I finally received an update from DAZ concerning DSON and Poser 12 and was told this tidbit:

Currently the owners of Poser have expressed an interest in updating Dson to work with Daz Studio, however, this is not something that is currently being developed.

You should note the commentary about Poser owners reaching out there. What happened to "we're moving forward," and no longer being DAZ compatible or caring about DAZ content users who still use Poser? It seems my previous thread must have rattled a few cages here at Bondware. Just thought I'd post this. It backs up my point about how important DAZ content is to Poser. I got face-slammed and insulted for my original post and told that I was a cantankerous old fool who didn't know what he was talking about ---- and yet here we have DAZ saying Bondware is now interested in updating DSON. So who lies? Maybe I'm not so dumb after all. I think that word is "vindication," --- yep, that's the one I was looking for.

I won't be responding to any posts made here. This is just a notice. I'm not setting myself up for further troll attacks.

that would be very good...

Blender is a heavily Python based Application.

Poser 12 supports python..yes

The recent Daz to Blender "Bridge" is not actually Daz IP but an open source plugin they Co-opted from a formerly commercial plugin available on GITHUB.

DSON IS DEAD even Daz now admits this ("not being developed") so instead of trying to revive Old ,Failed Solutions. Perhaps bondware,or some skill poser python dev, could Download the source code from GITHUB and develop thier own Daz genesis to poser plugin based on Python.

I don't see any contradiction. I think you may be confusing what ordinary users here said in your threads with official Bondware statements.

So both DAZ and Bondware are saying DSON is low on the priority list at best. We knew that.

Bondware is doing the best they can. Python had to be updated. There was no choice. And yes, it's been extremely disruptive. DSON is the least of it. But they're doing what they can. DAZ isn't the only one they reached out to. But not everyone's answer is going to be "yes."

wolf359 posted at 6:26AM Tue, 22 December 2020 - #4408195

The recent Daz to Blender "Bridge" is not actually Daz IP but an open source plugin they Co-opted from a formerly commercial plugin available on GITHUB.

DSON IS DEAD even Daz now admits this ("not being developed") so instead of trying to revive Old ,Failed Solutions. Perhaps bondware,or some skill poser python dev, could Download the source code from GITHUB and develop thier own Daz genesis to poser plugin based on Python.

Would that even be possible? I don't know much about scripting, but I gather DSON actually contains some DAZ Studio code. Obviously, DAZ can include their own code in a plugin, but Bondware or some third party can't. Not without DAZ's permission, which they may not be willing to give.

Maybe improving FBX would be a better tactic. Right now, it's not working well at all.

On Github, the bridge is distributed using Apache License, Version 2.0. I have not read the rights that it corresponds to, as I consider myself not fluent enough to really understand. But the Daz part is made of .dsa files, in uncompressed form. Technically, it looks portable to Poser's universe.

I personally agree that a proper FBX importer is the better choice as DAZ studio has modern FBX exporter.

Reallusion uses FBX to Import & transform Genesis figures to Iclone Avatars

Daz does not even offer official tech support for their Daz to blender plugin, leaving it up to the community to sort out problems because the plugin is open source.

The original project was a failed commercial plugin by a person called "Mitchy" Sold as "genesis 8 to Blender"

The reason it failed commercially was one of the many reasons that the major 3DCC apps (Autodesk ,Maxon,SideXF ,Foundry etc) , Never adopted the free DSON Spec published by Daz when Genesis one was introduced as Daz had originally hoped & Dreamed years ago.?

In short Genesis get its functionality by being connected to its ever growing Data folder in your DS installation.

Export Genesis to another universal format such as FBX and you get just another weighted rig that only superficially appears like the Character you exported from DS but will be missing the JCMS,HD Etc.

Figure out a way to imbed the needed Data in the exported FBX file (Like "Mitchy's original product did) and you get a Bloated,app choking behemoth in the importing app as much as 20 gigs in size.

Remember how bad Poser 10 slowed down with DSON??

AKIAK All of the recent Daz studio export plugins for the major 3DCC's& game engines are using some new non DSON code and or FBX

Either way any interest Bondware allegedly has or does not have, in DSON is Moot as they have moved to Python3 any way and even Daz has abandoned DSON as they have reported to JAG.

Why is the DSON exporter only ever mentioned in connection with Genesis? I don't use Genesis, but I use DSON a lot to get DAZ assets into Poser.

FBX, well would be cool, but both Poser and DAZ have limited and partially broken FBX import/export. Have you ever tried to export some environments from DAZ with FBX? Good luck! There's a big chance that the exported parts are misplaced and it's no fun trying to fix it all for a complex environment.

The so-called DAZ bridges are just scripts that trigger an FBX export and therefore have the same broken functionality. I have had a ticket open with DAZ for some time regarding the broken FBX and bridges, but so far nothing has happened.

Here is just one example of how "nice" a DAZ FBX export can look:

Heh. That looks better than my attempt to get a FBX file into Poser. It was a model of a spaceship, and it looked fine in Blender. In Poser, it looked like it had been in a terrible crash. It was in pieces, scattered all over the place.

