Entropy works in misterious ways. A lot of wasted energy around here lately. (no pun- just fascinated by the principle) Or is it just me? I agree. Maybe this will bring everybody to the same page. Change can sometimes be good. As long as everybody can get a fair hearing and input. This too, shall pass. Cheers, Paul Q

Lately I see a recurrent theme in Poserland.
Somebody (a vendor, a Poser site, whatever) wants to expand. They have only limited options how to do this and they use the easy (and sleazy) way. They try to stifle the competition. DAZ is not the first one to try it, and probably not the last.

All I can say is: This is not the way.

I'll just chime in with my support of the overwhelmingly obvious: The "shape" of Victoria, and the morphs that are part of that shape are not copyrightable entities. What IS protectable is the mesh. It MIGHT be possible to consider an automatic process that copied and modified that mesh as an infringement (coopy the mesh, reandomize and smooth as an example). But if I drag Vicky into Rhino, and make a curve network that will allow me to duplicate the shape to model clothing around there is absolutely NO claim there that Daz can make. They can try and threaten, they can ggo to court if they want but it is a simple fact of life.

Maybe DAZ is indeed opposed to what you describe, Soulhuntre - I have started a new thread (http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=765077) hoping for clarification of just this point, as I consider it essential, both to DAZ and the Poser community at large. After all, clothes creation becomes virtually impossible if even using a DAZ figure as reference makes the resulting clothes a infringement. DAZ has been very reasonable in the past, so I think and hope this is just a misunderstanding of a very understandable attempt by DAZ to protect their intellectual - but I'd like to know for sure, before I inadvertently break a law, or lure others into doing so.

Carolly, your comment is totally unjustified here. 1.) The Tailor has been out for several months. DAZ has had no official negative stance on Tailor. 2.) DAZ now is the exclusive vendor for Tailor. 3.) I came home, and at 10 pm, read a brief reference to DAZ's new policy in a message here at Renderosity. DAZ made no move to publicize that decision here at Renderosity. 4.) My work requires me to work till 9 pm Friday and then come back in at 9 am on Saturday. I'm wasting valuable time researching an issue that has been around for several months. In the end I delete most of my new Free Stuff items. 5.) I'm a paying customer, and I expect to get my money's worth. I expect Customer Serivice ASAP if it applies. 6.) As it stands, hundreds of products (many or most FREE items) have been prepared that now probably need to be removed. 7.) As it stands "might makes right." How many of us can afford to risk a threat from DAZ? I would be endangering our family financial situation by taking a chance that DAZ would pursue me. I certainly couldn't afford a fight in court. Hell I would probably lose my marriage for endangering our home this way. 8.) DAZ had every opportunity for all these months to tell us if they had a problem. Hell DAZ could have squashed the Tailor product before it got off the ground. Tell me, Carolly, have you bought the Tailor? Have you used any products prepared with The Tailor? Carolly, it appears you really don't give a squat about your fellow artists who have been greatly affected by DAZ's shady way of finally adopting a stance against the work that so many of us have done. That's too bad. Ron

Guys and gals : please lay off the "shady" and "sleazy", etc. Several Poser people have now asked DAZ for clarification, so let's let them have their say. I'm sure they gather from threads like this one that this is a very important matter, and they have been very sensible people in the past. The anger in many of the threads is understandable, but it may be unfounded, so please take a deep breath. Cheers, thip

DAZ's tactics so far smack of shady and sleazy. Hell, they waited several months to come out with this. I read it on a Friday night, and DAZ is conveniently closed for the weekend. I hate like hell to waste my time, money and energy buying a product which allows me to share Freebies, and then needing to remove them for fear of being sued.

Yep, sleazy is maybe not proper, but I'm ticked off.

To me this looks like an inoculation against one of the new features in Poser 5, or the start of a development kit stratagy. Let's not dramatize this untill we know more. NDA's can suck sometimes. Stay cool, no divorces, no gloom. Patience. Q

Hell I would probably lose my marriage for endangering our home this way. LOL..."till Daz do us part"?

