Azath

You still haven't said how users have been disadvantaged, and I'm really glad you were part of the negotiations and know what was on offer. SM owned the product and clearly wanted rid asap. As to the legal situation, well as far as I'm aware the only commitment to keeping poser running was a statement by Nerd on a website. And we know the law is only defined by legislation and the courts. How many poser users could have taken SM to court? The legal costs compared to what they might gain would seem to make this an unwise idea. Trying to organise some sort of class action when the best they could hope to get was the price they paid for poser back? Good luck with that one

And thank you for letting us know that companies are in business for themselves. This applies to every business in the free world. Ford and General Motors are not in the business of building cars, they are in the business of making money

So since you haven't been able to say why it has been bad for me, I'll just make up my own mind based on reality, not paranoid fantasies.

Penguinisto posted at 11:37AM Thu, 02 January 2020 - #4375191

Dale B posted at 5:21PM Wed, 01 January 2020 - #4375160

Hey Peng, Long time no see! Of course I remember Dina; her and Natalia are near the top of my cattle call list just for the Non Vickie looks alone. Add the character morphing of some of the past masters and they work very well. I've probably got most of those figures, although I haven't mined ShareCG for awhile. Had a spate of surgeries for varying health concerns (most having to do with 35 years, 8 hours a day 6 days a week on a concrete sales floor), and horked CG box, so just now getting things straightened out again.

I know the feeling... I'm sitting here with a hernia patch freshly installed and a 3-year-old stent sitting in my chest keeping the artery in front of my heart open. This getting old crap sucks.

Amen to that. Two stents in the main coronary for me, and just came off the blood thinner this past Sept. Add an artificial right knee, a left knee on life support, partially paralyzed left (dominant) hand due to getting the ulnar nerve crushed supporting myself as the knees gave out, and radical prostatectomy and all the lymph nodes taken out of the pelvic floor. And yes, this getting not young crap is indeed the very definition of suckiness.

Apologies for the delay, but the missus was making a fresh batch of kimchi and unless I pitch in and help when she needs a hand, I don't get none of it, so...

An ecosystem is an interactive thing that grows and evolves. No one has the brainpower or the dinero to create such a thing and plop it in front of the world.

True - but you gotta kickstart one somehow... doubly so if you're about to change the entire paradigm from content-on-consignment to master-of-your-own-application...

Agreed on that, and hopefully they will bite the bullet and put a team together for just that purpose.

The P4 compatible market is dying, literally. Solidifying a new base program is a good first step to bringing a new paradigm into play. I just hope they remember that one of Poser' greatest strengths was it interoperability with other programs. Keep that and enhance things with a more capable figure set (and the full family; don't forget the kids, infants and oldsters), they have a good shot. DAZ has gone one way, and thats fine. They need to forge their own path.

Yep. They have a little bit of runway left to figure out where they're going to go, but not a whole lot... so I hope they do figure out what path they're going to make.

The hard part is waiting. If you look at what Poser has, it does have most of the goodies for the still market in place already, which means if they intend to court that market alone, most of the $$ will be going into ads and 'Try us, you'll like us!' types of promotion. There is more than enough stuff out there to hold up Poser as a good animation tool (the first three seasons of RWBY being one example. Yes, it improved a lot when they went fully to Maya in S4, but that doesn't take the shine of what the less complex program did with some python support), but they need to overhaul the UI and add or expose some missing features. Once I get my bloody runtime reassembled (I salvaged most of it, but bloody Win 10 reassigned the texture files into win images and basically destroyed them in the borked update, so 30+ gigs to install and unzip once again) I'll get to play around with the changes they've already made and see how they work and how many issues they might correct.

Azath posted at 1:36PM Thu, 02 January 2020 - #4375266

Nails60

they could of bought the right to develop Poser further in the future just like Sm did from e-frontier Sm made Poser7 as there first release after Poser6 from e-frontier they developed a new release but did not force users to drop Poser 6 , they left it as it was. Same thing Bondware could of done, but there Greed did not let it happen as they wanted the Licences and the Customers all in one package.

The short version would of been, to announce .... we "Bondware" will be the future developers of Poser, stay tuned for a great release of Poser 12 . SM would of dropped support for Poser 11 but leave it running for there customers, Legally they would of been forced to, either by removing the Internet activation, or keep it online.

This is the common method that is used by serious companies , Today and in the Past. What happen now is based on absolute Greed, by misleading customers and users.

You just have been blinded by lies and corruption nothing else

If you truly believe that then why don't you leave? Why stick around and be victimized by their "greed" and misleading statements? Also, from what I'm reading, Bondware would have gotten even a better deal had they waited until SM was ready to pull the plug, and THEN bought Poser.

