hborre posted at 4:54 PM Thu, 6 October 2022 - #4445993

If you are using the PhysicalSurface node, you have access to displacement.  But you need a significant resolution for it to work correctly.  Don't even bother with Cycles ATM, it's trickier to get the right values for displacement.

@ADP, I peeked into that MC6 file and I see no reference to the PrincipledBsdf node anywhere in the coding.  It looks like it's missing nodes.

I played around with the physical surface with displacement in the past, the values were tricky there also. It did seem to work but not quite like it does in Firefly. Seemed to require more subdivision than expected IIRC... I'll play around with it some more, does seem a shame to hinge certain details on displacement and have that not work in both renderers optimally. Subdivision morphs out of Zbrush can be unpredictable, can cause you to waste some work.

Thanks for commenting hborre. Also saw your comments on it in the other forum, I'll fuss around with it a bit more seriously when the time comes.

@primorge: About the "sand effect" - yes, you are right :)

I did the preview with my smartphone. Image is ok on a 6.4" OLED Screen :)

I have thoughts, but might there be a more appropriate thread to discuss this in?

odf posted at 6:21 PM Thu, 6 October 2022 - #4446003

I have thoughts, but might there be a more appropriate thread to discuss this in?

Back to my high res plane figure, Susie lol.

odf posted at 6:21 PM Thu, 6 October 2022 - #4446003

I have thoughts, but might there be a more appropriate thread to discuss this in?

You're right odf, the only reason I mentioned it was in relation to some displacement map stuff I did on Antonia. Which there will be more once things are stable. I don't have much interest in "ethnic" or "pretty" personally so displacement seems like the most immediate way to fit my needs. Apologies.

Back to my high res plane figure, Susie lol.

Incidentally, I'm trying to condition myself to avoid terms like "ethnic" when referring to non-white people, so please y'all feel free to give me a slap on the wrist if you catch me using it.

I don't recall you using that term odf. Just to let you off the "sticks out like a sore thumb" hook.

Maybe it will amuse some of you that while trying to figure out how to work around Blender's insistence on ignoring poly groups, I'm pretty sure I just reinvented a trick I (and probably many others, too) used to use years ago:

- Via a script, change the material names to include the group names. So, for example, the polys in the abdomen actor have group "abdomen" and material "skin_BODY", so the script turns that into a material "abdomen:skin_BODY." The lips have group "head" and material "lips", so that becomes "head:lips."

- Edit the file in Blender.

- On the result OBJ, run a second script that restores the original material and group names.

Now that that's sorted, I can start doing little UV fixes with the confidence that I can get them from Blender back into Antonia's geometry file for Poser without bruising my brain in the process.

The eye UVs should be fixed now. If anyone wants to check, grab the OBJ from my github repo.

Direct link for convenience: https://github.com/odf/Antonia.Polygon-1.3/blob/main/Runtime/Libraries/Character/odf/Antonia-1.3/Antonia-1.3.obj

Here's a beauty shot (left eye and right eye cover/cornea): 

The UVs for the right eye are flipped because that's what Blender did when I mirrored the remapped left eye to make the new right one. Not sure if flipped is good or bad. Any opinions?

...otherwise, good job. No more crunching at iris rim or stretching at the pupil. I can't take a look until I get done work.

odf posted at 1:06 AM Fri, 7 October 2022 - #4446034

Maybe it will amuse some of you that while trying to figure out how to work around Blender's insistence on ignoring poly groups, I'm pretty sure I just reinvented a trick I (and probably many others, too) used to use years ago:

- Via a script, change the material names to include the group names. So, for example, the polys in the abdomen actor have group "abdomen" and material "skin_BODY", so the script turns that into a material "abdomen:skin_BODY." The lips have group "head" and material "lips", so that becomes "head:lips."

- Edit the file in Blender.

- On the result OBJ, run a second script that restores the original material and group names.

Now that that's sorted, I can start doing little UV fixes with the confidence that I can get them from Blender back into Antonia's geometry file for Poser without bruising my brain in the process.