Some question: Daz can put any thing that he wants with his copyright, but they are legal. He can put in his copyright that you can't use xxx method for creating derivate meshes, but if they haven't legal rights for forbiding you to use the xxx method, you can simple ignore what they say. The best thing is to find what is legal and was isn't in Daz copyright statements. Consult a lawyer and not what Daz is telling. Second point: If the Daz impositions are legal and this causes harm to the Poser community, just publish this restrictions in all Poser sites, and then nobody more will buy Daz's products.

And another point: The products that are sold at Renderosity and other sites, in general, are better that the ones that Daz sell

It seems to me like Daz are saying no-one else is allowed to make anything for poser that uses anything of theirs, that's fine while we have posette & dork to fall back on, but what happens when poser5 comes out and all the figures are from Daz? who has the final say in the matter then? I think CL has to take a stand on this as they own the copyright for poser & anything that goes with it. next thing you know Daz will be saying anyone who d/l cooler's banana is breaking the law cause it looks like theirs. Rob

Just posting because I want email back too.

but.... The rumour mill when it comes to Poser and Poser related merchandise has always been rampant and vicious. Things start out with an simple statement and end in an all out flame war. This is something that I just heard..I DO NOT know if this is true or not... I have heard that Poser5 will contain its own clothing "designer" in which any article of clothing can be made to fit any other character. (Again this is hearsay.) If this is true, the need for The Tailor will be eliminated. If this is also true, does this mean DAZ could sue the creator of the very program they make their living on because it contains a vehicle to potentially offer copyright violations. Napster was shut down because they offered the potential to copyright. They didn't offer the copyrighted material. Think about it. Think about this, too. If CL does indeed have a clothing morpher in P5 and if, as rumour has it, that P5 is going to be introduced at Siggraph (sp?), isn't rather convenient that DAZ had come up with such an announcement this close to Siggraph. Sounds more to me like one hand is washing the other and the consumer is getting the no grease/no kiss delivery. But like I said, the Poser rumour mill is a vicious place to be. It could all just be smake and mirrors from someone revels in stirring stuff up. I am going to remain indifferent about this until DAZ replies. But either way, as the end user, we are the true leaders of these companies. We dictate whether they succeed or fail. If these things do indeed happen, then the easiest recourse would be to stop buying until things change. And if we do stop buying, they will, quickly.

Bad Joke...ok. ok.. :) BUT! c1rcle said: "next thing you know Daz will be saying anyone who d/l cooler's banana is breaking the law cause it looks like theirs." Could anyone imagine Cooler being accused of warezing? LOL! If Alanis ever wrote an Ironic2, she could use that in a line of the song, "It's like Cooler being accused of distributing warez/Oh isn't it ironic..." =) I have heard that Cooler is employed by DAZ so it could very well be his banana, But, anyway, I'll stop trying to lighten the mood. Proceed....

Ron, Why don't you think a bit about what you are typing? You blame DAZ for starting this ruckus on a Friday night and then leaving. Huh? The message at PoserPros was an answer to a question raised by a member and was posted last TUESDAY afternoon. You could easily have read it Tuesday. Your arguments about lack of sleep, and having to work, etc., don't hold water. You get no pity from me. It is 6:30 AM my time, and I'm STILL up... but I don't need tiny violins to accompany what I write. The message at PoserPros is quite reasonable. It raises more questions, but it isn't a threat or ukase. When more questions are raised, they need to be calmly phrased, so the the difficulties are obvious, and so that solutions can be found. Calling names isn't going to help anybody find a solution. I simply don't understand why anyone is screaming about lawyers and getting sued, unless they like being the victim and want to be first in line before the firing squad. FYI, I don't own The Tailor, and haven't found a need for anything made or modified with it. I have purchased a goodly number of items from DAZ, from the Marketplace here, from BBay, and from private parties such as PhilC and Nerd. I only purchase quality items and have been well pleased. Sometimes I have been exceptionally delighted. However, even if I found a problem with an item or a position, I wouldn't insistently demand or expect that the provider be there at midnight to cater to my concerns. You are not going to get 24 hour service from a small friendly company... they let their employees sleep at night. ::sheesh!:: BTW, I care about my fellow artists. I don't find it necessary to brag about what I've done for them or moan about the sacrifices. What I do, I do for the sake of the doing, and nothing else. Carolly

Vicky clothed? What a strange idea....

