Are face or body piercings masochistic? To me they're about as cute as warts.

Hm. I recently saw a newspaper article about the latest "fashion" and I have to say I don't consider body piercings that bad anymore. Now it seems to be in to have something AMPUTATED! A tattoo isn't cool enough, or face/body piercings, no.. instead people have one digit of a finger removed.. or a whole finger. That's just plain SICK. (heh, and don't give me any crap about how I should be tolerant towards other people's interests... there are so many people on this planet who'd give just about anything to get back a finger they lost in an accident that I just can't understand why anyone would want to have theirs removed)

I can do the honor for them...Chop chop..Here you go. You don't want the ear? Ok, that can be done too.

Wouldn't call them masochistic, but agree with you: they're as cute a warts. I do think an adult has a right to do as they wish with their bodies, but they have to realize that even "minor" things can influence opininons. Examples: I like short hair on ladies, some men don't. My wife likes beards on men, some ladies (and employers) don't. Such is life...

~g~ good examples jchimim. I love long hair on ladies. and for myself. the latter causing problems with most employers. "long haired freaky people need not apply" signs by the band aka five man electrical band still over 30 years later that attitude exists about guys with long hair. as for the amputation, well there are a few people who's whole imact of people would be improved by the right amputation.....off with the head!! definately make it easier to be around them. ~efg~

I saw a teenage girl on the bus a couple of years ago who had little metal studs outlining around her entire lips. There must have been 25 or 30 studs all the way around her lips. When she "grows up" and tries to get a job, or when the fad changes and she doesn't want those there anymore, she'll be scarred for life. I just don't understand why anyone will do such extreme piercings. They don't think of the future. Fads come and go, but young people don't seeem to think about that. A few years ago, it was a trend to get one's teeth tattooed. I saw on TV, someone who had a little string of elephants tattooed onto their teeth. I only have my ears single-pierced for one set of earrings. Nothing more. No tattoos, nothing else. Melanie

I love my 12 piercings... I have 2 in my navel, one in my nose, 3 in each ear, one in my tongue, and 2 in other places lol. I also had, at one time, my eyebrows and labret (under the lip) done. It's all a matter of preference. My piercings and tattoos (3 of them) don't make me ugly, in my opinion. Melanie, I am sure they do think of the future, but keep in mind, you only have one life, so why not live it to the fullest with no regrets and no worries ? Why live your life caring about what others think, when ultimately, it's your own self happiness that is going to get you through the day. I would never, however, get something amputated, that's a health risk. Piercings are not, if you go to a certified piercer.

Why does perforating the body make life fuller? Is it masochistic?

You misunderstood. I said, live life to the fullest, by whatever means. That doesn't limit life's fullness to body modification. And if it's not hurting anyone, then great. As far as me, I am a very outgoing person... when I want to be. I'm creative and expressive. I have piercings because I love them, I like the way they make me look, and they all have meanings. Same as my tattoos. No, it's not masochistic. masochism Pronunciation Key (ms-kzm) n. The deriving of sexual gratification, or the tendency to derive sexual gratification, from being physically or emotionally abused. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from being humiliated or mistreated, either by another or by oneself. A willingness or tendency to subject oneself to unpleasant or trying experiences. If that's the case, anything can be masochistic... drinking, smoking, the clothes you wear, whatever. I guess ultimately, it's all a matter of preference and opinion. Just because a person has piercings does not mean they got them for perverse gratification. I know I didn't.

Is it perverse to be masochistic?

You are REALLY stuck on the masochism thing, aren't you ?

I just want to know why the humans are doing it.

"The humans" ? LOL, well alrighty then... Well, same could be asked as to why people smoke, drink, make art, have sex, play golf, climb mountains.. because they want to and it is something they enjoy.

...and to keep the non-humans guessing.

