Hi there, Been playing with morphs and wasn't sure if I mentioned this yet. We solved glowing nostrils with just lighting and morphs...no props or anything used. Seems we could have had this back in P3...oh well. I guess you learn things when you are meant to discover them. The problem was never really the renderer. Only global lights can create shadows complex enough to eliminate the glow. But even with lighting I found that we had overlooked some suble details to the cavity of the nose. It has to do with the way the noses were made. :) Without those details there is no way for the mesh to "trap" the light. Obviously you would have to render using shadows. V3 won't glow in proper lighting, but I am checking to see if the Millennnium family has enough res to correct the issue. I'll keep you posted. If there is we might be able to provide a freebie pack with a nose fix for each figure. But first I have to see if the meshes will allow for the fixes. I think Michael(MallenLane) deserves a community award for showing global lights were posible in Poser. V3test mesh(experimental morph) rendered in P4. Take Care, Anton Daz3D

My typing is so brutal. I wince everytime I read one of my posts. :

You spell Phoenix wrong too. It's my given name, and I'm heartily offended. ;) Kidding! I've noticed that unless one is very very careful, Poser figures still have glowing nostrils when rendered in other apps, so I've long assumed it was the meshes. Actually, this is a common problem in 3D figures, not just Poser. I figured they jus needed some nostril hair. ;) Phoenix

What you mean Pheonix isn't spelled that way....?!? :) I was in a store a few weeks ago and noticed a woman who had been in some sort of accident. Her nose was heavily recontructed to the best of it's ability and it reminded me of a 3d figure. It occurred to me then to look more closely at the mesh.

LOL! Poor lady. Well, thank you Anton. It'll be great to see what you've come up with. Phoenix

Anton, she looks great! Hope she going to have good shoulders. And dials on the head for moving both eye up-down and side-side simultaneously. That's useful when posing so you don't have to separately select each eye - and really convenient for animation. I can add them like I did on my P4FemMagic, but it would be nice to get her that way. Elisa/gryffnn

I don't think a dial that moves both eyes simultaneously is going to work. That would mean both eyes would automatically have the same values and the thing is - at least V2's eyes don't work like that. If you use the same value for both eyes, she'll look crossed eyed no matter what (at least with anything other than minimal change in the dial values).

OK, we also hope V3's eyes rotate accurately! Yes - sometimes I have to adjust the eyes to get the right look, especially at the extremes from some camera angles, but it's often OK for small changes in angle and a lot faster than posing each eye step-by-step, especially in animations. For something that has to be more precise, I've also used Point-At on the eyes to a dummy object that's animated. Now that I think of it, wasn't there some fix that we did on Vicky or Mike that corrected the eye rotation on one or both eyes? I wish I had kept a record of all the updates and fixes I did on them. I'm glad Poser 5 can access multiple runtime folders, so I don't have to mess up my system or reinstall figures!

People have been talking about the joints and such alot. Just to throw something out for your opinion. You guys do realize that if we improve her joint setup, existing clothes won't fit anymore. Are people ready to move into new clothing sets and loose backwards compatibility? Sort of a double-edged sword. How do you feel about that? Anton

gryffnn, Consider this. Human eyes never face absolutely forward. Always have each one turned outward by 1 even when she is looking side to side. But an slaved ERC channel like those in the dragon could allow for an optional dual eye rotation. Nice idea. Anton

Stop it! I am already so tempted by that dragon, even though I can't think of how I'd use it, just to play with all those morphs and ERCs! ;-) Yup, I love it that we've got more asymmetry in figures, I always add a bit to faces and expressions (Xprssns!)

I really would not be ready to move to a new clothing set. That's my idea of a nightmare in Poserland just now. I suppose it would be possible for DAZ to release a "V2 Fit" version with the V3 head like they did with the V2P4, but my preference, if it's possible, would be to put more work into fixing the joint issues with JCMs. As the arms raise, automatically apply a morph that fixes the underarms, back and chest. I am only a bit familiar with this sort of thing, so I don't know if I'm talking sense here. Phoenix

After I posted I saw my idea had been mentioned already. Anyway, these eyes are a VAST improvement over Vicki 2's eyes. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the improvements.

