Okay, need to get serious here for just a minute. I am confused as to which program best handles imports and renders of texture rich poser 4 models. Could we get a bust render of one model with a detailed texture, such as a freckle texture, with Bushi's or Nerd's eyes and Allie's Hair rendered in the following programs? Bryce Carrera 3dsmax Vue3 Lightwave Misc. I think if we can pull together and do this, this will be a valuable end-result thread that will guide many newcomers to the best possible companion program to Poser. I ask because I see a lot of renders of poser models in other programs, and I'll be damned if they ever look as good as they do in poser. Usually skin tones are icky and everything looks washed out. So, here's the guidelines. Standard P4 nude woman with Dthuregrif's freckle texture and Allie's hair rendered stock blonde. I think not enough people have the real eyes to include that...so skip that... Bust render of said model in program that you have..sign up here for which one you're going to do to avoid many duplicates...and send the best quality jpg to me at Gboycott@mediaone.net. I will compile them all into one final showcase pic and post the results to the um...3D Applications forum and generations from now, people will finally know which program does it best. Or if it's a crappy idea, flame me :) -Darth_Logice

Its a good idea. All programs obviously have different advatnages and disadvantages, and also prices! I believe the Poser 4 renderer is a bit limited, but you have the advantage of being able to alter your pose on the fly. Bryce 4 has excellent materials but to me you can tell when a PIC has been rendered in Bryce4. The only other package I use is 3DS. To me the renderer in this is far and away the best, but then you have the problem of making materials (which is a nightmare, but very powerful once you know what your doing) and also the price. Just my ha'penny worth :)

Valid points, all, Allerleirauh and BazGibb. It's not a "crappy idea", as D_L might suggest. With the talent represented by this membership (a perfect example of which is your posted work and comments/advice), I'm sure we can put our heads together and come up with a (series of?) tutorial(s) of how to get it done (?) I say...."Renderers! Man your mouses!" (mice?)

Until very recently, I hardly ever rendered in Poser. I exported my models once posed to Bryce 3 because I prefer the appearance the materials in that program. Now one thing I've noticed when people do this, they don't smooth the model. They import the textures (or Bryce 4 demands that you do). But the Poser model looks a little blocky. If you smooth the figure it looks much better. Yes, all the peices come apart but that's better for using materials on all the parts. Its very tedious, I know, but I like the results. And with Bryce 4, once textured, the whole thing can be regrouped so it can be moved and positioned. I have some excellent skin materials made by my sister, Verdie, for just these types of exports. Believe it or not, wood materials work on hair. Since Bryce 3 and 4 are the only other products that I can afford at the moment, I can only comment on them. If anyone is interested in the skin materials, they can e-mail us.

Hmm. I guess I'm one of the only ones who likes the way Poser figures render in RayDream. I also like using RD because it's the easiest program to use with Poser figures. Just save the figure as a .pz3 file. Then open in RD to render. What's easier than that? ScottA

Okay, so most everyone likes the idea ('cept for Allie, but I think after my clarification she might like it better.) Allie and all: I meant to say that people that know how to get the BEST results out of the respective programs should volunteer to take the Pepsi challenge with the program they hold dear. Use the best things inherent in each program to do the best possible render of the subject so we can see what looks best to us, the prospective buyer. We all know that we might not get the same results immediately upon purchase of the winning program, but with a little learnin' ... Now you get the idea? Scott...could you represent RayDream? Need some people to commit. -Darth_Logice

There's an old quote about Miami Dolphin's Football head coach, Don Shula: "He can take his players and beat yours, and he can take your players and beat his." The point is, even with the very best people here doing their best work, there's no way to know if a program is better or if we just have a better artist.

Not a good analogy in this case smallspace. I would agree if we were talking about photoshop vs. PSP or something like that...but for straightforward rendering of the same OBJ with the same textures where the only real variables are lighting and rendering engines, I think we can get a good comparison going. It's much more mechanical in this case. "Which car goes faster?" that kind of thing. -dl

You forgot camera angle, focal length, light position, volumetric lighting, radiosity, what type of light (point, area, spot, infinite), proprietary materials parameters and a few dozen things I can think of that a good artist can use. Also, how do you determine what objects to use in the scene? Maybe one program does flesh tones better while another does metallic surfaces better. Mind you, I don't necessarily think the idea is a bad one. I just think it may be harder to create a test that's both fair and conclusive

SS--I'm wondering if you read the entire initial post! I laid out the model and materials to use, and the variables you mentioned are exactly what we need to see exploited as available. Camera angle should be dead on bust. Focal length should be constant or default, because some programs dont even have that option. Whatever way you want to light it, go for it, but remember we are trying to keep detail on the poser figure, not obscure it in shadows. Small, I think you're missing the point, which is which program renders a Poser model with texture the best? Take the model, with the textures, render it, and we'll compare. It's not a symphony, it's just nuts and bolts. -Darth_Logice

Allie, Whoever feels they have attained a good understanding of the program they want to represent. You'd be an outstanding choice to represent Bryce. All we would really like to see is not necesarrily how fancy you can get but how well can the program render detail on the P4 Model. Use whatever bells and whistles within the program you can for the best detail. If in the end someone thinks they can get more out of it then someone has done, then we can have a second look at the program in question. It doesn't have to end in round one, and in the process the contributor can share what he/she did differently to get better results. By "Better" I simply mean more texture detail DL

Darth_Logice throws numerous small items at Allerleirauh.

