infinity10 posted at 9:25AM Thu, 01 August 2019 - #4358408

Make Poser figures directly usable inside VR chat platforms (see Siggraph 2019 VTuber playlist for what's already being done: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh3vjfYmdB9nttLIzD6-gyJdK2oRyiQna

AFAIK, that would require placing the figures' geometries into the platform. That is only covered in extended game licenses - most Poser products don't have that available. The base licenses only allow content buyers to redistribute final renders/animations of the content.

Well folks - it appears that Rendo just got a way bigger priority from the looks of it...

Penguinisto posted at 3:28PM Fri, 02 August 2019 - #4358544

Well folks - it appears that Rendo just got a way bigger priority from the looks of it...

That's not new. Mac users have been posting about this for months. I'm certain the powers that be are fully aware.

Pretty sure they're already aware of it... but it's something that will likely be a far higher priority.

Collapsing Hierarchy: YES!

I like the way CorelDraw handles grouping functions. You can gray out objects you don't want to deal with. There's a sidebar menu with multiple dots, one for view, one for lock, one for print. You can expand or compress what's under the sidebar menus.

For the collapsing hierarchy, not just the universe collapsed, but all the individual figures and parented props. Also when you hide the figures on the hierarchy and show them again they stay collapsed and we don't have to collapse them again.

RedPhantom posted at 4:46PM Sat, 03 August 2019 - #4358629

For the collapsing hierarchy, not just the universe collapsed, but all the individual figures and parented props. Also when you hide the figures on the hierarchy and show them again they stay collapsed and we don't have to collapse them again.

I'm actually kind of flexible on this one. I want a default collapsed hierarchy. Or a master hierarchy collapse for every thing in the scene and individually.

EClark1894 posted at 5:06PM Sat, 03 August 2019 - #4358653

RedPhantom posted at 4:46PM Sat, 03 August 2019 - #4358629

For the collapsing hierarchy, not just the universe collapsed, but all the individual figures and parented props. Also when you hide the figures on the hierarchy and show them again they stay collapsed and we don't have to collapse them again.

I'm actually kind of flexible on this one. I want a default collapsed hierarchy. Or a master hierarchy collapse for every thing in the scene and individually.

I'd like a way to collapse everything or individuals. Currently, we can collapse everything in once click by clicking on the collapsing universe. But that's not very useful. If you uncollapse it, you have everything else still uncollapsed. I'd like the one click to collapse everything but the universe so I can still see my list of figures and yes, I want to be able to uncollapse individuals too.

If I were Renderosity, I'd make this one of the top requests to get done. In fact, when I get a chance, I'm going to go back through some posts and see what the top 10 requests are on the wishlist.

With other hierarchy (un)collapses, holding down an alt/option key would apply to the underlying hierarchy, rather than just one level collapse, so an Option-collapse on the Universe, then an unoptioned Expand click on the Universe should expand with everything below still collapsed. Two clicks might be acceptable.

The other possibility is that a control click on an actor in the hierarchy editor brings up a pop-up menu, which could have expand/collapse options added to it.

Animation layers have never been fully utilized within Poser. It's nice that you can create them, but it would be far better if you could create animation sequences on layers and set them to loop, or drag them around the timeline like clips in after effects.

Poser desperately needs a glow/lightbloom effect, too. This falls once again under the heading of "Why can Source FilmMaker do this but Poser can't?"

Additionally, I would like to see the following controls added to the image and movie texture shader components: Flip Horizontal, Flip Vertical, Invert, Rotate (by degrees)

cobalt posted at 4:46AM Mon, 05 August 2019 - #4358742

Animation layers have never been fully utilized within Poser. It's nice that you can create them, but it would be far better if you could create animation sequences on layers and set them to loop, or drag them around the timeline like clips in after effects.

Poser desperately needs a glow/lightbloom effect, too. This falls once again under the heading of "Why can Source FilmMaker do this but Poser can't?"

Additionally, I would like to see the following controls added to the image and movie texture shader components: Flip Horizontal, Flip Vertical, Invert, Rotate (by degrees)

Seriously, this needs to stop. It's okay to wish that certain features existed in Poser that aren't there now, but we've got to stop wishing that Poser can do everything any other app can do. The answer is quite simple. If you need something done that Poser doesn't do, make that app a part of your tool workflow. Otherwise, Poser will become prohibitively expensive. I remember when I first got into Poser, there were other apps that were more feature robust, like Maya, Lightwave, and 3DS Max. Lightwave, the most popular, was also the most expensive. A thousand dollars, if IRC. Even today, Maya is basically a subscription service. $195 a year, or 4 years for $4000 dollars.

Here's a video I found on Youtube about what happened to Lightwave. I think there's lesson in there somewhere. What Killed Lightwave?

EClark1894 posted at 10:46AM Mon, 05 August 2019 - #4358761

Seriously, this needs to stop.

The updates I suggested are already available in competing programs.

Poser is badly outdated by modern standards. If it is going to have any chance of surviving, it needs to have the ability to compete against those other programs.

Adding the features that are now considered a universal standard is not a radical idea.

As for Poser becoming "more expensive" - some of those competing programs are being given away for free, because the companies that released them are generating their money through them by other means. DAZ sells models for DAZ Studio, Source FilmMaker is essentially an add-on to Steam's gaming platform. I would suggest that Poser should follow that model, and also be provided to users for free, with the understanding that by providing Poser as a free platform, there will be more of a market for add-on content through Renderosity's sales area.

There is also blender, which again, is free.

cobalt posted at 1:11PM Mon, 05 August 2019 - #4358786

EClark1894 posted at 10:46AM Mon, 05 August 2019 - #4358761

Seriously, this needs to stop.

The updates I suggested are already available in competing programs.

Poser is badly outdated by modern standards. If it is going to have any chance of surviving, it needs to have the ability to compete against those other programs.

Adding the features that are now considered a universal standard is not a radical idea.

As for Poser becoming "more expensive" - some of those competing programs are being given away for free, because the companies that released them are generating their money through them by other means. DAZ sells models for DAZ Studio, Source FilmMaker is essentially an add-on to Steam's gaming platform. I would suggest that Poser should follow that model, and also be provided to users for free, with the understanding that by providing Poser as a free platform, there will be more of a market for add-on content through Renderosity's sales area.

There is also blender, which again, is free.

There it is again. This weird belief that Renderosity paid lots of money to buy Poser just so it can update it and give it away for free.

Well, it is a wish list.

