I figured it out, you started the thread about the registration info just to get a big uproar going. ~g~ just want to see how gullible people are? it has degenerated to a screaming match between people against the software dongle and people for the application.

In all honesty, I was hoping to quell two shouting matches taking place on previous threads by distilling people's questions and concerns and providing truthful answers. Can't win 'em all...

Well, I for one appreciate it!!!!!

As do I Anthony. I'm just glad that CL grabbed up Poser and ran with it. Thanks in advance for Poser 5 - can't wait to give it a try!

Thanks! :-) Poser 5 rocks. Plain and simple. You all will be blown away.

Damn, Anthony! Thanks a lot for reminding me that instead of the joys of exploring P5 this long weekend, I have to settle for spending time with family and friends, sleeping in, eating well, relaxing outside a bit with a good (SF) book, catching a movie or two...Ah...Oh, yeah...those are good things! :-) Hope everyone has a great weekend! Elisa/gryffnn

Speaking of good SF book - Check outmy announcement in the Writers forum! :-)

No, folks, he did not pay me for that straight line! ;-)

I, too, appreciate Nos' and CLs' participation in these discussions and showing that at least they are willing to engage their customers in active dialog in order to overcome any obstacles. So, for what it's worth, thanks Nos and CL for providing the information that you have in these discussions.

You all will be blown away. Then start hauling ass on the Mac version. Sheesh... I'm sure there're good reasons why (1) the installation disks weren't made cross-platform this time around and (2) the Mac version has to wait. So entertain me with them.

anthony, with all due respect and sympathy (and i really mean it) for you and cl, you couldn't expect that people give themselves contend with what you've said. imho, if you would have said, "see, here are the figures, if we don't do this copy protection now, we loose xxxxx bucks to piracy." it would be simple and for everyone understandible. but you brought just some unappropriate metaphors so it's no wonder that people are pissed off. from my experience, and i made until today at least 100 authorizations, the internet-based codes exchange doesn't work in 15 %. either is server down, java & co. are disabled, firewalls let nothing through and similar. i, for myself would gladly register with my full name and adress (as i do often), if i don't have to authorize my software every time something changes (i know, i have three free beers :)).

VirtualSite, at least you KNOW that your system will have a version. as far as I know cl isn't working on a linux port at all. and I won't use winblows. you should have been there when I saw that Mac's come with ie, the screech of horror snapped necks.( as people spun to see what was wrong ) ~g~

Anthony, interesting, and hear I figured getting people riled was your sadistic thrill around here. ~wink~

Hmm, let's see... 1) People get riled & speculate about issue. 2) People get more riled b/c CL has not replied to issue. 3) I address #2 to the best of my ability. 4) People get even more riled & speculate even more. My conclusion? "A very interesting game... The only winning move is not to play" - WarGames I think I'll take that advice. This is my last post on anything having to do with installation/registration issues until we can discuss them coolly and calmly.

/me think Nosfiratu really needs time away from forums and computers and enjoy the holiday weekend.. Hint Hint SMILE Honestly Nosfiratu.. please go have a good holiday the world will not fall apart while you rest and relax.. despite what some people believe

hmmm....~`plotting here~.....hack the system ban all cl staff until tuesday from every 3d graphics site...yeah that's the ticket, they will either work on p5 or take a break.

just joking with ya. but a good basic idea to take long weekend off.

It's not as if CL have packaged rabid pitbulls in the box with poser5, who will attack you the moment you open the box without having a lump of steak handy to pacify them. Anybody who's used or even installed WinXP knows what the protection is going to be like, it's not such a big deal as some make it out to be, but some people just don't want to listen to reason at the moment. Have a good weekend everyone :) Rob

I'd like to ask Nosfiratu a question... Are there 3rd party companies working on models for Poser 5 approved by CL? Like Daz3d? If so can we expect any new advances in realistic figures like muscule architechture, like Maya figures have, is poser even capable of that feature? Thnaks

Hmm, let's see... 1) People get riled & speculate about issue. 2) People get more riled b/c CL has not replied to issue. 3) I address #2 to the best of my ability. 4) People get even more riled & speculate even more. Anthony, you just can't win. People don't know when they're well off! Hey, you people! When was the last time you saw Bill Gates in a forum trying to explain the company's reasoning behind a new product? In your dreams! mac