Out of curiosity, what happened with SM regards Poser? I know they sold it, obviously, but was Poser being put up for sale an insider thing, or did they just announce publicly, that they were selling it off?

Either way, one thing we should all be thankful for is that Bondware bought it and not DAZ. That is not meant as any disrespect to DAZ, but I think that if DAZ had acquired it, it might have ended-up like Bryce and Carrara, which remember, were both from the same stable as Poser at one time, they were all Metacreations products when they got sold off.

So personally, at this moment in time, I am very pleased that Bondware own Poser, not just for strategic reasons either, but because Renderosity have always been the biggest supporter of it. Just feels right that it should end up in their hands. I just hope they make a real splash with it, so very best of luck to them.

EClark1894 are you Josh-S26 ?

Dale B posted at 12:55PM Thu, 02 January 2020 - #4375281

The hard part is waiting. If you look at what Poser has, it does have most of the goodies for the still market in place already, which means if they intend to court that market alone, most of the $$ will be going into ads and 'Try us, you'll like us!' types of promotion.

I'm one of those weirdos that only bothers with stills. I think I did a simple walk-cycle animation once, just to have a neat screensaver... otherwise I don't and have never really done anything with animation. This is kind of why Poser is something I can tinker with and use, and the workflow isn't as big of a concern with me, as long as export and import is useable.

But with that outta the way, I will say that even from the limited strictly-consumer POV I enjoy these days, Bondware had better be careful as to how long that waiting happens... they should get in there, take their time, and overhaul the entire thing (I've said as much numerous times before), but, well, tick-tock, campers...

There is more than enough stuff out there to hold up Poser as a good animation tool (the first three seasons of RWBY being one example. Yes, it improved a lot when they went fully to Maya in S4, but that doesn't take the shine of what the less complex program did with some python support), but they need to overhaul the UI and add or expose some missing features.

...and bump the Python version that comes with it to at least 3.x...

Once I get my bloody runtime reassembled (I salvaged most of it, but bloody Win 10 reassigned the texture files into win images and basically destroyed them in the borked update, so 30+ gigs to install and unzip once again) I'll get to play around with the changes they've already made and see how they work and how many issues they might correct.

eep - dude, that's why I keep whole backups on both removable and network disks (well, that and I have multiple 'runtimes', both Poser and DS-oriented.)

Azath posted at 1:04PM Thu, 02 January 2020 - #4375269

All this is actually none of my business, but you folks should be a little more open minded. Open your eyes to see the truth. They don't want what is best for you, they want what is best for them, they will try in any possible way making you believe that it was the best for you.

the beauty of capitalism and OSS combined is that I don't really have to care anymore. Poser goes full-lockdown? I pull it all into DS, and jettison or fix the bits that won't quite work. DS does the same thing? I keep the version I got... forever and running in a VM if needs be, or imported into Blender, or...?

(Extreme example? No sweat - I can pop out a virtual machine in VirtualBox, configure and install Windows 2000 on it, and then install Poser 4 Pro on it if I really had to. I still have the freakin' CDs and keys for both Win2k and Poser Pro... I also have WinXP and pretty much every version of DS' installer from the earliest alphas to, well, now.)

Mind, this is all over an application and content base that is a luxury for idle time, and not something a bit more vital towards living a modern lifestyle like my smartphone, my home, my truck... and ironically enough, all of those can be replaced if needs be.

TL;DR - Bondware and Poser needs their customer base more than their customer base needs Bondware and Poser.

Penguinisto posted at 3:16PM Thu, 02 January 2020 - #4375301

Bondware and Poser needs their customer base more than their customer base needs Bondware and Poser.

Harsh as it sounds, I'd say that's the single most relevant statement in the entire thread.

Azath posted at 6:12PM Thu, 02 January 2020 - #4375269

All this is actually none of my business, but you folks should be a little more open minded. Open your eyes to see the truth. They don't want what is best for you, they want what is best for them, they will try in any possible way making you believe that it was the best for you.

(And such news nobody knows, a company actually wants to make a profit. Wow. None of us knew that. Because we're 12 years old.)

Penguinisto posted at 4:11PM Thu, 02 January 2020 - #4375300

Once I get my bloody runtime reassembled (I salvaged most of it, but bloody Win 10 reassigned the texture files into win images and basically destroyed them in the borked update, so 30+ gigs to install and unzip once again) I'll get to play around with the changes they've already made and see how they work and how many issues they might correct.

eep - dude, that's why I keep whole backups on both removable and network disks (well, that and I have multiple 'runtimes', both Poser and DS-oriented.)