Coming from someone with no knowledge about the dificulties of making such a thing happen: Maybe a free "Poser debut" that people can only use to load library items, change the pose around a little and render? And then the paid version with all the content creation and advanced stuff. This could maybe (and again, my lack of knowledge of this business means that I'm just conjecturating here) bring in more users enough that they'll be teased into buying content, and some of them will be interested in creating stuff and would buy the actual Poser.

But yeah, thinking that Rendo bought Poser just to make it free is wishful thinking.

So, okay... which "other programs", specifically?

Poser's only direct competition right now is pretty much DAZ Studio and iClone... at least for software that costs less than $500 or so, and doesn't require a zillion plugins.**

There's a couple of other suites that come in between $500 and $1000, and after that, you'd better check your credit limits.

Not saying Poser should stand pat, but seriously? Trying to reach about and cover every conceivable base will destroy the application's efficiency, usefulness, and UI. If Poser can do all that DAZ Studio can do and maybe a bit more, then it's ahead of the game.

** I'm sure there are probably others, but they're likely too obscure, too specific/platform-dependent, or don't carry the same feature set.

Penguinisto posted at 6:19PM Mon, 05 August 2019 - #4358803

So, okay... which "other programs", specifically?

Poser's only direct competition right now is pretty much DAZ Studio and iClone... at least for software that costs less than $500 or so, and doesn't require a zillion plugins.**

There's a couple of other suites that come in between $500 and $1000, and after that, you'd better check your credit limits.

Not saying Poser should stand pat, but seriously? Trying to reach about and cover every conceivable base will destroy the application's efficiency, usefulness, and UI. If Poser can do all that DAZ Studio can do and maybe a bit more, then it's ahead of the game.

** I'm sure there are probably others, but they're likely too obscure, too specific/platform-dependent, or don't carry the same feature set.

Actually, the way I see it is that Studio can do everything that Poser can do. Yes, it can probably do it better. It has learned from Poser's missteps. Now, admittedly, I don't really use Studio, so I only have a passing familiarity with it, but basically what does Studio really do that Poser can't? And what it can do, it took a little time to catch up to.

That's the thing... we're both speaking in partial ignorance, since I haven't gotten around to getting a new copy of Poser, so I'm going off of what I've read here and on featuresets/spec sheets. (seriously - I still have 7, and I've not bothered to re-install it yet, preferring to just jump into the latest when I get the budget (and a way bigger hard disk) for it.)

As far as feature comparisons? It gets murky in places (Fitting Room versus Auto-Fit, not sure what parallel Poser has to Smoothing/Collision-Detection, etc.) but otherwise, they're about even, each in their own way. DS does have more tendrils and often outright plugins out to other applications and render engines (e.g. Octane, etc), but that's mostly workflow and convenience stuff since from the looks of it everybody can import/export FBX.

The more I look into iClone, the more I see it lacking (though in some aspects, having a Maya-ready rigged Poser/DAZ figure with little-to-no-effort would be hella cool, should I ever get the urge to use a top-end render engine... though I could use Octane w/ DS right now, if I ever felt like coughing up $500 or so for the stupid plugin from OTOY. Anyrate, I'm rambling off-topic here... :) )

Just browsing by to mention that an Octane plugin for Poser exists. I'm using it exclusively. Never got around to properly trying Superfly.

EClark1894 posted at 1:37PM Tue, 06 August 2019 - #4358761

cobalt posted at 4:46AM Mon, 05 August 2019 - #4358742

Animation layers have never been fully utilized within Poser. It's nice that you can create them, but it would be far better if you could create animation sequences on layers and set them to loop, or drag them around the timeline like clips in after effects.

Poser desperately needs a glow/lightbloom effect, too. This falls once again under the heading of "Why can Source FilmMaker do this but Poser can't?"

Additionally, I would like to see the following controls added to the image and movie texture shader components: Flip Horizontal, Flip Vertical, Invert, Rotate (by degrees)

Seriously, this needs to stop. It's okay to wish that certain features existed in Poser that aren't there now, but we've got to stop wishing that Poser can do everything any other app can do. The answer is quite simple. If you need something done that Poser doesn't do, make that app a part of your tool workflow. Otherwise, Poser will become prohibitively expensive. I remember when I first got into Poser, there were other apps that were more feature robust, like Maya, Lightwave, and 3DS Max. Lightwave, the most popular, was also the most expensive. A thousand dollars, if IRC. Even today, Maya is basically a subscription service. $195 a year, or 4 years for $4000 dollars.

Here's a video I found on Youtube about what happened to Lightwave. I think there's lesson in there somewhere. What Killed Lightwave?

OK, I knew I shouldn't look at the Poser forum, especially this thread, but curiosity got the better of me, and now I just have to say something. Sorry in advance for interrupting everyone's bliss.

Interesting that you post a link to a video that highlights what you seem to be doing here. I think it's also interesting that throughout most of the video, you could substitute "Poser" for "Lightwave", and it fits amazingly well.

Before I go any further though, I just wanted to mention that the features Cobalt mentioned aren't asking for the sun, but just asking for what other 3D software already has that she feels makes her life better. Also, I just have to add a minor correction (probably just a typo on your part?), Lightwave was not the most expensive, and in fact among the big names (at the time it's popularity started to wane), it was the cheapest. Making it's demise even more instructive.

Now for a few direct quotes from the video you linked:

"Lightwave became irrelevant due to an inability to change, a loss of key talent, and an actively hostile user community"

Maybe from where you, and other Poser faithful are sitting, this doesn't sound like what has happened to Poser. But for those who have moved on, and especially for those who have asked for Poser to have features and content available in DS also in Poser, it probably sounds quite familiar!

"There was incredible resistance to change in the Lightwave community."

Does this sound familiar? Even though some of the remaining faithful say poser needs to move forward, when someone posts about features they would like to see in Poser to help it compete with the competition (yes, DS/Iray has bloom), they get told to "stop it". Really????

"The final nail in the coffin of Lightwave was the user community, as previously stated, the users helped to retard the development of Lightwave at a crucial time, as many users left for other platforms. The only ones on the forums were the Lightwave hipsters. If you didn't like the way Lightwave was set up, or you found the software killing bug, the problems was you, never Lightwave."

This seems just like here (and the now defunct SM Poser forum), the Lightwave Community wasn't interested in knowing why people were leaving. Which is just insane, no business can ever succeed if they don't understand what their customers want. Keep in mind, with Lightwave they were leaving to use more expensive software. However, with Poser, many have left to use free software (though some have moved on to the "Big Boys").

