Hi Poser community - I am returning to render art after a few years of inactivity, and I know a lot of things have changed. The last version I used was PoserPro 2014 - but now, with a completely new system [specs pasted below], I've upgraded to the latest version of Poser 13. I have a ton of runtime items purchased since 2010, and while I understand there are a few issues with certain items that require Firefly, I also understand there are workarounds, and I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I will check out the newest Poser manual and comb through posts while awaiting replies here, but my main question [if you can call it that] is I've noticed an explosion in figures [further iterations and versions of Victoria, La Femme, Genesis, et al], and [of course] tons of new clothing/accessories for each. I was fine with Victoria 4 and Michael 4; all of my attendant stuff is made for them. Now, one of the last improvements innovated for Poser I recall was the ability to conform any prop or item of clothing to any figure.

Is this correct, or did I completely misunderstand?

If so, please: can anyone explain the advantage [or disadvantage] of working with newer figures? I always found the Morphs++ package plenty useful as is for M4/V4 - but there are tons of cool hair, skins, clothing, pose packages, et al, that I'd love to buy if I can use them easily [or at least with little fuss].

Thanks to anyone reading and replying to this - and now to comb through billions of older posts...

System specs:

  Model Name: MacBook Pro

  Model Identifier: Mac14,6

  Model Number: Z178001ACLL/A

  Chip: Apple M2 Max

  Total Number of Cores: 12 (8 performance and 4 efficiency)

  Memory: 64 GB

  System Firmware Version: 10151.41.12

  OS Loader Version: 8422.141.2.700.1

  Serial Number (system):

  Activation Lock Status: Enabled

  Chipset Model: Apple M2 Max

  Type: GPU

  Bus: Built-In

  Total Number of Cores: 30

  Vendor: Apple (0x106b)

  Metal Support: Metal 3

  Displays:

Color LCD:

  Display Type: Built-in Liquid Retina XDR Display

  Resolution: 3456 x 2234 Retina

  Main Display: Yes

  Mirror: Off

  Online: Yes

  Automatically Adjust Brightness: Yes

  Connection Type: Internal

ASUS VP28U:

  Resolution: 3840 x 2160 (2160p/4K UHD 1 - Ultra High Definition)

  UI Looks like: 1920 x 1080 @ 60.00Hz

  Mirror: Off

  Online: Yes

  Rotation: Supported

Sceptre F24:

  Resolution: 1080 x 1920

  UI Looks like: 1080 x 1920 @ 75.00Hz

  Mirror: Off

  Online: Yes

  Rotation: 90

Storage

I removed the serial number from your list of specs. It's often not a good idea to post that publicly.

The genesis figures you may have a hard time getting them to work in Poser. They aren't in a format that Poser can read. There used to be an addon called DSON that you could use to import some versions of Genesis. If you got that when you were using PoserPro 2014, and still have that version of Poser, you can use it to get some versions of Genesis to work. DSON doesn't work with Poser 13 and is no longer available if you didn't get it back then.

La Femme is a great figure. She's weight-mapped and bends well. She has a lot of support. La Femme 2 doesn't have as much content yet because she's new. But she comes with plenty of tools to help you convert things to her. Vicky 4 still works. If you want to use her with Superfly, you'll need to update her shaders. I find it nice to have a choice of figures.

There is the fitting room that can help you convert clothing to different figures.

To clarify, Poser 13, along with a good number of applications, has made it easier to cross-dress select figures, although the process can be a little convoluted at times.  Unfortunately, texturing has not evolved to the point where you can swap between figures; only in DAZStudio do you have that option.  DSON is no longer usable in Poser 13, and there is no intention by DAZ to ever update the app.  So don't bother importing DAZ Genesis and higher versions unless you have imported those figures with PP2014 and saved them into your Library.

Thanks, @RedPhantom - I thought I had done that. Good eye!

I've never used any figures, other than V4 and M4, except very occasionally [and with decreasing frequency] whatever comes loaded with Poser. Have also never used DSON, so that whole concept is a push for me.

