In the Freestuff Area, I was under the impression that the "Download" button was supposed to link directly to the download file, not a Web Page. If this is the case, why are some contributors like Poser City and Greybro allowed to violate this policy on a regular basis, and not only link to their site, but restrict downloads to their REGISTERED members. I think Renderosity should either enforce their policies consistently or amend them. I don't think they should favor one contributor over another.

Although I don't like the having to be registred thing I don't mind having to go to a webpage first for the most part. it actually allows a lot of items in freestuff that can't be there otherwise since the ability to link from most free webpage hosts is non existant these days. I have to just post a link in the forum to all my stuff since I can't directly link anything and I am sure a good portion of people don't know I even have freestuff.

I've been told that if a website doesn't allow direct links to its files, then the download link will lead to the webpage which hosts it. I'm not sure about the registered member restriction, but I'm about 95% sure Poser City is not the only one to do that. But, I will admit that as I have not ever uploaded an item to the freestuff, I am not on intimate terms with the TOS for them.

As for favoring a contributor over another - the uploads are automatic - they are not reviewed. In any case, I would think that cross-community support would be a good thing. While I spend most of my time at Renderosity, I do like coming across other communities that support Poser & 3D art - most of the ones I find are thru here via free stuff. That some require membership doesn't bother me if they are free. :)

Lucy is correct, We spend a lot of time keeping a watch on the forums and Galleries. So the freestuff doesn't get patrolled as extensively. We rely on our members to say something when they see something they don't like or might violate our policies. We allow a little flexibility because some people can't link directly to a file, due to their host not allowing it. But the button should get you to a web page that's got the file listed on it somewhere. Without needing to search the entire site. ScottA

"That require membership doesn't bother me if they are free." Think again. Sites are asking for your information for a reason. They are most likey selling your information to spammers to help support the site. Pinto

That is my point too - I have never objected to linking to a page that clearly points to the related item in the link - but to offer a "false" link to a page that contains NO download, just a lure to a membership application - I feel is an abuse of this Renderosity area.

I agree, the main problem with the link going to the register page is that there's the possibility they may sell or redistribute your e-mail address to bulk e-mailers. So you may have to trade off the benefit of a free Poser item with an increase in spam in your mailbox. If people have reason to believe that the guy with the register page is selling or redistributing e-mail addresses, he's going to want to prove he isn't doing it. Maybe it would help to have a statement somewhere on the guy's web-page that he's not going to be selling or redistributing e-mail addresses. Then he would have to avoid breaking that pledge, whether by acts of ommission (allowing the server owners to harvest the e-mail data without his knowledge) or commission (periodically sending his e-mail database to bulk e-mailers).

Pinto - I realize you don't know me but please don't assume that I am as naive as to not read a TOS.
nyar1ath0tep - it is stated on the sign-up page that they won't sell or give away your info.

Poser City is an up-and-coming community - much like Renderosity, 3D Commune, and many others out there.
As a Poser City member I get my downloads directly from there, but I do understand the round-about way of getting membership is perhaps not the best way. Ya can't fault a webmaster for wanting to garner traffic and membership.

In any case - think about it - even if the link had gone directly to the page that has the download - and you had clicked on it to download - as a non-member (or a non-logged in one) you may have been prompted to either log-in or join if the webcommunity or site had been a member's access one only.
I dunno - that's just my laid back, got bigger things in life to worry about attitude. ;)

They changed the guidelines a few months back to allow linking to pages that files are on (it was announced), if the links are going to a page other than the one hosting the file that would, I think be a violation. They do not however allow linking to what they consider "competitor's" sites, and those who linked to 3-D arena were asked to remove the links, even though in some cases this was the only way they could offer the files as we host them right on site for those who needed it. As long as Poser City never opens a store then Roity will probably be ok with linking to them but according to the TOS they shouldn't allow linking to a log in page, ony the files page. So in this case it is an abuse IMHO

Just double checked - made sure I wasn't logged into Poser City and then went to the pose downloads here in 'rosity. After clicking on the button it took me right to the page the download is on & upon clicking the link to download the file, it began. It didn't take me to a log-in page. I don't know if it was like that previously or if Grey has changed it, but that should suffice for what Scott spoke of.