Jaqui... with all due respect, you can't really believe that CL will port to Linux? Where is the market? Poser is already a small niche market and porting to Linux would give them how many more sales out of that niche market? Lightwave users have been asking for a Linux port as well and they're user base is quite large. Newtek though did recently add network rendering support for Linux - but NOT Lightwave itself. It takes alot of coding hours (as I'm sure you understand) to revamp code for a new operating system. Right now Windows and Mac are the winners. Perhaps when Lindows appears you'll be able to use Poser 5 on that platform. Here's hoping! Maclean... you probably shouldn't even waste your breath. The majority of the people here that are against CL's copy protection system won't be changing their minds. Those that vow not to buy the software will eventually buy it because they can't bear NOT to have a certain feature or features. And if they don't, who cares? It's NOT the majority and sales will soon see that. Like you said: People don't know when they're well off! C1rcle... you're right about that: (Anybody who's used or even installed WinXP knows what the protection is going to be like, it's not such a big deal as some make it out to be, but some people just don't want to listen to reason at the moment.) No, they just want it THEIR WAY and if they don't get it THEIR WAY they'll go sulk in the corner after shouting that they're not gonna buy it. Aleks... you say: (and i made until today at least 100 authorizations, the internet-based codes exchange doesn't work in 15 %. either is server down, java & co. are disabled, firewalls let nothing through and similar.) SO? So what if the internet authorization for Poser5 DOESN'T work "today?" You have a GRACE PERIOD of probably two weeks. Try to use reason. Okay, it didn't go through today... I'll try tomorrow. And if it doesn't work tomorrow, then you send CL sales an e-mail or get on this forum and since luckily CL people constantly check this forum you'll be taken care of. Morgana... you want what Maya has (a $2000 program in it's least-active version; spend $7000? for the full version) in a program that costs less than $350? I have no idea what CL is conjuring for the next release and I hope it's what you're asking for - but don't expect it. There's a rather large price difference:) Come on people. Try to use a little REASON. I know it's difficult when you're upset but go take a 24 hour timeout. Geeze.

megalodon, it's not that i'm afraid that it won't work and that i can't use poser for few days. with currently 6 apps demanding authorizations and couple of pcs, it's just overwhelmingly inconvenient and tedious. yet now one could show me that it's worth it. i bet that there won't pass a mere week when cracks and patches become available. think also about money spent. cl said they have a team of scientists working on that code. they don't work for cookies. add to that possible loss because people get pissed off and/or worried about (possible) unfairness who won't buy an update and bad image cl gets in the community. is it worth it? adding all that, wouldn't they fare better if they just kept the old reg. proccess? there's also another catch: can you be really sure what data are transfered to software producers? you remember intel processors sending data "home", win xp, media player, and so on... we have only the word from cl that it isn't happening now, but the others told us the same initialy. and since this request code is built on your hardware - figure it out yourself. if cl doesn't trust you to keep your software secure, why should you trust them (any software company)?

Aleks, what choice do you really have? You can buy the software or choose not to. Yes, it's inconvenient - tedious only because you have so many apps that require authorization. But why should CL be the ONE company to say "okay, we'll take the copy protection off because too many other programs have it on"? Why not tell the other company's (who are no doubt larger than CL) to do just that? About the money spent... well, it's already spent. You may remember when they were releasing ProPack all of the whining that went on about copy protection then on this forum. The point is, CL knew this would not be popular but they still went ahead and did it. So what? It's what THEY felt they needed to do. If I tell you to do something that I feel YOU should do because it makes sense to me - that doesn't mean it'll make sense to you! And... you probably won't do it! :) Regarding the copy protection being worth it... I have no doubt that cracks will be available VERY soon. I believe that this is MAINLY for the casual copier making it for friends - it keeps them honest. And before people start arguing about "why should I suffer" - we all suffer all of the time with higher prices on goods at the store because of shoplifting and other theft. And what about the cameras all around the store? DO they assume everyone is a shoplifter? No, but they are for the shoplifter - but all shoppers know it's there and it DOES affect ALL shoppers just the same. They just may deter the average shoplifter. The same with Poser5 copy protection. Perhaps John would copy it for his friend Jim - but he can't because the copy protection is in place... Jim plays with it on Johns computer and says "this is cool, I've got to get one" and he ends up buying the app instead of STEALING it. About the "there's also another catch."... yes, you trust CL to do what they say they're gonna do. Why? Because you only have two choices. To buy or not to buy the software. If you don't trust them, don't buy. YES, it's one more bit of aggravation - but it's such an incredibly SMALL bit of aggravation compared to what you're getting in return. If people end up not buying the software because of the copy protection, fine. It's they who are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. You can't please everyone. And those who don't buy it... well... I believe that they are in the VAST minority. And like I said in the previous thread, once they see what everyone else is saying and doing with this program, they'll break down and buy it anyway. You'll see. For me, I trust CL to do what they say. The copy protection is an annoyance but a very small one and NOT one that would deter me from buying the software. I'm honest and I don't foresee any great hassles - which will hopefully be the case. I think Poser is a great product and I'm VERY glad that CL picked up the Poser ball and continued to develop it. YES, they're doing it so they can make money, but that's what businesses do. Fortunately we both benefit. I support CL fully on this. And those who don't like it... well, keep complaining. I don't care. I'm buying Poser5. And 6 and 7 and... as long as they keep innovating, I'm there!