"It became one of the most toxic groups I've ever encountered"

The exact reason I quit the SM Poser forum, and why I quit visiting this forum until Rendo bought Poser. Unfortunately their buying Poser didn't remove the toxic environment. If you really want to know how to improve Poser, and make it attractive for people again, you need to be better than the competition (assuming it remains a "paid for" product). You can't know what the competition does better by sticking your heads in the sand, plugging your ears, and going continually "nanananananana".

OK, now the Poser faithful can flame at will .... like they always do. I'll check back sometime to see if anyone really want's to have a real conversation about what I think Poser needs to become successful again. But my guess is like on the Lightwave forums, the Poser faithful really don't want my opinion, unless it's to say how great Poser is.

Peace out!

EClark1894 posted at 3:05PM Tue, 06 August 2019 - #4358818

Penguinisto posted at 6:19PM Mon, 05 August 2019 - #4358803

So, okay... which "other programs", specifically?

Poser's only direct competition right now is pretty much DAZ Studio and iClone... at least for software that costs less than $500 or so, and doesn't require a zillion plugins.**

There's a couple of other suites that come in between $500 and $1000, and after that, you'd better check your credit limits.

Not saying Poser should stand pat, but seriously? Trying to reach about and cover every conceivable base will destroy the application's efficiency, usefulness, and UI. If Poser can do all that DAZ Studio can do and maybe a bit more, then it's ahead of the game.

** I'm sure there are probably others, but they're likely too obscure, too specific/platform-dependent, or don't carry the same feature set.

Actually, the way I see it is that Studio can do everything that Poser can do. Yes, it can probably do it better. It has learned from Poser's missteps. Now, admittedly, I don't really use Studio, so I only have a passing familiarity with it, but basically what does Studio really do that Poser can't? And what it can do, it took a little time to catch up to.

Sorry, but one more and I'm gone. They are quite close now in terms of "features", and DS has finally caught up with integrated dynamic cloth that the user(s) can create (although there has been a script available here for years that let users create cloth for Optitex, and of course the VWD plugin). DS has also, sort-of, almost caught up with dynamic strand based hair. Any user can create and style strand based hair, but dynamic hair can only be created by DAZ PA's. Also, I think Posers morph brush is much better than the dform tool in DS (though the integration of DS and Hexagon give a free/cheap option for quick corrective morphs). Posers response to AutoFit, the Fitting Room, isn't quite as seamless and easy to use, though it may be easier for power users to get more out of it (I say Posers response, because it came out after Autofit, it may have been on the design table first, but it looked more like a response to Autofit to the general public).

Posers response to Iray is Superfly, and IMHO it really doesn't seem to really compete (this is coming from someone who doesn't own P11, so please correct me if I'm way off here). From what I gather, it doesn't have all of the features of cycles (which is a great render engine), requires a bit of hoop jumping too use HDRI's, and from images I've seen (with the exception of a handful of artists) the output really doesn't compete with Iray. IMHO, so far, Superfly has been a huge miss-step by Posers former owners. Bottom line, a software like Poser will be initially judged by the quality of it's output. If there are only a handful of users that are producing "Oh WOW" output that is as good as, or better than the competition, your first thought is that it must be really difficult to get images that compete with the competition. Now this may be a 100% wrong impression, but from viewing the galleries, that is the impression I get. I would expect Superfly to easily produce images as good as, or better than the images I've created in DS. If this were true, I would expect to see many more awesome images posted in the galleries. True, there are users that will never be able to produce awesome images unless we get a make art button, but, the Poser galleries seem to have a disproportionate number of almost P4 quality images to awesome images. True, there are a lot of uninspiring images in the DS galleries, but there are also a lot of really amazing images. Objectively, someone making the decision to go with DS or Poser (not really knowing anything about either one), with pick which one?? So while they are more or less equivalent in terms of features, the one with a greater number of awesome images will probably attract more new users.

So now, Poser has (maybe) a new flagship figure, Renderosity needs to make that figure as attractive to new (and possible old) users as possible (awesome images made by average users), and make the use of that figure as painless as possible for the end user (and as easy as possibly for Vendors to create for).

OK, off the soapbox and back into the shadows.

DustRider posted at 6:30PM Tue, 06 August 2019 - #4358861

OK, I knew I shouldn't look at the Poser forum, especially this thread, but curiosity got the better of me...

Sucker. ;)

Interesting that you post a link to a video that highlights what you seem to be doing here. I think it's also interesting that throughout most of the video, you could substitute "Poser" for "Lightwave", and it fits amazingly well.

This has been the case for what, 10 years now? It's gotten (a little) better of late, but likely because forum traffic is only what, 1/10th what it used to be in its heyday? Could also be because Poser ain't the end-all/be-all anymore, either (which IMHO is a good thing.)

Before I go any further though, I just wanted to mention that the features Cobalt mentioned aren't asking for the sun, but just asking for what other 3D software already has that she feels makes her life better.

I can grok that - though Devil's Advocate, even asking for a spotlight (forget the sun) might be a bit much, given what Rendo bought after (let's face it) outright neglect for years by a company who was more interested in selling binary corpses and zombies than maintaining living software. Rendo has a lot of work to do just to catch things up and get things stable again.

(....and I don't even want to know what it's gonna take to bring some of it up to speed, because Kai Krause deserves Death by BungaBunga, if the Bryce codebase --which I did see first-hand lo so may years ago-- is any indication... Yeah, yeah, Adobe AIR solved all that, blah blah... Liars. I bet that Kai's cold, zombified spaghetti-code-happy worm-ridden hand is still in there, dammit. It'd be almost impossible to retain that UX otherwise.)

Also, I just have to add a minor correction (probably just a typo on your part?), Lightwave was not the most expensive, and in fact among the big names (at the time it's popularity started to wane), it was the cheapest. Making it's demise even more instructive.

True dat. LW was nowhere near Maya's ~$20k pricetag (seriously, when you got a free SGI Workstation from Alias/Wavefront just for buying a Maya suite license...)

The exact reason I quit the SM Poser forum, and why I quit visiting this forum until Rendo bought Poser. Unfortunately their buying Poser didn't remove the toxic environment. If you really want to know how to improve Poser, and make it attractive for people again, you need to be better than the competition (assuming it remains a "paid for" product). You can't know what the competition does better by sticking your heads in the sand, plugging your ears, and going continually "nanananananana".

It'll take time, but I think this is going to calm down after a bit - even if Rendo has to clamp down on it themselves.

Why? Because IMHO this is it. This is Poser's last, best hope for long-term survival. Even though I use DS on the daily (well, almost daily), I don't really want to see Poser die. At least not yet. DS needs the competition. iClone and others like it need the benchmark to shoot for and hopefully blow past. We all need a healthy and competitive market with applications competing for your attention.