Wow he does seem to have a thing for the word masochistic doesnt he?lol As for me; I have 5 Tattoos, left ear and left nipple pierced. If its not hurting anyone else and your into it fine, up to the point of amputation which is in my opinion the most asanine thing ive ever heard!But as for piercings, they arent hurting anyone else so its no ones business but the person getting them.Same with Tattoos , long hair (untill last year my hair was down to my belt line) etc.Peace

If it feels good to perforate the skin, why are people angry when dogs do it?

sigh I have 20...23 piercings myself. Why did I do it? To piss the bloody hell out of my mum. Why do I still have them in almost 10 years later? Because it still pisses her off :) ...That and I've grown to appreciate them as a part of me. As far as jondevitt's questions, he's either being a condecending board troll getting his rocks off or he's genuinely curious as to why people get/have piercings. Either way, this thread belongs in OT forum, not here my friend. Cheers, -Des

You know, for many years the thought of getting a tattoo or piercing revolted me. Then I grew more accepting (getting to know people with "body modifications" and finding out that most of them aren't freaks helped). Eventually, I found myself even contemplating getting a tattoo. I laughed it off at first but kept thinking about it, even going so far as to think about "what and where". And, I found myself thinking that if something means that much to someone, why not show it off? After all, if you've got it flaunt it, right? Then, two weeks ago, I went out with two friends, both of whom got piercings. Watching the process, it occurred to me that a piercing is a piercing, be it a single ear or anything else. If you've got pierced ears, I don't think you've got much of a leg to stand on to criticize folks who pierce other places. It's all a matter of degree. I personally don't need or want metal hanging off me, espcially from some of the places people have it done, but there's no way I can describe my friends as masochists. That day, I finally got a small tattoo high on my left shulder where a shirt sleeve will easily conceal it. To look at it, it's a simple geometric pattern. To me, it's something more. Do I enjoy pain? No. Am I a "freak"? Well, that's wide open to debate and one little tattoo doesn't figure too much in that discussion :-)

I may be a board troll but I'm not condecending.

Hmmm, my daughter just had her ear cartilage pierced for her 11th birthday.. I'm guessing she wanted it because she thinks it looks cool. I wasn't sure if I should let her do it at 11yrs old cause of what other people would say, but hey... we only live once and who knows what our future holds...

I've got a few friends with piercings, mostly in the ears, navel. One brave soul had her genitals pierced (no I've not seen that one). From what they've told me they have piercings because they want to have them, not because they want to freak anybody out, or for masochistic reasons. Personally it does'nt matter to me what/where you have pierced, although it can be a little intimidating when you first meet a person, ultimately it's what's inside that counts. The outside is just packaging. I'm sure we've all received bad gifts in expensive packaging & vice versa

I've spent my entire life trying to avoid getting poked with sharp objects. I'm not about to volunteer now. And don't get me started about bludgeoning ....

Wow... A friend and I were working on a story in 1992 where the main character and his friend go to a "stumping" salon to have their left legs amputated at the knee. We had some disagreements on how the main character would deal with the after effects--He wanted the stumping to make a major difference in the character's attitude and character...My take on the scenario was that the main character would have to deal with the inconvenience of having a self inflicted handicap with only slightly more trauma than getting a bad tattoo (as losing a limb in an accident would create a lot more trauma and personality shift then doing it intentionally). We figured that there are always a few brave souls out there willing to cross the line while making self mutilation a fashion statement--but I doubt it would, or could, ever become a major trend. Personally, if I were to choose a form of self mutiliation, It'd be grafting coral horns to my skull. Somehow, horns seem to be the least aesthetically distracting of any of the bizarre trends in mutilation.

You mean like that Enigma fellow? When I first saw him on The X-Files, I thought it was just makeup. My mistake. He and his wife are seriously dedicated to standing out in a crowd.

I don't think it is masochicstic at all. I have a lot of piercings and a couple of tattoos. Does it make me special? Nope (I know that isn't the topic at hand), it is one of those things that is up to personal choice, while I enjoy piercing and tattoos it doesn't scream of masochism-.What does however (to me) is the extreme modifications mentioned above such as removing of extremities, digits, bullet scarification and splitting etc. I don't see the attraction and wouldn't take part in those mentioned. But like a lot of folks are saying it is all about personal choice. Masochism...I don't dig pain at all. lol so if anything ever hurt I'd of not continued, fortunately my piercer guy is fabulous (and a RN at that) and painless at his craft).

Both if the girls I am involved with, as well as a lot of my friends have piercings, and while there is a little masochism in it for the girls the others just like the look. Tatsumi, one of the girls had a really kick ass Madison (throat piercing) but sadly it had a small problem with on of the jewelry pieces and had to come out. She may get it re-done. Kimiko had a navel, and currently has some genital piercings and some tattoos... Tatsumi also has genital jewelry and tattoo work.

Me? I just have my ear done (twice) though I do have a fairly large back tattoo in mind for after some more body building and I am probably getting arm bands done soon.

Did they think of the future? Of a impact on their possible future job interviews?