**Why is the DSON exporter only ever mentioned in connection with Genesis? **

Because thats what most people use it for due to their lack of skill or time in creating a decent looking female human figure themselves in whatever program their exporting her into , quick and easy ?... Did I win ?

randym77 posted at 12:45PM Tue, 22 December 2020 - #4408223

Heh. That looks better than my attempt to get a FBX file into Poser. It was a model of a spaceship, and it looked fine in Blender. In Poser, it looked like it had been in a terrible crash. It was in pieces, scattered all over the place.

This rigged vehicle was imported into C4D. The problem here is the weight map, if you remove it the vehicle looks OK but you would have to start from zero rigging it again. Haven’t tried yet how this would look in Poser.

CHK2033 posted at 12:48PM Tue, 22 December 2020 - #4408224

**Why is the DSON exporter only ever mentioned in connection with Genesis? **

Because thats what most people use it for due to their lack of skill or time in creating a decent looking female human figure themselves in whatever program their exporting her into , quick and easy ?... Did I win ?

To me Genesis outside of DAZ Studio makes not much sense. I mean what is Genesis without the HD morphs and all the build-in JCMs?

Nagra_00_ posted at 12:53PM Tue, 22 December 2020 - #4408226

CHK2033 posted at 12:48PM Tue, 22 December 2020 - #4408224

**Why is the DSON exporter only ever mentioned in connection with Genesis? **

Because thats what most people use it for due to their lack of skill or time in creating a decent looking female human figure themselves in whatever program their exporting her into , quick and easy ?... Did I win ?

To me Genesis outside of DAZ Studio makes not much sense. I mean what is Genesis without the HD morphs and all the build-in JCMs?

Not everyone understands that though, you do, I do, a few others do as well, but most...dont. to be honest I think MOST people that really want to use her are using her...in Studio (Daz) only the few who refuse to use Studio or just cant for whatever reason are trying to use her in Poser,(too many reasons why) is that train supposed to be open in the front and back ?

CHK2033 posted at 1:22PM Tue, 22 December 2020 - #4408227

... is that train supposed to be open in the front and back ?

Yep, this is the special hot summer FBX version ;-) BTW i imported this train into Poser a long time ago with DSON and all dials do work in Poser as they should….

lol, sorry but its a train ! and old habits are hard to break I guess.

"Maybe improving FBX would be a better tactic"

Please. With honourable exception of a very, very few, fully IK rigs, my PPro_11.3 breaks FBX imports after v6.1. We're up to v7.5 ?? Blender etc I/O plug-ins seem to generate three varieties of rig, and PPro_11 will only grok one correctly. Yes, the rarest, 'trad' type. Else rig loses its root, and import variously fails between Oopsie and Splat...

But, given those few exceptions, I must hope that Poser will become fully compatible with MakeHuman and other FBX figures...

Well I hope that bondware will not start messing around with the Import export extensions as these work Perfectly in Poser ! Mainly it is a lack of knowing how to use them in a correct way , not that they do not work ! Sure DS has got some issues with it ( Not Poser ) this is due that DS does not support simple weights nothing else. but from my knowledge every single DS model can be exported to Poser with no big efforts 1:1 you just need to know the correct workaround and how to use the Extension. the basic of DS is almost the same as Poser . Obvious as it was taken over from the Cr2 scripts at the time and encrypted to there personal format.

If Bondware starts to mess around with these Import export extentions it will just get worse as it already is , like to lose all Py's and many other usefull features that supported older created Packages. More changes might just cause to loose even more compatibility with files over two Decades, all this just because some people with a lack of experience in 3D modeling

Ok I actually do not care as I am still using Poser 11.1 from SM that works perfectly ! and Probably never will jump to the Bondware version as it got more issues then Poser ever had in the Past 2 Decades. it also seems that it takes them years trying to fix stuff , a never ending story.

I know I said I wasn't going to respond on this post, but I must have lied because I cannot tolerate inaccuracy. This post in particular is BS. We're not talking about Blender. That is off-topic. P12 and Blender is off-topic. DAZ Bridges are off-topic. We're talking strictly about DSON. You clearly exhibit no understanding of that. DAZ has said no such thing about DSON. In fact, had you read my initial post you'd know they just told me they talked with Bondware about updating it. I doubt they will. But you're talking in a manner that is not supported by the facts and no personal or professional knowledge of the topic. Please refrain from talking out of your wrong-hole. And for the love of all that's relevant, don't go downloading anything from any mentioned sites. DSON is proprietary for DAZ and is NOT open source. Again...ME KNOWS...YOU TALK OUT OF WRONG HOLE. Hopefully that was clear and concise enough for you to understand.

wolf359 posted at 6:51AM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4408195

Blender is a heavily Python based Application.

Poser 12 supports python..yes

The recent Daz to Blender "Bridge" is not actually Daz IP but an open source plugin they Co-opted from a formerly commercial plugin available on GITHUB.

DSON IS DEAD even Daz now admits this ("not being developed") so instead of trying to revive Old ,Failed Solutions. Perhaps bondware,or some skill poser python dev, could Download the source code from GITHUB and develop thier own Daz genesis to poser plugin based on Python.

I was just sharing what DAZ told me directly - which was that Bondware recently reached out to them about DSON. I have an email from them to prove that. Please don't twist what I said or assume why I said it. None of that is really relevant. I was just sharing information that I felt relevant. I was not trying to start a thread discussion on this again. All it does is turn into a bash-troll-session every dang time.

randym77 posted at 6:56AM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4408196

I don't see any contradiction. I think you may be confusing what ordinary users here said in your threads with official Bondware statements.

