I know I'm supposed to be grateful for all the "free stuff" on Renderosity, but that gratitude begins to evaporate when I click on a free stuff item and I am led through a long series of "click here" buttons to go through several pages of stuff just to get to the download I want, and often cannot get it when I get there because the download requires some "plugin" or other which I don't have the current version of. Reminds me of Amazon and their music "samples" which I could listen to, except that my version of "RealPlayer" is only v.5, not v.8, which is now required. Where are we going with this mania?

I understand it not being a simple point and click shot... But I don't mind them taking me to their sites at all, if someone is generous enough to spend time and effort to give us something away for free we should be willing to make a few 'clicks." Small price to pay for what it takes to do some of this stuff. If you don't like it, not to sound rude, don't. I've never ran into a thing where I had to download a 'plugin' before. I feel we should be grateful for anything we get.. the popular stuff eats bandwidth like crazy and there is more than one person in our forum who has MORE than paid a lot so she could give her stuff away. Anz

I usually link directly to the item in question, unless there is a need to set up a scenario where students need to analyze more than just a simple TCP session; even then, I will only link to the downloads page. For others, sometimes their hosts require indirect downloads, and sometimes, folks just want to show off their HTML skills. I don't mind personally (I use pop-up killers), but I do know where you're coming from when you're forced to put up with pop-ups and other distractions on your way to the goodies :) /P

My bugbear is "free stuff" that is not usable in commercial renders. Just recently Ive inventoried my Poser stuff and found about 30 items were not allowed to be used in commercial renders. Now I dont do commercial stuff, but Ive realised its a minefield if you do. Imagine having to e-mail 20 or more people to get permission or arrange payment. The contributor has the absolute right to set whatever terms he wishes but I would warn any commercial artists to watch their step with the free stuff.

Routledge: I hear you man... that's why I stick with the GNU GPL licensing - it allows unlimited commercial use, so long as my files put to that particular use are kept open-sourced. If you're just doing commercial artwork, no sweat. (that was real simple, wasn't it? :) If you're including the files themselves in a package for sale or for free, go for it - you just have to keep those particular files (and your modifications to those particular files, including any .dxf/.3ds/.br5 source files) open and available to the public without cost. Not all that complex once you get used to it :) /P

I hear what you are all saying, and I appreciate free stuff as much as anyone else, but what I objected to in my original message was being led to another site (okay so far), then to yet another page full of non-relivant information, then to another to get the "free download", at which point I'm informed that I need "xyz" plug-in to get this, etc. That's the kind of thing I object to, not to free stuff contributors showing some of their other stuff. There's a fine difference between saying "hey look what I'm selling" and saying "hey, you don't have the plug-in's to get this, tough lucK" after five minutes of going through web pages.

Here Here Ron..... on both counts.. but especially what's for what.. and Pen about the liscensing... I agree completely. It is an issue when you're doing stuff, keeping track of who did what and whats commercial or not. Any products I'd put out would have to be free for wahtever simply because of that. I don't want someone reselling my model but I also don't care if someone uses a peice of clothing on a picture they sell somewhere. Right now I'm writing and illustrating a game manual that will be over 200 pages most likely. I plan on just letting it be free, but the fact is also my options are so limited because I don't know where I got everything I have. :Grins: When I first got poser I downloaded every freebie I could find and my directories are more convoluted then I like to imagine. I know what I've bought (thank god for Daz and Renderosity remembering this stuff on their account pages) but the mere idea of sorting out everything else.... shudder. Ah well... free is free.......... :grins: Anz

I'm actually with FaerieGurl on this one, Ron... if it's your site, you should do what you want with it. OTOH, I agree with you that if you're going to advertise something, convenience is a common courtesy, and I try to abide by it. My own situation is a little weirder - the website runs on school property. In Utah. Therefore, I'm pretty much stuck with the iron rule of keeping nude artwork, or any hint thereof, off the site; it is being paid for by the state taxpayer and not by me, and offending them would surely mean the end of the site. I solved the problem by not posting any artwork (aside from item preview images) there at all, at least until I can set up something where my own artwork can be posted without the restrictions. /P

What irritates me about free stuff are the people who ask for e-mail for commercial use and never answer it. If you aren't going to answer e-mail, then don't give away your stuff with a commercial clause that calls for e-mail. Other than that, if it's free I am not going to complain, no matter how many links or hoops or foreign languages I have to wade through to get an item. Not everyone has an unlimited bandwidth host provider that allows them to give away free stuff up the wazoo. The more bitches I see about free stuff, the less I feel like giving away free stuff.