If I export a figure from Poser and import into Blender ("Keep Vert Order" and "Poly Groups" checked), then export to Wavefront ("OBJ as" all unchecked, "Keep Vertex Order" and "Polygroups" checked), I can import the mesh into Poser and have all groups intact. But all the materialnames has ".001" appended. This happens with Blenders import an can be seen in Blenders material editor. I didn't try it, but https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/files/blend/rename.html should be a tool to help with the problem.

Are you using the old or new importer, adp001?

The old one.

And replace works fine!

Hmm, good to know. I think I‘ll go with the new importer and my workaround now, though.

The UVs for the right eye are flipped because that's what Blender did when I mirrored the remapped left eye to make the new right one. Not sure if flipped is good or bad. Any opinions?

odf posted at 4:24 AM Fri, 7 October 2022 - #4446045

The UVs for the right eye are flipped because that's what Blender did when I mirrored the remapped left eye to make the new right one. Not sure if flipped is good or bad. Any opinions?

Okay, I just checked, and it turns out Antonia 1.2 also had the UVs for the right eye flipped. I guess it's a case of "if it ain't broke" then.

I do have a small request for a change, feel free to ignore it but you seem to take my observations throughout this thread starting a year ago with some consideration (boob topology, eye topology, face morphs in body, split morph, head injection, UDIM etc), many of those we were on the same page... I'm not sure how much of a PITA it would be but I don't think it would have a significant impact on UVs at all, if any. At least from my experience. It might be too much to copy over the morphs yet again though...

More edge loops in the breasts.

As it is large breasts with undercut and gravity/sag will be difficult without SubD morphs. You probably have a preference for petite, as shown by most of your stuff, as do I in general, but it would be helpful for character.

Plenty enough edgeloops in that area for my taste – I'm still using Bella so far, a really lowres figure compared to Toni. Gladly with proper "Holz vor der Hütte" :)

https://adp.spdns.org/BellaImgs/

My opinion: More polygons are always bad for animations. Antonia still gets by with a bit of a struggle. But with realtime it becomes difficult.

adp001 posted at 11:28 AM Fri, 7 October 2022 - #4446078

Plenty enough edgeloops in that area for my taste – I'm still using Bella so far, a really lowres figure compared to Toni. Gladly with proper "Holz vor der Hütte" :)

https://adp.spdns.org/BellaImgs/

My opinion: More polygons are always bad for animations. Antonia still gets by with a bit of a struggle. But with realtime it becomes difficult.

V4 remains the reigning queen of boob morphs.

adp001 posted at 11:28 AM Fri, 7 October 2022 - #4446078

Plenty enough edgeloops in that area for my taste – I'm still using Bella so far, a really lowres figure compared to Toni. Gladly with proper "Holz vor der Hütte" :)

https://adp.spdns.org/BellaImgs/

My opinion: More polygons are always bad for animations. Antonia still gets by with a bit of a struggle. But with realtime it becomes difficult.

Very nice. Not crazy over the nipples but very nice.

A bumpmap could help with that.

Is that Bella of the thousand JCMs? Mankahoo/Ali's Bella?

Yep. I don't care *why* a figure does what I need it to do. Weigthmap, JCM – really, I don't care.

Good job on the undercuts too. Hard to do even on a higher res figure. Must be subdivision.

Subdivision is just 1. No hires morphs.

Still in all my request stands, even just a couple more edge loops would help, evening out the quad spacing with some careful and subtle edge sliding should fix any minor UV stretching. Anyway... it was just a thought that odf probably won't entertain at this point. There's other figures for boob stuff. Kinda throws out my super busty grey alien lass idea but I have that cooking for LF anyway.

What I did: Modfying the UV map a bit. To avoid to big areolas.

"Yep. I don't care *why* a figure does what I need it to do. Weigthmap, JCM – really, I don't care."

Agreed.

I'm not saying it's not possible with Antonia, I've managed to do it with figures with the same quad/loop density in that area. LF, Nova, a few others... it would be nice though. Just a silly idea I suppose. But that's what this thread is about, or at least at surface appearance. I figured I could indulge a request after spending a year looking at a bald chick doing splits lol.

I don't have software envy ADP, you do you. Sounds cool though.