So did I.The backup was on an external USB hub, and was on when a power surge got the hub, which crashed the hard drive head and rendered the drive unreadable. Next go around is gonna be at least 4 backups, with isolation on at least one of them. I might see if it would be less stress to recreate the texture folder and slip it in the runtime backup I did salvage, but since it would require unzipping all that to begin with..... siiiigh.

@Dale B - The solution is to not allow corporate-controlled abuse such as Windows 10 on your computer, because by doing so you agreed to allow Microsoft to do whatever it likes, whenever it likes, and completely without recourse!

What do you expect?

Afrodite-Ohki

nice to see that you agree with me

Retrowave posted at 6:54PM Thu, 02 January 2020 - #4375326

@Dale B - The solution is to not allow corporate-controlled abuse such as Windows 10 on your computer, because by doing so you agreed to allow Microsoft to do whatever it likes, whenever it likes, and completely without recourse!

What do you expect?

If you want or need to use specific programs, you pretty much have no choice. Although I make it a point to do a little registry surgery and port blocking to keep their damnable font security update nonsense under control, as well as using 3rd party firewalls to block the update phone home crapola. Once I get a stable install, I'll take care of it with no help from outside. I got caught in that first round of upgrade clusterfuckery that found so many people 'upgrading' against their wishes. Had a perfectly nice E-mu card and breakout box for the audio, and the two times I managed to get into 10 on the CG box it wouldn't run the software that enabled the sound card to function.

Linux would be nice and free, but the software available is limited. Yes, I know Blender is the swiss army knife of open source, but it still has the most counter intuitive screen/mouse/keyboard shortcut interface in the known cosmos.-Still-. There's also the fact that companies tend to treat Linux installs as exotic or premium product and charge accordingly.

CHK2033 posted at 8:56PM Thu, 02 January 2020 - #4375296

EClark1894 are you Josh-S26 ?

Nope.

@Dale - I hear you, but if you're that bothered about your E-MU, it sounds like you're either a musician wanting to hang on to the software that comes with it, or you're an audio enthusiast. But these days, even the mighty Reaper is available natively for Linux if you're a musician looking for professional music-making software, and the ASUS XONAR ESSENCE STX is Linux compatible if you're an audio lover looking for a professional audiophile-grade sound-card.

I appreciate that there's always something a person wishes would run on Linux that currently doesn't, but when you consider the abuse and misery you have to live under knowing that Microsoft can disrupt your life and invade your privacy whenever it likes, surely it is in a persons best interest to accept that in order to move to Linux, they can expect to put the odd bit of hardware on ebay and replace it with something Linux compatible.

I reckon every Windows and MacOS user who buys a piece of hardware these days, whether it be a motherboard, printer, whatever, should first research and ensure that it can also be used under Linux, and if not, avoid it. That way, as Apple and Microsoft up the abuse even further, you know you have a Linux-ready hardware situation ready for you. First thing I did when buying my laptop, was check for Linux compatibility, cause that's the only OS I'll use now.

I haven't been dictated to by Microsoft or any other government-aided dictator for years now. I don't have to worry whether they will break something I have set up, because the only person who has control of my computer, is me (and that's the way it's gonna stay).

Switching to Linux hasn't limited me in the least, it's impossible for it to do so, because I have complete control of it, and every area of computing I can think of has an Open Source privacy-respecting equivalent available natively for Linux anyway!

You have my sympathy for Microsoft destroying your installation, but you're the only one who can erase that government-aided dictator from your machine - you might as well live in China.

A bit of both, but the E-mu was for the breakout box to do audio recording for the animations I was working on. Still have the card and software, so it may be going into another audio specific system in the future. Sound Blaster isn't the recommended, but at least I know the points of distortion. Currently have a 2 port M-audio with the laptop for portable recording (good enough for foley basics and speech, depending on the mic), and a Behringer 4 port for the office box. Still need to get my foam baffles to cover the echo points, but that is down the road a bit.

All the hardware I get -is- Linux capable; its been years, but the command line doesn't scare me like it does so many. But you have to admit that the development of a shell to run programs not Linux native is spotty at best. I despise the pay to play model as much as most geeks do, but until things change, its either minimize the threat or do without.

@Retrowave

the daz to blender 8 plugin is well featured. but how will you run stable Daz studio on linux?

