Jobs (Apple's chief scapegoat) has finally given long-time Mac users a choice after 17 years in which we never had to give a thought to getting a PC. During that time, we believed Macs were better, and that every Mac OS innovation would show up two years later in the next Windows release. We knew we had much fewer software choices than Windows users, but we were smug about our user-friendly OS. Then in 1999-2000, Apple made the fatal error of deciding to sell Unix work-stations during the fake prosperity of the Internet bubble years. Having dropped all support for the Mac platform, Apple is now competing with both PC and Unix workstation manufacturers in a declining market. Formerly loyal Mac users are familiar with the horror stories of bizarre OS X flaws (kernel panics, can't empty trash, mail doesn't work, can't find apps, beachball of death, can't log on) that would even make a hardened Win95 user blanch. These same users now realize that a switch to Win ME or XP will be no more troublesome or scary than a switch to a non-intuitive Unix workstation where they are forced to be a system admin instead of a software user, and every question they ask is met with condescending, defensive, obfuscatory command-line gibberish.

Attached Link: http://www.weirdass.net

Ahem, 1) my standard response- This silly argument has been going on for nearly twenty years. PCs are good for things, so are macs. You don't use a cuisineart to mow the lawn, and you don't use a ferrari to pull a plow. So do the math. 2) OSX 10.2 (Jaguar) just went golden master this week. Developers have been working with something close to its environment, but without GM you can't finish an app. So do the math. 3) PCs carry an impressive suite of capabilties. I might even buy one do to a real interest in what 3ds Max can do. As far as developing for the Mac- CL is a graphics ssoftware company. About 10-15% of the Wintel world is involved with graphics production, while 90-95% of the Mac world is image creation oriented. So do the math.

It's true that mac OS stability has come at a price. Now that I'm running OS X, I definitely feel much less in control of my operating system, much as I do on my Win 2000 machine at work. Locked folders of mysterious files... permissions issues, etc.. yeah, OS X is a mixed blessing. On the brighter side, it's rock solid. I bought my G4 in April and have yet to experience a system software crash. the closest I came was playing Wolfenstein. Wolf crashed and it didn't kill the OS, but I was stuck in full-screen gaming mode with no choice but to reboot :-( In 4 months though, I think one crash while running a ported-from-windows video game is pretty good!! I don't like having to be the one-man IT staff for my home unix computer, but I like how it doesn't crash. As for getting a PC to run 3DS Max... why? With Lightwave, Maya and Cinema 4D on the mac platform, I really don't see the need. I've worked in 3DS max at work, and I don't think it's so hot. I much prefer C4D and Lightwave on the Mac (on either platform, for that matter). If you find yourself longing just to try it, go ahead, but try it on someone else's machine--don't run out and buy the PC first... -Adam

" I fell asleep but now i am awake and my G4 is still there... And what the hell is BIOS?" even mac has a bios, just because apple hides it doesn't mean it's not there. no bios, the system has no clue how to access ram, the hd, nothing. mandrake now has available a version of mandrake linux, ported for the mac hardware. want to see what osx was supposed to be? get this. linux is a port of unix for pc platform, but since mandrake 6.1 and redhat 6.1, you do not need to even see the command prompt if you don't want to. they give you the option of booting straight into a gui as BOTH win and mac FORCE you to do. don't want to be a unix sysadmin? get linux, it automates it all, better than winblows does. and is as stable, or more stable than mac os.( win nt and mac os and unix/linux are all very similiar under the hood ...command prompt tool set) single button mouse? I use a three button mouse, why would I want to even loose one button (win) never mind 2? and remember, MAYA'S Linux version is better than either mac or win version. ~G~ as the os is better. according to alias wavefront, the producers of MAYA.

Okay, I'm doing the math: According to businessworld.com and MACCentral.com just under 3.5% of the market is Apple as of June 2002. Out of 10,000 users: Approximately 9650 are PC users. Approximately 350 are MAC users. If only 10% of the PC users do graphics, that's 965 users. If 95% of MAC users do graphics, that 333 users. (Yes, I rounded up.) Hmmm ... why target the PC market first? Sorry guys.