Oh - wait now - Poser has the toxic community?

Poser?

Are you sure about that?

Are you suuuure?

Is it not the people who are not Poser users coming into every Poser discussion complaining that Poser is not D|S?

Is it not the people who invade La Femme/PE/whatever threads complaining that they aren't exactly like Genesis?

Is it not the people wanting to demand that Poser includes Genesis support?

Is it not the people wanting to demand that Poser includes features that are owned by Daz3d or other company that would make Poser development a slave to those companies?

Are you 100% sure it's the Poser community that is toxic? When we can't ever discuss the things about out program without someone coming to complain that it doesn't behave like some other program?

Let's see people storm en mass, say, Cinema4d's official forums to complain that C4d doesn't behave exactly like Maya or refuses to spend money to slave itself to Maya features - the community would feel toxic within a month.

This argument sounds like people who see neonazis wanting to kill every person of color, then see antifa willing to punch nazis to protect the people of color, and go "these two are exactly the same violence!"

Honestly, I'm so damn tired of this debacle.

And mind you - I'm not saying that Poser doesn't need to do better.

It absolutely does. I myself have requested a couple of features that were included in previous versions, and will keep requesting several others.

But it's "Poser needs to do X", not "Poser needs to do what Y does".

Okay, Let's try to address this one by one.

DustRider posted at 7:51AM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358861

Interesting that you post a link to a video that highlights what you seem to be doing here. I think it's also interesting that throughout most of the video, you could substitute "Poser" for "Lightwave", and it fits amazingly well.

I didn't plan this post or that video. I just happened to find it while googling for "Lightwave 3D". But yeah, I did find what I considered simularities in the topics.

Before I go any further though, I just wanted to mention that the features Cobalt mentioned aren't asking for the sun, but just asking for what other 3D software already has that she feels makes her life better.

Nothing wrong with her feature wishes. Where she and I parted company was where she was starting to wish Poser could do what some other app was already doing. My advice still stands. instead of wishing Poser would bloat itself even more, make the other app a part of your workflow. I wish I didn't have to go outside of Poser to make UV sets or texture models. It'd be nice if Poser did that, but it doesn't so I use GIMP and Blender as part of my UV workflow. They already do that stuff.

Also, I just have to add a minor correction (probably just a typo on your part?), Lightwave was not the most expensive, and in fact among the big names (at the time it's popularity started to wane), it was the cheapest. Making it's demise even more instructive.

Not a typo. Faulty memory perhaps. Lightwave wasn't cheap to me. Neither was Maya, or 3D Studio. As far as I remember they were all more expensive than Poser when it first came out.

Now for a few direct quotes from the video you linked:

"Lightwave became irrelevant due to an inability to change, a loss of key talent, and an actively hostile user community"

Maybe from where you, and other Poser faithful are sitting, this doesn't sound like what has happened to Poser. But for those who have moved on, and especially for those who have asked for Poser to have features and content available in DS also in Poser, it probably sounds quite familiar!

Can't argue that one. Especially since, again, iirc, Poser actually beat DS to the punch on several features. Btw, and we can argue semantics, but I don't consider a "plug-in" or a "Script / python" to be a true feature of that program. But that's just me, I guess.

"There was incredible resistance to change in the Lightwave community."

Does this sound familiar? Even though some of the remaining faithful say poser needs to move forward, when someone posts about features they would like to see in Poser to help it compete with the competition (yes, DS/Iray has bloom), they get told to "stop it". Really????

I already addressed this one.

"The final nail in the coffin of Lightwave was the user community, as previously stated, the users helped to retard the development of Lightwave at a crucial time, as many users left for other platforms. The only ones on the forums were the Lightwave hipsters. If you didn't like the way Lightwave was set up, or you found the software killing bug, the problems was you, never Lightwave."

This seems just like here (and the now defunct SM Poser forum), the Lightwave Community wasn't interested in knowing why people were leaving. Which is just insane, no business can ever succeed if they don't understand what their customers want. Keep in mind, with Lightwave they were leaving to use more expensive software. However, with Poser, many have left to use free software (though some have moved on to the "Big Boys").

As the video indicates, there were several reasons why Lightwave was losing users. But look, I don't even like McDonald's, but if they started giving out free burgers, yeah, I'd be there. It doesn't mean they're better, just free. I think McDonald's fries suck, but I'd eat that too if it meant getting a free burger.

But here's the thing that no one seems to be getting. If DAZ is losing money on DS, but making money on content, then why cut out Poser? They'd make even more money by making Poser compatible content, wouldn't they? In fact, they've appeared to go after other markets that are even more incompatible than Poser. So, it's not that it can't be done. They just don't want to. Switching to DS was never really in the cards for me anyway, as DS never ran on my Mac, to get Genesis, I would have to load DS on my Mac to get it. But DS wouldn't run on my Mac, so... I tossed the idea of making a Poser compatible model, but was dismissed almost before I wrote it down.

The exact reason I quit the SM Poser forum, and why I quit visiting this forum until Rendo bought Poser. Unfortunately their buying Poser didn't remove the toxic environment. If you really want to know how to improve Poser, and make it attractive for people again, you need to be better than the competition (assuming it remains a "paid for" product). You can't know what the competition does better by sticking your heads in the sand, plugging your ears, and going continually "nanananananana".

OK, now the Poser faithful can flame at will .... like they always do. I'll check back sometime to see if anyone really want's to have a real conversation about what I think Poser needs to become successful again. But my guess is like on the Lightwave forums, the Poser faithful really don't want my opinion, unless it's to say how great Poser is.

Peace out!

Honestly, I don't think you really know what would make Poser better, and the way you keep throwing around that perjorative, "Poser faithful", sounds like you're spoiling for a fight. I won't give it to you, but I will defend my position. But again, that's only MY opinion.

It's everywhere nowadays, this attitude.

Someone tosses a bad take - one that's borderline (or directly) offensive, baits people with these pejorative terms that by themselves are polite but in the context just want to bring someone down, then repeat "it's just my opinion" and "now you can fight like you always do".

It's rulebook passive-agressiveness meant to start a flame war.

Penguinisto posted at 9:54AM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358876

Sucker. ;)

lol ...10-4 that!

Just wanted to say "Howdy ... it's good to see your still around!" Not a lot of us old farts left around here .... though you probably don't remember me, since I'm more of a lurker (you were "here" before me, but I lurked for a long time before joining the fun).