To be honest Dale, I cannot image why you would have any trouble doing that on Linux. There's no shortage of Linux compatible gear and command-line-free software now, and as you said, you bought Linux compatible hardware anyway. I would just install Ubuntu since it's a popular choice for Linux, and then install WINE on it so that you can run the Windows programs you really need.

I think the trick with Linux if you want it easy-peasy, is to go with the popular stuff like Ubuntu and treat it to some WINE

My own way is to use a popular distribution of Linux, and replace everything I can with software that runs natively on Linux anyway. My current favourite s Ubuntu MATE, I never even bothered installing WINE on it, had no need, everything I really need is available on Linux now anyway, but for any that aren't (Poser for example), well, I'll just install WINE so that they run, no problem.

Anyway, hope you get it sorted, but remember that continuing on the route that got you into this mess, cannot be the correct one.

@Wolf - Haven't considered that. I'm assuming DAZ Studio will at least run under WINE, but if not, no, I won't be buying the plugin, it would be pointless. Not the end of the world, there's more than one way to generate figures quickly in Blender, but I am interested in knowing whether or not DAZ Studio runs on Linux under WINE.

If not, that's actually a point in Bondware's favour, cause they were good enough to sticky a Linux thread on this very forum, showing that Poser does run on Linux. So that's cool, question is though, who out of Bondware, DAZ, and Reallusion, will be the first to go native Linux. I had a lengthy discussion with Roxie about this very topic just yesterday. She seems very positive that Bondware will be the first of the three to go native Linux, but for reasons she said she cannot divulge.

I wouldn't read too much into that though, she does talk a lot of ... sometimes

Retrowave posted at 2:39PM Fri, 03 January 2020 - #4375394

So that's cool, question is though, who out of Bondware, DAZ, and Reallusion, will be the first to go native Linux.

I worked to try and get DS to make a *nix port in 2005... after all, it was written in C++ and Qt, both of which are very cozy in Linux. 3Delight had a Linux port. This would have taken minimal effort. I was all ready to give it a go on my own time, until this question came up...

"Which distro?"

That one stumped me. Cold. You see, at the time, there was no king-of-the-distros. RedHat (pre-Fedora), SuSE, a very embryonic Ubuntu, Mandriva (formerly known as Mandrake)... except for Ubuntu at the time, these were all strong distributions and they all had adherants. Problem is, there was only time to shoot for one and be effective about it.

Today is a vastly different story; almost everyone uses a debian-based distro (Ubuntu, Mint, etc), which would make it drop-easy to write a port for. Problem solved, right?

But (you knew there was a 'but', right?) Now we got GPU acceleration. nVidia has binary blob GPU-activating modules for most distros, but do they have CUDA-compliant modules? Wait - because now RDS is rumbling down the pike, and I bet everyone in the render-engine business is writing for that.

Long story short, even though the ugliest questions have likely been answered, the problems are not really technical. Poser and DS' codebases can easily compile and run in Linux without much effort (and it's not like the bad old days of PPC and endian issues -- or worse, Carbon and fat binaries (puke!) -- like you had with early-days OSX...)

No, it's the stupid keeping-up-with-the-joneses crap that every other OS has to deal with. This will mean at least 1 more codemonkey hired and kept on just to keep perfect pace with all that. Now... is the potential extra sales and increase in userbase worth the price of a midrange developer salary (plus benefits)? Only Bondware, DAZ, and Reallusion can answer that one, each on their own.

The Daz PA's would have to use a developmental build on Linux to test thier products...

Don't look for any Linux native version of Daz studio to appear soon.

@Penguinisto - Sounds like the typical scenario any Linux dev would face though. As long as a developer gets their program working on the LTS release of a large distro such as Ubuntu, the rest will see to itself. I'm not a dev, so don't know the technicalities, but you know what I mean, to target a popular LTS release like Ubuntu would be the way to go, they could never pick at random.

To be honest, I'm not that bothered about DAZ Studio being available on Linux anyway (I only wanted it for the plugin). Unfortunately, choosing iRay means that DAZ needlessly chose the proprietary route in iRay. That was a big mistake on their part, because it means they themselves will be just as inconvenienced by it as their non-nVidia customers. At least with Poser, someone in charge had the sense to base Super-Fly on Cycles. That means both now and further down the line, Posers devs and users will never find themselves having to jump through hoops to satisfy a proprietary entity such as nVidia. It means the Poser devs can concentrate on developing Poser instead of appeasing nVidia when they decide to retire or break iRay.

@Wolf - So does it work? I could check myself but thought you would let me know. I have much trust in my friend the wolf to be up to date on the situation! Remember though (and this is quite a biggie), it's not as if DAZ Studio would need to be fully functional on Linux anyway. As long as under WINE, it's capable of loading up and exporting the figure using the plugin, that pipeline would work regardless, cause it only needs exporting once and I would have the Blender-ready figure sat on my hard drive, ready for use.