How about the ones that link to the front page of their website and you have to go 3 pages deep to find the page where the download is...I think that is going too far.

I've downloaded all the Nerd backdrops at Poser City without ever signing up for anything.

Aureeanna - those are those ones that Scott was speaking of that you should report to the admins.

Lucy Fur, In the Dot-Com collapse, one of the major children's sites went down. One of the things they were most adamant about on the site was that personal information would NEVER be sold. When there finances were getting thin the very first thing on the auction block was the data base of personal information. Pinto

Pinto - and that means what?? That because that children's site did that that I should not become a member of Poser City? That every site that requests/requires a membership is going to sell off the info? If so, then why are you here??
If you don't want to be a member due to fears of your information being distributed, then hey - don't join up.

Attached Link: http://www.posercity.com

Hey, Wow. Amazing. Obviously ronstuff has made this judgement on Poser City and never really looked into our site. In fact, all of the downloads are made available to anonymous users a week after being posted. So, there is no requirment to signup in order to get our free downloads. Is it encouraged by offering the latest downloads to members only for a week or so? Of course it is? What's wrong with that? Our site is strictly a community at this time with no commercial element whatsoever, though at some point we'll likely have a small store. At the time I set this up, there was plenty of precedent for this on Renderosity. Pinto's suggestion that "They are most likey selling your information to spammers to help support the site." really irritates me, frankly. All the support the site needs comes from my wallet. Exactly one set of eyes sees your email info when you signup at Poser City. Those would be mine. No information is sold or even revealed, period. If Renderosity asks me to stop what I'm doing with regard to linking to the new downloads at Poser City, that ask you to login, I will. Until such time, I will continue to offer them as I'm doing now and hope that you, ronstuff, and anyone else who feels I'm abusing the freestuff policy somehow, could see my point of view. I am GIVING away Poser freebies.

Another abuse is now I get more and more cookies that want to install on my computer. ALmost every page in freestuff ask me if I want to install a cookie for one item or another. My firewall is very restrictive AND It is not fair to have cookies from free stuff.

nitreug - that is a source of distress from many places - not just Renderosity & Poser City.

Attached Link: http://3-darena.com

Greybro, as long as the files link directly to the pages there shouldn't be a problem, but in the case of 3-D Arena the artists were linking to their very own FREE STUFF in the free section of the site, I host those files for the artists and had to stop allowing direct linking because it was costing me hundreds of dollars in bandwidth. So the solution seemed simple, they could link to a page that had only their freestuff, no need to access the front page at all.

TPB at 'rosity here decided that we were competition and asked one artist to remove the links and others did so as well when that occured and it was in the forums, before the admins asked as they actually just told the artist it would be deleted.

So when you open a store you will be considered competition and asked to remove the direct linking. I never did get an answer though to my question of what constitutes competition, I assume it is the store. We link to the 'rosity store all the time in our magazine and they seem to think that is ok....

I also have a store on my personal site and they think that's ok too....

In our case it worked in our favor, the number of emails I have received by those who felt that it was an unfair decision have been great. Now if the item reviewed is sold in both 'rosity and DAZ we link to DAZ, who also links to our reviews (gasp on a possibly competitive site).

That sounds a bit snippety, it isn't really, it has benefited us and I believe that one should follow the rules in someone else's home (and maybe learn from them). However, I'll be interested in seeing what happens when you open a store as well.

