Why can't they be visible ALL the time? I need to see them, so I can point them at what I want. I want to select them and then look from the right, the left and the top so I can see that they are facing in the right direction. But I have a devil of a time even finding them so I can select them.

I added an area light. Couldn't find it. Looked all around. Turned off the Ground. That didn't help. I zoomed out. I zoomed in. Scrolled all around. Still couldn't find it. I don't know if you can turn off that tan background. Don't know if it would even help. I even set the bloody thing to a solid color, and I still couldn't find it. I finally set the parameters to 0,0,0 and then I finally found it. And it was solid yellow. I select and then turn the scene. Now it's unselected and gone again. I guess I unselected it by turning the world with that globe thing on the left. And now it's gone. I have found that I have to go up to the dropdown on the left in the property settings so that I can find it again. Why can't the bloody lights be visible all the time.

And it seems even worse with this update I just installed today. And the IBL lights seem different too.

I created a scene this morning. I was able to light it to my satisfaction with just the IBL. I got a notice about an update. I downloaded and installed. Decided I wanted to make some changes to my scene. Tried to render with the same lights, and all I was getting was the car headlights. Everything else was black. That usually means that the Ground is visible and it's blocking the IBL. But the ground was off. With this new update, I had to crank the IBL up to 1000% before I was starting to see things. In the version before this 100% was plenty of light. What changed?

So am I missing something with the lights? What can't they be visible all the time like the figures? What's the purpose of them disappearing when you click off of them?

Thanks!

You can turn visibility on and off in each light's Properties tab. It's off by default (for some odd reason).

AmbientShade posted at 5:29 PM Tue, 18 April 2023 - #4462630

You can turn visibility on and off in each light's Properties tab. It's off by default (for some odd reason).

You can, but they do disappear again, especially infinite lights. I don't use ibl enough to know much about them, but they look like infinates on the preview window so I assume they react the same way when moving.

You can't turn off the background but you can change the color. I dislike the default intensely. Each time I set up my startup scene, I always change it to green.

Thanks. I'll try those things.

I also noticed that a group of preset choice for superfly were removed with the latest build. They were called something optitex or something like that. What ever they were, they aren't in the list any more.

I'm not sure what preset choices you're referring to. I know that SreeD was removed from preview in P13, haven't seen any mention for why.

You can also use Frame Selected Object icon to center the camera on whatever you have selected in the scene. It's the 3rd icon over at the top right of the preview window, looks like a ball between two brackets, just past the render buttons.

And you can select lights from the dropdown menu from the top left where it shows what is currently selected. Or select them from the hierarchy menu.

Poser's preferences menu needs a whole lot more preference options.

Here's a trick, select your light, go to the Preview Styles, click on the arrow, and select Object style from the contextual menu.  Now, go to the Texture Shaded globe, and click to make the light solid.  When you select the light from any of the selection points, it will show a solid object rather than a mesh outline.

The Diffuse IBL has an x rotation of -90 Degrees, if you set that rotation to 0 degrees, you will get a lit stage.  I haven't experimented with moving that particular light around for Firefly rendering but I don't think it matters that much because it is projecting the luminosity of an HDRI mirror globe.

hborre posted at 8:02 PM Tue, 18 April 2023 - #4462650

Here's a trick, select your light, go to the Preview Styles, click on the arrow, and select Object style from the contextual menu.  Now, go to the Texture Shaded globe, and click to make the light solid.  When you select the light from any of the selection points, it will show a solid object rather than a mesh outline.

I just tried this in P13 with an area light because I was also going to suggest it but wanted to make sure it actually worked first. The light turned to a solid for a second until I moved the camera then it disappeared again. You have to select something else then reselect the light for it to turn back to solid, and once the camera moves it's invisible again.

Yep, that's the same issue here, once you deselect it, it disappears.  However, on a brighter note, the technique makes it more visible when you do select it thus making it easier to click on it in your scene.

Glad to hear I‘m not the only one who’s annoyed about the disappearing lights trick. It used to be like that with cameras. May still be, I haven’t checked. But lights are much worse because I need to see them all the time.

A few Poser versions back there was a third party script that used to make the lights appear as a wireframe all the time, sadly I am not aware of any such script for the more modern version of Poser.

If I understand right to change visibility, select the light go to element display style, select element display style, Change the Attribute in the balls, you can also change the color on how it shows. I always use this method for point lights then also scale these up so I find em always in a easy way.

hornet3d posted at 4:43 AM Wed, 19 April 2023 - #4462681

A few Poser versions back there was a third party script that used to make the lights appear as a wireframe all the time, sadly I am not aware of any such script for the more modern version of Poser.