lol, i get your point and can understand it very well. and i see you know what i think about it. it certainly won't stop me from buying p5 (which i already ordered) i just feel that this whole stuff is getting out of hands. as someone put it in another thread, first it's serial number, than it's authorization code, than xyz-protection that doesn't prevent product from being cracked and copied and then? render on demand with web-based code and authorization before each rendering? and this is what we're talking about: it all simply doesn't help! now if i had a choice, as you put it, i may be reconsidering buying p5. but i don't have a choice. poser is the only software that does what it does. cl has de facto monopoly on ready-made poseable human figures. same with windows. if i want to keep my multimedia bussiness running i have to have windows and macs. i have no choice. my hope was that smaller companies like cl would be nearer to their customers and listen to them more often then big ones like adobe or discreet. as i bought the upgrade from max 3 to 4, i had to go through the same process with auth. codes (though they want it you to do it only once, if you install it on a new machine it stays the same). i was supposed to do it via their homepage but it didn't work. their html code was faulty and it wouldn't accept my serial number. i tried to email them and after two days without answer i called them. one arrogant jerk on the other side was very unhelpfull and wouldn't understand that their internet authorization proccess isn't working and only after i gave him full data about myself and the vendor where i bought it, he was willing to send me the code. it was major pain in the ***! so i'm really not looking forward for another software that may put me in similar situation.

Aleks, believe me - I hear your pain. I've got it too! In a perfect world we and companies wouldn't need this sort of stuff. Unforunately... we don;t live in that world - yet! I hear what you're saying about small companies and big ones. The problem is, it's the smaller companies that are more vulnerable to theft. Hopefully things will get better. I doubt they will in the near future, but we can always hope!

Sadly all your post did was throw more gas on an overheated fire. Welcome to the wonderful world of customer relations, Nosfiratu. :-) I agree with all of those who say that the copy protection will barely last out the week after P5 is released. Heck, it may not last 24 hours. Serious crackers take this stuff very personally and they are some of the best code slingers out there. On a personal level challenge/repsonse systems are a PITA, but then so is the AVS system that seems to want to do everything it can to prevent me from ordering P5. We won't even mention the obsene shipping charges to Canada, which I know aren't under your control so it isn't your fault. All that said I will order it, somehow. For those who think that activation takes but a few minutes..give your heads a collective shake. Getting the activation code on a preinstalled XP system on my Sony Viao took well over 6 hours to accomplish, most of it on ignore in M$'s voice response system after the internet activation failed. I won't go into why here because it isn't relevant but it certainly soured me on activation and challenge response systems. Jaqui... with all due respect, you can't really believe that CL will port to Linux? Where is the market? Poser is already a small niche market and porting to Linux would give them how many more sales out of that niche market? Actually as the Mac X OS is based on BSD which is very similar to Linux so a port to Linux should be fairly trivial and the POSIX market is hardly a small niche when you take UNIX into account. Yes, it's inconvenient - tedious only because you have so many apps that require authorization...it's one more bit of aggravation - but it's such an incredibly SMALL bit of aggravation compared to what you're getting in return. Sigh. Okay..with one app it's a small aggrivation with a number of them plus an intrusive OS it becomes a major pain juggling them all. Remember when Bill Gates said using computers should be easy? It's a bit of a joke now. Let's also be honest here...a lot of the resistance to activation codes comes from bitter experience with them with M$ product when their version of it is, essentially, spyware. I TRUST CL not to do that. So I'll accept it. I could live without it in a perfect world. And, until we have some other company come along that can do what Poser can without this kind of copy protection I reaaly don't have any choice. Still..don't tell me I have to approve of it or be happy about it. {VENT OFF} ttfn John

I should preview my posts. :-) I qouted Megalodon a couple of times there. The citations didn't come through. Sorry about that. :-) ttfn John