Legume started this war... will somebody reach over and give him the spanking he so obviously wanted. TIA.

silence

MAC or PC... there are no major differences if you are doing 2D graphics, audio or video editing. But for 3D the answer is clear : get a PC (either win2000 or win XP pro) !

Many 3D softwares don't run on MAC (Softimage, Houdini, StudioMAX, etc...)... And if there is a MAC version of the core application, then it's a plugin that is not compatible with the MAC OS (Next Limit Real Flow, Promethean FX, etc...) or a rendering engine. Moreover, hundreds of little useful applications (freeware modelers, texture generators, etc...) are only available for PCs.

Concerning "pure performance" the G4 are now very weak compared to the latest Athlon and Pentium processors. Most of the 3D softwares companies are even optimizing their applications for Athlon and Pentium 4 processors. Take for example the forthcoming Cinema 4D 8 : the rendering engine will be 30% faster. But only on PCs! And don't think that it's only "targeting" a bigger market. Here is the answer that MAXON gave to the MAC users :

---

"The new render speed improvements have been gained partly due to more optimised code, but also because Maxon is able to take advantage of the new features on modern processors such as the Athlon and Pentium 4.

Unfortunately there have been no such improvements on the Mac side because the G4 chip is beginning to show its age. Should a new chip be release by Apple, this would be supported as soon as possible. It is simply a fact that other than MHz increases, the Macintosh Processors have had no real improvements in recent years."

---

And this is something that even MAC users complain about. Apple release new cute little machines, but there is no improvement of the system itself. So, if you're into 3D graphics and animations : get yourself a PC. It means better performance, more choice and lower price !

:) Eric

Well good evening Tavern what can I say youve been a terrible audience and now you have to be PUNiiiiiiiiiiiiSHED!!!!!!!!! but more on that latter what about something loud raunchy and heavy just to get us moving We all came out to Montreaux On the Lake Geneva shoreline To make records with the Mobile We didnt have much time Frank Zappa and the Momas Would have the best place around But some stupid with a flare gun Burnt the place to the ground sorry, is this RADIO FREE IRONBEAR?

Let the bodies hit the floor, Let the bodies hit the floor, Let the bodies hit the floor, Let the Heeeyyyyyyyyy!

we are NOT getting screwed!! Poser 5 for OSX will be in beta very soon :-) Look how long we waited for mimic BUT if you have stuck in the past with OS9 well...... :-( OSXers have patience i dont plan on buying poser5 until the OSX Cinema or lightwave plugin is ready anyway relax :-)

WOW, thanks for session Legume. How much do I owe you...LOL? I forgot just how impressed you are with yourself. Everyone be aware that youd better not voice any opinion with Legume around...after all, we all know his is the only one that matters, regardless of how he makes himself look...Now, back to my wining ... a very nice Chianti...

Yes, Legume...what a gift you have for explaining it all. Now I can get some sleep and stop whining. Maybe tomorrow buy a PC...then e-mail Curious Labs and say "thanks" and "I'm sorry." Perhaps even attempt to engage or flatter Steve Cooper in as many posts as possible. Golly...so very much to do...

Yes, you are. In fact, you are the fuckingest TITS around. No one--and I mean--no one's fucking TITS even come close to your very own fucking TITS. I know what your thinking but no, no...not even ronknight's. Congratulations. Now please take one and pass the rest back...

I--and my tits--salute you...(and your tits, of course)

Now that does it. I skimmed through here and decided not to get involved in the "Mac vs PC" battle. You've gone too far. How do you know what my tits look like? I never posted a picture of myself bare-chested! I'm too ashamed of my fat body! Now you have to suffer by looking at my Fat, Magnificent Body. Oh, and yes, and believe it or not I was actually interested in a Mac recently, and asked a few questions about Macs. Just check out the Macintosh forum. I decided to stay with PC's. My understanding is that Poser for Macintosh is being delayed due to lack of cooperation from Apple. So if you have some complaints, then throw your darts at your beloved Apple Computer Company. 