The clothes are superfluos, Vicky, Stephanie and Posette only needs some skin texture and a hair, maybe also some ropes or chains.

LOL! I think ya nailed it there kawecki!

"Film at 11:00." Neighbors say: But they were such a quiet company... ;] Er... before we break out the tar, feathers and ropes for the lynching [as entertaining as that might be], does anyone have a link to where Daz themselves stated that Tailor modified clothing can't be distributed? I'm not seeing it - at their site or elsewhere. Not a statement from Daz anyway. And this seems contradictory to what they do say in their FAQ here: "Can new Accessories be created to work for Victoria 2.0 and Michael 2.0? Absolutely. We see a tremendous value in allowing (in fact, encouraging) other artists and developers to continue to create for Victoria and Michael. Victoria 2.0 and Michael 2.0 will not discourage this development. We will still have a free, downloadable CR2 file for Victoria and Michael containing all the originally released morphs. We have created another CR2 file that works with the new Victoria and Michael model with the P4 body that is also available for free on our website since the one with the product is non-distributable. This CR2 contains the original Victoria and Michael facial morphs" I'm just curious on that point. Either way... what JeffH said is pretty definitive: it wouldn't be enforceable [unless they buy off the copyright court judge]. As I understand it, the Tailor reads the morph info in the underlying figure, and then extrapolates pint positions and moves the vetices and points on the outer conformer to approximate the morphs in the conforming item. The conforming item, morphed or not, is still unique non-daz geometry that's been reshaped. Daz doesn't own the copyright to Valadars or Xurges or Billy-t's geometry, nor to any shaping mods made to it. They own their own morphs in the mil-figures geometry. Odds are pretty good a copyright court will back that interpretation, were someone foolish enough to sue on it. Odds are also pretty good that Daz wouldn't relish taking the gamble and losing the suit - the can of worms that'd open for them would make for good fishing for copyright attorneys. ;]

this all goes back to the posette hand knockoff figure from a while back. I said it then, done said it here once... you can not restrict common practice! the illustration with the radiator hose is very nicely put. Sad thing, no one ever said law and common sense were even remotely related :P DAZ is a small company and inherently small companies pay attention to their customers. I dont think them evil..and none of you should either. They may be overstepping boundaries, but until ya get more info...do like bear said and put the torches and ropes away for a bit :) ooooooh the drama! lol BT

"I have heard that Cooler is employed by DAZ so it could very well be his banana, " No he's not, Kevin. Cooler is a self employed mercenary working on his own nickle.

I wish it wasn't the weekend, then we'd maybe have an answer, it doesn't make sense tho, daz sells us something then tells us we can't use it for what it's meant to be used for. the tailor makes morph targets in clothes, but if we use it to do that we're breaking the law, someone needs to smell their coffee quick. Rob

2 Samuel "19 The beauty of Israel is slain upon thy high places: how are the mighty fallen! 20 Tell it not in Gath, publish it not in the streets of As'kelon; lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice, lest the daughters of the uncircumcised triumph." To think, only a few days ago, speaking ill of Daz here rated a spanking. Now, the blade of madame le guillotine is hungry for blood. I had a vague feeling when the Tailor came out that somehow, somewhere, someone would sense that money was being lost. Money makes people do strange thing. Throw in a lawyer or two and there'll be blood on the floor before it's over. I would take heart from the following: 1. Daz may be silly at times like everyone else, but they're probably not terminally stupid. 2. They're not that big and they'd prefer not to spend money on defending what may be a questionable case if they can find a face saving alternative. Negotiate, don't demand. If people's egos get involved, they become irrational. Peace, love, be cool. Why do I feel like Mary Balin on the stage at Altamont just before a Hell's Agnel cold cocked him with a pool cue?

the tailor makes morph targets in clothes, but if we use it to do that we're breaking the law, someone needs to smell their coffee quick.<<< Nah, that's not what they're saying. They're saying you can't share the morphs you make with tailor unless you're selling them on the DAZ site. Which is basically saying they want to have their cake and eat it. It's an indefensible position.

