I have a simple suggestion that will do alot to alleviate people's concerns about advertising in the Poser Forum. How about a forum devoted entirely to the showcasing of various vendor items? I think the forum would go a long way to increasing the relationship between the many vendors and the many members. Personally, on occasion when seeing an advertisement in the forums, I have requested additional renders of the product or asked the creator questions about the product that were not covered on the product page. I've always gotten what I asked for and helpful replies from the vendors when I have done that. At the same time, in the same thread that I ask my questions, I have seen folks come in and complain about the vendor and the advertisement that I found helpful. Of course, this would require the support of the vendors to accomplish, but I doubt that any of them would object. As a vendor myself, I'm leery to post WIP or the plugs as not to upset those in the Poser forum that are there to learn. Most vendors I have had the pleasure of dealing with are more than happy to answer any additional questions about their creations that future customers might have. It doesn't just have to be about the finished products....it could also include works-in-progress that the vendor can get real time feedback from their customer base. It may start out slowly, but I think as it grows and the members see the vendors asking for thier opinions and feedback, as well as seeing their requests coming to life, it would be a relatively popular forum. Well...I'd be there anyway. :))

I'd be there. I think it's a great idea. =OD

It's been suggested before and been shot down. Personally, as a vendor, I'd love to see something like this. A place to put my advertising renders and marketing survey type stuff without upsetting anyone in the other forums for whatever reason. Besides, I know how tiresome it can be to have to wade through "Lookie Here! New stuff for sale!" to find any REAL discussion of Poser or other applications in the forums. PLUS everyone would know EXACTLY where to look for additional information on store items. Can't tell you how many times I've wanted to see an item I was considering for purchase from a different angle or rendered in a different program or lighting.

Normally, Russ would have come through here by now and said that if the idea seems popular, or gets a good deal of support, it could be created. But things seem a little less than normal today. I personally think it's an excellent idea, and I was one of those who would periodically mention it in C&D. The Poser Forum gets alot of that, and frankly I'm surprised it's not complained about more often than it is. Well, that's how this new forum thing works. You suggest it, people show interest and stste their reasoning, and maybe it happens if enough people are interested in it to justify the time it takes to set it up. Basically all I'm saying, once again, is I think it would be a great idea. Good luck!

I would like a Poser commercial forum myself, not only for the announcement of products, but for discussing commercial/marketplace related things revolving around Poser.

I would like a "two way" communication. Vendors could showcase their stuff, and people could ask questions, make suggestions. I'd also like the "customers" or non-vendors to have a chance to showcase or tell our friends and fellow artists about products we like or believe in. I know enough about the Renderosity community to believe in the integrity of our vendors. I place great value in hearing a fellow consumer tell me what he/she likes about a particular product. Does that make sense?! Ron

all sounds great to me. Makes sense too. Butch

I think it's a very good idea. As a vendor, I have refrained from posting announcements and plugs in the Poser forum because I too find them annoying. A forum like the one you are suggesting would be great. :-)

I think its a great idea

This would make sifting through the forums easier for those of us who may not be in the mood to look at the advertisements (though I do look at some). At least most people tell you now that it's something for sale instead of being ambiguous. :) Thumbs up for this.

waving his hand in the air in agreement :)

This has been brought up before, and shot down, mostly by the merchants themselves. They didn't want to feel relegated to a small corner of the forums and if any semi-commercial type of post appeared elsewhere, it could generate complaints since they have their own forum to post to. Basically, they thought people would complain if such posts were continued in the Poser forum after a new forum was created. Russell

You might want to run it by them again... since it doesn't limit them to only the one forum. It would be a great place though to not only showcase somethings.. but perhaps for them to do some market research at the same time. Toss out wild ideas. Who would like a fuzz widget that flys? And perhaps a sketch. If no one bites.. why model it. It's a thought. :)

They wouldn't necessarily have to use it, but it might catch on. However I can also see them liking the high profile nature of the Poser forum. Sounds like another one of those bottlenecked situations. :/

Well if votes are needed I'll add mine for it. I'm not a vender, but I have spent a lot of money here. I'd like to be able to see what's new, or upcoming etc.

I'm a fairly new vendor and wasn't aware that posting plug images in the Poser Forum was something that people complained about, oh well. I for one would love to see this new "Commercial Forum", IMHO it's a great idea. :) Simon.