I will say that the UV morphs thing is intriguing... first I've heard of it. Looking forward to seeing your demos of this, or at least the results. First thing that comes to mind is manipulations such as flatten to UVs in Mudbox. Any links you have to better explanations would be appreciated. But that's probably too OT.

Poser 12 allows you to manipulate UV vectors. This makes "UV morphs" possible. I think I will start working on this with Antonia in mind.

You are thinking of uv magnets, adp? 

The Face Texture Converter is a very simple tool to do a sort of uv morphing but, necessarily, in a 3D representation of the 2D environment because that's where the tools are. To project the morph back into 2D it produces an altered texture image. It needs an iterative workflow. Of course a solution directly editing the uv's would be much preferable. Dealing with body part seams will be the challenge.

Anyone with a new Antonia image?

I do have a small request for a change, feel free to ignore it but you seem to take my observations throughout this thread starting a year ago with some consideration (boob topology, eye topology, face morphs in body, split morph, head injection, UDIM etc), many of those we were on the same page... I'm not sure how much of a PITA it would be but I don't think it would have a significant impact on UVs at all, if any. At least from my experience. It might be too much to copy over the morphs yet again though...

More edge loops in the breasts.

Not an unreasonable request, but it is indeed too much of a PITA to adapt her to a new mesh topology (for me, with my current workflow), especially when I already have a fairly stable figure. That's why I fixed all the things that were really bothering me about the mesh in one go. So, I'd put the extra breast loops on a list of potential future changes, maybe for our foretold lord and savior Antonia 2. Everyone is of course free to make and distribute their own modifications.

As it is large breasts with undercut and gravity/sag will be difficult without SubD morphs. You probably have a preference for petite, as shown by most of your stuff, as do I in general, but it would be helpful for character.

Yeah, if I were really keen on large breasts, I'd have given her more loops a long time ago.

Poser 12 allows you to manipulate UV vectors. This makes "UV morphs" possible. I think I will start working on this with Antonia in mind.

Plenty enough edgeloops in that area for my taste – I'm still using Bella so far, a really lowres figure compared to Toni. Gladly with proper "Holz vor der Hütte" :)

https://adp.spdns.org/BellaImgs/

My opinion: More polygons are always bad for animations. Antonia still gets by with a bit of a struggle. But with realtime it becomes difficult.

primorge posted at 7:42 AM Fri, 7 October 2022 - #4446064

I do have a small request for a change, feel free to ignore it but you seem to take my observations throughout this thread starting a year ago with some consideration (boob topology, eye topology, face morphs in body, split morph, head injection, UDIM etc), many of those we were on the same page... I'm not sure how much of a PITA it would be but I don't think it would have a significant impact on UVs at all, if any. At least from my experience. It might be too much to copy over the morphs yet again though...

More edge loops in the breasts.

Not an unreasonable request, but it is indeed too much of a PITA to adapt her to a new mesh topology (for me, with my current workflow), especially when I already have a fairly stable figure. That's why I fixed all the things that were really bothering me about the mesh in one go. So, I'd put the extra breast loops on a list of potential future changes, maybe for our foretold lord and savior Antonia 2. Everyone is of course free to make and distribute their own modifications.

As it is large breasts with undercut and gravity/sag will be difficult without SubD morphs. You probably have a preference for petite, as shown by most of your stuff, as do I in general, but it would be helpful for character.

Yeah, if I were really keen on large breasts, I'd have given her more loops a long time ago

Very true. At this time Antonia is far and away better than any of the resource figures available with poser. I often forget that. Honestly the figure should be included with Poser, that ever cross your mind as a thing?

Very true. At this time Antonia is far and away better than any of the resource figures available with poser. I often forget that. Honestly the figure should be included with Poser, that ever cross your mind as a thing?

It crossed my mind, kind-of. I tried to put myself in Bondware's shoes and came up with lots of reasons why replacing LF with AP as a Poser flagship figure would be a terrible idea. I didn't consider adding her as an extra, but I can immediately come up with reasons why they wouldn't want to do that, either. Anyway, if they wanted, they could. The thing is just, I don't think I would be interested in making any modifications on their behalf, unless it were things that met one of my three criteria - it's fun, it's easy, I want it.