It's a marketing ploy, c1rcle. ;] Think about it: Codetwister: "Hrmmm... Tailor sales are dropping." Chad Smith: "Oh man... bummer dude..." Steve: "I know! Let's stir up a huge controversy at Rendo with a bogus announcement. Then everyone will panick thinking we're about to drop Tailor, and all the people who haven't bought it yet will rush out and grab it - credit cards in hands! Then in a week we announce we thought it through and it was all a mistake." Codetwister: "Nah.. That trick never works. Ask Rocky Squirrel" Chad Smith: "Worked for CuriousLabs on that amnesty thingy..." Steve: "Cooooooolllllllio. Let's do it!" snicker

The precceding conversation was made up by my two cats, Smoke and Sphynxx. No actual vendors or Daz personell were involved, and it is not meant to be taken as an actual conversation...

best thing to do really is wait till Monday and see what they have to say about it. could be all just mountain out of molehill again. Why would they drop something that's going to make them loads of money by making people buy the same clothing twice? Rob

ahem Turtle. That was Pariah. I stated that cooler is NOT employed by Daz. Of course the simplest way to do it is to like, ask cooler. And then decide if you believe his answer... Oh wait - that's not simple. That requires sending an email and then making a decision based on what someone tells one. ;]

Well first off Daz did not say many of the things people are saying they did. If you look very close at the post they made at PoserPros it simply is from their faq which has been on their site for months. However, there was an example they used where they would have a problem if the Tailor was used. It was Mikes catsuit where a person would use tailor to morph the catsuit using the Mike2 morphs. Then distribute the new catsuit with the Mike2 morphs so any one could essentially morph mike1 using the tailor. Thats the only example they gave. They also gave an example where it was okay to use the Tailor so I dont understand all the hoopla. Let them respond and see what they say to some of the miss information people seem to be spreading around. Ron

Carolly, you forget one important fact. Tailor came out several months ago. Now DAZ apparently is taking a stand saying that sharing Tailored clothes is a violation of copyright. DAZ most likely knew about Tailor before it was even for sale. I imagine Codetwister would have talked to DAZ an Curious Labs to be sure it was ok to sell the product. DAZ could have taken this stance before many of us bought the program, and before we had already shared our own Tailored versions of the clothes. DAZ's stance is listed at PoserPros. Apparently we are not able to list links to that thread here, because any such messages are deleted. DAZ's message on this topic makes it appear that I and others have violated copyrights, and that the only recourse we'd have would be to negotiate an exclusive deal with DAZ. That means no selling of the merchandise elsewhere, and no freebies.

Here is the actual quote. No where in it did Daz say you cant use the Tailor except under limited circumstances which to me are very fair. "There is little to no creative abilities within the bounds/code of the Tailor, simply tools to manipulate/transfer/organize, etc. And though Codetwister's application does allow some pretty unique results, this is not considered original creation or design. HOWEVER, and this is the big crucial "however", because the new cr2's generated by The Tailor still require that people possess both AIko and the Victoria Clothing Pak in order to make use of the new CR2's. Whenever a new character or product requires that both the figure that the morphs were transferred from and the figure that the morphs were transferred to be owned already by the users, then this process is legal. When this guideline is adhered to, neither DAZ, nor any of the artists that work cooperatively as Brokered Artists with DAZ, or any other creator for that matter, is damaged by such new creations. This does not mean that derivative characters cannot be made or sold if they work off of limited use CR2 files. In fact, there are many ways in which this can be done, whether it be via MOR Pose files (perhaps the most preferred method by us), OBJaction mover, etc. By "Limited Use CR2" I mean those that are non-distributable. In the case of DAZ's property, any Millennium Figure CR2 (other than say Michael 1.0, Victoria 1.0, or the Millennium Baby to name a few) is considered to be "non-distributable". What I want to address here though is the concept of "circumvention". This is the simplest and most accurate way to state DAZ's position on any such characters. The only thing DAZ considers unfair, and therefore illegal, is when someone creates a character that then makes it possible for people to truly benefit from the Millennium Figures CR2 contents without having to purchase the Millennium Figure itself. For example, if someone creates a CR2 file for Michael's Bodysuit that contains the Muscular3 morph from Michael 2.0 and then begins to distribute that new CR2 publicly or commercially, suddenly people who have never purchased Michael 2.0 will benefit from items included only within Michael 2.0. We feel that this is unfair, particularly when it creates a disincentive to purchase that original product. Basically, anything that circumvents the need to purchase an original product is most likely not allowed. There is another issue that needs to be addressed: Under normal licensing standpoints, it would be damaging to the sales of The Tailor, since people could get the morphs without purchasing The Tailor. But, "Codetwister" has relinquished all such rights openly and publicly, stating specifically that such practices are allowable. I have personally communicated with CodeTwister specifically on this issue and he has reaffirmed his desire not to restrict the use of his application with such copyright rules." Ron

