In the process of converting a DForce outfit to Poser Dynamics for use in some renders of the Nova figure. So far I have the garments converted to obj via DSF Toolbox, suitably grouped, and very basically scaled and translated to a near fit of the figure. I plan on using Blender or Mudbox's sculpting tools to do a final close fit. In particular the inner hood and veil. The following image shows the initial import fitting, with Poser's transforms, and the garment's color coded groups (which will be separated into individual meshes)...

I'm thinking of leaving the inner hood (yellow) as a smart prop which I won't clothify but rather just create on the fly post transform fix/fit morphs for the various render poses I use the garment in. The inner hood is not a continuous mesh, having a break at the front bottom...

Everything can also be regrouped if necessary.

Any advice or observations would be welcome, I have a fair amount of knowledge about Poser dynamics procedures but not a ton of actual use for multi parted garments. For fitting and fixing any after the fact problems I'm pretty well covered but for the simulations process tips would be useful. Particularly for kneeling poses or anything with extreme leg bending. I'm thinking religious ecstasy looking into rays of divine light from above type poses that you see in old religious paintings.

Thanks.

For a multi garment outfit, I recommend a different simulation for each item starting with the innermost garment. In this case, the pink robe. Then if you chose, the yellow hood, then the red collar and then the blue hood. Have the robe collide with the figure and anything in the environment. With each new simulation, include the garments under it too. So the blue hood should include the yellow hood, the collar and the robe. For kneeling, I recommend starting with the figure behind where you want them to help smooth the skirts something like this.

and then to this

the blue square is only for reference of the location.

Thank you RedPhantom, that's helpful. I have Frequency's multi multi part pdf Dynamics tutorials (found in the free stuff here), guess I should spend some time really looking at them. I've bought so many dynamic and DForce, and freebies, outfits but have never really had the time to dive into actually using them. Especially useful for figures that dont have a lot of clothing options and dynamic gowns and dresses and such look so much better than conforming IMO.

Thanks again.

The only thing I've noticed with dForce is that it can handle layered garments, while there might be a little poke-through when used in Poser. You shouldn't have a problem, with each layer a separate mesh.

Also, don't use drape frames with dForce. Drape frames assume the figure is in the T-pose, not the A-pose that dForce uses.

My tips for Poser dynamic cloth: check "cloth self-collision" for poses like kneeling. If you want a little more control over the direction the cloth drapes, try using a wind force.

Thanks for the tips Randym77. I can fix most problems externally; poke through and drape adjustment with sculpting tools. Hopefully after enough tries I can get "close enough" results in Poser itself with just the cloth room. I won't need to start rendering anything for a couple weeks so there's time to experiment. Now I'm scouring the 3d world for cathedral interior models and free cathedral interior hdri... preferably dark and moody with contrasty lit windows for reflections. Found some nicely made cathedral elements on sale over at Daz and there's a nice texture expansion for the habit for sale here that will expand the uses of the refit.

Speaking of cloth self collision I thought that was mandatory usually, for good results. I always have used that.

Thanks again.

Something else that fits with dynamic clothing is avoiding large, rapid movements. In other words, a lot of movement done in only a few frames. Many times for a sitting figure, rather than moving a figure from in front of a chair back into the chair, I have the figure positioned where I want them and have the chair pushed back out of the way and move it into place for the end of movement frame. (usually, I give the figure 15 frames to get from zero pose to whatever pose I want and then another from letting the cloth settle.) The more movement a figure makes, the more frames you need to keep the cloth from whipping around and going wild, unless that's the effect you're going for.

Polyhaven is one of your best bets to find a suitable HDR although I haven't seen anything quite close to your description.  Many cathedral interiors I've seen are well lit and not brooding at all.  Chances would be that you take one of those images and change the tone mapping in software like Picturenaut, HDRShop, or any other suitable application.  Photoshop doesn't quite cut it ATM.

RedPhantom posted at 12:45 PM Tue, 25 January 2022 - #4433768

Something else that fits with dynamic clothing is avoiding large, rapid movements. In other words, a lot of movement done in only a few frames. Many times for a sitting figure, rather than moving a figure from in front of a chair back into the chair, I have the figure positioned where I want them and have the chair pushed back out of the way and move it into place for the end of movement frame. (usually, I give the figure 15 frames to get from zero pose to whatever pose I want and then another from letting the cloth settle.) The more movement a figure makes, the more frames you need to keep the cloth from whipping around and going wild, unless that's the effect you're going for.

That's a good tip, appreciated

hborre posted at 2:36 PM Tue, 25 January 2022 - #4433770

Polyhaven is one of your best bets to find a suitable HDR although I haven't seen anything quite close to your description.  Many cathedral interiors I've seen are well lit and not brooding at all.  Chances would be that you take one of those images and change the tone mapping in software like Picturenaut, HDRShop, or any other suitable application.  Photoshop doesn't quite cut it ATM.

I found a couple that were suitable but the licensing was editorial use only. On top of having to sign up for membership.