Guess I should just study the 'Fitting Room' features in order to be able to use clothing originally generated for other figures on V4 / M4 - is that correct?

hborre posted at 1:16 PM Tue, 14 November 2023 - #4477688

To clarify, Poser 13, along with a good number of applications, has made it easier to cross-dress select figures, although the process can be a little convoluted at times. 

Thank you. Do you specifically mean that I can adapt V4 content to La Femme and/or vice versa?

Unfortunately, texturing has not evolved to the point where you can swap between figures; only in DAZStudio do you have that option.  

To the best of my recollection, all of the skins/custom morphs I have are for V4 [some of which are so old they stopped working by PP 2014], and I believe there are even more that I've yet to get around to purchasing on my wishlist here at Renderosity. Does that absolve, or negate, the texturing issue you mention?

If you intend to strictly use Firefly, you should be fine with older content although the Material Room has been revamped to indicate what connections are legal/illegal for Superfly rendering.  However, there is an optional node that can bridge that render engine incapability gap and simplify the Material Room set up.

If you intend to strictly use Firefly, you should be fine with older content although the Material Room has been revamped to indicate what connections are legal/illegal for Superfly rendering.  However, there is an optional node that can bridge that render engine incapability gap and simplify the Material Room set up.

Just one last issue from my original post that I'm still not entirely clear on, so I will try and pose the question as bluntly as possible:

Can I adapt clothing designed for Genesis to V4, or is that not something that can even happen?

You might be able to but it's not something that will be done simply. Genesis clothing isn't in a format Poser will read. You'll have to export it from Daz Studio and then try to get it to match the shape of Vicky. Then you can either use the cloth room to drape it or the fitting room to make it a conformer

As an example of what RedPhatom is explaining: a G8 dform top, exported as an Obj, scaled down because Aiko3's are clearly smaller the G8's, passed through the cloth room.

Note that I asked Brielle to keep the left strap up to keep it sfw 

Thank you, folks. Seems like an awful lot of work for what may never be acceptable results. I guess another option is to have items custom built by commission via someplace like CGMarketplace. Hypothetically, I could turn around and try to sell anything I then own here at Renderosity, et al, in order to try and break even [because that's an expensive route, I know].

Hm. I don't understand. If the majority of what you have is for V4 and M4, they work just fine in Poser 13. They are my major figures as well, all i have to do is rework materials for Superfly which is usually not a difficult workflow with the help of two scripts, one of which is free.

What, precisely do you think makes your content unuseable?

Rhia474 posted at 12:48 PM Thu, 16 November 2023 - #447780

What, precisely do you think makes your content unuseable?

Nothing. I was wondering if I could easily convert Genesis clothing for V4. I understand there's a workaround for V4/M4 Firefly formatted mats that don't work well with Superfly. Thanks for pointing out those two scripts; would those refer to the 'optional node' hborre refers to above? So far I've only found a dead 404 link via a post on the Poser page on Facebook that explains the process, and a 1hr+ YouTube tut, titled "How To Convert Firefly Materials To Superfly", which seems to be an advertisement for EZSkin, with this comment posted about four months ago:

"As it stands, EZSkin3 has become a little obsolete where Superfly is concerned. There are too many inherent problems working with the original PoserSurface node that negates getting realistic renders with Superfly. My feeling is that Poser will move away from the PoserSurface node and replace it with the PhysicalSurface node that is easier to use and works under both render engines. It has been suggested to Snarly that we need to revamp EZSkin to better utilize current Poser 13 Cycles features to get the best optimal renders."

I'm not going to pretend I know what any of this means, except maybe another rabbit hole. Is anybody able to just tell me what application I'll need to purchase, or point to a specific reference I can learn from?