:-)

I am GIVING away Poser freebies. That's bloody well is not enough, you have to give it away on your knees, offered on a silver platter. Don't you know!! Gee, if something FREE is not to your liking, be it the manner it is offered or the item itself, just move on! It's not as if he linked to a porn or warez site! THAT, you should report and possibly publicly castigate! Otherwise, just IM an admin and ask if something is as it should be. So if directing you to html pages so you can possibly view ads and/or sign up for membership to INDIRECTLY pay for those freebies ANNOYS you, just chalk up that site as a waste of time, and that site will THANK you because you're not wasting their bandwidth by downloading FREE stuff from people you don't APPRECIATE anyway! Oh, my hackles. Sorry Scott if this makes the leap to c&d :( It got my flashpoint.

OK, I'm gonna get wailed on for this, but it REALLY needs to be said. I know this doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to an awful lot of people. The most blatent abuse of the freestuff area, and any other site that offers free downloads, comes from the members of this site. I see more bitching and moaning about free items, and the sites that offer them, than any other forum I've ever visited. Fer crissakes people, listen to yourselves. You are being given something for free, and yet you find reason to complain? If you don't want to comply with the conditions of use or download for the item, then don't download it; but where the heck do you get off complaining about it?

Attached Link: http://www.posercity.com

Yes, the anti competition stance seems sort of unwaranted and silly. A ccording to our monthly poll, which this month begs the question "Which online store do you buy the most products from?", Renderosity is the second largest in sales. Interesting and thought provoking in light of your comments. http://www.posercity.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=NS-Polls&file=index&req=results&pollID=4&mode=&order=&thold= Careful, that's a direct link to Poser City. Don't worry, it doesn't require membership. :) I'd be glad to link to your site and any of your reviews as well as exchange banners.

Cake One Planet-3d.com In Depth Arts Digital Babes HappyWorldLand The 3D Comic Collective Archetypal Visions Baumgarten Enterprises Virtual Lands Chemical Studios PropsGuild Roy's Poser MAX Tutorials Brycetech Windows To My Soul JCH Poser Page Yeah I would Also like to mention that certain websites are getting the frount page here, Seem alot of them are moderators of renderosity, hmmmm

My point has nothing to do with these sites being unfair to anyone in the list, My point is based on he fact that I do not see alot of other sites getting posted on the frount page to get as much attetion as these sites do an I wonder if the owners of those pages ar moderators here?.

Attached Link: http://www.posercity.com

Ummm, Hey where do I sign up to be a moderator? :)

Well First you might want to find out what a moderator is all about first, nd do you have the time to sit at your computer a few hours lookng for trouble topics? Then you might want to think what forum you want to moderate and if there is an opening there. I could never be a moderator I am too opinionated and would mke a harsh no bones about it moderator. I also dont want to sit around bored lookng for trouble makers.

Attached Link: http://www.posercity.com

Hehehe. I was totally kidding. I don't want to be a moderator. Running PCity uses up all my free time.

love you april! lol meshmagick, I am not a mod here...I do not have a store here..and I dont kiss anyones ass to get that link on the front page. Brycetech is just a site..a 3d site..for the 3d community. The literally 1000's of hours spent in its making are what puts it on the front of any site in the links..people go to check it out, read a tute or two, play driven, or just shoot me an email to chat. shrug not sure how I got pulled into this scratching head BT

Wow! Maybe I should build me a website if I get special dispensations like that! You guys shoulda told me. ;]

Mesh_Magik, the Web Ring site ordering is handled completely automatically by a script that runs nightly. You seem to be insinuating that Renderosity is cheating is members from positions in the Ring and handing them to it's moderators, which is totally untrue. Russell

I just have to say that I'm grateful for the free stuff that is distributed over the internet. Some sites ask you for info before you can grab their freebies. It is your own free choice to give em that info or not. There's no point in bitchin' about it. Just take it or leave it. That's my two cents...