So both DAZ and Bondware are saying DSON is low on the priority list at best. We knew that.

Bondware is doing the best they can. Python had to be updated. There was no choice. And yes, it's been extremely disruptive. DSON is the least of it. But they're doing what they can. DAZ isn't the only one they reached out to. But not everyone's answer is going to be "yes."

OFF TOPIC! OFF TOPIC! OFF TOPIC! DSON...DSON...DSON...what part of this are you people missing? We're not talking about bridge plugins. Stop trying to send people off-site to download things that are not relevant. DSON is proprietary to DAZ and is not...I REPEAT...NOT...NOT...NOT open source.

Y-Phil posted at 6:58AM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4408200

On Github, the bridge is distributed using Apache License, Version 2.0. I have not read the rights that it corresponds to, as I consider myself not fluent enough to really understand. But the Daz part is made of .dsa files, in uncompressed form. Technically, it looks portable to Poser's universe.

I DID NOT SAY THAT! I reported that DAZ confirmed that Bondware approached them about updating DSON. DSON, like other python scripts can be updated relatively easy but this particular script (DSON) is proprietary code belonging to DAZ and therefore cannot be updated by anyone but them. They are not currently working on a patch or update but they did not say it was dead - and in fact my post was in order to let folks know there might still be some twitching in this particular digital corpse. At least Bondware realized they might need DSON working. That's it. Stop twisting my words. I had said I wasn't going to mix it up in this thread but dog gone it I'm not sitting here and watching people twist what I said nor send people off-site on dopey missions to download things that aren't even relevant to the topic.

wolf359 posted at 7:00AM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4408215

I personally agree that a proper FBX importer is the better choice as DAZ studio has modern FBX exporter.

Reallusion uses FBX to Import & transform Genesis figures to Iclone Avatars

Daz does not even offer official tech support for their Daz to blender plugin, leaving it up to the community to sort out problems because the plugin is open source.

The original project was a failed commercial plugin by a person called "Mitchy" Sold as "genesis 8 to Blender"

The reason it failed commercially was one of the many reasons that the major 3DCC apps (Autodesk ,Maxon,SideXF ,Foundry etc) , Never adopted the free DSON Spec published by Daz when Genesis one was introduced as Daz had originally hoped & Dreamed years ago.?

In short Genesis get its functionality by being connected to its ever growing Data folder in your DS installation.

Export Genesis to another universal format such as FBX and you get just another weighted rig that only superficially appears like the Character you exported from DS but will be missing the JCMS,HD Etc.

Figure out a way to imbed the needed Data in the exported FBX file (Like "Mitchy's original product did) and you get a Bloated,app choking behemoth in the importing app as much as 20 gigs in size.

Remember how bad Poser 10 slowed down with DSON??

AKIAK All of the recent Daz studio export plugins for the major 3DCC's& game engines are using some new non DSON code and or FBX

Either way any interest Bondware allegedly has or does not have, in DSON is Moot as they have moved to Python3 any way and even Daz has abandoned DSON as they have reported to JAG.

Were you trying to prove that you're an utter troll? DING-DING! Yes you win the cookie on that one. If you have nothing constructive to say then why are you typing? Push the keyboard away and go find something else to do. We really don't care what your opinion is of us. No one does. Your opinion means nothing. If you're using Poser or DAZ you're hardly one to be talking about peoples' skill levels. And if you don't use them - what are you doing in a Poser forum? Ooops...I answered my own question: trolling.

CHK2033 posted at 7:04AM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4408224

**Why is the DSON exporter only ever mentioned in connection with Genesis? **

Because thats what most people use it for due to their lack of skill or time in creating a decent looking female human figure themselves in whatever program their exporting her into , quick and easy ?... Did I win ?

Altering other people's art is copyright infringement. Doesn't surprise me that you're a graffiti type. Don't you have something better to do than berate people and mar their images?

CHK2033 posted at 7:07AM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4408233

lol, sorry but its a train ! and old habits are hard to break I guess.

Irrelevant rambling. Sorry. I call things what they are. If you had tried 12, you'd know that anything Py2 no longer works at all or is jacked up. Meaning all previous python scripts are toast or in need of modification/patch/updating. DSON was but one of those plugins they killed with the update to Py3. Your version of 11 must be awe-inspiring if it's FBX import works that great. I have seldom ever had an FBX load into it that was accurate. Half the textures usually don't load. And it's not me being dumb as same models load better in Carrara and DAZ and other programs that I have. Poser's import for FBX has always been lacking. It's export for FBX is even worse. Not that DAZ does much better because it doesn't. Honestly almost every program handles FBX differently. 3DSMax is the only thing consistent for me with regard to FBX.

If you're not using 12, why are you posting in the 12 forum? Trolling? (Sighs and lays head on keyboard...then begins to slam forehead into space bar repeatedly...)

Azath posted at 7:09AM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4408406

Well I hope that bondware will not start messing around with the Import export extensions as these work Perfectly in Poser ! Mainly it is a lack of knowing how to use them in a correct way , not that they do not work ! Sure DS has got some issues with it ( Not Poser ) this is due that DS does not support simple weights nothing else. but from my knowledge every single DS model can be exported to Poser with no big efforts 1:1 you just need to know the correct workaround and how to use the Extension. the basic of DS is almost the same as Poser . Obvious as it was taken over from the Cr2 scripts at the time and encrypted to there personal format.