Here is a relatively simple script that does pretty much what you describe. To make it actually respond to every click, I had to build it as an add-on. The script works fine, but there seems to be a problem when Poser is closed. Then an error message appears briefly (so fast that I can't decipher it). The script is so simple that I can actually rule out a bug in it. But maybe someone knows more.

The script must be unpacked into the following folder: [PoserInstall]\Runtime\Python\addons
So that after unpacking there is a path named "ShowLightsInPreview". This contains the actual script "__init__.py", which must not be renamed.

After restarting Poser, the script is automatically active.

The installation of an addon from a zip is unfortunately not clearly described (poser13 manual), so it did not work for me.

Download from https://adp.spdns.org/ShowLightsInPreview.zip

Plan_B is to position light at a known XYZ.

This helps when eg a 'broad' spot-light cannot bring up facial features without 'washing out' scene, so needs an additional narrow beam as supplement...

( I fell into Poser 3 via a CAD background, as my FloorPlan + TurboCAD combo could not handle more than very-low-poly static figures... )

For me, the best way to position an area light or a spot light is to use its own cam:

Once the right cam is selected (camera control), select the light, move and turn it around till it's ok.
Perfect for example to position an area near a ceiling but not above... 

Script updated, no more errors. Lights are always visible, except a light is turned off.

Download  from here (source code, not compiled): https://adp.spdns.org/ShowLightsInPreview.zip

I'm sure I posted in here earlier but can't find it now.  Oh well...

ISTR you could parent a primitive to a light, then make the primitive not visible in raytracing.

It's been awhile since I've even started up DAZ Studio, so can someone tell me how the lights are different from Poser's and or better?

I've had other things on my mind.

The solution to this would be to be to draw the lights at a constant size, and have new lights always appear at the center of the scene. They seem to appear at random, and are sometimes so far outside of the camera view that by the time you've zoomed out enough to see them they are now to small to be visible.
There are so many things that we've gotten used to that no one seems to be reconsidering them any more... Wouldn't it be nice if you could e.g. select a bulb object and have an option to add a light in the center of that object? It might still need adjusted, but you wouldn't have to look for it or copy the position of the bulb to the light manually.
(Which reminds me of another issue I have with lights. Because they are not actually visible I need to place them inside of the casting object. Problem is if I make the bulb opaque the light is blocked, and if I turn off "cast shadows" for the entire lamp object then I get no shadows from the lamp socket/lamp post etc. This means every street lamp in my scene needs a separate child bulb object in addition to a child light. Pretty time consuming when you have 50 or so streetlamps in a scene. So it would also be nice to have some way of putting shadow casting lights inside objects without the object that is supposed to be emitting the light blocking it instead.)

moogal posted at 4:12 PM Sun, 30 April 2023 - #4463858

The solution to this would be to be to draw the lights at a constant size, and have new lights always appear at the center of the scene. They seem to appear at random, and are sometimes so far outside of the camera view that by the time you've zoomed out enough to see them they are now to small to be visible.
There are so many things that we've gotten used to that no one seems to be reconsidering them any more... Wouldn't it be nice if you could e.g. select a bulb object and have an option to add a light in the center of that object? It might still need adjusted, but you wouldn't have to look for it or copy the position of the bulb to the light manually.

This behavior was changed in Poser 12. It's still slightly random, but much closer to the center now.

(Which reminds me of another issue I have with lights. Because they are not actually visible I need to place them inside of the casting object. Problem is if I make the bulb opaque the light is blocked, and if I turn off "cast shadows" for the entire lamp object then I get no shadows from the lamp socket/lamp post etc. This means every street lamp in my scene needs a separate child bulb object in addition to a child light. Pretty time consuming when you have 50 or so streetlamps in a scene. So it would also be nice to have some way of putting shadow casting lights inside objects without the object that is supposed to be emitting the light blocking it instead.)

If you want to put a light inside a modeled lamp, rather than just turning the lamp into a light, you would need to make the modeled lamp transparent, like in the real world. If you look at a real lightbulb, it is transparent, or at least translucent glass (or epoxy) with something glowing inside it, be it a filament, a form of gas, or a diode.

The typical problem with placing a light inside a transparent or translucent object is the introduction of graininess or fireflies during rendering.  P13 may have overcome that problem, but I haven't gotten to the point of testing that yet.  You could make the object a separate self-emissive source but again there is a chance of artifacts mentioned in the previous sentence.  But I haven't seen significant evidence of this with P13.