Yup. And in teh end they decided that since they are talented people perfectly capable of working as independent contractors that they would simply make the commitment to live their life on their own terms... and not refuse to do what they want so some 9-5 droid couldn't find anything wrong with them. Of course, our choice of lifestyle, and the fact that we are very open about it sort of meant that we weren't going to pass as normal anyway :)

I support this fully.

And it hasn't hurt them one bit. They get contracts, they get job offers, they are accepted as professionals and it is all fine.

Some more "extreme" links about the far out edge of body mod BTW :)

• A letter from the Toe Cutter. Self amputation
• SPC Profile Toe Amputation project.

Well, in some societies, piercings were signs of adulthood. It can be a kind of right-of-passage thing. Some people with piercings (or tattoos) ARE masochists. Some masochists have piercings and/or tattoos. But there are also a lot of masochists with neither, and a lot of people with both who hate pain but are trying to make a "statement" of some sort. And there are some people who find piercings sexually appealing. It takes all kinds.

I like that CharlieBrown, the closing statement is perfect. It takes all kinds. Can't put it more succinctly than that. :)

So, I take it, that a guy getting his Willie tatooed with his girl's name isn't "cool" anymore. Uh-oh.

Only if she's Cynthia Anastasia Barrington-Montbatten. ;]

Ouch!! Glad I don't need to have her addy too!

I remember doing Stubbie's Bar & Grill Chattanooga Tennessee. Looked kinda cool with the cigar wrapper part. But laser removal!!! Makes root canals feel like a haircut.

I had a brother who had Diabetes, developed gangrene, and almost died because of the gangrene. In the end, he lost a leg. A few years later he died due to the diabetes. I can tell you he didn't like living without his leg. I have a great deal of trouble with people who insist on piercing as a means of expressing individuality. I grew up in the 1960's when it seemed everyone needed to "look like a hippie" to express their individuality. It was quite absurd when you think of it. Remember I've "been there, done that!" In the decades since, I've found the true wisdom or essence of individuality. It's a presence or state of mind, of spirit, "who you are." Individuality and creativity don't depend on the package of your body, how you treat it, or what you wear. Those who insist otherwise are merely beginning their journey of self-discovery. Hopefully they'll learn the error of their beliefs or statements later on. As for me, I'm 52, and look very "normal" in all outward aspects. But I am very much my own man, have my own beliefs, and express my own creativity. The way I am now offers me the utmost flexibility to make it in the outside working world, and in social circles. But then that's just my own "not so humble opinion and experience."

Hi, I always thought really big earings looked stupid, but as for "other" piercings, I sometimes find small eyebrow piercings attarcative, but that's about it. But masochistic? No, I don't think so, most people have local anastheatic to get rid of the pain. Tattoos on the other hand, may well be, as there's no way I know of, (except alcohol :) to numb the pain. Especially with red. Red is bloody painfull, something to do with the body's reaction to the pigment, my forarm got hot enough to melt Vaseline. later jb

A nicely dressed and groomed, very polite young man stopped me on the street downtown a couple of years ago during my lunch break to ask me directions to a bank and he had horns. They looked real. I couldn't tell if he was just wearing a Halloween gimmick (it wasn't Halloween). He had a nicely groomed young woman with him who didn't have horns that I could see. They both looked like the types who go door-to-door for their church, the way they were dressed. Maybe I was just on Candid Camera. Who knows, but it has always left me wondering. Ron, I grew up in the 60's too, I'm your age, and I remember the hippy era very well. I now have to laugh because nothing's changed really. Kids still find their "individuality" in all looking alike. LOL Melanie