TtfnJohn... I agree with you about the copy protection. And... "the challenge/repsonse systems are a PITA." Yes, they are. And when all added up they amount to alot. My point is... why should CL be singled out? They are like everyone else. Should they discontinue their copy protection system just because someone like you (and me) has alot of apps that require the same (or similar) sort of work to get them up and running? My sister has only a few apps that require it. It doesn't bother her. She had NO problems with XP and the other apps. Yet you've had bad luck. The point here is, not everyone has the same aggravation. Is this not true? Regarding the port to Linux... As I said before, Lightwave users have been requesting a port to Linux for a LONG time. We don't have it. On the LW forum one person said that it shouldn't be too difficult because of the similarities with the Mac system - then a programmer responded saying that that was not quite true. VERY SIMILAR does not make it VERY EASY. A Linux port would require ALOT of new coding and recoding. I am not a programmer so I cannot confirm nor deny this. But since more people have been asking for the LW Linux version than the Poser Linux version and nothing yet, well... And again... how many more sales would they achieve with their efforts? I don't like the copy protection either. My "venting" is because people say they're not gonna buy the software simply BECAUSE it has copy protection. Fine. Don't buy it. I don't like the aggravation either but it IS SMALL compared to what you get. Really... is that NOT obvious? If it wasn't, people like you John (and me), wouldn't buy it.

megalodon, depending on the libraries used for the graphics rendering ( display) and language the application is coded in. if opengl is used in the windows version, it is actually an extremely simple port to linux, in c. the mesagl libraries are a completely transparent port of opengl to linux, changing the lib call to the mesa lib. and the c language will port to other os all by itself otherwise.

Jaqui, If it WERE that easy why wouldn't these ports to Linux NOT be done? If it doesn't take that long and they can get a few more sales, then why not? Lightwave hasn't been ported after ALOT of people have requested it. Why not if it's that easy? Again, I know NOTHING about programming. But... I would guess that if WERE that easy it would have already been done. It would be interesting to see what CL would say.

well, you do have to go into every source file and make the change, time consuming. the sources for the gimp are around 50 mb of text files. the c language is the only one that is truly portable like that though, if written in another language it is a lot harder. a lot of apps are being coded in python and perl, not as easily ported. and it is only the newset version of mesa that is that good a clone.

Well... it would be VERY nice to see more applications ported to Linux. I guess we'll just have to keep asking - the more vendors that comply and port to Linux... and providing people buy from them, the more lucrative it will look to other vendors and hopefully they'll port as well. I would love to get away from M$, but until they're is something almost as good... well... Maybe Lindows will help.

It is my understanding that python and perl both got their start on *nix systems, therefore, it would seem to me that a port based off these programming languages would be easier than, say, VB or some other "Windows" type technology. The problem with portability, as I see it from someone who had programming experience way back when, is the initial methods used to code the software in the first place. Now that we have GUI-driven development environments, it seems that it has become "next to impossible" to port anything from one system to another. I wonder if that is due to the fact that these GUI tools obscure the code underneath and some of the new software developers have less of an understanding of the underlying language? Likewise, from the user perspective, the GUI has "crippled" most peoples' intimate knowledge of the software and its interactions, meaning that you have to provide the same "GUI-style" interface to the *nix port or else the majority of the people will not know how to use the software. I am sure that there is a market for such applications on *nix systems, and they will surface. Maybe not from CL, but other sources who see the value in extending their portfolios to "non-traditional" OSes.

Hi CyberStretch I strongly suspect that Poser is written in C/C++ with maybe some assembler code thrown in to speed things up a bit. A 3-D app written in an interpreted language like VB would crawl on even the fastest of systems. :-) The idea of GUIs, at least initially, was to hide the internals of a machine or even an OS so that a coder could simply call the GUI and it would do the neat things like make windows, set up menus and all that trivial stuff. In theory the C/C++ code should be easy to port..make a few changes to the GUI calls and you're done. In practise it's a bit more complex than that, of course. The real killer in a port is assembler. That may have to be recoded at length to get it from Windows to Mac, for example. Now the trick with porting it to *nix once its done in OS X is that there is a compliler that will take that code and convert it to LSB Linux, BSD (which OS X is), Sun or IBM. For Linux it will target either KDE or GNOME and use thier calls. The trick with a port to *nix is that the GUI portion could port that way but the assembler couldn't. The assembler is written for Intel chips in the Windows version but PowerPC for the Mac. With luck the Intel version is OS independant which should, in theory again, make the port fairly simple if not trivial. It would be nice to get a *nix version and I'm sure it will come in time. Maya already sells one and there are rumours about others. I've heard rumblings of 3DS Max and Bryce versions on the way. So perhaps CL won't be far behind. Until then megalodon is right...Lindows should help or perhaps even Codeweaver's Wine. ttfn John

TTfn, Thanks for expanding on the "portability" issue. Hopefully, someday we will see an OS-iondependant version of every useful software application. Also, I was under the impression that Lindows was far from being a "commercially viable alternative to Windows"? Are there other distros that would make the transition more readily available/easier? I also heard that there were stability issues with Wine when using intensive applications. Have these issues been pretty much addressed?