Very well said, CyberStretch. Kate, I also have a Costco card as well as a Bi-Mart card, but flashing a card at an employee posted at the door as you enter is not an inconvenience. You don't have to enter a code or receive a brand new access registration every time you wish to enter the store. As far as registering software, I always register mine (maybe some of the cheapy under $10 games I've bought at Office Depot or something I haven't always bothered, but my expensive ones I always register for upgrade purposes), it's just that most software companies don't REQUIRE registratiion in order to make the program work. In some ways, CL reminds me of the Borg on Star Trek. "You will be assimilated! Resistance is futile!" Register or else we won't let you use the program you just paid hard-earned money to use. It's sort of a subtle form of blackmail. This is what I'm so opposed to. It's the force that's being put on their customers. If I should eventually choose to jump in and buy it, I'll follow their ridiculous instructions, but I don't have to like it. In the meantime, I'm hoping that maybe they'll change their minds and ease up on the restrictive manner in which we're allowed to use their software. Melanie

CyberStretch... You say: "Most of the registration processes you describe are one time only, unlike the CL and MS activation processes that require multiple registrations under certain circumstances." And let's say that you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. But MOST is not ALL. The car registration example Kate uses is a prime example. If you DON'T register your car every year you CAN'T legally drive it. If you DON'T register Poser5 each time you put it on your machine you CAN'T use it. CL has decided to move in a certain direction. While I'm sure none of us really likes this process, it's very much like the car registration. We don't want to have to do it, but in order to use it we must. Look, as I said earlier, it's obvious that everyone has formed their opinion and it's not likely to be changed. Some just have a harder time than others seeing the similarities in everyday things we already take for granted - I have not figured out which category I fall into. It all comes down to "is the software important enough to me to put up with the hassle?" If it is, you'll buy it - and if it isn't, you won't. Enough said!

mega, While is it "obvious that everyone has formed their opinion and it's not likely to be changed", some people like to think that logically discussing an issue can lead to a compromise or a solution that is acceptable by everyone. Some also believe that change is only possible through stating your opinion and exchanging those thoughts and ideas with others. CL does have a presence here and, I am sure, will read a good percentage of the posts. As was evidenced in the past with the PPP release, public opinion can, and often does, influence companies to re-evaluate their position in order to placate their consumers' concerns. Likewise, there are others who frequent these forums who may benefit from the discussion when they decide to launch their commercial endeavors, if they have not already done so. So far, the majority of the discussion has been constructive; with the occasional outburst from someone who has reached wits end and calls for an end to the discussion. For those who feel that more discussion is warranted, the discussion will continue until nothing is left to be said and it gracefully fades. For those who do not, I suppose they will spend more time pursuing other posts/threads with more meaning and relevance to them.

CyberStretch, You are correct - CL does have a presence here and they more than likely read a good percentage of the posts. The problem is, this is the same discussion we all had back when ProPack was being released. CL relented then. Do you think that they forgot that particular uproar and just went ahead this time with this copy protection anyway? Not likely. I will wager that this time there will be NO relenting no matter what opinions are expressed here. And please, don't get me wrong - It is VERY important that people convey their opinions. My sole "problem" is that people talked about why they weren't going to buy Poser5 without thinking about all of the other things they put up with in life ONLY because they've become so used to them, i.e. car registration. And this is only ONE item where it is relevant - I am sure we put up with ALOT more than this. My point is... CL is not the only entity doing this. THINK about the other things in your life that you HAVE to put up with and put everything in perspective. That's all. Express your opinions? ABSOLUTELY. And also... use your (everyone including me) brain!