It's all a matter of folks wanting to be 'different'....to 'stand out' in a world that's become oh so very BIG and gooey in its' proportions. Nothing really knew...just the methodology keeps a changing...and in some ways, it's almost kinda comical to what extent peoples' will go to make their 'profound mark' of noteriety in some way. I go to school downtown now...in a big world class city...I see it all, at first, all too much really...piercings galore, you name it, it's pierced, is there any part of the body that cannot be pierced??...NO!!...absolutely no barriers it seems....tatoo's...all the rage...only thing is eventually some folks kinda regret having big giant "LINDA" tatooed on their chest once "Linda" is no longer that love interest and from what I hear, getting those tatoo's removed is really NO FUN AT ALL...(something they probably don't tell you when they pincushion ya in your zest for artistic body glory...)... I once saw two very pretty ladies, and when they smiled, they had had their teeth sharpened like a giger alien...very creepy, almost goulish...time to keep a walking...... I see goth girls...that seems to be a big thing still...one campus I go to is in the gay district and nothing against gays here at all...but I do wonder how those fella's get used to wearing dresses, waxing their legs and wearing high heels...do they know that not only their manly "walk" gives them away...but also those big masculine bones...big oversized hands...can they be comfortable...and do they perhaps try just a little too hard to appear feminine...to the point wear one just knows they are trying too hard...?? I mean...okay....whatever moves ya really...I could care less as long as they don't pester me like some Jehova's witness trying to make me read about world sins or some Hari Krishna's surrounding me with their tambourines agoing and robes dangling.... I walk a wee ways and I swear...if I gave even a quarter to every street person...bag person...and bus stop vagrant...I would be just as poor...I smoke occasionally...walking with any full pack of ciggies is just outright dangerous here....hell...you can get mugged!!...like....everybody asks for a ciggy...why buy em, just find some sucker that has em...like...buzz off...I am forever on my "last" cigarette!! ;-) Same thing with foodstuffs....okay, one should be able to have a drink in peace...or eat on the run...without some whino or punk trying to get close to have a sip or a bite...hehehe..the nerve of the downtown corefolks...I really feel sorry for women, they must go through a lot just being women with all those catcalls and stereotypical advertising stygma's plastered all over on billboards and every corner pole and store window's...and subway platforms...not to mention all those unmentionables...there are some pretty funky stores downtown among other things...but hey...sex sells...so does poser...;-) I find the world's quest for "notice me too" kinda refreshing...it breaks that robotic doldrum one can find far too easily by just walking a few blocks eastward in my downtown world where all the suits stand about pretending to be important with their heads propped into their Wall Street Journals whilst picking their noses and drooling over stocks or that odd blonde feline happening by...dressed to the hilt but not even realizing their fly may be wide open or their sock suspenders are showing...and worse, their toupe is on sideways....hahaha...or the other extreme...those construction hunks that usually come in pairs of four, have one working and the other three standing around whistling and grabbing their privates to the tune of every cute female thang within their range of proximity.... As well.I suppose its not always trying to be different as it is sometimes a passion for many.some folks do and can get off on very different things which is not really all that abnormal in an abnormal kinda ways.depending on what it is that ripens your jolly of courseand noI am not even going therehere Anywaysbefore I really stray myself waaay off topic heredecapitationslosing thingskinda a sense of permanency overcomes me with this thoughtI mean, it is said that human beings change every seven yearsnot only physically, but also mentally.that coupled with puberty, menopause, male martian moodswingsdrugsdrinkingeuphorias of the massesetcmeans for a wholesome variety of many years of variances unless your some laid back bumkin or hermit in the hills or just a loner wanting to be isolatedsome folks change even more.look at politiciansat election time they are full of dreams and promisesa majority and three years and they completely change their whole appearance and mindsetsamazing thing really..butthe thing here to remember is thisI lost a tooth a ways backit was MY tooth, a part of ME.I cannot grow back this toothI cannot create another toothunlike a frog I cannot grow a limb back eitherI have lost some hair, I worship the God of hair and he still keeps pulling them out anywaysgo figureI suppose what I mean is, when something is GONE like that, it is GONE and someday you may again change your views, habits, fashions, interests, look, appearance, sex, visa card, whatever.but filling up that hole you might have made in your gut on a whim is gonna be impossible no matter what.folks are still gonna see through to that other side There are limitsand we learn them from testing them.but dont lose yourself testing My raddy two shillings worth.;-)

There are some excellent points, in all areas of the issue here. I am noticed in a crowd, although I do absolutely nothing to be noticed. Maybe it's because I'm about 6 ft tall, and weigh 300 pounds. Maybe it's because I have a "boisterous" voice, and an "off-the-wall" sense of humor if I know someone wants to hear me. Of course, I'm really quite shy, and known to walk into a room or store, "do my business," quietly, and get out. But I can't help notice people noticing me. If someone looks at me directly, I might give a shy smile, try to hide my missing teeth, and move swiftly along.

Hey all!

Cool discussion... I just figure I'll comment on some things that struck me.

ronknights "I have a great deal of trouble with people who insist on piercing as a means of expressing individuality."