EZskin isn't obsolete. It actually works quite well and is a great script for quickly updating old skin textures. It was updated a while ago. It's possible the comment was made before that. You can get it here https://cobrablade.net/snarlygribbly/poser.html  with some info about extra shaders here https://www.renderosity.com/forums/comments/4473423/permalink And ghostship's hair shader https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/154081/ghostship-hair-shader-system is great for updating hair. He has some other great shaders for other materials in his store.

EZSkin is updated and is maintained on this site:

https://cobrablade.net/snarlygribbly/poser.html --you want EXSkin 3.2 for Poser 13; this is for skin conversion (and some hair)

The other is GoPhysical:

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/157575/go-physical-for-poser-12

(works for P13 as well as P12--this is for other materials)

There are others, but those two can make old content really good looking again.

Thank you so much, RedPhantom and Rhia474!!

I have been using GoPhysical almost since launch and it works well allowing the conversion of Firefly materials to Superfly by just clicking.  Basically it create a PhysicalSurface and connects the image maps plugged into the existing PoserSurface.  This leaves you with a material that works in both Firefly and Superfly.   You may want to adjust the Roughness and Metallic settings to make metals look their best in Superfly but this is easy enough as GoPhysical  also has a 'Make Metal' button.  The script really is a dream to use and can convert materials quite literally is seconds saving many hours if a lot of materials need to be updated.

I have also used GoPhysical to convert some Blender materials (for content that does not have a Poser option as it is purchased from a non Poser marketplace) to work in Poser and Superfly and again it works well.  The only issue it seems to have is that glass materials and anything with emissions tend to get missed.

There are quite a few included Superfly materials in P13 for glass and emissions that work quite well.

Looks like I've missed a lot of technical innovations since PP 2014. I don't really understand what to do with EZSkin; there are lots of options, and the manual is written as if one is already familiar with all of the functions, so I'm at a loss there. It's too bad - Poser used to be somewhat easy to use.

hornet3d posted at 8:09 PM Thu, 16 November 2023 - #4477828

I have been using GoPhysical almost since launch and it works well allowing the conversion of Firefly materials to Superfly by just clicking.  Basically it create a PhysicalSurface and connects the image maps plugged into the existing PoserSurface.  This leaves you with a material that works in both Firefly and Superfly.   You may want to adjust the Roughness and Metallic settings to make metals look their best in Superfly but this is easy enough as GoPhysical  also has a 'Make Metal' button.  The script really is a dream to use and can convert materials quite literally is seconds saving many hours if a lot of materials need to be updated.

I have also used GoPhysical to convert some Blender materials (for content that does not have a Poser option as it is purchased from a non Poser marketplace) to work in Poser and Superfly and again it works well.  The only issue it seems to have is that glass materials and anything with emissions tend to get missed.

I've been searching for GoPhysical; it's not here at Renderosity, and Google search isn't any help. Can you please link me, or at least point me in the right direction?

Rhia474 posted at 7:12 PM Thu, 16 November 2023 - #4477823

EZSkin is updated and is maintained on this site:

https://cobrablade.net/snarlygribbly/poser.html --you want EXSkin 3.2 for Poser 13; this is for skin conversion (and some hair)

The other is GoPhysical:

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/157575/go-physical-for-poser-12

(works for P13 as well as P12--this is for other materials)

There are others, but those two can make old content really good looking again.

I'm definitely going to have to check this out.

I linked Go Physical above. Let me do it again:

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/157575/go-physical-for-poser-12

eZSkin is not difficult to use at all.  What do you have problems with?

freek2 posted at 5:58 PM Thu, 16 November 2023 - #4477818

Rhia474 posted at 12:48 PM Thu, 16 November 2023 - #447780

What, precisely do you think makes your content unuseable?

