Hi, what do you think? Is this forum made for discussions or is it made for posting images (without thumbnails for previews) that do not fit into the three images per day restriction in the galleries?

I would like to have discussions, myself. But being non-math minded, can't get into any in-depth formula banter. ;)
How-done-its would be good--but with so many different proggies out there, it would be difficult to say "Well, you push this button and get that result..."
What's left is critiques...and that's more an artistic judgement call. Composition, color, etc.

For example, I could say something like: "I don't generally like to do the 'traditional' Mandelbrots and Julias, preferring to explore the fringes of a fractal, where discontinuities and isolated elements occur." Would that start someone else talking??? (We'll see. Stay tuned, same frac-time, same frac-channel...)

I had discussed the idea earlier of limiting image postings, unless they are used to illustrate a point of discussion. I have been reading an excellent book, "Introducing Fractal Geometry" by Gordon, Rood and Edney. I feel up to a few technical discussions. What do you think?

I came here to get away from the tech heads. I was hoping this place would be at least partially centered upon artistic content, and comment, somewhat in the way the usenet groups used to be before the UF godz took them all over and pretty much banished all free thinking. If you want math and formulae, there are several fine email lists that have nothing BUT tech talk by fractal experts that have been in the field for many years.

It's my sincere hope that no attempt is made to wall off one of the few remaining (seemingly) open artist's colonies I've found, here at Renderosity. If it happens, I for one will be out of here.

PLEASE remember the ART part of "fractal art"...

Okay. We have 2 different POV's, here. One to learn moe, one to have fun fractally arting. Can both coexist? Is there a compromise? How can we make this a good place for everyone?

Of course, there's a way to coexist. The question I pose is, why compromise? The heart of my first comment came from your use of the word "limit". It's a concept that gives me the screaming heebie-jeebies. Why impose limits? The only reason I can think of is if this is somehow a physically limited forum to begin with, with only a small amount of bandwidth/storage space allotted. If that's so, let us know. Otherwise, it's my personal feeling that this should remain a completely open space, welcoming artwork AND tech talk, with as few restraints as humanly possible. Artists are by definition free spirits, and the concept of limits completely negates what this web site is supposed to be about. Or have I misunderstood the mission of Renderosity?

This is my personal opinion, and my "vote", as it were. All here are free to take aim and fire at will, if they disagree with me. I will not take offense, and my skin is very thick.

Of course they can :) erm, this might be rather simplistic but why can't people trying reading the threads that interest them the most and forget about the other ones. If images are a pain then skip those threads. If math makes your head ache, then skip those threads! In concern for slow connections around here I would however limit images to specific sizes. They can always be linked to their larger counterpart in the persons gallery after all. I do tend towards thinking that this isn't a gallery but DO want to see images illustrating a point or initiating a discussion such as the one called Bryce Fractal. There were some very good images in that thread that both sparked the conversation and illustrated techniques and meanings.

Survey Says- If If Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It! I can live with that. ;]

My tuppence ha'penny ...

I would be quite happy to see images posted in the forum if they are there to illustrate a point, or are a request for some technical help in the finishing of the image, for example. Posts of this kind are likely to trigger useful and interesting discussions, and to further develop the fractal artists' community here.

I'm also happy to see the more mathematical aspect of fractal art being discussed here too - although I personally would be unlikely to contribute a lot to it, I imagine that I, along with many other fractal artists, could very well benefit from the results of such discussion. Again, discussions of this type are likely to bring together all those involved in fractal art, whether they be artists, mathemeticians, or both, as well as assist in new formulae etc being developed.

If the size of images posted to the forum is already limited to 200kb (is it??) then the bandwidth should be quite acceptable for browsing a discussion forum.

If it's an image that's been posted in the gallery already, then a link can easily be provided, or html can be written into the post to load that image.

There's no need to label the posts with words like googleeyes / Cubic Perameterspace because it states quite clearly on the thread list whether there is an image associated with that post.