Greybro - and allies, pleas dont git yer panties in a twist. Err too late for that, huh? Well - maybe English is not your first language, so I can understand that you might not know the proper definition of the term FREE. It means (in part) "without consideration, unbound, unrestricted, and without obligation". It does not just mean "no monetary payment" as you seem to think. Requiring a registration is the same as requiring a "fee". You are asking for a "something" in exchange for your item, therefore is is NOT FREE. The rest of the ranting about people who link to a front page is just a smokescreen to cover the real issue. While it is indeed annoying to have to hunt for the "free" item, at least is is still free, and qualifies as "freestuff". Posting an item in the Renderosity "freestuff" area and then requiring a registration (regardless of your motive or intent) is clearly a DECEPTION, and an abuse of the term "free". Period. If the rest of you dont mind being decieved, that is your business. If you dont mind false advertising, that is your business too. But don't start whining when you wake up one day to find that all your "freedoms" and "rights" are eroded away to meaningless tokens (like in many countries), because it is complacency like yours that causes the erosion. And it always begins with something small - even trivial, but it never stops there if someone doesn't speak up and do something about it. I have nothing against Poser City, and in fact I wish them well. However, I think they have crossed a line which will encourage even greater abuses if Renderosity does not address the issue now.

No ronstuff. Where have you been living? - generally, in the US, the term "Free" is most commonly used to mean something that is given away for no additional money. No cash. We are all aware that dictionary definitions and common usage often differ. In this culture, many things are still considered and referred to as "free" even when some nominal form of consideration is required. i.e.: - enter the free drawing by sending us your name and address. - join us for a free luncheon and listen to the sales pitch / sermon / campaign speech, etc. - buy one, get another free. - stop in our store to pick up your free... whatever. The examples are numerous. In fact, it is difficult to find an example of something that is advertised as "free" that conforms to your interpretation and does NOT require at least some form of consideration or exchange. Mr. Webster not withstanding, common usage clearly differs from your limited definition -- but then perhaps this is understandable if English is not YOUR first language. (sorry, nothing personal ron, just no tolerance for sophomoric debate techniques)

Attached Link: http://www.3dmodelz.com

I think certain people, (and I won't mention names,as I have no desire to get involved in personal attack and retaliation) have missed the point, and are applying selective blindness to parts of this arguement. Greybro has pointed out that free stuff on his site is exclusive to members only for the first week of its release. And then it's available for anonymous download. With a site that is growing fast, I don't see how Greybro can put a link to each and every download. I know we can't, because we have over 200 free downloads, and surely if we linked to each and every one, that would constitute spamming, which I'm damn sure is not allowed under 'Rositys TOS. As for the competition issue, we will soon have an operational store. This is not to try and steal the market from Renderosity, Daz, 3dcafe or anyone. The purpose of our store, is to fund the massive amount of web space and bandwidth that a site such as ours requires. This is because we host all our own downloads. And the 50% commission is just a teeny bit steep, that effectively means we've got to sell twice as much, just to realise the same amount. Therefore, to get at the 200+ free models that we have, we have to send people to our site to browse for the download they are looking for. However, our link in the free section states "200 free models, free textures and more". So you can't honestly believe that would link to A (singular) file......? As for Greybro, I personally see nothing wrong with what he's doing. To quote an earlier comment, if you don't like what you see, then move on....it's only a click away.

What April said....

Attached Link: http://www.posercity.com

I've already stated **"In fact, all of the downloads are made available to anonymous users a week after being posted. So, there is no requirment to signup in order to get our free downloads. "** in my earlier post. You should get your facts in order before you go on the WAR path. I especially enjoyed this line. "Greybro - and allies, pleas dont git yer panties in a twist. " Hehehe. That's real cute. The childish insults don't really bother me. But, the likening of the way I'm linking my freebies to the eroding of ""freedoms" and "rights" is just to much. ronstuff, dude, take a step back and chill out. I'm just trying to share some stuff here. We're not stamping anyone with the mark of the beast on signup. Geesh!