Nothing. I was wondering if I could easily convert Genesis clothing for V4. I understand there's a workaround for V4/M4 Firefly formatted mats that don't work well with Superfly. Thanks for pointing out those two scripts; would those refer to the 'optional node' hborre refers to above? So far I've only found a dead 404 link via a post on the Poser page on Facebook that explains the process, and a 1hr+ YouTube tut, titled "How To Convert Firefly Materials To Superfly", which seems to be an advertisement for EZSkin, with this comment posted about four months ago:

"As it stands, EZSkin3 has become a little obsolete where Superfly is concerned. There are too many inherent problems working with the original PoserSurface node that negates getting realistic renders with Superfly. My feeling is that Poser will move away from the PoserSurface node and replace it with the PhysicalSurface node that is easier to use and works under both render engines. It has been suggested to Snarly that we need to revamp EZSkin to better utilize current Poser 13 Cycles features to get the best optimal renders."

I'm not going to pretend I know what any of this means, except maybe another rabbit hole. Is anybody able to just tell me what application I'll need to purchase, or point to a specific reference I can learn from?

The Go Physical script is great for rebuilding older content material shaders.  It gives you a good foundation to build on when converting the shaders.

I have been using Superfly for all my renders ever since it was introduced because of this, if I convert any old materials, I delete the PoserSurface.  It makes the material look a lot cleaner and, for me, easier to understand.

I linked Go Physical above. Let me do it again:

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/157575/go-physical-for-poser-12

eZSkin is not difficult to use at all.  What do you have problems with?

I'm sorry you feel that way. I am by no means a techie, but I took what's in the Readme, and was able to install and use after reading that and the manual together.

For me, Firefly is old and outdated technology, so I switched and am able to use everything I ever collected with converting using just those two scripts. I honestly have more issues using DAZ--albeit it makes me sad that the amount of content for Poser in the genres I prefer is dramatically lessened through the years. LIkewise, while in comparison DAZ prefers seamless plug-and-play, sadly, Poser seems to be moving away from those, t least if you go by what's going on in the forums here and the products available for it.

Wishing you fun and success.

Firefly is still used by some and it may be more suited to the type of art they produce but I don't think I could return to Firefly after using Superfly so long.  Many of the vendors creating content for Poser include Superfly materials.  In such cases there is no conversion to be done as it only requires the application of the Superfly materials using a few mouse clicks.  There are also a number of Superfly materials that come with Poser 13 and other collections can be purchased such as Ghostship  Poser 12  materials from RPublishing - Ghostship2, that work fine in Poser 13, and Super Shaders for Poser 11 by VinceBagna that also works well in Poser 13.  I have not found the conversion of old materials to be difficult and I have converted materials from content I purchased way back in 2000. 

If you try Superbly and do not find it a step up from Firefly there is nothing wrong with continuing to use Firefly, it would however be a shame to stick with Firefly just because it is difficult to use, mainly because it does not have to be difficult.

Having said that I would add that lighting can be very different using Superfly but again, it is not difficult to adapt, I have managed just using trial and error.

Coflek-gnorg is one vendor who includes Superfly materials 

This is a scene using Blender and Firefly materials converted to Superfly

I am not saying for minute that these are fantastic examples of Superfly but examples showing the use of Superfly is possible with minimal effort.

What problems are you having specifically with ezskin?

RedPhantom posted at 11:12 AM Sat, 18 November 2023 - #4477897

What problems are you having specifically with ezskin?

The only step-by-step instruction I could even find to explain any of the functions in this app are in the YouTube video you had commented on, uploaded by 'Poser and DAZ Studio Funhouse', and right off the bat, the first feature used in the app to try and address any of the SuperFly render issues isn't even an option for me somehow: I'm supposed to choose my figure [in this case V4 with an alt skin by Kaleya [Kitty P9 + MATS], open EZSkin, and then select from the 'Preset' dropdown option box, '3C Only Procedurals' - except for me there are no options available and nothing happens when I attempt this: the options don't even present themselves in a dropdown box.