Just to add my two cents to this... Canadian so guess it's not worth a lot ~s~ Anyway. I love the freebies and the artists that provide them. I have personally thanked many of them. I do ebook covers and never know from day to day what I'll need. Sometimes I will need something obscure and buying a model for a one shot deal would have had me in the poor house long ago. I've get paid very little so far what I do, but it's still considered "commercial renders" so I'm very careful about the freebies I pick up. I will dance through any hoops the artist has if I want the model. I don't mind going to their site. It's usually inlightening. The only complaint I could have is not knowing if I am able to use it freely in renders before downloading. I always read the readme's carefully and if it doesn't outright say I'm able to use in any render I delete it no matter how much I like it. I don't want to forget somewhere down the road. Like someone said, in the beginning I downloaded everything I could get my hands on. Having to reformat the HD a couple times was a good way to clean everything out. Now only stuff I'm sure of is in my Poser. Anyway, a big thank you goes out to all who supply freebies. A lot of them have had to do things different because of their server restrictions. Rather than just saying to hell with it and leaving us high and dry they still manage to do it. I'm sure not going to complain. Thanks.

Can't argue with that... My comprehension of French and Italian have gone up considerably since I first registered here, and couldn't speak either language to save my butt :) I think the reason e-mails don't get answered is because the address had most likely changed, hence I point to the GPL, which hasn't changed since 1985.

As far as I'm concerned, Ms_Outlaw, being Canadian only adds to your credibility. After all, you live next to that country governed by that unelected maniac... Okay, I'll stop being political. For my bit I do download quite a few freebies, and I never mind being taken to another website. I will give up if the entire site is in Japanese (so I get a string of ?????????Poser????? hr2???????????LOT OF GIRLS!!!!!?????????), but by and large, I'm taken to a well-constructed site that I will generally bookmark and visit again later. FaerieGurl, I've been to your site, and it's one of these. I've actually found stuff I wouldn't have found otherwise had I not been brought to a site by a freebie: other freebies, tutorials, or galleries. Now, there is a limit, and if anyone has a link to some porn site that creates 67 popunders for every window you close (this after you clicked the link saying 'tell me more about how I can help provide clean water to third world countries') I will force quit the browser and never have anything to do with that site again ever, and serves them right, too. Nudity: Personally, I think if someone is serious about using Poser and being part of the online community, they are just going to have to tolerate artistic nudity, full stop. One cannot go to art school without viewing nudes. One cannot visit Venice without seeing nudes all over the place (statues, I mean). One cannot bathe without being exposed to nudity. Geesh! Just deal! (I have little tolerance for prudishness).

Well, there was slightly more to the Thorne story than "just a bunch of moral majority types", but we ll let that one go, since it has no relevance here. I only have one complaint about the freebies and it has nothing to do with the system set up here or the people who provide them. It's the service providers that make our artisians set up three or four pages just for ads to get to the freebie. Now Im pretty tolerant of having to go through a few pages to obtain an especially cool model (and Ive managed a pretty good instinct when it comes to navigating the Japanese sites as well -- practice, practice, practice), but when its something that comes up because the service provider is sticking it in, I tend to get just a tad testy. I know that advertising is becoming more and more of a fact of life on the web these days, and I get a real laugh out of places (like the now gone Cyber Sites) that restrict its members usage on the personal pages while spending bandwidth on animated banners that take more than a dogs lifetime to get in place. Frankly, if I have to wade through four or five pages of ISP ads, then the freebie isnt worth my time, sorry. Again, this isnt a slam against the modellers or texture artists here.

this topic has run off in all directions but getting back to ravenfeeder's original complaint, i think it can be fixed if the renderosity freestuff had more info so that you see immediately what you require to use the free stuff. and other info besides. there's already a request for this in the community ideas forum. i think they'll get around to it but are very busy with higher priority stuff. dazallfolks. :)

One cannot visit Venice without seeing nudes all over the place (statues, I mean). Shoot...I was all ready to call my travel agent then I get the to "statues" part! ;)

Yes there was alot more, which is why I said "due in part", I ask that you please read my reply before disagreeing with me... And I responded that there was slightly more, so I would ask of you the same. Frankly, that whole mess was an unnecessary gesture on both sides.