I suppose, if I really wanted to, I could even install DAZ Studio on Windows 7, just to get the figure exported, but I'd rather it just worked under WINE for such a simple use scenario.

Actually, how on earth do they work the licence to use the Cycles code anyway? I'm pleased that it's possible but I've scratched my head over it a few times now. I'm just assuming that they link to the code internally somehow, but they still have to bundle it with Poser to do that, don't they?

That's the part that puzzles me, but whatever the method used, it would likely be true of EEVEE as well, to get a realtime viewport.

Retrovave,

there are different methods used, you can open your Exe in notepad ++ search for "nalpeiron" then you will know if this method is used. It was the severs SM was using. They can perform many things such as Analytics, and probably also things you do not really want to know." Big Brother is Watching You " The Licence activation has normally a time frame in the file that has been generated, it also contacts the licence server for validation on startup. the licence server can also contact registered licences and shut these down. You Can check up there site to find out more about the methods used.

Wolf - So does it work? I could check myself but thought you would let me know. I have much trust in my friend the wolf to be up to date on the situation! Remember though (and this is quite a biggie), it's not as if DAZ Studio would need to be >fully functional on Linux <

I am not the person to ask as I have three functioning computers in my animation pipeline

An ancient Intel Mac and Older windows 7 PC and my newest windows 10 PC that is permanently air gapped/wi-fi disabled from the internet.

I own two android smartphones and an android based tablet.

I use Daz studio 4.12 ,Poser pro 2014 ,Lightwave3D 2015,Iclone pro pipeline,Blender 2.81, Natural Motions Endorphin ,MODO 801& Davinci Resolve 16 on windows 10

Over on the old mac, I run an ancient Maxon C4D R11.5 studio with Vray R,enderer Nextlimit Realflow, Adobe CS3 and After Affects CS3(NON subscription versions) Apple final cut pro and even legacy Poser 6

I just turned 56 ,work out regularly, and can still bench press over 320 pounds.

I have ZERO..understand this; ...ZERO!! time to experiment with any alternate OS systems, at this point in my life, for the sake of "fighting" the big corporations.

There is a long running thread ,in the Daz forums somewhere, titled:"Daz studio on Linux" ..or something similar.

Never personally visited the thread, however there might be useful info for you regarding other peoples effort to get it running in linux somehow.

BTW ,That Daz to blender 8 looks really powerful.

However I will stick with solutions that do not lock me into ONE generation of genesis as I still use the older ones for various reasons.

On the matter of using the cycle engine in other programs.

The Blender GPL license requires that any add on to blender must have its source code available under the same GPL license as blender.

This includes Cycles,EEVEE ,all of Blender itself. Smith Micro extracted the cycles code from blender and built a (not very complete) fork of the render engine for poser 11.

realtime view port preview capability is a feature that requires more specific alterations to the core /host program itself.

A task SM chose not to undertake for their own reasons.

No, Blender Cycles has a Apache 2.0 license. Thats a completely different license that allows commercial usage without code sharing.

@Azath - Oh I know about the big brother stuff, it's just one of many reasons why it ain't getting internet access. I wasn't referring to that though. I was just puzzled how SM got Cycles into Poser in a licence-friendly way, and to be honest, I'm even more puzzled now I've seen Wolf's reply!

@Wolf - So are you saying they took the code, edited it, forked it, then bundled it with Poser as part of it's distribution? I was always under the impression that you cannot bundle the code as part of a proprietary product. Blender Game Engine users themselves face that situation when it comes to distributing a game made with the Blender Game Engine, cause the code of the engine itself cannot be closed in any way, it has to be open.

So I'm really puzzled how SM got around that. Surely the same technique would be of benefit to Blender Game Engine games that users would like to protect. It sounds as if you're saying SM have somehow managed to take the open code and bundle it into a closed product. Forking the source and making it available doesn't, as far as I'm aware, remove the restriction of it being included as part of a closed product. I always thought that such measures demand that the whole program using the code, whether as-is or modified, follow the same licence as the code that was used, or "extracted" as you put it. No doubt SM would not have done whatever they did it were not permitted, but I'm absolutely baffled how they did it - lol

Regards DAZtoBlender8, yup, looks awesome. I'll definitely pick it up if I can get DAZ Studio to export under WINE. You still do puzzle me in you fear of it breaking though. That pipeline cannot break, because your current DS, the plugin, and Blender can all be backed up to disk and reinstalled any time you wish. And even if an update introduced a bug, you would still be able to go back to the working version.