I got through my to-do list and added a character morph (head only) that's been showing up in my gallery for some time. Her name is Annie, Annie Larseworth (hair not included), and her hobbies are reading, gymnastics, vandalism and naked debate club. 

Anyway, second beta coming soon, I reckon.

Cute one

To be a "proper" Poser package the materials would need to be reordered. The VSS materials produce error messages (messagelog) during rendering when Cycles is used. And of course mostly unappealing results.

You might be interested in picking up the low-res Antonia 1.2 for animations and such. You might also be able to copy over some of the new rigging, morphs and such to her if you want.

I am intrigued. How does one make those "UV morphs" you speak of?

Forgot to insert the Image with the meshstructure. I added the image to https://adp.spdns.org/BellaImgs/

Forgot to insert the Image with the meshstructure. I added the image to https://adp.spdns.org/BellaImgs/

Forgot to insert the Image with the meshstructure. I added the image to https://adp.spdns.org/BellaImgs/

glad you like it.

Since I want to switch to Antonia, as I said, I'll probably have to make something with similarly cute attributes for Toni. I think I'll start as soon as the final version of Antonia is available.

I have reproduced the material I made for Poser in Blender. I had to correct the maps with an RGB filter (also works with HSV) and adjusted the intensity values of Bumpmap and Voronoi.

Provided with a decent texture, the morphing is much more fun :)

( rendered with Eeve, realtime, CPU render)

To be a "proper" Poser package the materials would need to be reordered. The VSS materials produce error messages (messagelog) during rendering when Cycles is used. And of course mostly unappealing results.

odf posted at 6:00 PM Fri, 7 October 2022 - #4446113

I am intrigued. How does one make those "UV morphs" you speak of?

Do you really want to make this a topic here in the thread?

Not particularly, but a little hint can't hurt.

The principle: remodeled UV indices can be stored using <figure>.SetCustomData(...). Poser will then write the data to all poser files like it does with standard morphs for example.
A dial created with <actor>.CreateValueParameter(...) activates a Python script (callback) that then does the manipulation of the vertex data.
The associated script can be bound to the loading of the figure using <figure>.SetMeAsStartupScript().

adp001 posted at 6:22 AM Sat, 8 October 2022 - #4446128

To be a "proper" Poser package the materials would need to be reordered. The VSS materials produce error messages (messagelog) during rendering when Cycles is used. And of course mostly unappealing results.

Good point! I'll add some comments in the ReadMe regarding the old material settings that come with the Toni textures.

adp001 posted at 8:38 PM Sat, 8 October 2022 - #4446178

odf posted at 5:22 PM Sat, 8 October 2022 - #4446170

adp001 posted at 6:22 AM Sat, 8 October 2022 - #4446128

To be a "proper" Poser package the materials would need to be reordered. The VSS materials produce error messages (messagelog) during rendering when Cycles is used. And of course mostly unappealing results.

Good point! I'll add some comments in the ReadMe regarding the old material settings that come with the Toni textures.

Wouldn't materials have been better placed in the Materials section? Seems to me somehow more logical to look for a material in the Materials section instead in the Pose section :)

You can install Toni Polygon and remove everything except the texture maps themselves if you intend to use my materials or your own.

VSS materials are based on Firefly render engine technology and unfortunately will not translate well in Superfly.  Take a peek at the Material Room set up and you will see dashed noodle connections between various nodes.  To systematically decipher where the connectors are and what they actually do is a nightmare, and I don't think you would want to spend time updating VSS for Firefly.  Your best bet is EZSkin 3 for Superfly, although some settings need to be tweaked for optimization.

And I agree with adp001, materials should be in the Materials section, not a MATPose file in the Pose section.

I believe that odf intends to respect the original distribution structure that Saintfox provided, which included MATPoses. His suggestion to dump the files, if you desire, within your own Runtime intends to maintain that distribution as he provides it... it's a molehill.

I do however suggest you append Saintfox's textures with files provided by Sainfox for the AP weightmapped version but not included with the 1.2 version. Specifically the makeup files which includes a lip mask. At your discretion.