Anton, If you change the joint parameters but keep the overall mesh shape and groupings, you can just make a JNT pose to refit all existing clothing to the new joint parameters. It won't be perfect, but you can at least get the joint centres in the right place. Personally I think that would be fine.

"Are people ready to move into new clothing sets and loose backwards compatibility?" IMHO, YES! As an example, have Dina and have played with the newer Vina (Vicky clothes/joint compatable.) Beauty of Dina compared to Vicky is a far superior joint setup, and smoother (higher resolution) mesh. Dina saves a lot of post-work on the joints, and surfaces are much "rounder." (Eg. the fingernails...) I know a lot of folks will scream if joints aren't compatable, any chance of two versions? Looks like P5 will make fitting and joint setup of clothing much less critical anyway... THANX!

Clothes. Anton how I feel is if they conform better with out breaks, we should move forward. I like many people will keep poser 4 and learn 5, but we have to keep the 4 on our computers to make pictures, while we learn the new 5 program. 5 is going to be a whole new ballgame, So your the leading designer in Poser, You make it for 5, we will buy it. Very simple, some of us don't care about making our own things, so you will always have buyers.

I'm looking forward to using Poser 5's Judy with the new P5 Face Room, but her joints don't look to be greatly improved, especially looking at frames in the animation - although it could be that the renders we've seen so far don't show them to best advantage. I take it V3 has a higher resolution head, but it seems better shoulders, elbows, hips and knees would be a big selling point too, especially as folks' computers continue to get more powerful. I haven't invested a lot in V2 clothes (waiting to see P5's fabric capabilities), but a V2 body alternate would probably be necessary.

Gryffnn, lol. In many ways the dragon is the most advanced Millennium figure just for sheer complexity. Playing with it can be a full time job. The only problem with JCM is that the skin could end up morphing through the clothes in unexpected spots. I always wondered why noone ever tried using them on the eyes to automatically control the eyelids. COnforming clothes with the exact same joint centers tend to pop or explode at random settings. If a peice of clothing ever pops at one setting but not at another it is because the joints are too close to the figure's. Most clothes I can think of have different joints. But I hear what you are saying. I made pose files in the past to convert many cr2's to new parameters. Joint physics in Poser remain the same regardless of version. I don't think there are any new joint features or enhancements in this coming version, aside from them being set up like Mike and Vicki. But oh that would be nice. I always thought it would be cool if the MatSpheres where morphable. jchimim, I haven't seen any Dina images is awhile. Is there a gallery just for her somewhere? Her fingers are beautiful. We are tossing some new ideas around. And it is nice to get feedback. If anyone wants to email be and talk about it that is fine too. I can pass feedback along. Anton anton@daz3d.com

I think you should move forward and make your characters as perfect as you can. Sacrificing better joints for backwards compatibility with old clothes might be good for PR in the short term. But in the long run, it'll hurt you. Soon, people will forget the favor of backwards compatibility, but they will continue to bitch about the joints for as long as the problem exists. You're going to have to do it sooner or later, so it's best to get it over with as soon as you can. Some will bitch, but most people understand and want progress. Another point: as it is, you have to fix the joints in postwork. So, with new joints, you'll have to fix the clothes in postwork. The advantage with new joints is you're moving forward and new clothes will be around soon enough.

So did you add that bottom nostril lip to the nostrils in the new V3? I know that would help prevent glow as an additional light blocker and real noses have that lip anyway, so more realistic. Really a lip goes all the way around the nostil opening, but is most apparant at the base of the nostril opening.

Wow, anton love the new Vicki and I would vote for new joints, just don't put her out too soon my wallet can't take much more of this upgrade stuff all in such a short time.

She looks great! What texture is that on her?

