz proprietory in the file. File size 42K

On the images posted on the following three posts, the morph has been applied only to the Right Collar, so you can compare with the default left collar.

::::: Opera :::::

To get rid of problems like this I simply move the center point to a new position after posing (joint editor). This can easily be done for any figure. For allmost all bends, not only the shoulder.

adp your idea would not work for animation, right?

Nice.

Those underarms really bother me - ( that and the wierd flat thighs you see when the legs are bent.)

I think Daz standard look better in the top pict - your's is better in the mid pict and it's a tossup in the lower pict.

The right shoulder looks very good, but the left shoulder still has some sharpness that you might want to try to get rid of.  I'm really impressed with that right shoulder, it looks great.
edit: although you might want to smooth the arm just a little bit.

**pjz99
**
you didn't pick up on my note in the first post....there is no custom morph on Left Collar; that is the default. I am only showing the Right Collar morph for contrast.

Did you (or would you) download the morph and try it out to see it up close and in action?

::::: opera :::::

Oh, oops, I misunderstood (bad habit of mine).  I'll give it a try, sure.

edit: be aware that when you go to move the morph to the right side, the vertex order probably will not match, and you may get some lumpy results.  Other people have reported the same when trying to mirror morphs specifically on V4.

I think you are on the right track, but I suspect the JSMs in the adjacent bodyparts are fighting with you.  I have no idea how to get around that, although I'm sure there's a way.

what's a jsm? and how would they fight this process?

Quote - adp your idea would not work for animation, right?

Why shouldn't this work with animations?

It's not more than setting a morphdial. If I find the time I do a Python script dealing with this in realtime while posing (animating).

Quote - what's a jsm? and how would they fight this process?

Seems to be a typo. Should be "JCM", not "jsm".
(JCM = Joint Controled Morph)

Nope, I meant JSM, new in V4 (Joint Smoothing Morph or Magnet [I forget which]) as opposed to Joint Controlled Morph.  That is all the magnets and deformer areas built into V4.  Irritatingly, DAZ has little information published on how they work or even what they do.

Killing two birds with one stone - some description of JSMs in action, and Operaguy this thread might be very helpful to you especially regarding V4's shoulder cut:
http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=52444&highlight=jsm

Oh, thanks for clarifying! I dind't do mutch with V4 until yesterday. Have had a lot of projects to finish with good old V3.

Just tested if "the center trick" works with V4. Yep! In some poses a helper magnet may be required. Bendings are more natural compared to V3.

Here is a sample with a quick joint correction for V4.

... that actually looks quite good.  Which joint centre did you move, collar or shoulder? or both?

Only the shoulder.
Perhaps the blending zone has to be changed a bit. Depends on the pose. If there is a break between shoulder and collar, carefully change the joint angles. If you did it a few times, this is done in a few seconds. Better and easier than dealing with 1000 morphs and magnets. I'm really a morph-freak - but bending is nothing morphs are good for because there are so many side effects.

By the way: While working on joints P7 is very helpfull because of the new Undo feature.

Quote - Nice.

Those underarms really bother me - ( that and the wierd flat thighs you see when the legs are bent.)

Here is a picture of a joint corrected underarm. Tooks just 2 minutes.

That's pretty helpful, thanks for the info.  I bet Operaguy is going to want to talk to you about your idea of scripting this kind of thing in animation :)

My entire motivation is simply to make V4 usable to me in an animation, for the stories I want to make. The way Daz left her underarm makes this impossible; she looks unnatural both with arms at side and partially/fully raised.

I screamed about it for a while on various forums, but no reaction from Daz or any of the technically-oriented posters around the PoserSphere.

So, I, an artist -- not a techical -- just grabbed the Morph Brush Tool and took this as an opportunity to fix a botched (but otherwise wonderful) model, V4, and at the same time learn the morph brush tool.

I've gotten the morph to where V4 looks okay to me. I am aware, as several pointed out, that cloning to the Left Collar might be problematic since V4 is not going to be perfectly symetrical, and will cross that bridge soon.

Meanwhile, if my little adventure has spurred someone REALLY knowlegable to come up with a joint-based fix that is simpler and/or better-looking...well that gets me where I want to go too!

So I hope you follow through APD and present the community with a really cool joint-based animation-capable solution. I can't get involved with that personally right now as it is a subject over my head and I am not desireous of going on the learning curve.

I will finish my morph-based solution to bring it fully to the point where I can happily actually use V4, then put it in freebies for anyone else to use or take and improve upon.

Any and all solutions to the V4 underarm crease problem are welcome and desired.

::::: Opera :::::

Attached Link: http://poserpros.daz3d.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=59207

Thanks English Bob, I've been getting ready to attemp the feat using a part of PhilC's Poser Tool Box. I'll check out MT Mirror also.