@Nagra - Sorry, hadn't seen your post at the time. That makes sense, and I suppose EEVEE would need to be the same then.

EEVEE has the same GPL v3 license as Blender. AFAIK Cycles is the only part of Blender that comes with an Apache 2.0 license. Since EEVEE is based on openGL, i won’t waste my time in 2020 anymore messing with it anyway. OpenGL is practically dead and will be replaced by Vulkan or Metal.

Retrowave, just remember that SM brought Superfly to Poser about three years before 2.8 came out, so Cycles couldn't do a lot of the stuff it does now. Also, Superfly was meant to work with Legacy content.

No, Blender Cycles has a Apache 2.0 license. Thats a completely different license that allows commercial >usage without code sharing.

Correct, however the apache license still allowed for SM to legally fork cycles and sell it as part of a commercial application like Poser 11 , which answers Retrowaves query about how SM was permitted to have cycles in their commercially sold application.

You still do puzzle me in you fear of it breaking though. That pipeline cannot break, because your current DS, the plugin, and Blender can all be backed up to disk and reinstalled any time you wish. And even if an update introduced a bug, you would still be able to go back to the working version.

You are correct that anyone can archive an older blender or Daz studio installer and reinstall it in the future,but certainly you can see the flaw in such an outlook as you will be forced to "freeze your pipeline in time" perhaps even your OS itself, to keep it working and forego powerful new features ,in the latest versions, becuase you know updating will kill that one,(no longer developed), third party plugin,that is the single point of failure in your pipeline

Imagine if you had adopted some awesome third party plugin in Blender 2.4 and Daz studio 3.x

Assuming your OS supported them would,you be willing to still run those older versions today??.

Hauling this back on topic...

Apparently the phone-home thing was put in with Poser GameDev 2014. You're seriously telling me that you cant take it out, even though it annoys the be-jeezuz out of the user base? We've already had one instance where the server went AWOL, and no one could use the program till that went back up. What's going to happen when that same server really goes offline for an extended period of time?

SeanMartin posted at 1:42PM Sat, 04 January 2020 - #4375486

Hauling this back on topic...

Apparently the phone-home thing was put in with Poser GameDev 2014. You're seriously telling me that you cant take it out, even though it annoys the be-jeezuz out of the user base? We've already had one instance where the server went AWOL, and no one could use the program till that went back up. What's going to happen when that same server really goes offline for an extended period of time?

When did that happen? The no one could use the program part.

@Nagra - They use OpenGL for compatibility reasons. I remember in one of those weekly 'Blender Today' livestreams, some discussion to that effect. They mentioned Vulcan as a future option if I recall, but OpenGL was chosen for compatibility. Thr standard cannot "die", because it's open software. The Blender Foundation are free to make use of it for as long as they wish, there is no entity that can take it away, and newer cards need to be backwards compatible with it anyway, so OpenGL will always be valid for any option that requires it.

@Clarkie - Sure, and no problem with what they did. I was just curious how they did it. I wasn't aware Cycles has been given a different licence. Unfortunately though, it does mean that Poser won't be getting EEVEE, which is a serious bummer IMHO. The stuff it would have permitted to happen would have really boosted Poser in the credibility steaks I think. Their only options now (if they wanted a realtime viewport), is to either develop their own realtime PBR renderer, or licence one. But if they licence one then the chances of Poser being used as a free attraction to content purchasers, looks extremely unlikely.

See, thing is, if they had their own motion generation, and it was better than the competition, they could make extra cash through selling an "Export Motion" option. If they had a model like that, it means they attract content purchasers through Poser being free, and those purchasers have to stay inside Poser unless the pay extra for the Export Motion option. That way, the business model thrives on content, but also the sale of the Export ability. They get to do both while being able to pull people in through Poser being free. But without a realtime viewport, the realtime rendering and motion generation features that attract people, are just a dream.

@Wolf - Wouldn't make any difference mate, cause who cares what version you're on? Once you switch to Linux, all that keeping-up with the Joneses bull becomes a thing of the past. And even if you wanted to upgrade something without breaking something from an older install, you just run it right there, in a Virtual Box running Linux on Linux!

You're completely safe from all that worry once you break the umbilical cord with your dictator

Listen to what Ton is getting at in the video attached, cause it applies to the OS situation too, not just Blender. He points out that we won, and we won because we're now up there with the big, rich, and powerful. The "we" who won, are every one of us with the sense to see where this is going, and who understands why it is unstoppable.