If Bondware starts to mess around with these Import export extentions it will just get worse as it already is , like to lose all Py's and many other usefull features that supported older created Packages. More changes might just cause to loose even more compatibility with files over two Decades, all this just because some people with a lack of experience in 3D modeling

Ok I actually do not care as I am still using Poser 11.1 from SM that works perfectly ! and Probably never will jump to the Bondware version as it got more issues then Poser ever had in the Past 2 Decades. it also seems that it takes them years trying to fix stuff , a never ending story.

You don't get to decide what's off-topic and what isn't. Discussion wanders. If you can't deal with that, stay off the Internet.

Don't feed the troll. Let it talk to itself (even though it said it wouldn't). It's entertaining as hell as it is.

randym77 posted at 12:12PM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4409059

You don't get to decide what's off-topic and what isn't. Discussion wanders. If you can't deal with that, stay off >the Internet.

This^

@JAG

For anyone upgrading to poser 12 DSON is Dead....sorry?

Bondware has moved to python 3 to make poser 12 compatible with the rest of the industry knowing full well it breaks the old DSON plugin.

The only people that actually cared about it were those poser users wanting to use genesis models in Poser.

Those people are no longer party of Daz's target Demographic going forward?

Daz is trying to sell Genesis figure content to Autodesk, Maxon and game engine users (hence their export plugins)

This is the reality of things

Well I'm sorry. Last I checked this was MY thread. If you want to ramble off-topic - try starting your own and stop polluting mine with material that does not pertain to the topic being discussed. It's like asking a question about toilet paper and all the answers coming in are about mowing grass. It's nonsensical to put it nicely. Why would I not be able to decided what's off-topic? Rather the question is why would YOU get to decide what is? Your point here is utterly self-defeating. Since I started the thread, then I would surmise that the topic I began it with is the "discussion" focus. Therefore by logical analysis, anything deviating from that would be defined as "off topic." I don't decide it. I merely pointed out a fact. Facts don't give a ruddy dump what you think or whether you like them or not. You went off-topic. That is a fact. I stated a fact. Arguing with that is like butting your head into a brick wall - but go ahead. Feel free to continue providing proof of your inability to focus or to accept factual data.

randym77 posted at 8:02PM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4409059

You don't get to decide what's off-topic and what isn't. Discussion wanders. If you can't deal with that, stay off the Internet.

INTERNET TROLL: "In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or intentionally upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community."

I'm not the troll here, despite the gang-trashing I always receive. I began this thread with a perfectly clear and non-debatable statement regarding a highly relevant issue with Poser 12. Not one single member who has posted thus far on this thread has added to this material in a positive fashion. All of you have either contradicted me, posted nonsensical and off-topic garbage, or...or you've intentionally twisted what I said and tried to goad me about it. By definition all of YOU are the trolls. I said originally I was not going to "feed" the trolls but I despise having my words twisted and having my posts hijacked and used to send people to off-site locations to download things. So I've let you all goad me into responses. So be it. I'll debate you all till they lock the thread again. I'll not stand by and allow my thread to be hijacked yet again by trolls.

As for talking to myself. That statement makes no factual sense. If no one was reading this thread, none of you would be taunting me in it. Clearly the fact that you've read it and posted means it's being read. So I'm not talking to myself am I? You people all act like you're brilliant debaters with far more intellect that you actually possess and when you butt heads with someone like me it becomes all too obvious. There's a term for it. Dunning-Kruger. You're all so intellectually impaired that you can't comprehend just how impaired you really are. I know I'm not a genius. I admit I'm stupid on many topics and subjects. I don't talk about things I can't prove or back up. Admitting your ignorance is key to avoiding its use.

elena_c posted at 8:07PM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4409064

Don't feed the troll. Let it talk to itself (even though it said it wouldn't). It's entertaining as hell as it is.

And your source for this information is where? Whom? Exactly. You're just mouthing off (still) about things you really don't know for a fact. The issue is not just figures. DAZ has a tremendous library of props, environments, and various other things such as clothing that are routinely used by Poser-ites. I'm one of them. I'm not alone. Are we still a target demographic of DAZ? Possibly. DAZ wants Poser to die so they can dominate, and I gather that based on the behavior of the two rivals over the last ten years - and I'm pretty sure we can all agree on this. My original point was that by rendering the DSON importer useless, Bondware is utterly helping DAZ defeat them. The loss of DSON makes Poser less compatible. Less compatible. Does it pick up options with Py3? Undoubtedly, but does anyone really have any scripts using Py3 yet? I don't. Do you? So eventually there will be something I'm sure - but right now, the switch from 2 to 3 has made Poser 12 far less compatible than 11 was. That is a fact. You cannot argue that. Bondware knows this too or they wouldn't have approached DAZ to talk about updating DSON. I have an email from DAZ support stating this happened recently. So based on that I can prove that my point is valid and Bondware (though they won't admit it) knows the loss of DSON has been detrimental -- so much so that they've approached their rivals to try and find a fix.

