I keep reading bits and pieces referring to some Poser-like program DAZ may or may not be working on. What is currently known about this project?

The only people who know anything about it are Daz and they ain't talking. The rest of us know SFA so far. Rob

Until Daz shows us that this a reality its vaporware :-) believe it when you see it

They better stop messing with their e-store first, because it is nothing but troubles trying to place an order for quite some time by now. Promises after promises to enhance things, but still bugs and unability to place correct orders, orders at all or getting correct software. Has anybody tried to order over this week-end by the way? Try and be amazed (or should I better say disappointed).

The new program is real and under development. How gaseous it is you will have to judge for yourself as time goes on. I posted in an earlier thread a request that users post wishlists for what they would want in a desktop 3D app. If there is something that you would like to see please post it. Even if it does not appear in any initial versions it may be included later. Think big, think out of the box. Think about the entire process you go through to create an image or animation. What would you like to see to make that process easier, faster, less painful? In a perfect, blue sky world, what would you like to have? What would you like to be able to do that you can't do now? New, fresh ideas are always welcome. Developers don't read minds so if you don't ask for it, it will not be considered a priority. The first stage in properly managed software development is getting and analyzing user requirements. Well constructed software will also have flexibity to expand and include new requirements over time. You usually can't get everything that everyone wants every time so you try and make a well-balanced app that meets as many of the requirements as possible. Even if CL or Daz don't pick up on a request, there are a number of other developers out there who might. BTW, before anyone bitches at me about the Daz e-store I can truthfully say I had nothing to do with it. I don't do that web programming stuff.

John, * Even if CL or Daz don't pick up on a request, there are a number of other developers out there who might * If someone could provide hosting for a public wishlist, preferrably not on R'osity, in case of any conflict of interest issues, it would be greatly appreciated. Bill

Well, whatever sort of program it turns out to be, if it uses those stupid trackballs for camera and light control, it's not gonna be something I will pay for. Those @#%$% imprecise, aggravating, totally worthless trackball controls are the one thing I absolutely HATE about poser and the reason that I don't do ANY lighting or camera setup in poser at all, ever. I just place my objects and pose my people and then export to some other program for lighting and camera work.

Unfortunately I can't do it either as I would immediately be in conflict myself since I am currently trying to beat my portion of the new Daz code into submission. That's why I was asking users to go ahead and post on the various forums where it will be relatively open and free to all. CL had/has a wishlist but the take is closed to everyone but CL and Daz does not have one at this time.

KateTheShrew - what would you like instead of a trackball? BTW, you are not the only person to express the desire for something other than the trackball. Although the trackball has a certain intuitive feel for newbies, a lot of the more advanced users have expressed varying levels of dissatisfaction with it.

If it could export to Vue without problem, it could be great Laurent

Look at the lighting model in Bryce to see how it can be done efficiently. I wouldn't dream of trying to make serious use of the Poser lighting model.

jbrugion- so did anyone post a wishlist? Is there a thread here at Renderosity? -- Steve S.

I'd like to see camera and light controls like Max has personally for any new 3D program. Thye're easy to setup and change...Not to mention click and drag for object placement Poser drives me crazy for that.

Just like P4, except it doesn't eat up your memory. Sub and sub sub catagories for the libraries

I don't mind the trackball per se; I just don't like it being so big! Of all the graphics programs I have, I like the interface of Vue's the best. I like the idea of having a usuable 4-window screen; which Poser doesn't really have. Yes, it does have a 4-window screen, it just isn't usuable in my opinion because of everything else getting in the way. Vue's interface does have a trackball, but it is small and out of the way. I also like the way it handles lights; at least I like it considerably more than Poser's. However, I do like the materials room in Poser 5 better than Vue's material editor. That may be because it is easier for me.

Here are a few things off the top of my head: mouse wheel support for zooming in and out, right-click support, the option to render just one object, an area of the scene, or the whole scene... There will be more, just give me some time ;)

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12418&Form.ShowMessage=881147

It's Vaporware, not Vapourware. Next thing you'll know you'll start spelling gray as grey :-) That was a really nice starter entry on the list! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

...It's Vaporware, not Vapourware. Ahhh... so you are saying that the English do not make Vaporware, only Americans? ... grin... I'll second the need for library subcategories and a four port window. I'd also like an easy, preferably automated, way to remove library items no longer needed. - Jack Valero

I'd like very, very flexible libraries, maybe more like the thumbnail browser in Paint Shop Pro, so you can put different file types together. All the Vicki hair, clothes, props in one spot if you want, or all the hair together and clothes together, etc.