BUT - it does seem totally POINTLESS to me, however, to use the forum instead of the gallery simply to post a handful of "here is what I did today" images. This is what the gallery, or an individual's own website for that matter, is there for, surely? With the added benefit of all users being able to post their comments, critiques and ratings, and even to vote for them in the HOt 20 too.

A limit of 3 posts per person per day for full-sized finished images in the gallery is surely sufficient for any artist, however great they are? Any more, and I can't see anyone bothering to look beyond the third, especially if thumbnails are not available.

btw I am intrigued - what exactly are "UF godz"? and how do they banish all free-thinking???? lol - I never thought about fractal art as having anything to do with politics or religion before!

Tina

A limit of 3 posts per person per day for full-sized >finished images in the gallery is surely sufficient for any >artist, however great they are? Any more, and I can't see >anyone bothering to look beyond the third, especially if >thumbnails are not available. no one's ever going to need more than 640K of memory! no. 3 images a day is not sufficient, not for everyone. what if you want to put images in poser, and terragen, and fractal, and photography, and mixed media? that's more than 3 galleries right there. you have a total of 3 images to the SITE not to each gallery.

I think 3 images is more than enough, the flood of images without a serious pre-choice of their poster(s) made me run away from Fractal World...

If anyone can get that kind of output, I want to know what they're taking, and where to get it! I see no problem with a sensible limit. Let's say, for the forum here, one per day. That will give everyone's posts a chance to be seen without ending up at the bottom of the list right away.

Let's make it 3- that shuld be enough for a good fix.

I thought the limit under discussion was the lmit on posts to the galleries? are you saying just 3 images per day posted to this forum or just 3 posts per day images or not? i'm confused now.

Three new, non-gallery images per day in the forum. Hopefully with a few tips on how they were made, but that's not nessecary- posting just as a WIP or similar is OK too.

I really wish this forum, not to be a mini fractal gallery. If images are to be posted then, as Tina suggested they should be for learning purposes or help . Im looking at the forum less and less as it always seems to be just more images. If you have created an image you really must share and have used your 3 a day quota then why not send a link or post to one of the many fractal newsgroups. I also feel that any one new to fractals, coming here looking for some information may be put off asking questions when it appears to be another gallery. And three images a day is ample for the main gallery thats is 21 images a week! I work with Bryce, poser, xenodream and Ultra fractal and could never create 21 images in a week, that I would wish to share. Guess the key word if your running out of space and cant decide what to send is selectivity.

Let's try 3 for now. If it's still too much, I'll change it.

Attached Link: http://www.aartika.co.uk

"no one's ever going to need more than 640K of memory!

no. 3 images a day is not sufficient, not for everyone. what if you want to put images in poser, and terragen, and fractal, and photography, and mixed media? that's more than 3 galleries right there. you have a total of 3 images to the SITE not to each gallery."

Kelly - I don't think the issue here is to do with memory :-)

The point I was trying to make is more to do with individuals flooding a topic forum with image posts that are not likely to generate any useful discussion, and are more appropriately posted in the galleries.

If someone feels their Terragen image needs discussion in a topic forum, then they can freely post it to the Terragen forum; similarly for images created using poser, 3-D, photography, fractal and mixed media etc. If they want, they can even post the same image to more than one forum if their post, and any subsequent discussion, is relevant to more than one.

Maybe I've missed the point somewhere here? I had always understood that the gallery on r'sity was the place to display one's finished works, and the forums were more like meeting places to discuss relevant topics of common interest. Obviously the trigger for this discussion may well be an image in the first instance.

If the fractal forum has not been set up to serve this function in the fractal art community, then it seems pretty unlikely to me that many members of it will want to make use of it.

btw I am personally not in favour of limiting the posts to the forum at this stage, just in limiting the content of the posts to that which is likely to trigger useful and interesting discussion to the fractal art community. But I guess if there are individuals who wish to flood the forum with new posts on a daily basis, that might become necessary.

It seems worth thrashing out these issues in a civilised manner at this early stage, and maybe drawing up some simple guidelines, if the forum is to survive.