Any FreeStuff link posted to Renderosity that requires a registration to download the item will be removed and the poster warned. Russell

Attached Link: http://www.posercity.com

Hipocracy. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks Russell. It is the right thing to do. Nance - I've always respected your comments, and I think in this case you (like many) are caught up in the moment, and are taking this personally. I'm trying not to, in spite of the slurs and innuendo in some of the posts - which are clearly intended to be incindiary. I'm not flaming anyone, I'm just sticking up for some basic definitions, that some would rather bend to their own interpretation. It may all appear innocent on the surface, but what about the next guy that comes along and tries to push the definition a bit farther? He will cry "foul" by pointing to this example, if it is allowed. Then there will be another and another, and before you know it, the "Freestuff" area will become a haven for shills, come-ons and maybe even malicious code. Don't think for a moment that it can't happen. And I hardly think that standing up for what is right and fighting to protect something that is good from corruption is "sophmoric". Greybro - here's another word you should look up in a dictionary - "Hipocracy" (sic)- if you don't find it try "hypocrisy"

P.S. Greybro - you should thank me for all the free publicity ;) I think I'll run over and register at Poser City now!

Just wondering.......... how would "Land Of The Free" and "The Free World" stand up to the aforementioned dictionary definition of free?

andix - if you want the full definition - you'll have to look it up yourself. If you do, you will discover that it holds up just fine in its proper context, thank you.

I'll have to wait until I've finished laughing to participate further. Don't kid yourself.

... (waiting for an intelligent response) Adjective: intelligent 1) Having the capacity for thought and reason especially to a high degree 2) Possessing sound knowledge 3) Exercising or showing good judgment 4) Endowed with the capacity to reason

Attached Link: http://www.posercity.com

The only one getting abused here is yours truly! You know, I could blow up and drop out of Renderosity like I've seen so many folks do when they felt they've been slighted by less than even handed treatment. And it has happened repeatedly in the year or so since I've been a part of this community. But, I have to ask myself if anyone would benefit from that. I'm one of 70,+ to R'osity, so they certainly wouldn't miss me or my small contributions. My own site would certainly lose some traffic that my freebies here generate. And the site users who've enjoyed my few contributions would miss any future release. For these reasons, I'll stay on at this time, even though I feel I've been singled out unfairly. It's actually part of a disturbing trend that I've recognized here. I can find a dozen examples at any given time of sites linking to their front page for all their freebies. If what I've done is wrong,then that is equally as wrong. So, on that logic you might as well delete half of the items on free stuff and warn half the authors. I'm not sure at this point if I'll contribute anymore freebies or not. But, nevertheless, the powers that be have spoken. The login requirement at www.PoserCity.com is lifted at this time. I'd still like to get my warning email though, so I can plaster it all over my site. Any press is good press. Thanks for the traffic ronstuff.

"And I hardly think that standing up for what is right and fighting to protect something that is good from corruption is "sophmoric"." - In this case, it was just the tactic or "technique" I intended to be critical of, not you, or your position. Apologies if my aim was a tad broad. parry, feint, lunge...