So do I... though it happens in all times, in all places. The thing is - not everyone who does a thing does it to be part fo a crowd... even though many others do it. Take music for instance. You hear a group and you liek them, you buy the albums and it is something YOU like. It turns out a few 10's of millions of others like them... does that somehow make that music less an expression of yourself? Of course not.

If someone gets a piercing because all their friends have one, then they are expressing a desire to be part of the group their friends form. That might be a perfectly good way to show solidarity and strength - individuality is also expressed by the groups we choose to align ourselves with of course.

If someone gets a piercing because they feel left out without one, then I see your point.

The people I know who are pierced are very, very much not being "joiners" in this. Did many of them start piercing themselves after it got "popular?" Sure. But that's because it also became a LOT safer, a lot less expensive and a lot easier to go about ones life with a piercing. This isn't a life's work for them... they didn't want to change society. They just think having a tongue piercing looks cool and is pretty cool for oral sex :) So when the trend dramatically raised the ease of doing it, and lowered the potential down side they went ahead and did it.

It is ever thus. Some people see a fashion, r a trend, or a "new thing" and it genuinely works for them, it simply "fits" them/ Others do it because everyone else is doing it. These two groups are easily confused.

To dismiss everyone with a tattoo or a piercing as "merely beginning their journey" is as inaccurate and sweeping as some peopel saying anyone without a piercing is simply too stodgy and drone-like to dream of getting one. Whenever you generalize an entire groups philosophical development on so little data you are probably wrong :)

RadArt "do they know that not only their manly "walk" gives them away...but also those big masculine bones...big oversized hands...can they be comfortable...and do they perhaps try just a little too hard to appear feminine...to the point wear one just knows they are trying too hard...??"

I know several guys who sped a lot of time in women's clothing. None of them happen to be gay as it turns out though of course there are many who are in the world. In any case, no, they don't generally think they are fooling anyone. Being able to "pass" is a goal that many of them don't even consider an important one.

RadArt "suppose what I mean is, when something is GONE like that, it is GONE and someday you may again change your views, habits, fashions, interests, look, appearance, sex, visa card, whatever"

And that's OK. I know people who have had a tattoo and later decided that they didn't liek it, or wanted it changed/gone. They deal with it or have it altered. The fact of the matter is that we are ALWAYS making choices on life that we cannot "take back" as if they never happened. Relationships, jobs, politics, religion and more... why is it that this is the one place where we should be afraid to make a mistake?

Kimiko has a tattoo that says "Servant of Soulhuntre" (approximately) on the back of her neck in Kanji. There are marks for each year we have been together. If she and I "split up" that will no longer be accurate.  But every time she sees it she will remember our time, and how it was, and what it meant to her... and she is more than willing to take that "risk". Besides, it looks damn hot :)

Anyway, enjoy!

I'm saying that it is not necessary to pierce one's body to express individuality. I'm not talking about being one of the crowd by doing that. My comment about being at the beginning of the spiritual journey is quite appropriate. When one begins to express their individuality, they might believe it's necessary to show some outside evidence, whether it be wearing the right clothes, piercing the body, etc... When one is more advanced spiritually, one knows that individuality is truly an essence of the inner self, not the outer one. Therefore it is not necessary to wear "the right clothes," pierce one's body, etc, to express that individuality. It is a tough concept for some to grasp.

I believe in having an individual look to stand out and express who I am, so I took a different route- do nothing. I am not beautiful, I have a biggish nose and several other flaws. However, I wouldn't get a nose job (or other cosmetic surgeries)if someone paid for it. If I did, I could be perfectly beautiful. Without it, I'm perfectly me, and I like it that way. I don't need to do anything else to stand out. I'm already unique. However, if anyone wants (wherever) rings, that's their ideal of self beautification, so why not? The key is whether someone is doing it to enhance themselves, or to damage or destroy themselves. I would say the vast majority of tatooers and piercers fall into the former category. If they think it's lovely, who am I to say it isn't? As for the "expectations of socienty" and employment, that changes all the time. At one time, you had better not have long hair, or black skin, or be female. I'm not hiring the jewelrey, I'm hiring the brain inside it.