Got to agree with everything else you said, both in your response to me, and your other posts in this thread! Hopefully Rendo gets the picture from their sales what has happened to/with Poser and they aren't in a state of denial. I find it amazing how people continue to blame everything and everyone else for the current situation. I find it particularly troubling that often the vendors are blamed for the situation, and for "following the money". Yet no one ever asks themselves why is there more money for supporting that "other" software and that "other" figure (well I might be wrong here, as so have indicated that it because that other software is free - but that's not why I left). Maybe because someone else understood what their customers wanted? Anyway, take care, I'll pop in every now and then to see how your doing, and hopefully just keep my mouth shut.

Btw, Dustrider,

Just so you know, I harbor no ill will towards you or most other DS users. Because I DO prefer Poser, I also understand your preference for DS. Peace be unto you, my brother. I hope we can still be friends in this 3D community.

EClark1894 posted at 10:24AM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358884

Honestly, I don't think you really know what would make Poser better, and the way you keep throwing around that perjorative, "Poser faithful", sounds like you're spoiling for a fight. I won't give it to you, but I will defend my position. But again, that's only MY opinion.

Yes, I'm sure you don't think I know anything about anything. That's just fine, I'll keep my lack of knowledge to myself (now, if others would only do the same). I'm sure this is how people grow and learn right? "You don't know anything so just keep your mouth shut!" Sounds just like things said in that video you posted. Jeeezzzeee, you crack me up!

Sorry for the Poser faithful thing, if you have a better term for it I would be glad to use it. I need a term that doesn't include the entire user base, as there are many users who seem to continue to use Poser, make/post images, and are quite happy with it (there are some great artists that post in the galleries, Poser as it is seems to fit their needs, but they never seem to use the forums) I don't want to include them as a part of the group I'm talking about. The group I'm talking about are the ones who are ultra sensitive to anyone saying anything bad about Poser, or more importantly, anything good about the competition. You can't compete if you don't know anything about the competition. There is an old saying that goes something like "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer". Well, that's just the opposite of how the Poser forums have operated. So what would be the proper, non-inflammatory name to use for those who want discuss how things need to be better, but only if their preferred scope of views are expressed, and any miss information is left uncorrected?

Sorry for stirring the pot, obviously I'm clueless

EClark1894 posted at 10:53AM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358899

Btw, Dustrider,

Just so you know, I harbor no ill will towards you or most other DS users. Because I DO prefer Poser, I also understand your preference for DS. Peace be unto you, my brother. I hope we can still be friends in this 3D community.

Same back at ya!!!

EClark1894 posted at 12:26PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358884

Can't argue that one. Especially since, again, iirc, Poser actually beat DS to the punch on several features. Btw, and we can argue semantics, but I don't consider a "plug-in" or a "Script / python" to be a true feature of that program. But that's just me, I guess.

Thought I should clarify, because I'm not quite sure what plugins or scripts you're talking about. DS now has integrated dynamic cloth (dForce) that both users and vendors can make dynamic cloth with (not a plugin). DS has integrated strand based hair now that both users and vendors can create/style hair (not a plugin) but dynamic hair creation is limited to DAZ PA's only (using dForce). DS also has an integrated full featured key frame editor and graph editor (not a plugin anymore, apparently they acquired the plugins from GoFigure, and integrated them into DS, with some improvements). Just an FYI, they have also finally address some of the long standing IK issues, and issues with pining (sliding feet).

But here's the thing that no one seems to be getting. If DAZ is losing money on DS, but making money on content, then why cut out Poser? They'd make even more money by making Poser compatible content, wouldn't they? In fact, they've appeared to go after other markets that are even more incompatible than Poser. So, it's not that it can't be done. They just don't want to. Switching to DS was never really in the cards for me anyway, as DS never ran on my Mac, to get Genesis, I would have to load DS on my Mac to get it. But DS wouldn't run on my Mac, so... I tossed the idea of making a Poser compatible model, but was dismissed almost before I wrote it down.

I think if you take the 20,000 ft. executive overview of this, the answer is quite evident. Yes, they could have made a semi functional version of Genesis for Poser. So you need to ask yourself why a business would not do so to ensure a continued revenue stream. The only logical answers I can come up with are 1) the estimated return on investment (ROI) was ether less than the estimated profit from sales, or 2) while there may have been and estimated profit from sales, it was still viewed as a overall potential negative ROI due possible negative impressions from a less than fully functional figure in Poser. Keep in mind, DAZ was at Genesis 3 before they completely dropped support. No doubt by then they felt they had already lost significant numbers of the Poser user base. The problem with Poser is that it doesn't have dual quaternion skinning, and also needs to "break" the figure apart into several vertex groups. These two factors, along with probably a very small Poser only user base at the time of the introduction of Genesis 3, may have made the decision easy. Not enough ROI to make it worth while.

Why work to get Genesis in other markets? Seems to me that is a part of trying to expand the user base beyond markets where it currently resides. Maya has the proper skinning method (dual quaternion) to accept a fully rigged (including JCM and MCM) Genesis 8 figure without any conversion to another skinning method. Plus, much of the heavy lifting was already done by the original script creator, so one would think that DAZ will have very little real investment in this. So, while the ROI is an unknown, the investment is most likely relatively small. The original plugin developer may still be the one doing all the work, with assistance as needed from DAZ, This may also be viewed as a way to understand what hooks into DS need to be created for others to write similar plugins, which may expand the market even more with no additional investment by DAZ (third party importers). Of course this is all speculation, but it makes sense with my limited cranial capacity.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 3:41PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358882

Oh - wait now - Poser has the toxic community?

Poser?

Are you sure about that?

Are you suuuure?

Is it not the people who are not Poser users coming into every Poser discussion complaining that Poser is not D|S?

Is it not the people who invade La Femme/PE/whatever threads complaining that they aren't exactly like Genesis?

Is it not the people wanting to demand that Poser includes Genesis support?

Is it not the people wanting to demand that Poser includes features that are owned by Daz3d or other company that would make Poser development a slave to those companies?

Are you 100% sure it's the Poser community that is toxic? When we can't ever discuss the things about out program without someone coming to complain that it doesn't behave like some other program?

Let's see people storm en mass, say, Cinema4d's official forums to complain that C4d doesn't behave exactly like Maya or refuses to spend money to slave itself to Maya features - the community would feel toxic within a month.

This argument sounds like people who see neonazis wanting to kill every person of color, then see antifa willing to punch nazis to protect the people of color, and go "these two are exactly the same violence!"

Honestly, I'm so damn tired of this debacle.

This! Exactly!

?

