When I save a CR2, I'm asked if I want to save it as a new geometry file or the original figure geometry file. I don't know what to choose (I've been choosing original figure geometry and I give it a new name). I used to see obj files created with my CR2s, but now there's pmd files. Can someone explain why I should make one choice over the other? Thanks.

VedaDalsette.

I have been asking a similar question as to what the difference is between the two options. I have tried both. I get the OBJ file but don't get the PMD file. It is frustrating to find both options seem to be doing the same thing. I can open both saved files in the notepad editor, and they are exactly the same as each other? I just can't see where the difference is.

My own thread where i ask the question of option difference on saving the file seems to have gone dead.

I believe we will have to wait until one of the big gun Poser people stumbles across both our threads to enlighten us both.

Pat :)

The Poser Big Gun(s) answer queries in mysterious ways. Sometimes the Bigguns answer many questions by few and not at all to another. That's why I don't ask the Bigguns questions anymore. Better to hopefully find your answer by searching or regular old forumite.

Maybe its preferable to point your cr2 at your original obj as it hasn't been unwelded at groups? I always just point at the original obj as it's a habit from having to manually edit the cr2 text to reference it. And unwelded meshes suck. Patlane says the objs are identical but are they? Are the ones created by Poser unwelded? I think this new option of a choice just saves you the headache of changing the file path reference manually, it's written to the cr2 for you.

Maybe Poser will do this for props (sans embedding) in Poser 12?

If you are creating a cr2 that doesn't include bends then either option is probably viable. Machines, vehicles, contraptions and such that have bends set to off.

If on the other hand you were to let Poser write out the obj for you, and it was a human or animal figure requiring bends, and you were to somehow lose your original obj, you would be stuck with an unwelded mesh. Try morphing an unwelded mesh in a sculpting app and you'll quickly realize why such a mesh would be undesirable.

And then there's the recently added Unimesh Skinning? Guess who knows what that is and how to maybe apply it to figure creation?

Long silence.

Thanks, both of you, for responding. I, of course, tried to find the answer in the manual and also did a search in the forums before adding this thread. Just as an fyi, I'm using Poser Pro 11.3.818.

I just now created 2 CR2s of P11 Paul. One I saved with the original geometry option and the other with the new geometry option. These are the files I got.

These are my orig Paul files.

He's character, so he has bends.

Here's where the PaulOrig.cr2 points:

morphBinaryFile :Runtime:libraries:Character:!temp:tempPaulsave:PaulOrig.pmd

figureResFile :Runtime:libraries:Character:People:Paul:Paul.obj

Here's where the PaulNew.cr2 points:

morphBinaryFile :Runtime:libraries:Character:!temp:tempPaulsave:PaulNew.pmd

figureResFile :Runtime:libraries:Character:People:Paul:Paul.obj

The cr2 files point to the same obj and read the same, except for the cr2 names. The cr2s and pmds are the same size. I made a change to him (played with head morphs) and spawned a new morph. Saved again. Same thing, just slightly bigger pmds.

In the past, if I added my own cr2 to the library with a different name from the character I was using, then I'd get a new obj file.

I wanted to see what I'd get if I turned off my pmds in the Preferences.

Both cr2s point to: figureResFile :Runtime:libraries:Character:People:Paul:Paul.obj

The cr2s are bigger. All the pmd data is in them. No new obj created.

I dunno. I think I'll just select orig geometry, until I find a reason not to.

Unimesh is cool. It subdivides a figure for a smoother render without adding polygons to the actual model.

Figure/Skinning Method/Unimesh. Then, in the Properties panel under Subdivision Levels, select 1 for Preview and 1 for Render. You can go higher, but Poser might tell you it will result in an extremely high polygon count.

I know that. But what relevance might it have to figure creation? As in might we be able to create figures that circumvent or eliminate Poser's welding weirdness with groups someday. My understanding is that Poser is the only app that does this. Import the Poser created obj into a scene. Is it broken into parts at the groups? That will tell you what is really happening. Or import the 2 versions (original and poser saved) into a modeler or UVMapper, does the Poser saved version have more vertices?