Micheleh...you have some wonderful individuality in the way your express your views here...even if you do have a big nose....hehehe...really??...big nose huh?? You should have been a politician or actress then cause folks like you with natural individualities tend to make great caricatures in editorial cartoons...man, it's so much easier to capture that essence of beauty when there actually is some form of original pinnache to a person, rather than your everyday pasties and tucks and piercities and enhancements...I swear humans are becoming clone counterparts of their fabricated world....soon, if not already in some places, one will be able to order a human "as is" or the demo version, or loaded to the gills with extra's...I can't wait to see if a rear end "spoiler" actually "will" make a human go "faster" rather than just look extremely silly far too often ;-)

well, I think you're cute micheleh, but I'm biased lol. I just hacked off my waist length hair actually. I got tired of it getting in my food and foresaw headlines like 'man strangled at night by own hair'. It looks like crap cause I have no one to trimn the back. I have a pierced ear. I admit to liking pierced bellybuttons but not anything else pierced. I don't think it's masochistic. A tattoo hurts more than piercing. I think it's more than just an effort to stand out. I think it's the changing tribal rite in our society. That tribal rite changes, but there's always some act the young perform which makes them 'part of the tribe'. Once it was long hair and bare feet, or tattooes, or piercings, or pink hair, or bongos and coffee shops nad very bad poetry. There's always something. Right now it's body modification. In ten years it will be somethging else. Nothing to worry about. Just joining the tribe, the rite of manhood/womanhood. Quite natural.

Does anyone else wonder why on earth those pants folks wear nowadays that hang down past ones derrier are all the rage with many folks...??...I mean, I just do not get some fashions AT ALL!!....like you got hordes of electricians and plumbers with crack of dawn symptom everywhere...a BIG part of my school is fashion design courses...so I do see some extremely far out getups and ideas...and people...wowah...but it also makes me lose my tastebuds too at times... Different strokes for different folks I suppose...although I may like 'comfort zones' for the way I am myself...and I would really hesitate rushing along to follow what Joe Blow and Jill Thrill tell me to be like...I am a radical...go figure...suppose that makes me different too... I also dont much like stagnancy and redundancy and rather do enjoy the entertainment value of individuality and trendies our societies offers time and time again...keeps things fresh...new...original...stylish...besides....the world of art thrives on it....

**ronknights - "**When one begins to express their individuality, they might believe it's necessary to show some outside evidence, whether it be wearing the right clothes, piercing the body, etc..."

But that's my point - the idea is not that one thinks it is necessary but rather that you don't have any idea why you shouldn't do what you like to do - especially with your own body. I have many tastes as an individual... the vast majority of them have no outward visibility - but many do.

I wear a knife, one I can fight with, almost everyplace I go. I generally also wear handcuffs at the back of my belt. I wear almost exclusively black clothing and I tend to a long black leather duster in winter.

Those choices are a result of my individual tastes (to be armed, to be warm, and to be prepared to enjoy myself if I meet someone compatible - you are free to decide which is which) - they are not necessary to show that I am an individual to anyone - they are a result of my individuality.

When I get my ink done, I will have two armbands of Kanji, the words in them will have meaning to me... and I want them on my body for my own reasons. They are visible signs - but they are not intended to show off. I don't think this is a reflection of any spiritual immaturity.

If the individual taste of someone says "hey, I'd look GREAT with a navel piercing, I think they are hot" then I would say that that piercing is a result of an inner desire - not a result of a desire to "prove" that one is an individual.

If your individual tastes are all in areas that leave no outward sign then good for you - but I don't think it makes much sense to assume you know why everyone else is doing what they are doing :)

RadArt - "Does anyone else wonder why on earth those pants folks wear nowadays that hang down past ones derrier are all the rage with many folks...??..."

Depends on which ones you mean. The ones on the guys and some girls that are HUGE baggy denim? Usually with boxers? Nope. I don't know how that one started though I know that skaters took to them initially to have room for leg mobility.

As for the very low hip jeans in fashion for girls... yeah, I know how that started. You can trace the current wave to a Mariah Carey video. She wanted to wear tight jeans but didn't like the slight tummy roll she had over the top so she cut the top of them off. It looked GREAT. Of course, she is amazingly hot to begin with...