DustRider posted at 3:47PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358904

EClark1894 posted at 12:26PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358884

Can't argue that one. Especially since, again, iirc, Poser actually beat DS to the punch on several features. Btw, and we can argue semantics, but I don't consider a "plug-in" or a "Script / python" to be a true feature of that program. But that's just me, I guess.

Thought I should clarify, because I'm not quite sure what plugins or scripts you're talking about. DS now has integrated dynamic cloth (dForce) that both users and vendors can make dynamic cloth with (not a plugin). DS has integrated strand based hair now that both users and vendors can create/style hair (not a plugin) but dynamic hair creation is limited to DAZ PA's only (using dForce). DS also has an integrated full featured key frame editor and graph editor (not a plugin anymore, apparently they acquired the plugins from GoFigure, and integrated them into DS, with some improvements). Just an FYI, they have also finally address some of the long standing IK issues, and issues with pining (sliding feet).

But here's the thing that no one seems to be getting. If DAZ is losing money on DS, but making money on content, then why cut out Poser? They'd make even more money by making Poser compatible content, wouldn't they? In fact, they've appeared to go after other markets that are even more incompatible than Poser. So, it's not that it can't be done. They just don't want to. Switching to DS was never really in the cards for me anyway, as DS never ran on my Mac, to get Genesis, I would have to load DS on my Mac to get it. But DS wouldn't run on my Mac, so... I tossed the idea of making a Poser compatible model, but was dismissed almost before I wrote it down.

I think if you take the 20,000 ft. executive overview of this, the answer is quite evident. Yes, they could have made a semi functional version of Genesis for Poser. So you need to ask yourself why a business would not do so to ensure a continued revenue stream. The only logical answers I can come up with are 1) the estimated return on investment (ROI) was ether less than the estimated profit from sales, or 2) while there may have been and estimated profit from sales, it was still viewed as a overall potential negative ROI due possible negative impressions from a less than fully functional figure in Poser. Keep in mind, DAZ was at Genesis 3 before they completely dropped support. No doubt by then they felt they had already lost significant numbers of the Poser user base. The problem with Poser is that it doesn't have dual quaternion skinning, and also needs to "break" the figure apart into several vertex groups. These two factors, along with probably a very small Poser only user base at the time of the introduction of Genesis 3, may have made the decision easy. Not enough ROI to make it worth while.

Okay, two things.

1. We're not talking about Genesis 3, this was still Genesis 1. Neither DS or Poser had Dual Quaternion skinning at that time and I doubt that DAZ had fully considered their ROI at that point, so I find that hard to swallow. Was it possible to do? Sure and easier to do than DSON apparently. Dawn proves that point.

2. We're way off topic in this thread, so let's call it a draw.

EClark1894 posted at 4:51PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358907

1. We're way off topic in this thread, so let's call it a draw.

Thank you, because I was about to post that this thread is called "New Poser Wishlist" and these discussions coming on every thread about Poser is exactly the reason why we feel the need to go defensive about Poser and make some people feel like that is toxicity.

Ways to go about this request list that are ok:

-I want a glow in Poser!

-I want an easier, better functioning dynamic cloth system in Poser!

Wayst to go about this request list that are making us lose our minds:

-I want Iray in Poser because it has a glow so it has to be Iray!

-I want dForce in Poser!

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 4:18PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358910

EClark1894 posted at 4:51PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358907

1. We're way off topic in this thread, so let's call it a draw.

Thank you, because I was about to post that this thread is called "New Poser Wishlist" and these discussions coming on every thread about Poser is exactly the reason why we feel the need to go defensive about Poser and make some people feel like that is toxicity.

Ways to go about this request list that are ok:

-I want a glow in Poser!

-I want an easier, better functioning dynamic cloth system in Poser!

Wayst to go about this request list that are making us lose our minds:

-I want Iray in Poser because it has a glow so it has to be Iray!

-I want dForce in Poser!

But I need Iray in Poser, so I can make stuff glow. like feet and hands and.....other body parts ?

CHK2033 posted at 5:34PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358911

But I need Iray in Poser, so I can make stuff glow. like feet and hands and.....other body parts ?

In the odd chance that this isn't teasing/bait:

-Ask for a glow feature to be added to Superfly or Firefly. As simple as that.

DustRider posted at 2:29PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358898

Not gonna fisk too much, promise.

And yep - I remember ye.

Hopefully Rendo gets the picture from their sales what has happened to/with Poser and they aren't in a state of denial. I find it amazing how people continue to blame everything and everyone else for the current situation.

You do have to remember - most of the folks in the threads that you (rightfully or no) point the finger at are not Rendo. I've given Bondware and Renderosity a metric ton or three of crap over the years, but they have managed to remain solvent all this time, so I don't go around assuming they're stupid (well, not for the past 10-12 years or so.)

I perfectly understand their motivations for buying Poser, and I actually think it's a smart move on their part. But - they did buy themselves a job.

Once they get things right and stable, this thread of wishlists will (might?) come in handy, so long as the market at large doesn't shift.

I find it particularly troubling that often the vendors are blamed for the situation, and for "following the money".

Vendors gonna vend. Some vendors are mad at that fact. Okay... no skin offa mine.

I did some dredging today through approximately a zillion Vicky 4 freebies... okay, not a zillion, but holy damn enough that I'd never have to buy an item of clothing if Vicky 4 was all I had and the budget sucked. This is something Poser (and LaFemme, etc) are going to have to contend with.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 2:37PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358910

Ways to go about this request list that are ok:

-I want a glow in Poser!

-I want an easier, better functioning dynamic cloth system in Poser!

Wayst to go about this request list that are making us lose our minds:

-I want Iray in Poser because it has a glow so it has to be Iray!

-I want dForce in Poser!

I sincerely hope I don't do that, because I believe I only asked that they overhaul what they got for now. :)

One other bit - don't get too mad at folks for saying "...like in DS", because it's a great shorthand, which avoids too much mis-translation. I promise you that whoever is doing dev on Poser right now not only has a copy or three of DS handy, but that they've been picking it apart as well (assuming the devs have been hired.)

PS: What's so bad about something glowing? Watching what happens when I set emissivity on a surface for the first time was almost akin to seeing a schoolgirl's bare breasts for the first time as a schoolboy (that is, both times made me think "wow - that was a lot easier than I thought!")

Anyrate, you do have to admit that there are a few folks in here who have such a hate and loathing of certain other applications/companies/whatevers that they will happily drive out and shut down any conversation about how to improve the big P, yes?

PS: Y'all need this, I can tell: https://youtu.be/hHW1oY26kxQ

(I keep it running in the background w/ headphones on while I'm working.)