So what he's telling you is that with "our" new found power, "they" (the giants about to fall) are getting worried, so much so they're now wanting "us" to join "them". Ton has basically told them, no, we're the winners here so it's time you joined us in our way of doing things. He is absolutely spot-on, and the same is true for Linux-based OS users, they are the winners of the OS situation for the very same reason ...

Reason being the power of Open Source, and the business of freedom that will always be preferred by every person on earth!

CLICK HERE to find out why we won - What I'm talking about starts at 6:30

CHK2033 posted at 3:07PM Sat, 04 January 2020 - #4375490

SeanMartin posted at 1:42PM Sat, 04 January 2020 - #4375486

Hauling this back on topic...

Apparently the phone-home thing was put in with Poser GameDev 2014. You're seriously telling me that you cant take it out, even though it annoys the be-jeezuz out of the user base? We've already had one instance where the server went AWOL, and no one could use the program till that went back up. What's going to happen when that same server really goes offline for an extended period of time?

When did that happen? The no one could use the program part.

The server went down for a while, and during that time, the phone-home thing wasnt working, which stopped any access to the program.

I forgot about that bit in the video "Maya is for old people!" - lol, well said Ton, couldn't have put it better myself

SeanMartin posted at 4:34PM Sat, 04 January 2020 - #4375494

CHK2033 posted at 3:07PM Sat, 04 January 2020 - #4375490

SeanMartin posted at 1:42PM Sat, 04 January 2020 - #4375486

Hauling this back on topic...

Apparently the phone-home thing was put in with Poser GameDev 2014. You're seriously telling me that you cant take it out, even though it annoys the be-jeezuz out of the user base? We've already had one instance where the server went AWOL, and no one could use the program till that went back up. What's going to happen when that same server really goes offline for an extended period of time?

When did that happen? The no one could use the program part.

The server went down for a while, and during that time, the phone-home thing wasnt working, which stopped any access to the program.

So you couldn't use Poser ? is "that system" checking your PC every single time you load Poser, I mean if it does a weekly check as they say and lets say it checked today. if I cannot load poser tomorrow because their system went down (on their end ) tonight,How would poser on my PC know that unless it is calling home in some way every single time I run the program ?

@Wolf - Wouldn't make any difference mate, cause who cares what version you're >on?

I would care what versions I am on. …for the new features.

Sure in the case of Daz Studio yes I can stick with genesis 1,2 because I am a Daz content developer and can support any figure generation I chose indefinately with custom ,one off clothing. including G8

Understand I am all for Blender itself and FOSS in general and very excited about learning 2.81

But I use Alot of other professional software, that I prefer, so going full Linux is nonstarter in my case

And lets not delude ourselves.

serious music & sound production is mission impossible on native linux , you would likely do better with an old amiga box from the 1990's

Managing multiple virtual boxes and WINE etc only adds needless layers of complexity to an already complex endeavour (3D animation& VFX) and forces creative people into the role of system admin/ IT/OS engineer when they should be left free to create with the best available tools they can afford.

Some of us ,and our paying clients would rather we spend our time being productive with our software... not having to re-engineer virtual boxes etc for every project to get only half of the software access we get with a fully supported OS system.

But to each their own.

Wolf, if you want serious sound and music production on Linux, there's REAPER

There's even a Linux build of it for the RPi now, never mind the desktop. Whoever told you there are no serious music production tools available on Linux has no clue what they are talking about. Maybe you should try visiting the forum for Reaper at the link, and drop them a message telling them that Reaper isn't a serious music production tool. Not sure how well it'll go down with them, but I'm guessing you'd either be laughed off the forum quick-like, or find yourself subjected to the swift and deadly blade of Reaper!

I hope you don't find the blade too painful, my friend - LMFAO

Anyway, I'm sinking back into obscurity for a while, at least until they start making reveals about Poser12, so I'll see you bunch of crazies later ... maybe ... possibly ...

Could be awhile then, considering they're chatting up what we can expect in 11.3 next.

It was less time than I thought, I'm either back already or I forgot to slip back into obscurity. Anyway, gotta go now, stuff to do and hardware to sort out and I really don't want distracting with forums. I was determined to start work on an album in 2020 once I have my computer sorted. I decided to return that laptop and build a new desktop PC instead, so once I have that built, I'm jumping back into synths until I have my album done.

Might even release some stock tracks for animators and filmmakers to licence, though to be honest I think I'd be wasting my time, the market is saturated.

