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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Nov 08 10:28 pm)
Subject: Please upgrade the preview render engine to the full capibilities of OpenGL
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I'm of the same opinion, Poser needs a realtime viewport which should go hand-in-hand with animation improvements. I've been enthusing about it like crazy in Clarkie's request thread, and for bloody good reason.
EEVEE is the best solution I can think of, but I tried a few weeks ago to find out if it was under the same licence as Cycles, therefore allowing incorporation into Poser, but I got sidetracked and still don't know. If EEVEE is not an option though, I desperately hope they will find a way to incorporate an EEVEE-like realtime viewport, and update the animation tools and timeline interface!
Scharmers posted at 2:46PM Wed, 05 February 2020 - #4379166
Semi-realtime usable preview must be in Poser's future if it's going to remain relevant.
You don't need realtime preview, unless it some how a strain for you to hit the refresh button on the Raytrace window.
And yeah, Retrowave, I know, you're in love with EEVEE. Thing is, it won't really speed up animation. Just what it will look like.
Sure, it won't itself speed-up the animation but it's still the ideal environment. This is why I was hoping they would update the animation tools and animation interface along with it, and adopt Shane's figures as the default Male and Female. His figures look really well balanced when it comes to their poly-density to topology ratio, and they're even very nicely topologised.
Like I said in my requests, these things really need to come at once as they go hand-in-hand, but even if we don't get all of those things, the animation side of things is Poser's biggest, most embarrassing weak-spot and still desperately needs updating, even without a realtime renderer, because the figures can still animate in realtime in standard viewport mode, just as long as they're efficiently designed and animation friendly.
Having even a 90 percent accurate realtime preview of your lighting textures and SSS will speed up scene setup Look development and of course the final render
IIRC this animation took about 1.2 seconds per frame and IMHO looks better than firefly,superfly and certainly better than my ancient 10 year old "AR3" engine in Maxon Cinema4D R11.5.?
This talking Daz genesis 2 Female is a straight FBX export from Daz studio (with material adjusments in Blender of course) https://youtu.be/7hSW7H8RVjY
Poser 11.x has FBX export correct? ( I stopped at Pro 2014) Why not try it from poser 11.x??
I predict there is about to be an explosion of independent animated films&web series in 2020 and beyond,Produced by both small teams and single operators using the EEVEE engine to render.?
I Just turned 56 and feel like a Kid with the greatest enthusiasm for what is ahead This is a very exciting time for us animated filmakers.??
raises hand...
Friendly Reminder time, campers.
I get the joys of turning on iRay preview in DS for lots of stuff (including animations), which is hella awesome for stuff like sorting out lighting (direction, color, intensity, etc), and checking to eliminate all the crap that you normally discover the hard way after a zillion render cycles...
BUT (you knew this was coming, right?) This needs to be optional.
As much as I love the raytraced preview stuff, I usually have to turn it off after awhile. My GPU is latched onto a GeForce 1080 GTX w/ 6 GB vRAM... not top-end certainly, but not some hooptie-level ghetto special, either. I think the only time I see it work end-to-end is when my daughter dorks around with all the old NearMe stuff in DS after I did all the import work (because the NM polycounts are looooooow... she got a huge kick out of all the freebies I scrounged for it, BTW.)
I suspect that this will also be the caase with most folks - while yeah, the prosumer-level and above will have the horsepower to run it, not everybody will, so it really should be an option. Maybe do it like you-know-who does, and make it a mode above Texture-Shaded for the viewport?
No comparison between DS So called "Iray preview" And real-time game engine like EEVEE or UE4.
NON RTX Brute force path tracing has no future.. ?.
Working in EEVEE has spoiled me for everything else.
Even my Lightwaves VPR. ???
Retrowave posted at 6:05PM Wed, 05 February 2020 - #4379167
I'm of the same opinion, Poser needs a realtime viewport which should go hand-in-hand with animation improvements. I've been enthusing about it like crazy in Clarkie's request thread, and for bloody good reason.
EEVEE is the best solution I can think of, but I tried a few weeks ago to find out if it was under the same licence as Cycles, therefore allowing incorporation into Poser, but I got sidetracked and still don't know. If EEVEE is not an option though, I desperately hope they will find a way to incorporate an EEVEE-like realtime viewport, and update the animation tools and timeline interface!