Please feel free to point out any inaccuracy in what I've just said. Meanwhile your entire post (reply) was based in pure speculation and opinion.

wolf359 posted at 8:17PM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4409068

@JAG

For anyone upgrading to poser 12 DSON is Dead....sorry?

Bondware has moved to python 3 to make poser 12 compatible with the rest of the industry knowing full well it breaks the old DSON plugin.

The only people that actually cared about it were those poser users wanting to use genesis models in Poser.

Those people are no longer party of Daz's target Demographic going forward?

Daz is trying to sell Genesis figure content to Autodesk, Maxon and game engine users (hence their export plugins)

This is the reality of things

JAG posted at 8:20PM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4409096

I feel sincerely sorry that a public thread, in which everyone is free to debate around a central problem, is making you so angry up to the point that you are.... SHOUTING at others, me included. My comment was just a complementary information, not directly targeting you, especially as you wrote at the very start of this thread a sentence that I'm going to repeat here:

"I won't be responding to any posts made here. This is just a notice. I'm not setting myself up for further troll attacks."

You'd like to be respected? That's perfectly normal, and perfectly fine. Respect the others: the netiquette, which existed before internet if I'm not wrong (at the time of the BBSes) indicate that it's not polite to write UPPERCASE. And... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat...

Thank you so much for your kind understanding. Happy New Year.

It's not your thread, Jag, once you post it. If you accept that, I think you'll be a lot happier. You can't control who replies or what they say.

"...if I accept that."

Why would I need or want to accept that? Where is that a rule? You're telling me I cannot make up rules yet you (yourself) are making up rules to counter mine. I stated quite plainly that I started this thread. in doing so I initiated the conversation and the topic itself. Moderators for this forum lock threads for "going off topic." Do you deny that fact? If I build something, it is mine. This is my thread. You can have one too - but you have to start it yourself. I promise not to jump in on yours and troll you (unlike you've done to me). The only quantifiable factor here is that moderators of this forum will lock threads which go off topic. You cannot argue that. It is a known fact. Therefore, if YOU ACCEPT known facts, posting off-topic will get this thread locked. Doubt that? Give it a few more days and see but what this thread doesn't get locked down. Couple off-topic discussion with trolling and such and you'll see why moderators would lock it. Me, I'd lock it right now. It's already so far gone it can't be saved. Not due to me. Had I not been trolled here (as usual) I'd have made no further posts beyond the initial thread.

"If [I] accept that. [you] think I'll be a lot happier."

Really? Do you realize the total absurdity of that statement? Why would accepting something I don't like make me happier? No, it would in fact make you (the troll) happier - if I just accept your opinionated and irrational (as well as fact-less) commentary hijacking my thread. So it would make you happier - not me. That is such an irrational point it barely deserves a response.

And no I can't control who responds or what they say - but I can post disputes and corrections to prevent misinformation. Post whatever you feel like posting but don't expect me not to counter or contradict it. I have that right as well. Free speech flows both ways. Stop telling me to suck up what you spout and then remain silent. No one made you an authority - nor am I. I do, however, have facts to back up my original posted statement. And I continue (and will continue) to point out inconsistencies and outright ignorance when it raises its head in my thread. I do not do this in other peoples' threads. But here, since I started the thread, I will continue to defend my points and position. If you don't like that or agree with it - move along and start your own thread. I didn't post this thread to argue with people. Having said that, I will also not allow it to be hijacked nor my words twisted. This is classic trolling at its finest. You all, that is...not me. But of course trolls suffer from Dunning Kruger...so in your minds I'm the troll I'm sure.

randym77 posted at 9:28PM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4409107

It's not your thread, Jag, once you post it. If you accept that, I think you'll be a lot happier. You can't control who replies or what they say.

Did my upper case offend you? I'm sorry if my use of large letters has upset you. I'm terribly concerned however that you feel like capital letters equates to being shouted out. That seems to me to be some sort of psychological issue on your part. Shouting at a person and using capital letters in a text posting are not and cannot be the same physical thing. If you are exchanging one for the other then that's a serious replacement and reality issue that you might want to talk to a therapist about.

Since this is "public" forum (and not really since it is restricted to registered members but alas...technicality I suppose)...I shall use big letters whenever I feel like it. Berating me for capital letters and make an emphasis in-text, is perhaps the most childish come-back you could have possibly formulated.

Your post was not complimentary. It was off-topic. It had nothing to do with DSON. You stated: "On Github, the bridge is distributed using Apache License, Version 2.0. I have not read the rights that it corresponds to, as I consider myself not fluent enough to really understand. But the Daz part is made of .dsa files, in uncompressed form. Technically, it looks portable to Poser's universe."

The word/term "DSON" does not even appear in that post. Nothing in that post pertains to DSON. You did however link off-site...again to non-related material. No one was talking about bridges. DSON is not a bridge. It is not open-source. It is not public code. It is owned wholly by DAZ. It is a plugin for Poser. Poser only. Either you intentionally tried to shift the discussion to bridges (a different type of plugin that is sometimes open-sourced)...or you don't know anything about DSON and were blathering. So which is it? Answer that question before addressing me further please. Don't skirt it.

