Hmm..these things happen. On the game front the entire Falcon 4 team was fired close to christmas as well, when Hasbro 'restructured'. Falcon 4 was to the flight sim community what something like ..oh..Bryce& Poser, or 3DS Max is to the 3D community. THe product that everyone aims for, and the benchmark against which other consumers judge new titles. And it was axed because Hasbro felt there wasn't enough money in the Flight sim market. But..we the players got the development teams last and final patch before they were let go. One day after they released the patch Hasbro fired them all. shrug These things do happen, and there is no accountability to a software company when they release software with bugs, and don't fix them. They are under no obligation to do so. You spent your money on the software as is, no where in you're license agreement is it written that the company will continue to provide support to you for one year after purchase, or six or three months or whatever. There is no such agreement between you the consumer, and the producers/developers of the program. If anything..it is implied..and hoped for by the consumer. Right now, we take the crap and sit and wait and hope it all gets better, because maybe 80% of the program works..and we can work around the other 10%. So WE accept it. Theres no way in hell you would buy a Television if sometimes the brightness control doesn't work..or a Radio that couldn't pick up stations above 100, and say well..i don't adjust brightness that much..or I don't listen to those stations anyway I can accept it. We would NEVER accept that in any other consumer product..WHY do we accept it with Computer Software?? And why then moan and complain, when a company decides that it isn't worth it to them, to spend any further development time supporting a product, or that there are more profitable ventures out there. [continued]

As larger and larger companies that are focussed on other types of products and services gobble up software companies, we will see more and more of this happening. Because these companies are concerned with their bottom line, and EXPECT certain profit margins from their subsidiary companies. If that is the expectation of these large mergers, and we the consumer are the ones getting burnt in the fallout from these acerebral business plans and analogies on the part of executives and consultants; then shouldn't WE the CONSUMER hold software companies and developers, to the same standards of Consumer Satisfaction as everything else? shrug I just had to get that off my chest hee hee :) Catch Ya Rendering! waves

I don't know about the States but in Canada any person or company that sells a product or service that is found to be sub-standard or defective is liable under the Department of Consumer Affairs to make right or replace said product or service. This particularly applies when it is known by the company beforehand that said product or service is defective or substandard. In fact in a class action suit on behalf of consumers some companies asses have been known to be like grass and you know what happens to grass asses. And it grows twice as fast if it is shown that said company had plans in place to discontinue said product or service and had no plans on providing service or an alternative plan to provide such after discontinuing the product or service. I would think that the same thing applies in other countries as well. I'm sure in the States that some individual states have even more little goodies like this type of law. All I'm pointing out here is that THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR X AMOUNT OF TIME just as automobile manufacturers have to supply new parts for a minimum of 10 years after discontinuong a model.

This goes back to the Studebaker fiasco which resulted in this law being passed in both Canada and the States and covers all such doings by a company regardless of the product they sell or service as long as they are still in business and we can infer from metacreations statement that they plan to be in business for some time to come. MetaCreations has clearly showed thier disdain and contempt for the people who brought them to the dance. I say that a good number of people will remember what they seem to be doing to the people they got the 38-40 million dollar cash reserve to tide them over while they make the adjustment to thier new business focus. From now on when I see a site dealing in a metacreation product such as metastreaming I will; 1. Email them and state my disapproval of thier use of a metacreation product and 2. Not visit that site again. It won't make a difference in the grand scheme of things but at least I will be one less person putting a penny in the pockets of the meta creation board of ass*****.

beelzebulb, Corel seems to be able to get away with it??? Just like the rest. DM

True. Corel does get away with it. They all do but the reason is that nobody ever takes them to task for thier practices. All I was pointing out is that there are laws they have to follow and if enough stink was raised maybe the people in power (politicians?) might think about including the necessary legislations to ensure they followed the laws (as in monetary penalties for violation) along with whatever formula they come up with (and they will) to tax us to death on the internet. As long as no complaints are raised they continue on thier merry way impervious to the laws and the rights of the individual. Other companies have eventually been brought to task for thier actions but only after numerous complaints were lodged and could no longer be ignored. The number of people who spent thier hard earned money on these programs deserve more than the total indifference that metacreations has shown lately to thier customers. This is not a company that was going broke or showing consistent losses. They have 38 to 40 million dollars cash in reserve for crying out loud. That money had to partly come from the programs they are dumping. What this shows is that metacreations in the recent hoopla of both Bryce 4 and poser 4 sucked us all down the garden path and now don't want to turn the soil because it s too much effort. They probably knew when they released those programs that they were going to dump them but needed to squeeze every last nickel out of us, the consumer, to set up this move. And if so THAT is where they broke the law because they would have acted in a deceitful manner to gain a profit by devious means (yes, thats how part of the law reads). Anyway, I was just pointing out that there are laws to protect people from this type of business practice but a person (or group of people) have to institute an action against the company suspected of these type of practices.

I sent my grievence (at least the first one) to MC and the mailing list, so you may have seen it. What can we do next? I am in exactly the same position as you and I will not stand for this kind of business any longer. This is why I am a BeOS user. In fact, this deal with MC is going to screw us BeOS users, because there is a BeOS version of Bryce in beta that will now probably never see the light of day. I quite seriously blame this whole industry's problems and corruption on Microsoft. The more a bully gets away with abuse, the more bullies come to the playground to behave the same way. Someone may think it's just a scape goat, but if you've read the DOJ info about them, it's not too hard to visualize MS as being the catelyst and leader in the downfall of business ethics and the whole damn industry's treatment of the people who give them their money! Jace

heya; just a note: we all accept that opened software can't be returned, blah blah blah. if it doesn't work, the license says you accept it anyway, blah blah blah. however, allereirauh is correct. there was a book that came out recently (sorry, cant remember the name), that explained that OTHER laws in place override these practices. in short, you are legally entitled to try out products before you purchase them. (you can try on clothes, you can take a test drive, etc). if you are not able to try them out prior to purchase, you are entitled to an at-home trial period. and if the sweater doesn't fit, and the engine doesn't turn over, and your software doesn't do what you expect it to do, you are entitled to return it for a refund. the no return policy and the 'you agree to keep this, no matter what' licenses are really not enforceable (so says the book; i'll try to get the title for you), and are only stopping us because we are used to it and complacent about it.

"The Software Conspiracy: Why Companies Put Out Faulty Products, How They Can Hurt You, and What You Can Do" by Mark Minasi check out the reviews for more details.

im sorry, that isn't the one i was thinking of, though it looks interesting. "Bad Software: What To Do When Software Fails" by Cem Kaner, David L. Pels