:: og ::

Quote - My entire motivation is simply to make V4 usable to me in an animation, for the stories I want to make. The way Daz left her underarm makes this impossible; she looks unnatural both with arms at side and partially/fully raised.

Please keep in mind that Poser and his rigging system is limited and far away from being highclass. If one thing is fixed (with  morphs or mess around with joints and bends) another thing comes along. It is simply impossible to have one standard set for anything. Means, especially in animations, you may end up in a lot of work that needs very special know how. So it may be a better solution to go over to a more professional software.

A Python solution for all possible poses on all bending limbs for all important Poser figures, easily to handle even for beginners, is a doable and certainly a bigger project. I'm not sure if so mutch people are interested that it is woth the effort. Another thing is a solution for some special cases on a certain figure.

You may be correct, overall, ADP.

However, this simple little morph just to move the mesh around slightly under the arm, is enough to make V4 usable in animation for me. It does not seem to be causing complications or any sad unintended consequences, so far.

I am working up an animation now. Might not be ready for a few days.

::::: Opera :::::

Ok, I'm done obsessing with the Right Collar morph. Now proceeding to mirror into Left Collar, then I'll post the final two morphs.

::::: Opera :::::

i think you should continue with this work, opera... both methods have their advantages and disadvantages. and i'm sure that in this case the best results will be produced by using a combination of both. plus: how many people are ok with dialling morphs, and how many are ok with joint-editing? i'm sure you'd make a lot of people happy, especially if you'd take the trouble to do something for those legs....;) A.

Quote - Ok, I'm done obsessing with the Right Collar morph. Now proceeding to mirror into Left Collar, then I'll post the final two morphs.

 
That looks excellent, nicely done.  I've been planning to do this as well for some time now but never got around to it.  Thanks for taking your time and working on this.  Looking forward to your final release.

looks good!
What happens if the shoulder is twisted or moved forward/backward?

Attached Link: Right-click and download demo, 3.9MB Quicktime, Nudity warning.

NOTE: First 2 seconds of clip shows transition from default V4 to the morph at 1.

Here's a shot of the morph on the Right Collar in action.

It may not be perfect, but since my primary motivation is to work on this until V4 looks reasonably normal to me, I'll say that I am nearly in completion. I am simply now painting a companion morph for Left Collar, might take until next weeked (day job and all that!).

I'll post the morphs to freebies "as is" and welcome others to take this further if desired.

::::: Opera :::::

That really looks quite good, nice job.

Looks pretty good to me!!  Just wondering, if there is a way to work on a fix for the shoulder when it's raised all the way up??  It crunches in and looks unnatural or perhaps I just push it too far??  Don't really think so since I like the over the head "dive" pose to use for hero kinds of renders!!

Wolf, there is a magic morph on V4 for the shoulder you probably already know about...it MIGHT help you with the scrunch you are talking about:

Body:Morphforms:ShoulderShrug

I never render V4 with that dial at zero; in my opinion, the Daz default has her shoulders pulled up a little and she looks 'uptight'. I dial her a little unshrugged.

As for a scrunch when her head is raised high......

NOTE: In the video I just posted, I was not attempting to make the action look the most natural on top where her neck meets her shoulder; i did not adjust Neck or Chest, for instance. All I did was transition Right Shoulder (which in acuality is her arm from elbow to biceps in the bizarre naming world of Daz).

Have you tried using IK and grabbing her hand and pulling it up? With limits on? With limits off? That 'MIGHT' result in a more natural appearance, since many morphs will kick in such as Chest, Shoulder, Collar, Neck as well as all the arm actors.

Also, can you post an image in a new thread?

::::: Opera :::::

UPDATE: February 6, 2019

Well, time passes and the sun goes around and around. Twelve times, apparently ...

With the release of La Femme at Renderosity, the issue of "shoulder-arm crease" has arisen anew. Originally, it was the issue of the default V4 crease going up too high and too tight, and the underarm area not looking realistic when raised. Apparently, with La Femme, the issue is "too far, too U-shaped." Nevertheless, improvement is needed.

I case anyone finds their way back here, the link to the demo video is here: Click to play animation NUDITY WARNING

and the link to the finished left/right morph, with a readme for usage, is here: Click to download zip package

Note: my amateur solution here, from 2007, has been far surpassed by add-on commercial products which work better and do more. And by one other solution that turns V4 into an immortal beauty, far surpassing all other models.

Good luck to the La Femme community.

::::: Opera :::::

"And by one other solution that turns V4 into an immortal beauty, far surpassing all other models." don't leave me in suspenders? Link me please. Love esther

Hi estherau, I teased a little too soon. General reveal next week. It's not new tech or product, just a "new pair of glasses" onto V4.

::::: Opera :::::

you are a tease! OK keep me posted. I'll look at anything. Very nice renders by the way.