Yes, I said I was not going to address trolls. I also further stated when I did post again WHY (oh no...not emphasis again!) I was posting. People (trolls) were twisting my words, posting off-topic misdirection, and contradicting known facts within the thread that I started. I have a right to defend my post, myself, and my points. Had the thread not be troll-bombed, I would not have posted further. I don't like having my thread hijacked and used for off-topic garbage. If you have something to post about, do it in your own thread. Don't jump in on one that's being read a lot and add your garbage to it. That's hijacking. I believe that's been a faux pas since the dawn of time. Feel free to check me on that one. Using other people's notoriety or other popular content to promote your own drivel has also been a popular pastime for losers since...well, forever. It's done in culture, media, and entertainment as well as the news. It's also done in internet forums. CLEARLY. Very clearly. Whoops...I capitalized again...are you crying? My bad. I'm such a meanie using my caps-lock in such a vicious manner. I really should be locked away for that. No one should ever add emphasis to something they type. Gosh...what horrendous manners!

Netiquette? Could not exist before the net. The word literally has "net" in it. Your attempt at smarm just sounds like...well I won't use that word here but I'm sure you can figure out some inserts for yourself that will do just fine. In simpler terms, netiquette is a fabrication built around the internet and thus could not exist before it. I tend to adhere to the rules of free speech myself. I also reserve the right to dispute, contradict, and defend my post/thread/position to any and all trolls. What really is your argument here anyway? What did I say that was inaccurate or offensive? You do realize you're trolling me over capital letters and the fact that I truthfully called you out for posting off-topic.

Before responding, try explaining the relevance of your original post. The word DSON does not appear in it. It had no bearing on DSON whatsoever. I would very much like to hear you out on that. Rather than wasting keyboard clacks on crying about capital letters, why don't you expend some energy on defending your point and post - that - which I will REPEAT...REPEAT...REPEAT...you did not do whatsoever. You did not because I was right. So rather than reiterate your off-topic post and prove me right, you chose to instead, skew the argument by going off on a tangent about etiquette and giant letters (that apparently hurt your ears?). But again, this is off-topic. Nothing to do with DSON. So you still proved my point. You clearly can't debate on-topic. Probably this is a result of you knowing nothing about said topic to start with.

Here's a thought: Remove your fingers from your keyboard...push back in your seating...get up...and walk away. You will not intimidate me, humiliate me, out-debate me, or succeed in out-pointing me. You posted off-topic. Then you went personal and off-topic again. And yet you still haven't posted a single word in regard to DSON at all. Not one. That's called OFF-TOPIC! Sorry...was that too loud? My bad. Sometimes things need to be shouted - especially when Dun-Krugs refuse to hear what you're saying.

Thanks and you have a nice day as well!

Y-Phil posted at 9:42PM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4409099

JAG posted at 8:20PM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4409096

I feel sincerely sorry that a public thread, in which everyone is free to debate around a central problem, is making you so angry up to the point that you are.... SHOUTING at others, me included. My comment was just a complementary information, not directly targeting you, especially as you wrote at the very start of this thread a sentence that I'm going to repeat here:

"I won't be responding to any posts made here. This is just a notice. I'm not setting myself up for further troll attacks."

You'd like to be respected? That's perfectly normal, and perfectly fine. Respect the others: the netiquette, which existed before internet if I'm not wrong (at the time of the BBSes) indicate that it's not polite to write UPPERCASE. And... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat... There'sNoNeedToRepeat...

Thank you so much for your kind understanding. Happy New Year.

They usually don't lock threads for going off topic. They might move them to a different forum.

If threads are locked, it's usually because someone is being a jerk.

When threads go massively off-topic...yes, they do. When people troll someone or something to death...yes they do. When people post flame-bait just to goad others into warring...yes they do. I was not being a jerk in my initial post. I said nothing rude, obstinate, or even untrue in my first post. I even made it a point to say that I wouldn't respond to trolling. And yet that was and is, immediately what erupted. Trolling...pure and simple. I have been harassed for defending my original statement and contradicting inaccurate comments attached to my thread. Now you're insinuating I'm a jerk. Why am I the jerk? I posted a simple and very important bit of information regarding Poser 12 in the Poser 12 forum and walked away. When I return a week later to see if anyone had added anything pertinent to the post I find that nothing but "jerks" (your word not mine) have hijacked the thread posting off-site links (that are not relevant), copyright infringing artwork which they did not have rights to alter, people twisting my words to make it seem like I said something I did not, and people talking nonsense that was not true, and finally...pure trolls harassing everyone in general (red smiley guy you know who you are). But somehow I'm the jerk for stepping in and pointing out all the trolling material and attempting to counter it. Then when I'm attacked directly, I'm supposed to ignore it and walk off? No. I am allowed to defend myself and my position as well as my post. I'm not attacking in anyone else's thread - only my own and only in defense of myself and the topic I presented. I am at this point tempted to ask for it to be locked. I'm sure the moderators will get around to it at some point. And it all starts with people (trolls) posting off-topic commentary. Why is it so bloody hard for people to focus on a topic and discuss it? Why does everyone have to go off on tangents and screw with things? If you've got something to say - great! - go start your own thread. Say whatever you want there. More power to you. But don't come post on MY THREAD...twist my words and add nonsensical, uninformed garbage to it. I posted my thread to inform the users who were interested. I won't sit back and allow that message to be dumped on by trolls without saying something. Which is what I've done - said something - in the form of calling you all out on your posts. No one...NOT ONE OF YOU...has bothered as of yet to actually dispute or contradict my points about your posts. You people cannot debate professionally to save your lives. If I dispute your position - present evidence to back it up. Point out mistakes in my own position. That's debate. That's how it happens...how it works. When I state something contrary to your position you don't whine about me using capital letters or tell me to just suck it up and accept it. That isn't debate. It isn't constructive. So I can't debate with you people. You all go childish and troll me. So pardon me if I gouge you right back. I don't believe in high roads. I believe in giving what you get. Be professional and I'll be professional back. Troll me like a six year old and I'll remind you why you should have stayed under the porch. I will not tamp down my own limited intellect to make you feel good about your inadequacies. Grow up and stop calling people names.