Penguinisto posted at 5:52PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358914

I sincerely hope I don't do that, because I believe I only asked that they overhaul what they got for now. :)

I can't remember for sure, but I don't think you did that. And I do remember agreeing with you on the overhaul thing! :)

I was just mentioning it in general, because those things happen so damn much in Poser discussions. It always gets to a point where some people stop mentioning enhancements they want, and start mentioning things they want Poser to copy from others (or other, singular) instead, that would actually halt Poser development and enslave it to another company and keep it from growing on its own.

And then we get accused of not wanting to let Poser be touched, when we're craving for improvements and features that are lacking.

... I forgot to reply to the other stuff.

Penguinisto posted at 5:57PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358914

One other bit - don't get too mad at folks for saying "...like in DS", because it's a great shorthand, which avoids too much mis-translation. I promise you that whoever is doing dev on Poser right now not only has a copy or three of DS handy, but that they've been picking it apart as well (assuming the devs have been hired.)

I get that, I really do. But one thing is "I want glow like in DS", another is "IT HAS TO BE IRAY BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT DS USES". One thing is "I want characters with broad support like Genesis", another is "POSER IS GOING TO DIE STUPID IF IT DOESN'T WORK WITH GENESIS".

PS: What's so bad about something glowing? Watching what happens when I set emissivity on a surface for the first time was almost akin to seeing a schoolgirl's bare breasts for the first time as a schoolboy (that is, both times made me think "wow - that was a lot easier than I thought!")

I never said anything against glow itself? I used it as an example because it was one of the things I remembered being asked here - I just mean that one doesn't require to switch to Iray to make a thing glow, when it comes to software/render development. (I won't mention the breast thing - for me it was as easy as looking down, but I still like'em)

Anyrate, you do have to admit that there are a few folks in here who have such a hate and loathing of certain other applications/companies/whatevers that they will happily drive out and shut down any conversation about how to improve the big P, yes?

Yes, and I also have a huge feeling that a lot of that hate and loathing comes from being completely unable to talk about this application without someone coming from the drains yelling about that application.

PS: Y'all need this, I can tell: https://youtu.be/hHW1oY26kxQ

(I keep it running in the background w/ headphones on while I'm working.)

Eh, I've tried lo-fi radio, it actually made me annoyed instead. When I want pure melody to work, I tend to pull Keiko Matsui or the OST from Chrono Cross, but usually I prefer songs I can sing aloud along.

iRay in Poser would be nice... a plugin w/ OTOY for Octane would be nicer (but holy shiz it would be expensive!).

Getting Genesis 3+ into Poser is a dead horse nowadays. You'd end up with an abortion of a character at best (just ask anyone who uses the DSON exporter), and by the time you wrestle with it enough to get it workable, it would have been way easier to just export as FBX and let iClone give it a fully-rigged skeleton that can be used nearly everywhere (well, except Poser.)

This kinda leads to a bigger thought... rigging. In the Bad Old Days, Poser's insistence on joints made sense, mostly, because it was proudly a hobbyist application suite that pros used on the down-low when the timelines/budgets got too tight. But, well... I'm hoping they abandoned it by now. I'll find out later, though. I can bitch about it at my leisure given the zillion export options.

I prefer songs I can sing aloud along.

Oh, that would drive me nuts, especially if I'm eyeball-deep in wrangling, well, anything in Angular (because Java sucks, that's why). Also makes it easier to keep it playing low in the background when I'm chatting w/ folks in India as well - most times the accents are fairly easy (esp. by now), but some of the gents from the more rural parts of Northern India (which the Hyderabad office makes rather plentiful) can be damned hard to follow along - especially since we meet at late-o-clock IST, but it's still only coffee-barely-made-o-clock (5:00am local) here in PDT.

I think iRay in Poser would be a waste, as it's graphics card-specific. And Poser already has (half) included another renderer that's excellent and keeps being further developed.

And yes about Genesis, but so many people don't seem to understand that - it's authoral tech that gets constantly changed in its many iterations, it would render Poser forever chasing at the back of DS. And spending so many (development) resources just to be able to tag behind. No thanks.

I'm not sure what you mean about joints?

On the songs - I probably blame it on my ADHD as I do with most of my weird stuff lately. I need to have at least three of my senses active at a time or my mind travels to Jupiter and back and then I find myself staring at the screen unproductively for half an hour. (That's also probably why I gave up on any programming back when I learned plain HTML.)

I honestly dont see what the big deal is with iRay. I've been working with a vendor here in taking her Studio-specific texture packages and rebuilding them to work in Poser, and I really cannot see a difference.

But... as for something I'd like to see in 12? Two things:

(1) Address the damn memory leak that has plagued this program almost from Day One.

and

(2) Find out why the program will suddenly quit when I make a change in the external RTs and then try to access the texture room. SM's people could not figure out why it happened. Maybe this team will.

As for the rest — a slightly clearer-in-intent Cloth room would be nice. I have no idea what some of those instructions are, as I never use them and still can get good results. A better walk system for third-party characters. And a working cancel command for Wardrobe Wizard would be fabulous.

Personally, the only thing iRay seems to have that Superfly doesn't is micromesh displacement - a feature requested here to exhaustion, that's been included into Blender Cycles already. I have no idea how iRay materials are built, so I can't speak for ease - Cycles materials are pretty easy, and Superfly also takes regular Poser materials and Physical Surface.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 7:02PM Wed, 07 August 2019 - #4358919

I think iRay in Poser would be a waste, as it's graphics card-specific. And Poser already has (half) included another renderer that's excellent and keeps being further developed.

Never said to replace one with another; that's just crazy-talk. ;)

But thinking deeper, it's not really a question of replacing one render engine with another - the idea is to write plugins that take advantage of other render engines, or better yet, expose enough API so that vendors can write plugins that make using a different render engine painless.

Now obviously some bits aren't going to be easy to automate fully (guessing that shader/material compatibility with the destination engine would be the really big bugaboo), but partial automation should be possible.

And yes about Genesis, but so many people don't seem to understand that - it's authoral tech that gets constantly changed in its many iterations, it would render Poser forever chasing at the back of DS. And spending so many (development) resources just to be able to tag behind. No thanks.

That's another (and quite valid) consideration as well. While there is a lot to be said about including enough import compatibility to attract users of competing product who happen to have a ton of the stuff (you-know-what does a lot of Poser figure compatibility as a matter of course for this very reason), sometimes you just gotta forego it if the cost/is too high or the ROI is too low.