Retrowave posted at 2:27PM Sun, 05 January 2020 - #4375564

It was less time than I thought, I'm either back already or I forgot to slip back into obscurity. Anyway, gotta go now, stuff to do and hardware to sort out and I really don't want distracting with forums. I was determined to start work on an album in 2020 once I have my computer sorted. I decided to return that laptop and build a new desktop PC instead, so once I have that built, I'm jumping back into synths until I have my album done.

Might even release some stock tracks for animators and filmmakers to licence, though to be honest I think I'd be wasting my time, the market is saturated.

It depends on what kind of tracks you lay out as to whether that market is saturated or not. And Reaper does look interesting. Just finished building an Ubuntu 18.04.3 USB drive, so I'll play around with it and see how it does on a separate system. If Poser fields a native Linux version, and the Vue rendercows likewise go Linux at a reasonable price point, I'll be more than happy to dual boot the main box and run the rendergarden on Linux. I really don't want to have to pony up for 7 OS installs

Dale B posted at 3:17PM Sun, 05 January 2020 - #4375574

Retrowave posted at 2:27PM Sun, 05 January 2020 - #4375564

It was less time than I thought, I'm either back already or I forgot to slip back into obscurity. Anyway, gotta go now, stuff to do and hardware to sort out and I really don't want distracting with forums. I was determined to start work on an album in 2020 once I have my computer sorted. I decided to return that laptop and build a new desktop PC instead, so once I have that built, I'm jumping back into synths until I have my album done.

Might even release some stock tracks for animators and filmmakers to licence, though to be honest I think I'd be wasting my time, the market is saturated.

It depends on what kind of tracks you lay out as to whether that market is saturated or not. And Reaper does look interesting. Just finished building an Ubuntu 18.04.3 USB drive, so I'll play around with it and see how it does on a separate system. If Poser fields a native Linux version, and the Vue rendercows likewise go Linux at a reasonable price point, I'll be more than happy to dual boot the main box and run the rendergarden on Linux. I really don't want to have to pony up for 7 OS installs

Check your email, I have questions...lol

@Dale - The album will be Retrowave in genre, something I can release on Vinyl, Cassette, and CD. It's a personal project though, it's not a commercial venture, I'd still do it even if it never sold a single copy.

The stock tracks (if I even decide to do them at all) are likely to be in the genres Retrowave, Horror, and Industrial. The problem with stock tracks is that even if you have something unique, the chances of the person who wants them actually finding them, are getting slimmer and slimmer due to the sheer amount of people out there doing it. To make matters worse, we've got all that AI generated music nonsense to contend with now!

Cool to hear you're giving Reaper on Linux a try. Reaper is relatively new to Linux and the builds are still experimental, but it worked fine for me last time I run it on Ubuntu MATE. At least these are native Linux releases they're putting out, and the really cool thing about Reaper is it's the most customisable Pro-Audio Workstation out there on any platform.

Anyway, good luck mate, may the blade be with you, I had my own install looking like a retro mixing console using the "Imperial" theme made by the member White Tie:

Once I get my bloody runtime reassembled (I salvaged most of it, but bloody Win 10 reassigned the texture files into win images and basically destroyed them in the borked update, so 30+ gigs to install and unzip once again) I'll get to play around with the changes they've already made and see how they work and how many issues they might correct.

eep - dude, that's why I keep whole backups on both removable and network disks (well, that and I have multiple 'runtimes', both Poser and DS-oriented.)

I apparently have lucked out. On one of the drives I found multiple backups of old hard drives, and in one of them I found the 58.1 gig runtime backup. This was of course discovered after I have redownloaded the DAZ, Rosity and Rotica zips that remained. Which of course meant incomplete RDNA, PoserPros, Poser Style and numerous other defunct sites content. I am so glad that Hogwarden's P Booost still works on Win7.....

So if things are intact, I get to haul out the scene files I have and rerun some animaton tests with P 11.2 and see what there is to see.

Quite off-topic but I just have to show you all this video: PLEASE CLICK HERE

Did you see the look on Apple's Tim Cook's face when Gervais pointed out the irony of "Apple" making programs about dignity and doing the right thing, while being a company that operate their fucking sweat-shops in China? Fucking hell, that was absolutely classic, this is exactly the sort of thing we need, people with the balls and sense to first of all infiltrate "Establishment", then throw it back in their fucking faces when he's in a position to do as much damage as he possibly can (Golden Globes).

You'll have to excuse the language, but that was absolutely fan-FUCKING-tastic, way to go, Gervais

First of all Blender becomes accepted as Industry Standard, and now this, I'm really loving 2020 already

I thought it was quite good myself and I'm no Gervais fan :)