EClark1894 posted at 5:38 PM Thu, 20 April 2023 - #4462897

It's been awhile since I've even started up DAZ Studio, so can someone tell me how the lights are different from Poser's and or better?

I've had other things on my mind.

Studio has the behaviour that the OP was expecting. I think 'it is the way' in all other 3D software! While the 'control handles' appear and disappear when the light is selected and deselected, the light symbol (as an outline) remains visible in the working window.

I had a ticket up on GIT about the disappearing light meshes. It had been up for a couple months but there were other bug priorities for the dev team to fix. P13 Build 234 has the lights fixed now. I've checked them and they are good.

RedPhantom posted at 5:04 PM Sun, 30 April 2023 - #4463861

moogal posted at 4:12 PM Sun, 30 April 2023 - #4463858

The solution to this would be to be to draw the lights at a constant size, and have new lights always appear at the center of the scene. They seem to appear at random, and are sometimes so far outside of the camera view that by the time you've zoomed out enough to see them they are now to small to be visible.
There are so many things that we've gotten used to that no one seems to be reconsidering them any more... Wouldn't it be nice if you could e.g. select a bulb object and have an option to add a light in the center of that object? It might still need adjusted, but you wouldn't have to look for it or copy the position of the bulb to the light manually.

This behavior was changed in Poser 12. It's still slightly random, but much closer to the center now.

(Which reminds me of another issue I have with lights. Because they are not actually visible I need to place them inside of the casting object. Problem is if I make the bulb opaque the light is blocked, and if I turn off "cast shadows" for the entire lamp object then I get no shadows from the lamp socket/lamp post etc. This means every street lamp in my scene needs a separate child bulb object in addition to a child light. Pretty time consuming when you have 50 or so streetlamps in a scene. So it would also be nice to have some way of putting shadow casting lights inside objects without the object that is supposed to be emitting the light blocking it instead.)

If you want to put a light inside a modeled lamp, rather than just turning the lamp into a light, you would need to make the modeled lamp transparent, like in the real world. If you look at a real lightbulb, it is transparent, or at least translucent glass (or epoxy) with something glowing inside it, be it a filament, a form of gas, or a diode.

Yes, but you don't want the bulb to be transparent if it is to be the visible source of the light. What I do is turn shadow casting off for the bulb/globe. My complaint is that it has to be a separate object from the lighting fixture as I do want that casting shadows. I guess I just wish that objects simply did not cast shadows when the light was inside their volume as opposed to outside of it. Here I am using the edge blend on the ambient and transparency channels of the globes to give the appearance of a bulb within.

A reliable check whether an xyz point  is 'inside' or 'outside' a mesh is very costly. Mesh objects are not by definition 'watertight', so the simple 'cast any ray and count intersections' method does not work. On top of that, formally there is no 'inside' or 'outside' unless the mesh is 'watertight', while a labyrinth would effectively have the same effect as watertightness when it comes to casting shadows.

FVerbaas posted at 4:40 AM Mon, 29 May 2023 - #4466650

A reliable check whether an xyz point  is 'inside' or 'outside' a mesh is very costly. Mesh objects are not by definition 'watertight', so the simple 'cast any ray and count intersections' method does not work. On top of that, formally there is no 'inside' or 'outside' unless the mesh is 'watertight', while a labyrinth would effectively have the same effect as watertightness when it comes to casting shadows.

A volume check might be unnecessary. Most Poser meshes are single sided, however. If the light were only blocked by the front side as opposed to both sides, a lamp placed inside a globe could cast through to the outside of the mesh while the mesh still occluded lights placed outside of it as one would expect.

FVerbaas posted at 4:40 AM Mon, 29 May 2023 - #4466650

A reliable check whether an xyz point  is 'inside' or 'outside' a mesh is very costly. Mesh objects are not by definition 'watertight', so the simple 'cast any ray and count intersections' method does not work. On top of that, formally there is no 'inside' or 'outside' unless the mesh is 'watertight', while a labyrinth would effectively have the same effect as watertightness when it comes to casting shadows.

A volume check might be unnecessary. Most Poser meshes are single sided, however. If the light were only blocked by the front side as opposed to both sides, a lamp placed inside a globe could cast through to the outside of the mesh while the mesh still occluded lights placed outside of it as one would expect. (Also, I would have expected this as current behavior from the meshes being single sided)
Of course this would be pointless if forcing "render backsided polygons" made them block light still again.