This is all such a load of crap. 'Rosity is getting a rep as a nasty place to hang out, and this is the kind of stuff that bears it out. I've been a member here for a while but I haven't/don't speak out much on the forums and I've just gotten into using the chat functions, mainly because I didn't feel I had much to contribute. However, I have GREATLY appreciated the freestuff area(s), and do so even more now that things are tight in my area. I've been working on textures and other things to post in the Freestuff area, but it will probably mean linking to my site because it's hard to find a free site that allows direct download linking anymore. People have used and abused such sites to the extent that it's no longer feasible. Look at what happened to some of the bigger freestuff sites. Most have had to go to a paid membership or restricting their access. A lot of those sites that make you dig around or require logins do it because they have to. And it's usually worth it because you can find other goodies while you're looking. Don't wanna mess with it? Then don't. NO ONE is asking you to log in or dig around. When they post to Freestuff, contributors are saying, "Hey, if you need/want this, I've got it and you can have it." If they have the money to throw away on bandwidth for a direct link, cool. But don't bust anyone's chops because they aren't rich or don't have access to free server space and bandwidth. I'm watching what happens here closely because while I want to give back to the community, I can't afford to spend money on it. If that means I have to direct you to my site for the download and 'Rosity is giving people problems about it, I'll have to post elsewhere, which will suck. 'Rosity was where I found all of you guys and got started on the 3D stuff. I'd hate not being able to share with you all because someone can't figure out why free has a lot of different meanings. In fact, by the definitions given above, ronstuff, no one 'giving stuff away free" could put limitations on it, or copyright it, or anything else. Above all, remember that people are watching what we say and do. It influences the community we play in, so play nice, everyone. Please.

It means (in part) "without consideration, unbound, unrestricted, and without obligation". It does not just mean "no monetary payment" as you seem to think. Does "unbound, unrestricted" mean you expect NO limitations to the usage of the freestuff you managed to download? "Hey, if you need/want this, I've got it and you can have it." It's just getting harder and harder to share stuff - one side you're getting hammered by your $ervice provider, the other side people abuse you for not sharing it on their terms. Then some move to the marketplace cos they'd get hosting that way, then get hammered for selling stuff that are "freestuff quality" because naturally people only give away substandard stuff for free (sarcasm alert.) Every week there's a new rule to restrict the freedom to share around here. There's no loss there, I'm sure. (drama alert:) Eventually we're going to be forced to wear a scarlet letter F.

I agree with Jewell. A flame war is fund to watch when it involves the powerful (moderators) against the powerless (users). I wanted to toss my 2 cents (U.S.) in. The main problem I see is that the offerings in question are not free at all. They require a prior purchase of software/files - in this case nerd's backdrop (and poser, but I'll give you that one because of the nature of the site). They therefore violate the statement It requires me to purchase an item. Further, many of the items in the freestuff area oblige me to do the same. They are just thinly veiled advertisments (SPAM) for the item creators. Additionally, a vast majority of these "free" items have terms of use that limit my freedom to build on a free offering, by altering, sharing, repackaging or editing. These items are actually copyrighted! To use this item I must exchange my freedom to create and express myself! That is substantially more than an email address that I can discard like yesterday's socks. I move that these items be struck from the freestuff area as they clearly violate the definition of free as stated here. I am more interested in what the actual terms and conditions for uploading to the free area rather then definitions being tossed around. I am also concerned about the adherence to the DCMA and how this impacts the free area (I am not impressed with this little piece of strangulation er regulation. I urge you all to read what is really in there and read some non-RIAA material (with such jems as "Are Record Labels Greedy?") on its implications both good and bad. - but this is another issue) This may have been sarcasm or it may be my real opinion. I do think that the links to the backdrops need to be updated to reflect when they move from free to membership (if that is ther case). The entry into the site is a bit confusing and should be fixed. If there is a freestuff policy, then it should be reviewed and ammended to reflect the intentions of the free stuff area and the area should be maintained. PS: What assurances do I have that any site in trouble won't sell me down the river. When a company gets bought out the contracts are not always honored.

I am sorry, those involved in the debate are not all moderators- I apologise for this mistake. I hope someday to contribute a free cane or something (or sell it for .50 if I can't find a host.)

Careful Ron, you're bordering on pesonal attack there. While you have your oft-quoted dictionary to hand, you may like to look up "Irony" and "Sarcasm", as these both appear to be words that while you may know the meaning of them, you appear to have absolutely no grasp regarding their application. To coin a phrase, you wouldn't know either if they came up and bit your arse. As for intelligence, DON'T lecture me on the usage of English. Because it IS my first language, unlike you, who uses a bastardised, dumbed-down and usually misspelt version.