I think it is a goo idea. It would permit me and others to ask if some vendor would produce some specific item. The Poser forum is not suited for this, there is already too much markplace talk already.

Many of us use the poser forum to get feeback on in-progress products. You could see that as advertising, but it isn't really. That's the purpose of the Poser forum - to get help. A separate arena for new product announcements, or advertising...on the surface that makes sense, but the question is whether the wider community would support it. There's a difference between having a convenient place to look for new products, ask vendors questions that aren't covered by the product descriptions etc. (useful, and speaking as a vendor I'd support that - it could only help sales) and having such a forum treated as a way to "do away with all that advertising". There is no point in such a forum if the vendors are talking only to themselves. rcook - I don't know when the idea was last mooted, but there are new vendors appearing in the marketplace every week: those who objected might be in the minority now. I'm on the fence on that one. I'd support such a forum if it were established, but I don't feel confident enough to request it.

Well, I for one would definitely support and make use of it. As it is now, I go to the Poser forum for help with POSER, not to see what's new and available in the marketplace. I don't even bother to READ those posts most of the time. I would much rather have the two relatively separate so I can browse each without the distraction of the other.

good idea! i'd like also something like controvesies & debate or complaints & discussions... ;]

I agree with establishing this type of forum. I hesitate to post ads for my products in the poser forum, but at the present time it's the best way to let folks know a new product is available. I guess you could always count on folks checking the "What's New" items? WIP posts are another subject. I do post WIPs simply to get a broader input and suggestions for improvemnt. I say let's go for it :) Spectre

I would hope that a forum like this would not place any type of limitation on a vendor from being able to advertise.. it might actually help in some ways... even within the Poser / whatever / Forum. You place your nice Picture Add in , then cut the URL and race over to the Poser forum. There you can place a Simple Message giving a brief of what the other post contains and a link. Now youve got a teaser over in the Poser forum and a place where those interested can discuss it without taking extra bandwidth away from the other forum. At least that would by my way to get maximum bandwidth, while still saving some. ;)

I think that would be an excellent way to do it, RimRunner.

I think that the potential pitfall of this idea, though the idea itself is a good one, is number of potential eyeballs. Vendors are going to post where there are the most potential eyeballs if they are smart, just like advertisers during prime time tv all vie to advertise during certain hours and shows because there are a higher number of potential eyeballs. A forum like this might make a nice additional forum, but not a good replacement forum. So long as vendors were not forced to only post their commercial work, commercial WIP, etc stuff to this forum, it could indeed make a good focus group forum. However, when I am on a WIP, and asking people to tell me what colors they would like added to a WIP, that they get to choose additional colors... there is no place like Poser forum itself for getting the eyeballs I need to get people involved. And involvement is fun for them, and profitable for me. It helps them feel a part of what I do, and invested in it. It helps me get much needed suggestions and feedback of what they want so that I am not just shooting blind in the dark. So basically, if you make a forum like this as a focus group, that is a good thing. If it becomes Camp X Ray to put all vendor stuff into, that could be a very bad thing, since after all, unless we can draw those eyeballs into there, and there is no guarantee they will come, we are just all talking to ourselves.

I don't know of anyone who thinks a WIP is the same thing as an advertisement. At least, none of the people I know personally think that way. One MAJOR advantage I could see to having a "Marketing" forum would be that it could provide us a place to do some serious market research without disrupting the flow of the rest of the site (and no gripes from the general membership - what a bonus! g). I'll tell you all right now that I have a serious problem with going into any of the forums and saying "hey, guys, what would you be willing to pay for this package, etc." and soliciting opinions on that sort of thing. To my mind, it's simply out of place in the regular forums, plus since my items are more general type textures and patterns - not just limited to one platform like poser, but useful both there and in 2D paint programs, it would save me a lot of crossposting issues as well. Recently I put an item up in freestuff - a set of blank pattern templates that people could use to make their own seamless texture tiles. I wound up posting the announcement in both the poser AND the Paint Shop forums. When I was uploading the file itself, I decided to put it in the "Misc" category because it didn't really FIT anywhere else. A Marketing forum would be a perfect place for announcing the availability of something like that, don't you think? Kate (who isn't looking for restrictions, but rather more convenience for both vendors and customers)

an excellent idea, especially for getting reactions to WIP.