Cycles is released under Apache. Unfortunately, eevee is GPL like blender itself. Other options might be the Marmoset Toolbag engine, or an engine with a more workable license like Godot.
wolf359 posted at 8:47PM Wed, 05 February 2020 - #4379199
No comparison between DS So called "Iray preview" And real-time game engine like EEVEE or UE4.
True indeed... but until everyone gets on board with RTX (both Poser and DS are fighting like hell to get it into their next release, I suspect), you do what you gotta do, and I'd been playing with the preview mode for quite awhile now.
I don't think that RTX will help the AMD/Radeon folks too awful much, though (but then neither does iRay, so, umm...)
But yeah, still need that to be an option or you risk driving away a huge chink of the hobbyist crowd, mm'kay? 
@Moogal - Thanks for the heads-up, and actually, I think it was you who mentioned about Cycles having a different licence that got me curious about EEVEE's licence. Bummer to hear that, although good to hear of other possible engines to use, and I really hope the Poser team are looking into such things!
@Wolf - To be honest I'm a bit confused about the whole raytracing discussion that is going on. Pretty damn sure my EEVEE is raytracing, refracting, and even blurred-reflecting and blurred-refracting in realtime on my AMD RX580. I heard that even older AMD cards support realtime raytracing, never mind the new ones.
Like you, I feel really spoiled using EEVEE 
@Pengie - Hey, don't you worry mate, us AMD users are doing just fine. The cores in AMD hardware are designed to excel in the usage of open source technologies such as OpenCL and Vulcan, and my lovely new RX 580 with thousands of processing cores and 8GB of RAM cost less than one hundred and fifty quid, and is making full use of 'em!
AMD actually announced about a month back that backwards compatible GPU-accelerated raytracing is coming to AMD cards this year, designed to harness the power of AMD cores, but also work with nVidia. This is cool to hear cause it means that while it will work on both brands of cards, it will work better on AMD cards due to the design of their cores.
To be honest, I should have a big cheesy grin in my face because of that, but I thought I was already getting realtime raytracing in EEVEE anyway, so I'm completely bloody baffled by what peeps are talking about. If I'm getting reflection and refraction in EEVEE and it is not through realtime raytracing, then what is it called?
And like I said, it's not just reflection and refraction, it's even doing blurred reflection and refraction, and hell, even light bounces, and it's definitely doing it all in realtime! So not only am I puzzled by what peeps on the forum are talking about, I'm puzzled by what AMD are talking about. I know AMD users already have a full-on GPU-accelerated raytracer by installing AMD's own ProRender software, but that's meant for accuracy. So as far as I can see, AMD already have their users covered. We have ProRender for the accurate stuff, and we have EEVEE for the realtime stuff, and I'm tellin' ya mate, EEVEE is blowing my mind on this card!
@Peng Just for clarification you can have a near realtime viewport display without realtime RTX cards for constant raytracing, by using various game engine "cheats"As EEVEE does.
However your software has to have the ability to to make use of those "visual cheats"
For example: the attached image is a Daz genesis female exported as FBX to Lightwave 2015.
The left viewport is the default textured openGL viewport in lightwave 2015 just like we have in Daz studio/Poser etc.
The right viewport has Lightwave 2015's interactive VPR turned on with an HDRI image lighting the scene.
Not rendered!! ...but near realtime feedback for building my scenes and lighting setups
For perspective This is the performance I get over on My little Gateway(Year 2010 ),EC14 travel netbook with a 1.3GHz Intel Pentium Dual Core SU4100 CPU along with an Intel GMA4500MHD graphics, 4GB DDR2 RAM.
A ten year old netbook running a five year old program.?
Now,, is this acceptable final quality for an animation render ??..?
Not really IMHO, .?
but it makes scene building alot faster& Accurate before commiting to final renders.
I do consider the quality from EEVEE over on my main AMD machine acceptable for My personal animation renders and if a Paying client demands Cycles or Radeon they will pay the cost of using a blender supported render farm service Like "Concierge"
Actually NVDIA RTX support in Blender is still "experimental" But You dont need RTX Cards or technically even a GPU to get decent viewport display in 2020.
But You do need a MODERN Software program.?