That caught on for mostly the same reasons she did it... then some celebrities had them on with a thong under, so you could see the thong curve over their hips - and that looked pretty hot too and WHAMMO... hip huggers are back :)

I can tell you that "asses hanging out of pants," for some electricians, plumbers, or other "portly people" is a direct result of having pants that are too small. It is often difficult to fit pants properly when one has a "large over-hanging belly." The belly can be several inches larger than the underlying abdomen... the pants can tend to fall down without proper support. I use a belt that has no holes... You can keep pulling on the belt to make it tighter... even that doesn't always work. My wife gets mad when I get larger, and need to buy new clothes. Heck, it's becoming almost impossible to find my size in Wal-Mart or KMart. If the pants are not large enough to properly cover the belly, then they sometimes don't cover the ass correctly. Then you see those ugly, sometimes hair asses sticking out.

soulhuntre....first off....thanks for answering a deep seated question accidently for me way above...I had always wondered why some gays dressed like women when they in fact prefer men...don't make sense knowhow unless your bi...but you touched on this and kinda cleared some fog...really not a big deal...just when you see this so often...that same perplexing thought can taunt one... As for jeans at the hips on the ladies....wooohooo...droool....not a problem with me...now those I like!!...I was obviously referring to skater's pants... ronknights...no offense to you man but....[Then you see those ugly, sometimes hair asses sticking out.]....that really covered my keyboard with spittles of shooting coffee as I choked on that visionary undelight...your very descriptive in a radart kind of ways.... Cheers.

Tee-hee. My ass isn't very hairy, just to let you know. But my wife likes my ass, and that's all that counts. Jeepers! Now you'll spit all over your keyboard again!

Neither is mine Ron :) But more for genetic reasons than any other, aside from my head and "pubic regions" I've almost totally hairless. I must say I'd rather see a tight pair of jeans than a slack pair, and I do find "cargo" pants funny, especially if it upsets people when I laugh... :) I got a full arm tattoo, right arm, shoulder to wrist, I got it that big, A) because it came like that :) and B) because I could never afford to have it removed/regret it. It rarely sees the light of day, (bleaches the colour) and because I didn't get it for public consumption. I worked in an investment bank, never stopped me, people employ me for what I know, not what I look like, I got the tattoo aged 29, I've had it through ever job I've ever had post University. It's now officially part of me. I feel a bit "lopsided" at times, given a while I may even get my left shoulder done, I don't relish the prospect of the pain, but glucose tablets and a good book work wonders I find :) later jb

I rarely wear long sleeve shirts, even in the winter time. I just get too damned hot. I can't think of a single image that I can say I'd want on my body for the rest of my life. When it comes to employers, I must say the reality is that your appearance is part of the package. Many jobs will not hire people with pierced noses, lips, etc. You know what, I'd rather not see such people when I go to the store. Let them work in places where people like or expect to see that stuff. It's a choice someone makes when they get the job done. Let them be willing to "pay the price."

I love tats. I have a few myself. It's never prevented me from getting any job I really wanted. Long hair or a beard is usually more of a barrier to that. And when I was an employer myself, I damn sure wouldn't have hired anyone with the bad taste to wear those baggy hip hop pants. If I want to see someone's ass I'll work in a strip club.

ronknights - "I can't think of a single image that I can say I'd want on my body for the rest of my life."

And so for you it would be a bad idea. Some of us do have such images in mind or in ink - and for us to put those images on our own bodies is something I find hard to equate with a sort of spiritual naivet

I know it is normal for people to assume that their own choices or prejudices are the result of spiritual maturity - but that simply isn't always the case. You don't like them, cool. You don't like what it says about the personality of someone who has them...t hats cool too. You are free to evaluate people on that basis and many others...

What we wear on our skin, like our clothing choices, DOES tell someone something about us. And if that something is something you don't like that's all good.

I just don't think it indicates that someone is not as spiritually mature as you :)

**ronknights - ** "It's a choice someone makes when they get the job done. Let them be willing to "pay the price."

And they are usually. Those I know with ink simply don't have a problem getting the jobs they want - and they certainly don't really care if someone isn't going to hire or like them because of their ink. They made their choice.

Fortunately, they world is currently in favor of people with skill and talent - so if you are a talented programmer, designer, accountant or whatever it usually doesn't matter all that much whether you have a tattoo. And if a company doesn't see that - then it's no loss to me because I can promise I wouldn't have liked working for them anyway and my ink would have been only the beginning of my problems with them :)

**ronknights -  "**You know what, I'd rather not see such people when I go to the store."

I feel that way about unattractive flight attendants and customer service people. Sheesh, time was a company was allowed to acknowledge that for some jobs a pretty person is simply a nice thing for the customers, and good for business.

BTW - in the name of consistency that would mean that I don't think folks with extreme body work (tattoos or piercing) that were visible would make good flight attendants, too many people are turned off by it.

Ah well.