mega, In my opinion, any company that does not take serious heed of its customers desires will not be around long enough to matter much anyway. Therefore, if CL does value their customers, a compromise surely would be in order - given the amount of people who have taken the time to post their opposing thoughts and opinions about the activation scheme. Just because people follow the law, does not mean they like it or even approve it. Unfortunately, for most people, politics have grown to the point where you are "damned if you do, damned if you don't"; therefore many people give up feeling that they have a snowball's chance in Hell of ever changing anything. These are the sad "mindless sheep" that accept any and every law, regardless of how adversely it affects them or infringes upon their children or their childrens' children. The saying "You can't fight city hall" has become their mantra. It is far easier to sit back and do nothing than it is to place yourself in the spotlight and demand that things change. Due to years upon years of people blindly following without questioning authority, we are the sad recipients of our ancestors' failings. Granted, we have a voice and can change things, but everyone knows that humanity, as a whole, has an extreme adversity to any changes. Therefore, those who will and do take action, generally do so in a concerted and very well calculated manner. However, there is a lot more power to be wielded by a focused group of people as diverse and geographically dispersed as those who purchase CLs' products. Chances are, you would be hard pressed to scare up a handful of Poser users within your local geographical region. However, here on R'osity and other sites, the small user populations can unite and voice their opinions to a hopefully receptive company; as there is strength in numbers. Since we are so diverse and dispersed, they cannot tie the mentality to the usual demographics. It is more of a plea to CL and others to bring back the focus as customers being the top priority than it is about the activation scheme; although that is the current vehicle of many users' displeasure. Perhaps it is those that claim to see who are at fault, because they concentrate on the world as it is presented to them vs the world they could have if they only had the guts and stamina to stand up for what they believe in vs allowing others to tell them what will and will not be? Every little step you allow anyone to take that slightly diminshes your rights is one more step to a world in which you will have no rights whatsoever. Usually, whatever is lost is only gained back by an exponential amount of blood, sweat, and tears when compared to what it takes to lose it. I would venture a guess that most people here have grown up in an era where software licensing - in some form or another - was the norm. However, some of us remember the good old days when once you purchased something, you had every legal right to do with it as you pleased. What some of us are doing is finally standing on our own two feet and stating firmly that this is enough. Others have transgressed far enough into our personal space and freedoms and we will no longer take whatever they say as gospel lying down. It takes someone with a spine and strong vocal cords to change anything. If you sit back and say nothing, nothing will ever change; except that little by little, the life you enjoy now will be taken piece by piece from under your feet until you really open your eyes to see the truth. Some of us have lived long enough to see this happen and we are trying to forewarn those with less life experience. Others will need to experience it on their own, hopefully before they wake up one day and realize that they have no power whatsoever to change anything because they laid complacent for so long.

Cyberstretch, besides being completely in agreement to what you've been saying, I must say thatI am both astounded and surprised with your ability to "tell it like it is" without being snippy or coming off as overbearing!! Easy to read, easy to understand your points and views, without seeming like you are "ranting" or standing on a virtual soapbox. Ever think of doing PR work? :o) Jack

"Ever think of doing PR work? :o)" If the price is right, every man's soul is for sale. LOL

CyberStretch, For the most part, I agree with you. But... more to the point of my last post - do you NOT remember the tremendous uproar over the ProPack release? CL did not enter into this Poser5 protection this time lightly. They KNEW that they would be in for this sort of reaction - and yet they did it anyway. Many people will BUY the software anyway even though they don't like the protection (I can't imagine ANYONE who WOULD like the protection) because there is no other software out there that does everything that Poser does in ONE package - AND... like you said, "...every man's soul is for sale." And YES, unless we put our foot down things will not change - however... I choose my battles. Some people think that software copy protection is paramount. Others, such as myself, would rather focus on more human issues such as ethnic conflicts and starvation (which before you ask, I am quite active in.) Expend your energy where it will really count to change things to help PEOPLE live. Unfortunately... it is too easy to get caught up in the less-severe issues of our time rather than focus on the immediate human needs now. You and others here may take your stand on copy protection and that is fine. But, like I said before: "...it's obvious that everyone has formed their opinion and it's not likely to be changed." Considering your steadfastness to yours, I seriously doubt whether your opinion would have been swayed. Regardless of the intelligent conversations and opposing viewpoints presented in this forum, I sincerely doubt that ANYONE'S opinion here has changed. Yes, it's very good to talk about these things. But... for the most part, the only thing that's accomplished is informing others of a particular viewpoint and showing CL that their copy protection is not appreciated. We do what we must. Good luck with your fight.

1-Software Registration Dongles- But, It's just a "little more inconvenient" 2-Software Auto-Update, Auto Billing But it's just a "little more inconvenient" 3-Software Yearly Rental Agreements- But it's just a "little more inconvenient" 4-Software Rental for Each Usage Session- But it's just a "little more inconvenient" Make no mistake about it, this is the road that the music industry, Microsoft, Disney, Oracle & others would like to take us down. Continue to support their efforts if you wish but know what you'r getting into. I have to register my car because not enough people complained at the time this policy was instituted. Besides, I Need a car to make a living. I don't Need hobby software. I won't consider buying P5 either if this isn't corrected.