Great idea. jon

Personally, I would like to see a forum like that, as well as a gallery. I would personally peruse it on a daily basis, because I already do that to the Marketplace anyway. If one of the vendors needs feedback on a product or whatever, another thing that they could do in the Poser forum, is post a message and ask for feedback and have a link to the product they are talking about maybe? Not sure what the answer is to all of this, but I would like to see a forum like that as a member here. Pendy

Looking this over, out of 24 participants in this thread, 20 have indicated that they would be in favor of something like this. The other 4 either state that they are undecided or have voiced no preference or opinion. Just putting the stats out there. =)

Make that 21. Personally, I was rather surprised when I noticed that the monthly Marktplace Flyer only highlighted a very few items. I would far rather have a simple list of all new items for the month with a title and link like: "Conforming bananas- a bla bla and bla (link) which would give everyone a fair go as far as their small advert. I also think a seperate forum for Mp announcement and update would be a good thing, for three reasons: 1. remove some of the "baggage" from the poser forum for those who are after the learning aspects. 2. make it easier for merchans and such to post updates, announce new items, and get feedback 3. open up the marketplace a little. When most or all of this sort of posting is in the poser forum, it gives the impression that it is the only app used in the MP. What about Bryce, Vue, 3ds, and others? Oddly enough, most "market" posts which are placed in these forums seem to be shown the door. I think opening up the MP more for all program users would increase sales and input- a good thing for everyone. My two cents, and one-cent-off coupon. ;]

You know, the biggest selling newspapers, in terms of which days of the week sell more copies, are the ones with the heaviest advertising. That is because people actually do buy newspapers to look over the ads, as well as catch up on the news. So it is only natural to assume that a vendors board here would be heavily visited, thus ensuring plenty of "eyeballs". jon

Hell, I'd love to see a forum like this - the very first thing I bought from Renderosity involved seeing the artist ask around for suggestions, WIP criticisms, and general ideas for improvement. Even if it's for sale, it does do two things for me - 1) If the item interests me, I get to see, and in a small way help shape, what ends up being sold in the online stores. 2) As a guy who likes doing modelling and building props, it gives me ideas for what I can build next, and helps me avoid stepping on a merchant's toes if a similar item already exists, or is being built. /P

Kate - make that 22. However, the last time this concept was shot down, as I recall, there was a vote going on about whether people would like it, and the "yes" catagory was way ahead, and then there was suddenly an announcement that the whole idea had been dumped. Somebody in the PTB did NOT like the idea at all and apparently when the vote was going counter to expectations, the whole thing was scuttled. And whoever that was/is, I expect they'll fight and/or overrule it again.

Yeah Allen, yer prolly right, but a gal can dream, can't she? =)

Some merchants think a seperate merchant forum or gallery is bad for their sales. But that depends on how it is handled.
Quite often I don't buy a product because I don't like one detail. In a seperate forum this vendor can post many making-of-pictures and I can tell him what I like and where I want some improvement. But maybe they don't want my input?

On second thought this forum isn't a good idea. If more people sell good products I would have to buy more. ;P

"This has been brought up before, and shot down, mostly by the merchants themselves." Please tell'em what the poll numbers were from the previous time that this was brought up. The "populace" voted for it(it was around 70% for at one time before it disappeared), and then several merchants threatened to hold their collective breaths until they got their way. Somehow the concept of "customer satisfaction" does not apply to this situation.

Personally I enjoy reading the product announcments in the Poser Forum. They're usually accompanied by a little info by the author, and you get a chance to see feedback from others. I consider them as apropriate for a Poser Forum as the innumeral " Why my figure dissappear when me add clothes?" or "how do I edit Posette to make a one-legged pirate in PhotoShop"-type questions. Most of them have a header like "shameless self promotion" or "conforming bannana mask now in market". I'd be heartily in favor of a checkbox for postings similar to the nudity flag for commercial announcments, so members with limited bandwidth can filter better. I've been there, done that (until I got DSL). Looking at the member ID's in this forum, it seems this forum isn't followed by as many members as the Poser one, so any feedback here would be somewhat misleading. (I'm not a vendor, by the way). Just my two cents worth.