SeanMartin posted at 5:37AM Thu, 08 August 2019 - #4358921

I honestly dont see what the big deal is with iRay. I've been working with a vendor here in taking her Studio-specific texture packages and rebuilding them to work in Poser, and I really cannot see a difference.

Exactly. I texture in Substance. It's internal render engine is iRay. Every texture I paint, I inspect and correct under iRay. I take the maps from Substance and use them in Poser with no change and the results are identical in Poser using Superfly to the iRay render in Substance. I've shown this in the past. Micropoly displacement in Superfly would be useful though.

Lots of knowledge and users were on the SM site. The "make it work like I want" people were still here or at another board. Life was good and people taught, learned, and were courteous for the most part. Return to Rendo and the F.U.D. still flies forth from the same few we all left in order to have reasonable and informative discussions. Those that claim not to know of what they speak, at least not with any authority on the subject; are as usual succeeding in driving away eyeballs and providing nothing of import to this discussion.

I would like collapsible hierarchy trees and micropoly displacement.

I fully admit that I helped contribute to this off topic debate. In fact, I'll go further and say that I started it, but before we move on to another page, can we PLEASE get back to what features you'd like to see or added to Poser? I will add one caveat, though, please no more Poser cloning. If your feature exists in another program, maybe you can add it to your toolbox work flow. This isn't meant to be a feature comparison list.

EClark1894 posted at 6:25AM Thu, 08 August 2019 - #4358932

I fully admit that I helped contribute to this off topic debate. In fact, I'll go further and say that I started it, but before we move on to another page, can we PLEASE get back to what features you'd like to see or added to Poser? I will add one caveat, though, please no more Poser cloning. If your feature exists in another program, maybe you can add it to your toolbox work flow. This isn't meant to be a feature comparison list.

Fair enough - here's the two that I've mentioned, summarized:

1. Get the codebase stable and overhauled. No better time to do it. Top priority - f*$k everything and everyone else's demands until you get this done.

2. Expose, fully document, and open up as much of an API as you possibly can (this also means bringing Python up to something made in this century, please.) Doing this lets plugin writers (hey vendors - that means you!) and customers do three gigantic things that no dev team can possibly do:

• expand Poser in ways that the market anticipates, and not according to some laundry list coughed up by MBAs.
• provides a lot of additional heavy-lifting for adding features, and
• provides indisputable real-world evidence-based guidance for future development (the evidence being sales numbers.) This also means that Rendo can buy the best plugins outright and incorporate them into future versions, which in turn encourages more third-party development.

Fair enough?

Penguinisto posted at 2:22PM Thu, 08 August 2019 - #4358942

Fair enough - here's the two that I've mentioned, summarized:

1. Get the codebase stable and overhauled. No better time to do it. Top priority - f*$k everything and everyone else's demands until you get this done.

2. Expose, fully document, and open up as much of an API as you possibly can (this also means bringing Python up to something made in this century, please.) Doing this lets plugin writers (hey vendors - that means you!) and customers do three gigantic things that no dev team can possibly do:

• expand Poser in ways that the market anticipates, and not according to some laundry list coughed up by MBAs.
• provides a lot of additional heavy-lifting for adding features, and
• provides indisputable real-world evidence-based guidance for future development (the evidence being sales numbers.) This also means that Rendo can buy the best plugins outright and incorporate them into future versions, which in turn encourages more third-party development.

Fair enough?

Fair enough. In fact, I went through my Poser 11 copy, and I think Poser should add several of the Python scripts included with Poser by some vendors should actually be made regular features of Poser. I often forget those scripts are even there.

They include:

1. Delete all lights in scene. (You should be able to at least turn them off and on.)

2. Drop all actors/ figures to the floor. (I know what you're going to say, it's already there, but that only works on one figure/ prop at a time. (I'd also like to change "floor" to "surface" so a plant or plate could drop on top of a table.)

3. Gravity. (Speaks for itself.)

4. Compress and uncompress Poser files. (For the longest time, I didn't even know this was in there.)

5. Enlarge the Raytrace Preview window.

6. Get rid of the Face Room.

7. Get rid of "Figure Height" in menu selection. (This is a holdover from the early days of Poser. Doesn't even work on today's figures).

8. Import/Export to Blender. (Personal preference. Hopefully will keep Cycles material imports intact.)

EClark1894 posted at 2:43PM Thu, 08 August 2019 - #4358963

Penguinisto posted at 2:22PM Thu, 08 August 2019 - #4358942

Fair enough - here's the two that I've mentioned, summarized:

1. Get the codebase stable and overhauled. No better time to do it. Top priority - f*$k everything and everyone else's demands until you get this done.

2. Expose, fully document, and open up as much of an API as you possibly can (this also means bringing Python up to something made in this century, please.) Doing this lets plugin writers (hey vendors - that means you!) and customers do three gigantic things that no dev team can possibly do:

• expand Poser in ways that the market anticipates, and not according to some laundry list coughed up by MBAs.
• provides a lot of additional heavy-lifting for adding features, and
• provides indisputable real-world evidence-based guidance for future development (the evidence being sales numbers.) This also means that Rendo can buy the best plugins outright and incorporate them into future versions, which in turn encourages more third-party development.

Fair enough?

Fair enough. In fact, I went through my Poser 11 copy, and I think Poser should add several of the Python scripts included with Poser by some vendors should actually be made regular features of Poser. I often forget those scripts are even there.

They include:

1. Delete all lights in scene. (You should be able to at least turn them off and on.)

2. Drop all actors/ figures to the floor. (I know what you're going to say, it's already there, but that only works on one figure/ prop at a time. (I'd also like to change "floor" to "surface" so a plant or plate could drop on top of a table.)

3. Gravity. (Speaks for itself.)

4. Compress and uncompress Poser files. (For the longest time, I didn't even know this was in there.)

5. Enlarge the Raytrace Preview window.

6. Get rid of the Face Room.

7. Get rid of "Figure Height" in menu selection. (This is a holdover from the early days of Poser. Doesn't even work on today's figures).

8. Import/Export to Blender. (Personal preference. Hopefully will keep Cycles material imports intact.)

I'll add to this:

-"Clamp" the raytrace preview options to avoid it going the full render options, as this just freezes the entire program depending on your settings;

-HD morphs import from Blender.

-On scripts (or external apps) that already exist and I'd like to see incorporated into Poser:

--Most of Netherworks' (Scene Toy Pro, Spawn, Camera Panel Plus, Creators ToyBox specially)

--EZ Dome - but make it work on the scene background for Superfly instead

--Poser Editor