This is legal double-talk. "HOWEVER, and this is the big crucial "however", because the new cr2's generated by The Tailor still require that people possess both AIko and the Victoria Clothing Pak in order to make use of the new CR2's. Whenever a new character or product requires that both the figure that the morphs were transferred from and the figure that the morphs were transferred to be owned already by the users, then this process is legal." Translation: Tailor is legal. **** "For example, if someone creates a CR2 file for Michael's Bodysuit that contains the Muscular3 morph from Michael 2.0 and then begins to distribute that new CR2 publicly or commercially, suddenly people who have never purchased Michael 2.0 will benefit from items included only within Michael 2.0. We feel that this is unfair, particularly when it creates a disincentive to purchase that original product. Basically, anything that circumvents the need to purchase an original product is most likely not allowed." Translation: Tailor is not legal. *** In both situations, you need the original figures or files for the Tailored clothes to work. By the way I did an experiment to see just what can be done with a morphable bodysuit. I used Michael 1 in this example. I put 2 different bodysuits on Mike 1. I then gave each bodysuit the Muscular3 morph. I didn't change Mike's body at all. The results look pretty convincing. In essence this means that the "officially-sanctioned Michael 2 clothing pack" can give Mike 1 the morphs that he lacks. Mike 1 just needs to wear the clothes to become a new man.

Look folks. Tempest in a teakettle. This is pretty simple - the Tailor transfers morph and point/vertex INFORMATION, not the morphs. It trasfers the positions of the points within the morph, and it creates an APPROXIMATION of those positions in the conforming geometry. Unless they can physically prove that Tailor is actually moving the morph to the clothing rather than translating the morph INFORMATION - ie the vertex positions and spacial information, they haven't a single legal leg to stand on in copyright court. And they can't prove that it's transferring the physical morphs because it's been proven and documented over and over again that you can't transger morphs from one geometry to a different geometry by people like Nerd, JeffH, Rob Wiesenant, PhilC and numerous other poser and modeling techicians. ALL you can do is approximate the morphs in a different figure by following the curves of the shape and creating a new morph in the different mesh. So.... Daz can make whatever policy they choose. And if you legally own the Tailor, then use it for the purposes for which it was lisenced and sold to you, and as long as you stay within established legal distribution policies and contracts, do as you will with your creations. And if someone wants to bring some ill considered suit against you - let em. You can search these forums and find all sorts of interesting documentation, a lot of it posted by Daz regarding legal distribution, to feed your lawyer. ;] That's a legal can of worms I doubt anyone is going to want opened in a copyright court.