Definition of jerk (Entry 1 of 3) 1a: an annoyingly stupid or foolish person

b: an unlikable person especially : one who is cruel, rude, or small-minded a selfish jerk

That word does not apply to me. Small-minded especially. Arrogant, defiant, intolerable, obnoxious, rude - lots of words might apply. I know what I am. But again, I respond in like fashion. Be nice to me and show respect and don't pollute my posts and I won't be such a person towards you. You people bring much of this on yourselves. I wasn't even going to reply on this thread originally until I saw how horridly trolled it was. Now I'm defending myself and the thread. If that offends you...the fact that I won't let you all hijack the topic and the thread without calling you out on it - well that seems like a problem on your end and not mine. If you can't post and not handle responses, then don't post. If you don't like me and what I have to say - get out of my thread and stop antagonizing me. I was here first. I started this thread. It was important and not intended to engage a flame war. It was relevant to the community and to Poser 12 users specifically. Nothing any of you people have tacked onto this thread has had a bloody single relevant point to do with that original post and topic. Not one. I take that back...Nagra actually did. The FBX discussion was somewhat relevant to the DSON issue as it can be construed as a work-around for the dysfunction of DSON in Poser 12. But of course somebody comes in, mars his image, and reposts it to be smarmy - so even Nagra got trolled. This thread is a joke at this point. This is why Poser is dying. No one with any professional ability to have discourse exists here anymore. It's just a lost cause. I try to share information and all I get is a flame war started by people with nothing better to do than flame and troll. Fighting back does not make me a jerk or a troll. I respond in kind. I was not a troll or a jerk to start with. I meet trollery with trollery.

I hope they do lock this thread. It will validate my points...proving it has degenerated into oblivion as a result of trolls marring it with off-topic flaming. Good show. I sometimes wonder if you people don't do this on purpose. If you can't counter an argument, you do your best to have the debate trampled and obliterated. If you can't win, you all go scorched Earth. Again...good show. My compliments on the effectiveness of your trolling methodology. Unfortunately I don't just bark and run. I growl at the fence till my master kicks me. I do not back down. I do not say things that are not true nor things I cannot prove. When I speak it is with confidence that I am right. If that intimidates you, then again the problem is on your end, not mine.

randym77 posted at 11:42PM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4409113

They usually don't lock threads for going off topic. They might move them to a different forum.

If threads are locked, it's usually because someone is being a jerk.

I was speaking in general, not in particular. Hundreds, probably thousands, of threads have been locked here over the years, usually because people were being jerks. No one person in particular was responsible for all that.

Your first post was perfectly fine. But so were all the replies to it. It was your response to the perfectly polite, interesting, and useful discussion that crossed the line. IMO.

But if you do want this thread locked, keep at it, You're well on the way.

Ehh... just put him om ignore. People like him are never happy.

I read the original post as Bondware telling DAZ that Studio is dead unless DAZ updates DSON to work with their own software.

"I finally received an update from DAZ concerning DSON and Poser 12 and was told this tidbit:

Currently the owners of Poser have expressed an interest in updating Dson to work with Daz Studio, however, this is not something that is currently being developed."

I guess DAZ has no wish to make DSON compatible with their own offering eh Jag? Logic as you requested in relation to your own statement and the one supposedly from an authority at DAZ. No need to reply. Like yourself; I'l l not respond.

parkdalegardener posted at 6:14AM Sat, 02 January 2021 - #4409179

I read the original post as Bondware telling DAZ that Studio is dead unless DAZ updates DSON to work with their own software.

LOL. Reads, to me, like Bondware did not just 'express an interest' in an update but actually in doing the 'updating'?

prixat posted at 7:34AM Sat, 02 January 2021 - #4409221

parkdalegardener posted at 6:14AM Sat, 02 January 2021 - #4409179

I read the original post as Bondware telling DAZ that Studio is dead unless DAZ updates DSON to work with their own software.

LOL. Reads, to me, like Bondware did not just 'express an interest' in an update but actually in doing the 'updating'?

I think they did that with a lot of scripts. In another thread, someone said Bondware contacted the heirs of Dimension3D and asked permission to update his scripts so they'll run in Python 3. (Unlike DAZ, they said yes.)

It sucks that so many scripts many of us have come to depend on no longer work, but it sounds like Bondware did their best to mitigate the impact.

JAG posted at 8:56AM Sat, 02 January 2021 - #4409096

INTERNET TROLL: "In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts flame wars or intentionally upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community."