Tina

maybe you couldn't create 21 images a week stotty but there are others that can create far more than that. what about the photographs peopel want to put up? and other things that there are galleries for? the max number of images allowed in the galleries per day should have nothing to do with how many any specific artist can create in that time. And it shouldn't have anything to do with whether others think those images are good or not. Right now, you make one image in poser you want to share and have 2 photo's you want to put up you sure better not have anything else you want to post that day. Each gallery should have a personal max limit, not the site as a whole. And to bring this back to a fractal gallery related discussion, this is supposed to be, i thought, for all sorts of fractals, not just ultrafractal. And someone does a nice exploration series into some part of the mandelbrot, and they wish to put the entire series in their gallery. And let's say there are 30 images in that series. they're going to be uploading them for 2 weeks. And forget putting up a fractalXtreme movie, the gallery can't accept that large a file.

the quote 'no one's ever going to need more than 640K of memory' was made to illustrate something. Back when that quote was made microsoft was limiting memory cause no one would need it in their minds. your comment was along the same lines. surely no one needs more than 3 per day! maybe you dont but dont assume others dont just because you dont see a need. and the comment was specificaly about number of gallery uploads a day, not number of forum posts per day. And I'm confused about something else Tina. you want to limit the content of the posts to something that will trigger useful and interesting discussions. fair enough. could you define what you'd consider useful and interesting discussions? it seems to me that is exactly what this thread was originaly trying to determine. What sorts of things would those reading this forum find useful and interesting.

Kelly I could probably create 21 images a day if i wanted the question is would they be good images? and I would i want to send all of them to rosity? Nah probably not, maybe one or two may make it, the rest would either go on my webpage or would be stored in harddrive or in the bin, Kelly said...."this is supposed to be, i thought, for all sorts of fractals, not just ultrafractal." Neither was I infering this to be an Ultra fractal forum you had quoted earlier some of the application's you use I just did the same didn't want you to feel alone,:0)I also use Tier-zon and Ktaza you happier now! Besides I don't think its up to the fractal folks to decide how many images can be uploaded to the main galleries I may be wrong being new here, but surely, that is a decision already made by rositys' powers that be. And considering the many people that post to rosity a good one if all of rositys artists were allowed to post all the images they wanted, I think me modem would blow up!!!!

Two points here:

1. Number of image posts per day to galleries

My understanding is that r'sity is a privately-owned site that provides a totally free showcase gallery to any artist who signs up for on-line membership. The only restriction is three image posts per day, which seems to be a pretty generous allowance. I imagine that to allow artists to post as many as they wanted (eg a series of 30 images as was suggested above) would cost the owners big bucks, and that this cost would then have to be passed on to its members. This would inevitably deter artists from joining, and thereby reduce the diversity, and probably the quality too, of artwork that is currently being showcased. A chicken and egg situation.

Most on-line artists who are serious about what they do also maintain their own website, at their own expense, where they are free to post more than that if they so wish.

1. What constitutes useful and interesting discussion?

Here we get down to the nitty-gritty of what this thread is about ie "What is this forum for???"

Ultimately, the purpose of the forum will be defined by how its members use it. If there are no guidelines, it will become dominated by a very small number of members using it for their own specific purposes. But the usual purpose a any forum, and indeed of the other forums here on r'sity, is as a meeting place for its members to discuss relevant issues of common interest.

Examples of topics might be the sharing and discussion of artistic techniques, such achieving texture, symmetry, certain shapes, adding frames etc etc in fractal images. It could be related to methods of combining a fractal image with a photographic image or a poser image, for example.

Technical questions too about the use of fractal-generating software.

Other topics that are related are the development of formulae, software programs, plug-ins, use of graphics software, post-processing, website design and maintenance, among other things.

A place for announcements too that are of interest to fractal artists - competitions, submissions for printed projects etc.

Maybe some human interest would be good too - welcoming of new members, feedback about artists' galleries, websites etc.

These are the kind of things I would personally think of as being "useful and interesting" in a forum, and I think I'm probably not alone in this - if I am, then this forum is not for me!