Nails60 posted at 9:27AM Thu, 06 February 2020 - #4379267
This explains differences but is a year old so maybe some of the improvements in EEVEE might have been implemented
https://cgcookie.com/articles/blender-cycles-vs-eevee-15-limitations-of-real-time-rendering
Cheers Nails, I did see that article a few times now, nicely done. Definitely outdated though, cause that video he includes and refers to as "the future" when discussing path tracing and machine-learning denoisers, that's already here, it's what AMD demonstrated back in 2019 in THIS CLIP
That aside, the stuff described at that link pretty much confirms how I see EEVEE anyway; I expect EEVEE to suffer accuracy at the cost of speed. Food for thought is that if EEVEE ever got as accurate as Cycles, or Cycles ever got as fast as EEVEE, they would be pretty much the same product.
I personally expect to switch between either Cycles or ProRender, and EEVEE as I work. The whole point in me playing with this stuff is because I want to use it to make either pre-visualisation for live-action indies that I want to make, or full-on indie animated movies. Idea being to setup all materials in Cycles or ProRender first, then use EEVEE as a virtual studio to frame shots and compose the animation. I'm obsessed with lighting and cinematography, so most important to me is where and how to move the camera, and whether or not to do a clean or motion cut etc. EEVEE is absolutely perfect for that. Then, when it's all worked out, back to Cycles or ProRender for final rendering.
Seems a bloody good plan Retro.... Look Dev is where EEVEE saves me so much time. ?
Hey Wolf, would you check something for me? I'd love for you to check to see if EEVEE has those Anamorphic camera controls like Cycles does. I wouldn't be using EEVEE for final rendering anyway, so it's not a deal breaker, but it would be super nice to see that vertically stretched bokeh when visualising in EEVEE as well. So I know Cycles does it, but what about EEVEE?
I'm obsessed with Anamorphic lenses and the look they give to the bokeh, and plan to use Anamorphic on everything I do unless it would be specifically out of place. Anamorphic bokeh rocks big-time!
I can't check myself right now cause my system is boxed away until the workmen have been to upgrade the heating in here. Could be another two weeks before I get to play again. I meant to check before I boxed it away, but forgot!
Well I couldn't wait any longer so did some reading-up. Far as I can tell there's no Anamorphic DOF in EEVEE, which is a bit of a bummer, but at least it's there in Cycles (and Superfly thanks to Ted).
Interestingly though, there's no Anamorphic DOF in ProRender either as far as I can tell, so it looks as if I'll be forced to render in Cycles anyway, or Superfly if Poser12 turns out to be attractive enough to animate in Poser.
Well I couldn't wait any longer so did some reading-up. Far as I can tell there's no Anamorphic DOF in EEVEE, >which is a bit of a bummer,
Patience young padawan. ?
I like her, she looks like someone I meet in Dubai , Are you moving your final Animation (rendering) entirely to Blender also ?
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HP Zbook 17 G6, intel Xeon 64 GB of ram 1 TB SSD, Quadro RTX 5000
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CHK2033 posted at 3:27AM Sat, 08 February 2020 - #4379479
I like her, she looks like someone I meet in Dubai , Are you moving your final Animation (rendering) entirely to Blender also ?
Correct sir.
The animation render times are astounding after enduring the abysmal times with my decade old C4D R11.5?
(Dubai girl walks)
https://youtu.be/WO9HdKd6-rM
Cheers Wolf, but that doesn't look like Anamorphic Bokeh. It could be that your settings are not extreme enough. Do you have actual Anamorphic camera controls in EEVEE mode? Bear in mind that just because they appear in Blender and can be adjusted in Cycles mode, does not mean they effect EEVEE mode. Could you post a screen-shot of the Anamorphic camera controls while Blender is IN the EEVEE render mode?
Or do the controls disappear in that mode? That's important because if they disappear, it would mean they are not supported in that render mode, since Blender will only show the controls relevant to each mode. Thanks again for testing though, and I like the character, but I don't see anything Anamorphic going on.
@Retro All three engines ( EEVEE,ProRender and cycles) have animatable depth of field in the camera settings.
The extreme so called "bokeh" effect can be had with extremely low F-Stop parameters but IMHO you are better off rendering the foreground an background elements separately and creating your bokeh effect in your compositor particulary for the "miniature perpective so popular with "Bokeh"?
Cheers Wolf, but unless it falls outside of the screen-shot, I see no Anamorphic control there. If I recall it is labelled "Aspect" under the Depth Tab in the Aperture section. You understand what DOF is, but I recommend you look into Anamorphic DOF (especially as you're into producing stuff) cause it's a very different thing. If you go into Cycles mode you will notice that DOF Aspect setting I mentioned, and that setting is vital, because it allows you to set an aspect ratio for the bokeh independently of the frame.