You're not really 'looking under the hood'

The final answer is

Poser added the 2 options for content creators. In the past you had to manually edit the cr2 to point to your original obj. Pointing to the one created by Poser was undesirable because Poser generated an unwelded mesh. Now the manually editing isn't necessary, Poser gives you the option to point at original at save.

Unless you are creating cr2s (figures or clothes) and are a content creator, the option might be confusing.

"I just now created 2 CR2s of P11 Paul."

No. You didn't create anything. You resaved.

You're right. I'm not a content creator and not an artist and don't use different modeling apps. I just use Poser for storytelling. Thanks for your help.

If you're dealing with already existing Poser figures it's basically moot. Thats a resave to library. When you CREATE a poser figure it matters. This is where you're getting confused.

No problem. Just trying to explain why its confusing. Happy rendering :)

Oh. And if you tell stories with images you create, you most certainly ARE an artist.

@EldritchCellar. My CR2 file creation is far simpler than that of Vedadalsette's 'Paul' Figure. Mine is an inanimate obj prop converted to a figure. It is a chassis for a large heavy goods vehicle.

The original chassis.obj file found in the geometries folder is the same size, has the same amount of vertices & Facets as the chassis-2.obj file created in the character folder. It is a copy of the original obj.

I can see differences between the option to save with original and that of a new geometry file as when running the 'Collect Scene Inventory tool' shows the difference with the new geometry file mapped to the character directory and the original mapped to the geometries directory. (I have two separate runtime directories, chassis-A, Chassis-B one for new and one for original.) I open chassis-A, convert the prop to a figure, save as new geom file to its own runtime directory. Re-open Poser, open chassis-B and save as original for the Chassis-B runtime dir. The problem manifests itself when i open a new scene and import the saved chassis figure from the library into the scene. When i run the scene inventory tool it shows a fail as to where chassis-A 'or' Chassis-B.obj is. It is looking in my primary Poser runtime directory on my C Drive.

I go into each respective chassis cr2 file with a text editor to find the mapping of both obj files in their correct F Drive runtime directories, but no reference or mapping to my primary Poser C Drive directory is found anywhere in either CR2 files. As the reference is not there, i am unable to delete the link. As such the Collect Scene Inventory tool shows the fail of the missing file from the C Drive.

Could there be a default preset in Poser's configuration to map to the primary C Drive directory when it is having difficulty pointing the file to the correct Drive and runtime directory?

Thanks

Pat Lane :)

One possible thought. When i use UV Mapper, the last process is to use the 'Weld' tool before saving the model. When the file is imported into Poser, Does Poser see the obj as already welded or has a Poser Weld to be initiated as well? Thanks. Pat Lane :)

"My CR2 file creation is far simpler than that of Vedadalsette's 'Paul' Figure. Mine is an inanimate obj prop converted to a figure. It is a chassis for a large heavy goods vehicle."

If it doesn't bend and the body part groups don't span a continuous section of mesh (as say an arm would; lShoulder, lForearm, etc) then the obj isn't unwelded. So yes your vertices counts will be the same. As I pointed out here...

"If you are creating a cr2 that doesn't include bends then either option is probably viable. Machines, vehicles, contraptions and such that have bends set to off."

Yes. If you let poser save out the obj rather than point to the original the obj will be saved to either the characters folder with the cr2 you created or, in the case of prop creation the obj will be embedded within the .pp2. There's an additional option now. Reference original obj. It's why this discussion is happening.

The error with the collect inventory script may be a bug. The script is a very old one and probably doesn't account for Poser's new option for saving. I wouldn't count on that script for that purpose. I'm just guessing here.

Manually welding/unwelding changes the winding order and vertices count of the figure. Not really an issue unless you have morphs created for that figure. Then it's a serious issue. Wrong number of vertices error or exploding morphs are the result.