Darth. I'd be willing to render a pic in RD for you. But I need to know where to get the files. I think I have the hair you talked about. But I don't usually download many textures for people. You could also send me the files if that's easier. Scott Ayers iamsba@aol.com

I'll give it a shot. I will render a poser mesh in each of the following: Bryce 4 3DS Max 3 3DS Viz 3 Softimage 3.8 And if I figure how, Maya 2.5 Not going to have much lunchtime this week.

Excellent Xurge! Thanks a bunch...looking forward to the results. -DL

Ok Darth. I can do either Truespace 4 or Vue d'Esprit 3, but shouldn't we make sure we're all doing the same mesh? Also, lets make sure we're using the same color lights.

OH, and what resolution?

Small can you do truespace because I think not many people have that one... the mesh is standard p4 nude woman with dthuregrifs freckle texture in free stuff. use whatever resolution you can...use the strengths of the program to deliver the best untouched render, including whatever lighting you see fit to highlight features of the texture etc. That is the point, to see what the programs can do with standard p4 nude female with detailed texture. Thanks for your contributions. -Darth_Logice

Here's my RD render. I used the default light,and zero for highlight and shinyness settings. Since RD has a transparency channel. I wasn't sure how to apply the textures to the hair. So I just applied the curlstex.jpg to the hair color channel. And the curlstrans.jpg to the transparency channel mixed with a value so the transparency map is adjustable. This pic is a compressed Jpeg. I sent a .bmp to Darth. http://skyscraper.fortunecity.com/tyrell/769/RDrender.jpg ScottA

Forgive me. Is Allie's hair a cr2, hr2, pp2, or texture?

It's a cr2 over ------> there in free stuff

Darth...I think resolution is a VERY important part of this...it should definatly be set for all. You could try for some standard light setup also..maybe just a straight studio setup. You just can't compare apples to oranges, to paraphrase smallspace. It's an interesting exersize for sure, but still needs a little more for parameters to try and give an equal playing field to all. We're not trying here for realism, so alot of the "tricks" many people use should not be in this. I could do Max, but actually Xurge's offer to do so many of the programs is a godsend...with one person doing all these it WILL tend to "equalize" the renders...I just hate to just shove it all on him!

Darth, please don't think of this as a cop-out, but I think in the interest of a level playing field we need to bag using Allerleirauh's hair. Poser's transparency method, while not totally proprietary can at times be difficult if not impossible to translate to other programs. This is one those cases. To be honest, it has as much to do with Poser's exporters as anything else. I suggest we stick with something that's a little easier to import into other programs, still intact.

I have a terrible headache so forgive me if this is grumpy sounding. Bongo, and all others who a. thought this was a bad idea or b. tried to make it harder than it was supposed to be: It was just supposed to be "Import the obj with textures" Center OBJ for a bust pic and hit render. Everything else should be defaulty. This would've resulted in about 8 renders of the same subject with different rendering engines. The theme: Poser to X. That is as hard is it had to be. Not complicated. Not biased. On the other hand, if the rep for a program felt that he/she could get better results by tweaking the lighting or other such program specific thingy, then GREAT. Show us what it can do to make our poser models look like they did before we exported them (or better for that matter). I just dont understand why people didn't get this. And Bongo, it has nothing to do with who/what is most popular, it's all about the final product. What "Looks" best, which would be in the eye of the beholder of the final comparisons. It would be up to the individual to determine who is the winner for themselves and buy accordingly. Don't worry, some people would choose your precious Vue3 I'm sure. Chandler for the guys and Monica for the gals. The Beatles. If you want an outdoors test, suggest one. -Darth_Logice

PS: Thanks to Scott for participating with RDS. Smallspace: the very idea that the trans-hair doesn't work well within the program is certainly part of the point that should be demonstrated. Looking for warts and all. But let's just forget it. Not enough people got on board and too many people just dont get it, I can't keep explaining it. -Darth_Logice

If you want I have Bryce4 and Vue 3 I am not one of the ones that know all the ins and outs of the programs but I think your idea is a good one and I would be willing to help out if you wish(I don't complain much) Marge

Thanks Guesswho, but I think I've been properly discouraged already. Moving on to other ideas. Bongo: Oy Vey on "Metacreations Peer Pressure Society" thought you were done with the Paranoia. -Darth

Well, Now...that IS strange! My apologies. Have you posted to the team contact board? I would like to read their responses on this. -Darth_LOgice

Me too this is a first as far as I know of. Marge