In other words, it gives you an Anamorphic lens for use in your renders, movies, animations.
If you've ever looked at the spec of a movie written on the back of a DVD or Blu-ray cover for example, you will often see terms such as "Anamorphic Widescreen" and a number after it such as "2.35:1", meaning the film was shot through a real anamorphic lens.
That number is the aspect ratio of the lens they used, and the important thing to understand is that these are very special lenses, they behave differently to standard lenses. It results in the out of focus elements of the scene being blurred in one direction more than the other, and depending on the aspect ratio of the lens, the result could be mild or very noticeable. This is what makes cinema look the way it does, and why people using standard lenses often scratch their heads thinking, how come my stuff never looks cinematic?
Anamorphic is the true look of cinema, mainly because big budget movies are generally the only time they are used, and therefore generally the only time you are ever subjected to the look of a real anamorphic footage. Likely 99.9% of movie-goers out there know the look, they know something is different, but cannot put their finger on what it is.
Well that's what it is, it's the out of focus elements being stretched vertically that is giving the look.
In order to achieve this in Blender and Poser, you need an aspect ratio control for the DOF that is independent of the aspect ratio of the camera frame. You'll notice that you DO have this control in Cycles mode (and Superfly mode in Poser), but it get's completely ignored by people because they have no clue what it is for, or what importance it has in making stuff look cinematic, yet it is the most powerful way to get a cinematic look than anything you could ever wish for. Set that DOF aspect control so that it is twice as high as it is wide, and you have yourself a lovely Anamorphic lens with a 2x ratio to capture your scene!
Watch this little clip and keep your eyes on the TV screen as it goes in and out of focus. You will notice that unlike standard bokeh, the Anamorphic bokeh gets stretched vertically, and you'll also notice that despite this is someone playing around at home, it looks INCREDIBLY cinematic ... well ... that anamorphic bokeh is the magic ingredient!
Just in case you're curious, here's what an Anamorphic lens looks like, notice anything odd about it? That's a 2x aspect lens, so your defocus will look pretty much twice as high as it is wide. To get that type of lens in Blender or Poser, set DOF aspect to 2x to give your movie the true look of anamorphic cinema!
My screen shot is the camera under cycles engine... it's the same options for all three engines so no in camera " bokeh" in blender we have to comp it in post. ?
They might have moved the settings, Wolf, cause Cycles does have it, they even rendered Cosmos Laundromat in Anamorphic Widescreen. They might have moved the settings when they updated things to 2.8x is all I can think, but Cycles certainly does have it and I would still expect to find it under the camera DOF Aspect settings unless there is some sort of new advanced tab they moved it to or something like that.
It's actually a relief you cannot find it, because that still might mean that EEVEE might have it 
Just thought to search Blender's online user guide for Anamorphic, it is there, the setting is called "Aspect" and can be found under the "Aperture" tab of the camera settings. So what I'm hoping is that setting will stretch the bokeh under EEVEE as well as Cycles.
CLICK HERE for the magical Anamorphic setting in Blender
Scroll down that page and you will see it highlighted, and bear in mind Poser has this magical setting too 
Getting back to the original topic, there's another problem. Upgrading the preview Render engine to the "capabilities of OpenGL" means problems for some users. I don't currently use Blender 2.8. Not because I don't want to, but because I can't. I'm stuck at the current level because my computer won't handle OpenGL 3.1 or higher. Now, granted, some of you probably don't give a crap and think why should you suffer because I can't upgrade? It's not just me, you know. There are lot's of people who can't afford to upgrade to a newer machine. I can do it, but unfortunately, it's going to take me some time to save up the money. Unless you people with apparent money to burn want to buy me a new machine now, multiplied by however many Poser users in my boat.
I can afford to wait with my current version of Blender. I recently updated to Windows 10, though. and here's the thing. While my computer worked fine under 10, I had to roll it back to 7 because even Blender 2.79 wouldn't run for me. I have 2.79 running again, though. Even cranked out another prop. Hmm, need some mustard. Now where'd I put that thing?