"HOWEVER, and this is the big crucial "however", because the new cr2's generated by The Tailor still require that people possess both AIko and the Victoria Clothing Pak in order to make use of the new CR2's. Whenever a new character or product requires that both the figure that the morphs were transferred from and the figure that the morphs were transferred to be owned already by the users, then this process is legal." Translation: Tailor is legal.<< Yup, Tailor is legal. So is DISTRIBUTION of the FILES made with Tailor (or any OTHER program) >>"For example, if someone creates a CR2 file for Michael's Bodysuit that contains the Muscular3 morph from Michael 2.0 and then begins to distribute that new CR2 publicly or commercially, suddenly people who have never purchased Michael 2.0 will benefit from items included only within Michael 2.0. We feel that this is unfair, particularly when it creates a disincentive to purchase that original product. Basically, anything that circumvents the need to purchase an original product is most likely not allowed." Translation: Tailor is not legal.<< Wrong. Tailor is still legal. So is any other program that will allow the making of morphs. DISTRIBUTION of the FILES is illegal, not the program used to create the files. What I really, really, really do NOT understand is why this is such a huge deal. Everyone with even the least bit of sense KNOWS that there are just some things you cannot share without prior authorization. And even in the case of the "posette hand" incident that someone mentioned earlier somewhere, DAZ and the other party were able to work things out and come up with a compromise that enabled BOTH parties to benefit. Personally, I find this to be "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" ~ W. Shakespeare Kate

Kate, maybe you don't have the Tailor. Maybe you didn't distribute "Tailored" clothing items thinking your were legally ok?! I did distribute free Tailored Clothing items along with characters I'd legally created. I did my research, and had every reason to believe everything I've done is legal and acceptable to DAZ. Now I'm worried that I could be sued. "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing": Hogwash. This is a very distressing situation, and I can't help wonder why DAZ didn't make an issue over this months ago.

I tend to agree with Ironbear totally on this issue.

"Aye there's the rub, for in that sleep of death what dreams may come must give us pause.." :) Not that that's going to stop anyone :P "less signal, more noise, some of us have bandwitdh to waste." :) later jb

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=622782

Here's a thread from March, where I asked if it's permissable to distribute Free versions of Tailored clothes. And here are a few quotes: kupa: "Our position is that we would permit the transfer of user created CR2s that rely on geometry included with Poser to other Poser users, as long as the geometry referenced in the CR2, isn't transfered. This statement would be applicable only to content supplied with Poser. Other CR2 content and transferability questions should be addressed by the copyright holders. Personally, I would rather see people support Codetwister's tool by purchasing their own copy, rather than for a few Tailor users to convert every article and then distribute new Cr2s to the community. I believe that we should support the tool developer whenever possible. I guess that's predictable, coming from me ;-) Steve Cooper" **** Anton (PheonixRising) "Hi there, I don't mind either. I have already given people permission to use Tailor on my items at Daz. I guess so long as like Mike and Vicki2 the cr2 isn't the actual product. This program is a goddsend. I dread the 4000 millenium body morphs. It is good that people can just make morphs for what they use without a hundred dials cluttering things up. Long live Tailor. Anton Anton Kisiel design" *** You see I did my research, and have the thread and quotes to prove it. Now the current situation seems even stranger or more distressing.

I'm just glad I don't work for Daz doing public relations!

• walks up, dumps bucket of chum overboard, stirs vigorously *

Ron, I have the Tailor program. No, I haven't distributed any "tailored" items - YET. But if the items you distribute require the prior purchase of the models involved, and do NOT allow anyone who uses them to do so WITHOUT the models in question then DAZ has already said it's perfectly OK. I do, however, understand DAZ's point. Why would someone buy Mike 2.0, for example, if he could get the same effects by using Tailored clothes on Mike 1? Tailor was meant to do things like make posette clothes fit Vicky or make the Vicky clothes fit the Vicky morphs. It was not meant to be used to transfer Vicky 2 morphs to Vicky 1 or Posette. THIS is what DAZ is worried about happening, if I understand the FAQ and the post at PoserPros correctly. Actually, the way I see it, this is really no different than the other distribution limits for the v. 2.0 Millenium figures. You cannot distribute the .cr2 for them. You can distribute .pdf files, you can distribute .fc2 and .pz2 files, no problem there. This, I am sure, will all be settled in a similar fashion. In any case, I simply refuse to panic over it, and I would advise anyone else to adopt the same attitude. There have been similar cases where someone has misunderstood or misinterpreted something that DAZ or CL or someone else has said, panicked over it and then discovered that what they were so upset about, what they were so afraid of wasn't really the case at all. Not the first time that's happened, won't be the last. I say calm down, wait for the offices to open on Monday and then see what DAZ has to say and go from there. Give them time to wade through all of this so that they can properly address all the concerns and questions. Keep a cool head. Kate (going off to make some art now)