I have, however, found some great old hall hdris (with super high resolution back plates) that'll probably do the trick... yes found said at Poly Haven. Still looking though, you can never have too many HDRIs but I seem to have too many forest exterior ones. I did find a sort of moody Cathedral interior through Blender Kit, open source, but I have yet to fire Blender up and take a look. I'll probably do that after writing this. Really what I have in my minds eye is a cavernous, vast stonework and intricate timber interior with high gothic window lighting. Now just a matter of compromising that to find something that works. I'm thinking the hdr for the fill and maybe a spot for the key.

I'll take a look at those suggested softwares also, probably should add something like that to my tool set.

Yeah, the problem with too many HDRi's is disk space.  Those files can get pretty large depending on the resolution of the image.  Going over 5k for Poser is overkill IMHO.  You can easily cripple the software that way.  I am currently reading The HDRI Handbook 2.0 by Christian Bloch, although it's a bit dated, it does give some handy insight into dynamic range images and how to work with them.  I only have the digital version, the hardcopy with work disc is way, way overpriced.

hborre posted at 7:55 PM Tue, 25 January 2022 - #4433786

Yeah, the problem with too many HDRi's is disk space.  Those files can get pretty large depending on the resolution of the image.  Going over 5k for Poser is overkill IMHO.  You can easily cripple the software that way.  I am currently reading The HDRI Handbook 2.0 by Christian Bloch, although it's a bit dated, it does give some handy insight into dynamic range images and how to work with them.  I only have the digital version, the hardcopy with work disc is way, way overpriced.

I have 2 200 GB Google drives and an external ssd. Most of my older Poser content is still on DVDs and haven't made onto my new Runtimes yet.

Usually I use 2 environment spheres, one for lighting with the lower res hdri and an inner with the high res image for reflections/background, visible in raytracing/visible in camera alternate setup, or sometimes back cards and live model elements. Depends. Or just straight IDL no HDRI for less realistic, occlusiony stylized stuff, hell sometimes just Firefly and Preview renderer.

Alot of times a blurry background is sufficient especially with post for portrait stuff. Still haven't gotten around to reading the EZDome documentation and hoops so I just use a couple of BB's spheres. Usually with the inner image one scaled down. Sometimes scaled down a lot and with non matching lighting images on the outer sphere, like artificial studio lighting set up HDRI. I've gotten good portrait lighting that way. Not a strict realism adherent so I tend to experiment. I've grown fond of the GI look of HDRI though. In general rendering can be tiresome with the endless tweaking but its nice when you find set ups that work reliably for different situations. One of the reasons that I'm not super stoked on SuperFly, I've gotten to the point with FireFly that I can find a reasonable solution pretty readily. I'm happy with the level of realism afforded by Firefly. Superfly materials on the other hand I find very interesting because of the different PBR approach and things such as Substance/3DCoat/Marmoset that makes setting up materials for objects very streamlined and procedural. Especially generating the various maps and baking.

Anyway, blabbering now... I'll take a look around and see if I can find a cheap pdf of that book you mentioned...

Thanks

Also, take a look at EZDome, it's based on BB's double spheres.  As a matter of fact, BB contributed his talents to its creation.

"Still haven't gotten around to reading the EZDome documentation and hoops so I just use a couple of BB's spheres."

Ahead of you on that one. Must have missed that. I've always found the documentation on Snarly's things a bit opaque for some reason.

I found a couple cheap copies of that HDRI 2 book you mentioned. One for around 40 on Amazon and one from Steven's Books for about 23 with free delivery. Unfortunately the Steven's Books copy doesn't specify if it has the disc. Not sure of that seller's reputation either.

(Personally, my spare change is being reserved for buying the Simply Cloth addon for Blender atm.)

 I'd say 40 isn't horrible for such a book really.

Finally got around to running those sims on the converted DForce Nun outfit for Genesis 8 on Nova in Poser's cloth room. Required some constraints and offset tinkering between the 4 layers but turned out well in the end. Basic firefly diffuse tests.

Thanks again for the tips..

Thanks for this thread. I'd been wondering about that myself, esp. when I started seeing dForce outfits as freebies! @primorge: what you did with that nun outfit looks fantastic! Thanks for sharing :-)

perpetualrevision posted at 12:23 PM Mon, 28 February 2022 - #4435307

Thanks for this thread. I'd been wondering about that myself, esp. when I started seeing dForce outfits as freebies! @primorge: what you did with that nun outfit looks fantastic! Thanks for sharing :-)

It was the only decent "dynamic nun" uniform I could find. The item is all quads which isn't optimal for dynamics in Poser. Seems that diagonally bisected quads into tris works best with Poser dynamics. Quads have a tendency to produce folds that suffer from what Bagginsbill used to refer to as "Crystal Ridges" deformations. I subdivided the nun outfit as a prop and smoothed it a bit with external sculpting tools which helped to remedy the most obvious occurrences. Additionally I had to rearrange and resize the UVs because all of the UV shells of the outfit parts were on one tile. Not optimal for detailed textures. Also the outfit came only with a seamless bump tile, no textures, so I had to make some layer overlay fill textures. Anyway, it was a bit of work for an outfit, I think more thoughtfully constructed and unlayered conversions would be easier. I just did a render with the outfit, which doesn't feature the outfit predominantly, for a freebie promo image... shown below (Firefly). I think the outfit could use better maps and draping/fitting but it'll do in a pinch for distant full figure renders.

Thanks for the comment.