If there's bending set to on (1) in the cr2 the mesh as obj is welded in cr2 state within the scene. Even though the obj in geometries the cr2 references may be welded or unwelded as a static obj in geometries. Welding occurs when the cr2 is loaded. It's how poser works (weird). For things without bends in the cr2, a machine with ball joints for example, this is moot.

Load one of the Poser human figures into a scene, go to a body part properties and uncheck the Bend checkbox... you'll see where the weld is turned off and the mesh is split at the 2 group borders when you attempt to pose that body part.

Clarification; your welding and unwelding process doesn't matter unless you have morphs that are intended for a specific winding order, vertices count. Poser will reference the obj for the cr2 but you will lose your morphs or have errors when attempting to load morphs intended for the prior version of the obj. Regrouping operations will also cause this. It's why you get that warning about morphs being unusable (if present) when you enter the set up room with an already created figure.

I seem to remember when the new obj or cr2 was saved to a folder in a Figures runtime category in Library. I might be misremembering though, my memory is foggy and it's been a few years since I created an original cr2. Keep that in mind. Hope some of my observations/thoughts have been useful.

Yes apologies firstly for sort of hi-jacking this thread to ask my own questions. My own thread Below does ask the question of obj save options, but is more towards the problem of the 'Collect Scene Inventory' tool.

(https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2948106)

Unfortunately, apart from a reply from 'a' Mr hborre, I seamed to be replying to myself mostly.

This thread on the other hand is defiantly more helpful to both myself and VedaDalsette's issues. Your point about the Collect Scene Inventory tool being possibly old and buggy may explain why the scene still loads with everything in it and the way it should be. It is just this one fail that is stopping me from uploading the model to Renderosity. One of their prerequisite's is for all files to be correctly mapped. Even the ones that don't exist.

It becomes very obvious that you know a lot more about Poser than most general users, and for that i am grateful for your tuition. It could well be that you are a 'Poser Big Gun' after all.

Thank you EldritchCellar

Pat Lane :)

You're welcome.

I think that if the cr2 references files in geometries that exist there ( the file path references occur in 2 places in the cr2) you should be able to upload it to rendo. As long as its not showing an error nag and asking for an obj location when you load the figure in a scene you should be good. I'll take a look at that thread you linked when I get done work tonight.

@patlane

Ok. I think you're making this more difficult than it needs to be. Put all of the objs that are referenced by cr2 in the same geometries folder on the same drive. If you have to manually edit the file path references to the objs in the cr2, do so. The obj reference sections are at the start of the cr2 and then again not far down through the cr2 file.

Is this cr2 you've created intended as a marketplace product or a freebie?

Unless Renderosity is requiring you to include an inventory collection through that utility script I think its moot. I know that freebies have no such requirement.

Create a Runtime folder with a Geometries folder, a Libraries folder (and relevant sub folders), and a Textures folder. Within each create a sub folder that identifies your figure and place the relevant files. Place the objs in the Geometries subfolder. Place the cr2 in the Characters subfolder (with the necessary mapping applied to point at your objs). Place your image files in Textures. Load you figure into Poser and create image based materials in the material room that point at your files in textures. Also references are created to textures that exist on the figure at the time of being added to the library, if the location has changed for textures make sure to reapply the textures and resave. Create any pose files.

It's best, for redistribution, to use relative paths in the cr2. Relative paths start with Runtime and are separated by colons like this

figureResFile :Runtime:Geometries:MyFigure:MyFigure.obj

And so too with all image file references within the cr2, like this

textureMap ":Runtime:Textures:MyFigure:MFDiff01.png"

Sometimes, for strange reasons, Poser will write absolute paths. I had a problem with absolute paths in one of my freebies I had to correct. It was for alternateGeom: objFile references (geometry switching).

After all this write a ReadMe that also lists included files, put that in a Documentation folder separate from Runtime and zip it up with an appropriately named zip. If everything loads fine from this Runtime structure with no errors you should be good for distribution.

And now I'm tired of talking, may have forgotten something, and need to get back to my Poser projects.

Take Care.