Oh geez. Be afraid. Be very afraid...

LOL... Fat IS magnificent :)Never be ashamed of what the goddess gave ya Ron! If it wasn't for my plus-sized Adonis...I'd never have any new toys for my Vicky to play with :p Besides, who needs pillows when you have a big man (or woman) to snuggle with!

I was a bit chubby for a few years. However, I can thank my wife's home cooking for the bulk of my magnificent bulk. I've been married less than 3 years, and my lovely wife is an excellent cook. The hell of it is that I really don't eat all that much. Legume, this is probably the sexiest picture I can come up with, since I haven't had any taken without a shirt. Of course, I do have a web camera, but I think I'll spare the community such nonsense. 

If you weren't revolted enough by that image already, here is a picture of my wedding reception. I tried to dance with my lovely wife, but in the end, I gave up, went outside to have a cigarette and sat down to catch my breath. My wife swore that those lovely disposable 35mm cameras would be good enough to capture our wedding memories. Maybe she wasn't counting on the poor lighting in the church and the local Grange Hall. 

How does a thread about CL's developement of Poser 5 for the Mac become a thread about Ron Knight's body?? Anyway, everyone's missing the point: if you get a Mac, you can be COOL. The titanium coloring, the flat screen on a pedestal, the round mouse, the translucent coloring- it's just COOL! I'm not sure if you get to be COOL when you place the order for the Mac, when you open the box, or when you turn it on. However, I believe it comes with software that teaches you such key COOL phrases (for use in any debate) such as: "Buy a Mac" or "Your first mistake was buying a PC." or "I don't care if the Mac can't run [insert software title], it has a flat screen." --John

Oh, what's the matter John? Are you jealous of my magnificent fatness? Or Legume's handy artwork?! Legume, that is certainly a great picture! Believe it or not, about 20 years ago, I actually worked out, and had a "hardbody." The girls used to whistle at me, and I looked all around to see who they were whistling at. I can honestly say "I'm twice the man I used to be." At that time I weighed 155 lbos (6 ft tall). Now I weigh about 300. Whoopie. **** Oh John, at 51, I don't really care if I'm "cool." My homemade computer is totally unique, and it works. I guess that is good enough for me. I might buy a new computer. If I do, I might be cool because I can say "Dude, I'm gettin' a Dell."

LOL I'm already cool... Dude, I got a Dell! Anyhow, I had a Mac years ago. Was nicer than a pc back then. I like GUI's over command line (who doesn't?!?) It was good back then. I wouldn't overlook them now if they ran the types of software I wanted. But they don't, and for work we had pc's anyhow. Mac got left behind... and in my opinion, for what I use computers for, it'll never catch up. But to each their own. :)

"How does a thread about CL's developement of Poser 5 for the Mac become a thread about Ron Knight's body??" I don't know, but at least it's interesting now...

id rather look at MR knights than read the tired MAC VS PC Crap yet again. great diffusion technique Ron :-)

Actually one of the wierder things about the Apple "community" is that they love the machines, but have a rather ambivalent attitude towards Apple itself. later jb

Im glad to see this thread isnt locked.
Because Ive read it again and others like it, and its all left me with this mind boggling question, Ive come back to this thread in search for answers.

Someone put that Mac users often have to wait for longer periods of time for things than Windows users.

I am asking, what are all these great thingies for which we wait?

Theres Poser 5, OK, its a bit slow.
Then there was Mimic. Two whole years with no Mac version, and faithfully staying at 1.0. (?)
I dont hear any loud outcry for 3dsMax. Can anyone else? Perhaps those nearest the window?

Please could someone enlighten me as to what these people are talking about. Firewire? DVD-R? USB? Wireless networking?
Only 3D seems not to be taken serious by the graphic-arts industry or community.