I'm not the troll here, despite the gang-trashing I always receive. I began this thread with a perfectly clear and non-debatable statement regarding a highly relevant issue with Poser 12. Not one single member who has posted thus far on this thread has added to this material in a positive fashion. All of you have either contradicted me, posted nonsensical and off-topic garbage, or...or you've intentionally twisted what I said and tried to goad me about it. By definition all of YOU are the trolls. I said originally I was not going to "feed" the trolls but I despise having my words twisted and having my posts hijacked and used to send people to off-site locations to download things. So I've let you all goad me into responses. So be it. I'll debate you all till they lock the thread again. I'll not stand by and allow my thread to be hijacked yet again by trolls.

As for talking to myself. That statement makes no factual sense. If no one was reading this thread, none of you would be taunting me in it. Clearly the fact that you've read it and posted means it's being read. So I'm not talking to myself am I? You people all act like you're brilliant debaters with far more intellect that you actually possess and when you butt heads with someone like me it becomes all too obvious. There's a term for it. Dunning-Kruger. You're all so intellectually impaired that you can't comprehend just how impaired you really are. I know I'm not a genius. I admit I'm stupid on many topics and subjects. I don't talk about things I can't prove or back up. Admitting your ignorance is key to avoiding its use.

elena_c posted at 8:07PM Thu, 31 December 2020 - #4409064

Don't feed the troll. Let it talk to itself (even though it said it wouldn't). It's entertaining as hell as it is.

Lol. You've just described yourself perfectly. Intentionally upsetting people? Bingo. You're a troll.

You opened this thread stating your opinion (a debatable opinion) while also stating you won't discuss your opinion.That's not debating, since you refused to engage at the outset. That's trolling. You're trolling. You're a troll.

You also state that you pride yourself on your debating skills because you (paraphrasing) use all the tools. You make ad hominem attacks ("intellectually impaired etc"). You refuse to stay on the subjective level, you intentionally drag things onto the emotional level, and what's worse, you think that is somehow a cunning debating technique, and that you earn points by browbeating your conversational partners. Newsflash, it's not. It's bullying, and trolling. You're a troll.

You also state that you are intrinsically convinced that you're always right (again, paraphrasing, can't be arsed to look up your exact quote) thereby prohibiting debate, because you refuse upfront to take other opinions onboard. Again, that's trolling. You're trolling. You're a troll. See the pattern?

Yeah, you're not talking to yourself, you're right about that. That was nonsensical on my part. My other points still stand. (See? Admitting that the other party has a point, and that you may have stated something that doesn't contribute to the debate. It's not that hard. You should try it sometime.)

And this is all the feeding I'm going to give you, troll, against my better judgement I might add, but I had nothing better to do for the time it took me to write this. Now, excuse me while I get the popcorn to continue watching this shitshow of a thread.

Jag, you need to re read this entire thread.

It is rather funny, because you have been trolled into taking this thread so far off topic it is scary, after requesting it stay on topic....

shvrdavid posted at 7:54AM Sun, 03 January 2021 - #4409260

Jag, you need to re read this entire thread.

It is rather funny, because you have been trolled into taking this thread so far off topic it is scary, after requesting it stay on topic....

The OP was not "trolled"

The topic of the thread was to announce that Apparently bondware asked Daz inc about any future update to DSON, as Poser 12 python 3 breaks the old plugin....

Daz flatly said... no.

AFIAK no one disputed this.

We learned nothing new from the Post except that Daz has apparently officially stated that DSON is no longer being developed..period

Again not shocking news as they have moved on to other Genesis export plugins for the major 3DCC's& Game engines with nothing new for Poser ,DSON or otherwise,.

The thread drifted onto theoretical discusions about potentially other Python 3 based ways to import genesis into poser including perhaps re-engineering a free open source Genesis 8 to Blender python plugin on github.

The OP burst back into his supposedly abandoned thread and angrily attacked everyone who posted in "his " thread after his "abandonment"?

wolf359 posted at 10:08AM Sun, 03 January 2021 - #4409289

We learned nothing new from the Post except that Daz has apparently officially stated that DSON is no longer being developed..period

DSON is active, as it's what is the scripting language/scene notation for DAZ Studio. You all mean the "DSON Importer for Poser" which is the plug in; that's what's not being developed.

I will buy Poser 12 as soon as DSON importer will work again and I can use my DAZ G2 and G8 figures again. In between I change to blender. If I have to reconfigure the content one way or another, then I do it in the Blender and certainly not in Poser 12. Poser can only hold me if I can use my old content. I prefer to work with Poser 11 and Blender

joker2000 posted at 4:55PM Sat, 16 January 2021 - #4410432

I will buy Poser 12 as soon as DSON importer will work again and I can use my DAZ G2 and G8 figures again. In between I change to blender. If I have to reconfigure the content one way or another, then I do it in the Blender and certainly not in Poser 12. Poser can only hold me if I can use my old content. I prefer to work with Poser 11 and Blender

The free 'Diffeomorphic" plugin imports Daz Genesis figures and content into Blender, even at high levels of of SubD.

It even emulates Iray skins in Blender cycles.

Yes. I work with this Diffeomorphic tool. It's great. The only issue is, that it can't handle HD morphs and HD expressions. That's because blender 2.91 doesn't support multiresolution morphs. I hope they will finde a solution soon.