Lastly, when I want to look at and enjoy fractal or other artwork, I browse the galleries, and use the thumbnails subjectively to pick out images that I wish to download and send feedback to the artist concerned. I'm not suggesting that everyone must do as I do by any means - we all have different interests, finances, amount of time, modems etc.

Tina

(now getting off the soapbox!)

okay... this is a very interesting discussion and seems worth hashing out. limiting the number of IMAGES posted to this forum to 3 seems like a reasonable first pass 'rule of thumb'... i do feel that if someone is excited enough about something, or has a point / reason for posting more than 3 then ON OCCASSION it's just fine to do so. limiting art posts in a forum intended for discussion is a courtesy that i think we all should follow out of respect for eachother. this won't be a 'hard and fast rule' but one that we use to guide our participation here. for me... i am a ZERO technical fractahaulic so i am afraid until we get some discussions going all i will have, personally, to contribute here are my pictures...perhaps art techniques on how i use fractals for illustrations. even in this case, where all i have to offer ARE images, i am quite satisfied with the 3 per day rule. this will in no way limit the number of discussion threads i can start here.

Sorry, one last point ...

Kelly wrote:
"And to bring this back to a fractal gallery related discussion, this is supposed to be, i thought, for all sorts of fractals, not just ultrafractal."

I don't think anyone has suggested, or is suggesting, otherwise.

audre gets the feeling that you all know eachother from somewhere else? *feeling like the new kid on the block *

(Rosemaryr brings in plate of chocolate-chip cookies, fresh from the oven, and lots of cold milk, sets up buffet table...)

"Looks like this'll be a long discussion...munchies, anyone?" :)

fractal tea anyone?

yes, fractal tea please! If you feel like the new kind on the block Audre, I must admit that I do too. Oh well, I've brought the candles along...

Attached Link: http://www.p-gallery.net

I personally like the ability to upload images, when it's to illustrate a technique, or ask what went wrong. I personally think that finished images not for illustrative or critique purposes should go in the gallery. However, I don't want to just go by my personal preferences, that's why this thread is here.

Hey this is all very interesting! Going to throw my 2c in here :-) Personally im not interested in seeing the forum flooded with images, just cos you can. If there are artists out there so prolific and stifled by the 3 a day limit, then get another site. Get 3! Geocities offers you 3 websites (on 3 diff topics) with 15MB space and subdirectories and all sorts. There are LOTS of options out there for posting heaps of pix. Im not into the technical side of mathematical calculations basically because I dont understand them, but surely here is the best place to start this kind of discussion. And its not limited to UF either. I know there are a few XD users out there, and we ALL need as much help with learning that as we can get :-)))))) Its a matter of putting our heads together and coming up with good questions, suggestions, ideas, tutorials. I would love someone to explain the really simple basics of UF, cos thats where I came unstuck with it, I couldnt find a step by step explanation at a level I needed. Most of the time people seem to assume you kinda had some exposure and half an idea about that kind of fractal design. I have no idea what the diff between a Julia and a Mandelbrot fractal is (and I admit this in public too LOL) Stacey - shutting up now!

WOW..I'm glad to see my long-loset family finaly sitting down and talking...#!@#%&!!@#!.Whew!!! Trivia quiz;How many pages does this string contain????

Trivia quiz;How many pages does this string contain????<<<<< ummmmm, one page??? At least, one HTML page showing on one screen. ;D Do I get a secret surprise???

hmm, I think 20 pages. At least that's how many "page down" keysrokes it took to get to the posting screen! And, to me a "page down" keystroke is like a paged turned in a book :) So, there have been lots of ideas and opinions expressed on the how many/if any/why/when regarding images being posted in the forum. Are we getting any closer to a concensus? Will we know when we are closer to a concensus or will it need a vote or, should we try different rules and methodologies each different month and then decide which months were most beneficial and had most activity? firefly looks ruefully at the bottom of her cup and asks Audre to pass the fractal tea one more time please :)