Same here, Little Dragon. HeHeHe!. Thanks for that. Q

ok the suject line is a joke :) BUT after reading the faq & legal bs at daz, it looks like they want the monopoly on making clothes for their figures, basically what I could understand was if anyone but them distributes any clothing or model made even remotely with one of their items it's not legal. Try this on for size : Daz brings out a new figure, great everyone says & rushes off to buy it, one slight snag no clothes available for it, won't be ready for a couple of months, bugger it says buyer I'll make my own and share them round so others will want to buy the figure too. Daz jumps on him from a great height cause he doesn't work for them & he's not allowed to make clothes for this wonderful new figure. Now there's still no clothes for the figure and no-one wants to buy it after seeing what happened to the poor soul who made clothes for it. Moral of the story is Daz rethink this or become obscelete very fast. The only reason Daz3D exists is because of the poser community, hurt the community and you may not survive it as a company. Rob.

I have stated my questions, and reservations, and have decided that I will add nothing more to this, except perhaps restating my specific questions. And the only people who can accurately answer these questions, and whose opinion I would trust, is the word of DAZ themselves. Therefore: 1) I created a character named Peytrov, a Mike2 character, whose body had soe FBM's applied. Not extremely distorted, but enough to make him more athletic and much more "cut". I then created a custom set of armor that will only fit him when the MOR pose file is applied to Mike2. Is this a violation? 2) I created a new clothing item called the Armorotica - completely original geometry, et al. I added in numerous morphs for it to conform to many of the Vicky2 FBM's, although it is so revealing that the morphs would not be able to be transferred back to a Vicky1 with the Tailor. Is this a violation? 3) If I create a new form of shirt and doublet for Mike2, then add in the morphs for this new clothing item to fit over the most significant Mike2 FBM's, would this be a violation? 4) If the answer to any of these questions is "Yes", is it grandfathered? In other words, do existing items need to be removed? Or does this "new" (note the quotes around new) policy only apply to items created after this announcement? These are my specific questions, which can help clarify the situation. Feel free to reply to them if you want, but until DAZ themselves answer them, I will still wait for my answer.

One note, the armor referred to in question 1 does NOT have any morphs of any kind... it just happens to be designed to fit a specific FBM.

Err, a specific set of partially applied FBM's. ^_^

Kate: "Tailor was meant to do things like make posette clothes fit Vicky or make the Vicky clothes fit the Vicky morphs. It was not meant to be used to transfer Vicky 2 morphs to Vicky 1 or Posette. THIS is what DAZ is worried about happening, if I understand the FAQ and the post at PoserPros correctly." Sorry, Tailor does NOT fit Posette clothes to Vicky, etc. Tailor only duplicates Vicky's body morphs onto Vicky's clothes. (Or Mike, etc.) Again, I will restate this question: "Why in God's green Earth did DAZ wait several months to voice an official objection to distributing "Tailored" clothing?!" If DAZ's official stance were known back in March, do you think Anton would give his blessings to Tailor and distributing FREE "Tailored" versions of his clothes? Do you think I'd put such clothes with my Free Stuff items? No.

Kate, Daz's example was distributing the .cr2 for the Michael body suit with a morph to make it fit Michael 2 because you could then have Michael 1 wear the body suit and approximate the Michael 2 body morph without owning Michael 2. Most clothing that fits Michael 2 or Vicki 2 will have that same issue. I could use the Tailor to put in a morph on a t-shirt that fits Vicki 2 with the breast8 morph. If I redistribute that t-shirt with that morph, I am in violation of Daz's new policy because Vicki 1 could wear it and look like she had the Vicki 2 breast8 morph. It doesn't matter if I created just the morph, or the t-shirt and the morph. It would still circumvent the need for Vicki 2. I have always been supportive of Daz, but I reserve the right to express my opinion on their policies and this one sucks. I don't think they thought through the ramifications of their "clarified" policy nor example. If Daz rethinks and restates the policy to something reasonable, then I will again stand behind them. If they follow through on this, I will stop doing business with them. It is that simple.