Is it just me or is there something in the overall construction of the head that doesn't look quite right? While the individual pieces are very nice, somehow the proportions seem off somewhere, although I can't put my finger on where precisely. But something about the size of the nose and the jawline and what looks like the thickness of the neck, almost like again we started with a man's head and shoved and pushed and pulled into a reasonable but not quite accurate approximation of a woman's.

Anton, haven't seen any galleries dedicated to a specific model... Might be worth searching on Dina or Vina in the galleries here...

Hi Anton. I had to think about the pros and cons for a while, but I too would like Vicky (and Mike) 3.0 to be the best they can be, so better joints and better morphing capability would be great. We are supposed to be offered new, dinamic clothes for our characters anyway... We would still have version 2.0 of the Millennium figures to use the old clothing. I would like to see reasonably priced update for some of the most used clotes though, like vicky clothing pak 1, but maybe we could make them fit in P5 Cloth Room. Maybe you should make a survey to determine what DAZ users would like to see implemented in the version 3 of the Mill Figures and Mimic 2, so you could have a much more reliable feedback. BTW you at DAZ did a great work on Vicky 3, the eyes and texture look really good.

Re the joints - we'd definitely like to see better ones. Mike and Vicki are much easier to work with that way than the p4 figures and less post work required, but any improvement would be welcome. Thing is you can usually reproduce a clothing texture in post, if you need to cover up some bad folds or a hole, but you start doing that with your skin texture and it's very hard not to make a patch of something different, especially if it's high res and a close up. (Speaking from the point of view of someone who does a lot of naked figures - M) Madrigal and Badmoon http://www.cauldron-arts.com

Instead of a joint file to change the clothes JPs, how about supplying a joint file that would change Vicki and Mike 3's JPs back to version 2's JPs when old clothes want to be used? It'd be smaller than supplying extra figures for backwards compatibility, would work with all old clothes, and the better JPs are still available for using new clothes or the rare nude you see every once in a blue moon. Just a thought. I want to have my cake and eat it too. I'd love to have new improved joints, but I want some backwards compatibility option, too.

Good thinking FyreSpiryt. That way you could use your old poses too.

That is a good idea. Things to think about and weigh for sure. Thanks.

I think Jackson and Staby are right, make the next ones as brilliantly innovative as you can. If that means redesigning parts of the mesh or cutting it differently, as opposed to just tweeking joint parameters, why not? I'm satisfied for now with the P5 and Millennium characters, but they're not perfect - especially for animation, where post-work clean up of joint folds, etc. is impractical. I'll be easily tempted to buy others that are true advances, not just more of the same.

If she's not going to be compatible with Victoria 1 & 2 morphs and clothes, or if she's going to have any differences that would require different MAT files, PLEASE do not call her Victoria 3 just because she started with the same mesh and is considered the next in that product line. That is going to become very confusing, and there are already people confused about which characters can share morphs or textures. DAZ doesn't need to muddle things further. Offering upgrade prices from Victoria 1 or 2 ought to be enough to get across to people that it's an upgrade :) but if this is not a compatible figure it's a new figure and deserves a new name. Begging here. :) Phoenix

If what is being done with what you are calling V3, negates previous Victoria morphs, it is a new figure and it must have a new name. It is hard enough now, with some thinking there is a difference between V1 & V2 as far as morphs are concerned. Introducing a new figure with the same name but all new groups = pure chaos Mapping compatibility is the least of it.

Ok cool. I will pass along a suggestion for a new name. Thanks.

If there's a whatever2v sort of thing, taking current Victoria stuff the way V2P4 takes Posette stuff, you could call it V3 and give the new figure a fresh name, then you'd have the Victoria name in the marketing guff but avoid the confusion of incompatible figures with the same name (and you could say the package contained V3 and new-temple-explorer, which would boost the perceived value).

!!! Impressive texture, WOW!! Im speechless.. Excellent job. The eyes are just beautiful.