If I remember correctly, it was only by "accident" that someone noticed the activation plans in the low-res version of the P5 manual. Unlike many of the fine posts by Kupa and others showing off the highlights of P5 to get the potential consumers drooling over what they can do, this received no regal fanfare and, apparently, was an attempt to slip under the radar of most users since a vast majority of users never even read a EULA agreement. In fact, I believe the legality of all EULAs has been questioned by lawmakers before, if not still on-going, due to the fact that most people never read them in the first place. Again, CL did try this before and with enough clamor from the consumers, it was dropped. Regardless if they added it back in or not, that does show some semblance of altering company policy based upon consumer feedback. So, if nothing else, there is a glimmer of hope - no matter how small or dim it may be - that they will once again recognize the error of their ways and do something proactive about it. Back into current reality: Since they did reintroduce the activation scheme after knowing that a good percentage of consumers opposed it in the past, that shows - to me at least - there is a sort of veneer-type face that they put on themselves in public to get the users to deify CL to the point where they can do no wrong, while in practice they could care less. Therefore, this should cause a little more concern than the average Poser user seems to be exhibiting. As for the other ethnical and international issues you mention, just because someone is overtly vocal about one form of "oppression" (ie, slowly losing personal digital rights) does not mean that they are not actively involved in other arenas as well. I have taken part in many activities for such causes and will continue to do so in the future. In relation to this thread, there is very little, if indeed any, relevance to its inclusion in the discussion. Hopefully, CL has had the opportunity to read through the discussions and will present their internal motivations so the rest of us do not have to continue to speculate off the minute information we have had to glean from several sources.

Ok

...If you DON'T register your car every year you CAN'T legally drive it. If you DON'T register Poser5 each time you put it on your machine you CAN'T use it. There are two glaring aspects that nullify this as an argument. 1. Car registration is imposed not by the manufacturer but by the government. It is a related but entirely separate matter. 2. The proceeds from car registration are theoretically used to benefit the public by providing funds to maintain roadways, etc, etc. While the benefit to CL is obvious the benefit to its' public is less clear. And please don't tell me that it is necessary if I want Poser to survive as a product so I may continue to use it. Software is like life on earth. Something will always come along to fill an ecological niche and if it's not Poser it will be something else. I don't mind entering serial numbers when installing software. I don't even mind registering if it is a one time process. But I have been subjected to similar protection schemes in the past and it has always proven to be a PITA! So put me in the category who will not buy P5 with such a protection system active. While I cannot avoid all inconveniences or inequities in life I will avoid those I can. It happens that P5 is eminently avoidable. - Jack

"In fact, I believe the legality of all EULAs has been questioned by lawmakers before, if not still on-going, " They're still ongoing. There's suits and even a couple of class actions either currently ongoing or pending on just that subject in California and a couple of other states. Wether they'll have any effect on EULA's and rulings on the legalities of the contracts therein... quien sabe? Too early to tell. Even if they make it into eventual court cases and get rulings, if those rulings are in favor of the plaintiffs there'll still be the endless rounds of appeals, out of court settlements and other maneuvers to go through.

IB, Thanks for the update.

Np. That was a bit vague, but I looked at my favorites folder where I tend to shove links to stuff like that, kind of blanched at the thought of hunting through several pages of bookmarks for the ones I was thinking of, and said "aw screw it, that's why the gods invented Alltheweb.com". There are a ton of links out there on EULA's, the legal aspects, and various suits and challenges though... it's just a matter of wanting to hunt through links and wade through the legalese. More than I cared for at 7am. ;]

Dude, I dual-boot because of Poser... If it wasn't for Poser, Rhino, and Vue d'Esprit, I'd have ditched Windows a looooooooong time ago :) In either case, Codeweavers, Lindows, Transgaming Technologies, and good ol' winehq.org have each advanced WINE to the point where it looks quite feasible to run Poser under wine with no hangups. I managed to pull off a render in Poser under wine nearly a year ago using WineX from Transgaming, though it wasn't all that stable. Meanwhile, Win2k does the job well enough. If CL decides within the next couple of years not to go with a Linux version, then I'll start looking seriously at Shake and Maya, or at anyone willing to code a PoserClone for Linux for that matter (shrug). But for now, I already have Win2k, so I may as well run Poser in that. /P