Then, in the 'EZkin3 cycles based plugin documentation' included in the installation package, it states, "Select the pulldown menu in Shader engine and select EZ_CycleSkin(SF)", but the only options I'm offered there are Firefly, and Superfly. So I look to the 'EZSkin v3 user guide' - where everything is in reference to Poser 11 - it instructs me to import legacy definitions, but the procedural instructions are so obtuse I can't understand them [in the first place, I don't even have a copy of PP 2014 to reference, and it only get more muddy and complicated from there]. Finally, the 'Instructions.pdf' are so vague so as to be useless to me as is.

So already, I can't even start with this.

Well, anyway, I guess it's kind of a push, as I'm neither entirely satisfied nor dissatisfied with Poser 13. At least I've got some ability to make renders again with my new rig, but it was basically a +/-$150 update, seeing as nothing I even need it for can be done in Superfly without much extra effort.

It seems as if everything I want to try is just another series of workarounds and buggy plugins. I can still make incredible looking 4K renders with Firefly, and I can't really see where Superfly is such an incredible improvement anyway, at least not with the kinds of scenes I build.

*Side note: It's really unfortunate Daz3D and Poser have such a rivalry that certain D3D products are, for all intents and purposes, disabled for use in Poser, as content creators pretty much stopped designing incredible stuff for V4, and Genesis products are only available for use [in all practical applications] with Daz.

I'm going to give D3D a shot [which also is a steep learning curve - ugh!] Yes, I'm more comfortable in Poser and it would have been great to continue with this platform, but it's really way too much hassle for me with all the extra things I'm supposed to learn just to utilize it, which used to be great fun; it's now just increasingly complex to the point of near-total frustration.

Thanks to all who cared to chime in on this thread.

Rendering in Firefly is supposedly much faster in Poser 13, so there's that.

I still prefer Firefly myself.

*Side note: It's really unfortunate Daz3D and Poser have such a rivalry that certain D3D products are, for all intents and purposes, disabled for use in Poser, as content creators pretty much stopped designing incredible stuff for V4, and Genesis products are only available for use [in all practical applications] with Daz.

You have an alternative: buy a genesis cloth you like, export it as an OBJ, and use it with any character you'd like in Poser, either in the Fitting Room or in the Cloth Room.
As an example: Brielle, an Aiko3, wearing a dform-enabled top, scaled down as Aiko3's as pretty much smaller than a default G8

Good luck.  You will need to invest more time with DS especially since they are trying to move away from Pre-Genesis 8 models and concentrate on G9.  You will need to invest in clothing and pose scripts to convert those files to G9.  In either case, whether you continue using your present content with Poser or invest more time and effort in learning a different app, you will need to realize that tinkering under the hood will be the only way to get satisfactory renders and images.  

Again, good luck.

Thank you, thank you, @hborre - I guess my comfort level of tinkering has mostly been just changing color, surface pattern, or glossiness with nodes in the material room. Oh, also love to adjust cam perspective and focal distances, but that's about it. While I used to make custom cutaway opacity matts for clothing and other things, I haven't even done that in years. But even with just those things, I can still make what I feel are amazing renders, even just with Firefly.

As far as the G8/G9 issue, I don't already own any Genesis figure/prop/clothing, so that's kind of neutral.

Thanks again.

Rendering in Firefly is supposedly much faster in Poser 13, so there's that.

I still prefer Firefly myself.

freek2 posted at 12:55 PM Wed, 3 January 2024 - #4479948

*Side note: It's really unfortunate Daz3D and Poser have such a rivalry that certain D3D products are, for all intents and purposes, disabled for use in Poser, as content creators pretty much stopped designing incredible stuff for V4, and Genesis products are only available for use [in all practical applications] with Daz.

You have an alternative: buy a genesis cloth you like, export it as an OBJ, and use it with any character you'd like in Poser, either in the Fitting Room or in the Cloth Room.
As an example: Brielle, an Aiko3, wearing a dform-enabled top, scaled down as Aiko3's as pretty much smaller than a default G8

Thanks for that! I really hate to ask, but is there a good tutorial anywhere? This has been one of the biggest sticking points for fitting/cloth room conversions: folks keep telling me it can be done, but how? Is it just a question of poring over the P13 manual? Are there any shorthanded tutorials? I mean, I probably don't need to know *everything* in the process just to conform clothing. And then, aren't there lots of adjustment challenges with the converted clothing?