I PAY $35 a year to GIVE AWAY stuff. (And some people pay a LOT more.)You have to download a free plug-in to get FREE stuff. Man, that's a real shame. I feel very sorry for you, I really do. Man, where are the Kleenex when I need them. sniff sniff... Sorry for the sarcasm, but it never ceases to amaze me that folks complain about anything to do with free stuff (with the possible exception of the stuff not being well enough documented to ascertain rights). I do wish the comments I add when uploading would actually show up. There is a comment field when uploading, but I've yet to see any of the comments actually show up anywhere. That could quickly improve the situation for all. Or flags, similar to the Nudity flags. No Restrictions; No Commercial Redistribution; Open Source; No Commercial Use. That sort of thing. By the way, no plug-ins or redirection for my stuff, and terms similar to Open Source. May switch over to the GPL, very good idea, that. Oh yea, by the way, e-mail addresses change. Maybe that's why they don't answer? jon

Maybe that's why they don't answer? Okay, so whats the solution? If I use a texture, and in the read-me it says to contact the supplier for permission before using in a commercial render, and the e-mail is, unbeknownst to me, out of date, do I simply forget about using that particular piece? Im a strict adherant to a creator's wishes when it comes to usage for commercial work: if I have something thats needed for a particular project because its the best solution, you may rest assured that the creator will be given the opportunity to respond as requested. If they dont after a reasonable amount of time, then I will consider it a carte blanche and use it.

Do what you think you need to do. Personally, I would not use it under those circumstances. And that argument may even work in court, since they laid down the rules and then "abandoned them". Believe me, I hate commercial restrictions as much as the next guy. That's why, 1 - my read me identifies the object by name and says you can use it in any render without restriction, and 2 - I quit using downloads and started making my own stuff. It may not be as fancy as the stuff I see, but I have no question in my mind that I can use it! LOL. jon

objectively speaking, you guys are arguing over the definition of "freestuff" so maybe it should be clarified and it will help solve this issue.

I will think twice the next time I am about to give away a Faerie for free. The last one costs me 10GB of traffic in a short time. I had to remove her from my webspace to make sure I won't go over my monthly limit.

I had some funny issues with confusing someone with my CSS stylesheet on my webpage and now that the same person
calls people who give away free stuff snobbish, antagonistic people who obviously don't respect their fellow members just because they make it not damn easy to get the stuff I am sitting here and asking myself is it worth to give away something for free and 2. WHO does not respect the fellow community members.

Really funny :-(

so we've got "cash free" from Cookie i've also seen "promotional freebie" (free addons to commercial items) then we've got "gift" from ron any others? at 3-darena we classified the freebies by the restrictions on their usage. all of them have some, ie. none of them are "gifts" -- perhaps we should add that as a choice. (i say "we" though i am not staff/admin/mod there, i happened to write the freebies script i refer to and let 3-darena use is as a "cash free" item though i've cost them a lot of money for hosting my freebie downloads... )

If you win a free cheeseburger from McDonalds, do you expect them to bring it to your front door tied with a bow? And let the neighbours find out??? Not a chance!!! =)

Heh... My two cents: I understand the original complaint. If there is a free stuff item, it should be easy to find instead of making people surf and click time after time only to find out they can't even use the freebie because of the missing plug-in. There are people who'll say: "You should be grateful, it's FREE!". True. I am grateful. But having to search and search for the freebie you can't even use in the end is just not much fun. I understand people like FaerieGurl. Many hosts just won't allow hotlinks, and that's why the freebies have to be put on a website. So... the solution is quite simple. If you put the freebie on your site, make sure it's easy to find. For example: if your page uses frames, link the FreeStuff thumbnail to the main page and make sure there's a link that says "free downloads" or something there. That way people will find with just a couple of clicks what they're looking for... and everyone will be happy. Now, let's not fight.

You two can always agree to disagree, right?

Okay, okay, both of you kids settle down back there or I swear to God, Im pulling this car over and giving both you such a smack! All right, now that we have a little calm... One of the problems with this kind of communication (and I can speak from personal experience, guys) is how easily one small mis-communication becomes a Holy War. To both of you: youre both right and youre both wrong. I wont go into the details because its not necessary: you both already know it. So lets leave it at that, shall we? Otherwise, just wait till your father gets home!!!

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