EClark1894 posted at 4:54PM Sun, 09 February 2020 - #4379669
Getting back to the original topic, there's another problem. Upgrading the preview Render engine to the "capabilities of OpenGL" means problems for some users. I don't currently use Blender 2.8. Not because I don't want to, but because I can't. I'm stuck at the current level because my computer won't handle OpenGL 3.1 or higher. Now, granted, some of you probably don't give a crap and think why should you suffer because I can't upgrade? It's not just me, you know. There are lot's of people who can't afford to upgrade to a newer machine. I can do it, but unfortunately, it's going to take me some time to save up the money. Unless you people with apparent money to burn want to buy me a new machine now, multiplied by however many Poser users in my boat. I can afford to wait with my current version of Blender. I recently updated to Windows 10, though. and here's the thing. While my computer worked fine under 10, I had to roll it back to 7 because even Blender 2.79 wouldn't run for me. I have 2.79 running again, though.
How old is your machine? And did you update all your drivers?
Any off-the-shelf pc from walmart ($300 to $500 range) should run blender just fine. I'm still running win7 on a pc I built in 2014 and have no problems running blender 2.81 and eevee.
EClark1894 posted at 3:54PM Sun, 09 February 2020 - #4379669
Now, granted, some of you probably don't give a crap and think why should you suffer because I can't upgrade? It's not just me, you know. There are lot's of people who can't afford to upgrade to a newer machine.
You'll either hate me for this, or grow a great big dirty smirk across your face, but you look quite wealthy in the video, Clarkie, at least I thought it were you. I'm talking about THIS VIDEO from the other thread. I'm not joking, for some reason I always think that's Clarkie right there, I bet that's how Clarkie looks; the Gentleman who can be seen at around 1:30 and 1:42.
It's really weird I know, but I honestly do think 'Clarkie' whenever I see him, and the mental link just cannot be broken 
That said, if it turns out that you're not him, I would just like you to know that I would build you a new system free of charge, the same as my own, and ship it over to you if I were as wealthy as he appears to be!
AmbientShade posted at 4:34PM Sun, 09 February 2020 - #4379681
Ah. Well it's lasted you much longer than my $1800 macbook "pro" from 2007 lasted me, lol (18 months roughly, before it died). Maybe see if upgrading a few components would be cheaper than buying a whole new machine. Ebay is a good source for that.
That's kinda one of the reasons I decided not to keep that laptop. They just don't look as if they would withstand a constant hammering of realtime rendering etc, so I hope that whatever Clarkie gets next, it is not a laptop, cause he'll be right back to square one again if it dies out of warranty.
Sorry to hear about your Macbook, ouch!!!
I've never tasted pretzels. The pretzels they sell over here look like they're artificial, like they're made of plastic, so I've never been tempted to try one. They also look overcooked, but I think maybe they're supposed to be like that. I had no idea people put mustard on stuff like that. To me it looks like a sort of biscuit or 'cookie' as you Americans would say.
BTW, how did you get the grains of sugar to cling to the geometry? I remember watching something like that in a tutorial quite a few years back, but I've completely forgot how it was done. Would work great for rainy scenes, creating rain droplets on a car body for example, stuff like that.
My 2007 macbook has been rendering frames of my 90+minute animated film almost constantly since 2014. ( rendering the final battle this month and I am Done)?
I have two PC's my newest one with AMD graphics hardware.
@clarke you are a skilled Blender user
I really hope you can make the invesment soon, even in a gently used PC, built in the last 2-4 years Because Blender 2.8x is completely new software and realtime viewport display while working will be a joy for you I am certain.?
Thanks, Wolf, but assuming I still have to texture anything to see how it actually looks in real time, I don't actually expect it to be much different as I truly suck at texturing anything thing I make. That's why I abandon many of the projects I start. It's truly a PITA to texture anything for Cycles in Poser. Poser doesn't have all the nodes I need, and it doesn't read Blender files. And I can't really recreate anything I texture for Cycles in Poser because 1) Missing nodes, and 2) Grouping and ungrouping nodes in the material room is a new adventure everytime. The missing nodes wouldn't bother me so much if they didn't jump around like Mexican jumping beans when they're ungrouped, and the material room was expandable so I could lay things out without scrolling. Then I could at least find workarounds and alternatives to the missing nodes.
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As it is now, Poser is pretty much useless for those of us who wish to make animations and not have our computer tied up for hours or days trying to do so. We really need the preview render engine to be turned into something akin to Blender's new preview engine which has upgraded the standards of the OpenGL engine. Fully implemented OpenGL can do amazing things and is the key to the future of making anything greater than pretty snapshots.