Honestly, almost all of my issues would be solved, basically, if I can easily and effectively convert Genesis content for V4!

This is how I convert clothing using the fitting room. There may ba other ways but this works for me.

1.     Load figure. Turn off IKs. Use Figure>zero figure. (for L’Homme make sure the L’Homme size dial is set to zero.) Hide posing chips/control handles.
 
2.    Load clothing
3.    Move and resize the clothing so it is close to fitting your figure. You might also use the pose dials or scales for individual body parts of the clothing.
 
4.    Make sure your figure isn’t subdivided. With the clothing selected, open the morph tool and don’t panic. (there’s always undo) Create a new morph and call it something unique like custom_morph. It really doesn’t matter what it’s called. It’s a temporary morph.
5.    Select the Loosen fit brush and set the goal to your figure. If you don’t see your figure listed then you probably have it selected and are working with the wrong thing.
6.    Set the magnitude to .1 or .05. The loosen brush is very sensitive and this is the strength of the brush so you want it low. The size is your choice. I usually find the default too small. Use whatever your comfortable with.
7.    Working from the edges of the poke-through inward, stroke brush over poke through. Work only on one side. Later you can mirror the morph. Be patient as you work. Higher poly garments are slower to work with.
8.    Once there are no more poke-throughs go to display>figure style> wireframe (or press ctrl-alt 3) to check for places where the clothing is too far from the figure
 
9.    If you find places that need to be fixed, use the tighten fit brush. Set the Pokethrough margin to about .001or so. The smaller the number, the closer to the figure the clothing will get. .5 is good for the magnitude and your choice of brush sizes.
10.    Stroke the places you want closer.
11.    For tight areas, like between the legs, you can hide the body parts that are in the way.
 
12.    Make sure no parts are touching other parts, like in between the legs. The fitting room may get confused and mix up polys.
13.    Use the smoothing tool for any place the polys are bunching. You may need to use the loosen brush
14.    At the bottom of the morph tool click on mirror and copy the morph from the side you were working on to the other.
15.    Go to display>figure style>use document style (ctrl.alt 0) and look for areas that need touch ups.
16.    When you don’t have any more. close the morph pallet
17.    Save your work. You don’t want to go through that again.
18.    Go into the fitting room and create a new session. For the object choose the clothing you are converting. Make sure the zero figure is NOT checked. Choose your figure for the goal. The zero figure can be checked here.
19.    Ignore all the fitting tools because they don’t work right and the clothing is already shaped how you want it.
20.    Hit create figure button
21.    A window will pop up with a chance to name the clothing. You can use the suggested name or another. Click okay
22.    In the transfer figure popup window, click on the checkbox to deselect everything and then select only the body parts you need. You don’t have to select every part individually. You can select the extremities (neck, forearm, shin, or foot) and everything between that and body will be selected.
23.     Click on select to choose which morphs you want to copy.
24.    If the grouping is similar, you can choose to try to use the original grouping of the body parts, if they are different (such as having other parts) check auto group
25.    Click okay and go back to the pose room
26.    Hide the original clothing and select the new clothing
27.    Go to figures>copy joint zones from and choose the figure you are fitting it to.
28.     Conform and test
29.    Save file
30.    Save the new clothing to the library

Thank you RedPhantom.Excellent,easy to follow tutorial.

Stored for later use, thank you RedPhantom 

This is how I convert clothing using the fitting room. There may ba other ways but this works for me....

Thanks very much, RedPhantom! An issue I recall, however, is that the fitting room is only for Poser figures, yes? I wouldn't be able to fit V4, would I?

no, you can use any figure you can use in poser.

Here's a sample of Genesis 2 clothing converted to v4 using the fitting room.

no, you can use any figure you can use in poser.