Please include a multi-channel animation timeline with a bezier curve graph editor.multi Ik targeting and Dynamic parenting ,BVH support and Export to Cinema 4DXl In fact dont bother with a fancy internal render engine build the program specifically for DAZ character poseing animation and EXPORT to C4DXL ,LW bryce, vue ,MAX, truespace and the world will be yours!!!! :-)

if it uses those stupid trackballs for camera and light control<<< Kate if ya dont like the trackball then just use the dials, the trackball is useful for quickly getting the camera per say into position then using the dials to fine tune. Both systems of control have their pros and cons.

Wolf, Thank you for mentioning trueSpace, too! :)

I agree with WOLF. Poser 5 is trying to do too much new stuff and does not do any of them well. Make a decent posing prgram and plug-in and I will name my first child after you... or at least rename my great dane. K.I.S.S.! Poser 5 making me look seriously at Credo's Lifeform!!!!

I agree with Wolf also. IMO, P5 would have been much better with less flash and more stability and useability. About the trackball thing...I think Vue did it best. They included a trackball in version 4, but you can also click in the window and drag the object, drag settings (like dials) in a separate window, or type in exact values. Whatever the user prefers. I also like Vue's object tree. You can group and ungroup and move to different layers, etc, etc. It's extremely user-friendly. You can even choose not to render certain layers and turn them off to unclutter your work. That reminds me...AREA RENDER!!!! Like Bryce's spray can or Vue's Area Render. And, of course, dual processor & network support and all the other stuff everyone does these days. Er, everyone except CL, that is.

I think the message was that Americans make Vaporware, whereas the Brits make Vapourware.

I like the trackball :)

Australian's spell it grey ;) Everything Sue88 said. Plus plop render like Bryce. No cross talk. A face room type thing but for the Millenium figures. The ability to dump materials. I hate that Poser doesn't do that unless you shut it down. A better render engine. Collision detection (although that's way down on my list ... I enjoy doing postwork) Better joint setup for any new characters that might be included. You know Vicki, Mike and Steph really suck in those area's :) Lighting setup more like Bryce. Although I like the lighting in Poser, the shadows are just a pain in the butt. True reflections that actually work with transmapped objects.

I'd like a MAC VERSION, please.

A plug-in sdk so third-parties can develop new functionality for your app. This is one of the reasons that max is so popular.

Oh yeah ... Definately a Mac version :)

Yeah Sorry I forgot to put windows and mac - and, of course linux compatibility on my wishlist/manifesto. Bill

to answer your question, jbrugion, I would prefer something along the lines of what is available in Vue. There I can see at a glance EXACTLY where my camera or light is placed in the scene. I can see which way it is pointing, how high it is off the ground, how far from a wall, etc. I can't see any of this in Poser. And if I want to move a light or a camera, all I have to do is click on it in the display window and drag it into position, or grab one of the handles and rotate it to change the basic angle (and then use the controls in the side bar to fine tune it). If I want it higher or lower, I can simply choose the correct viewing window and then drag it up or down. Can't do that with the lousy setup in Poser unless you're a freakin' mathematician. (which is why I'm not overly fond of those darn parameter dials either. What the heck is Yaw anyway??) Kate

Well wishlist wise, I'd like an option that set all the morph dials to zero on a part. It could be a python script even? It's just somthing that eats large blocks of time for me, when I spawn a new morph I have to turn what I don't want to zero and then turn it all back on one at a time. Sometimes that's 20 dials over and over. Also multiple undo and undo after you've deleted somthing. Better support for extreme scaling of the bodyparts of figures. In poser that creates problems but it's such a basic thing. Swappable parts like xtra limbs and wings would be cool, like mr. potato head ;-).

Yep, a Mac version that is simultaneously released with a PC version. :)

FYI, to quickly reset a single dial Alt-click on it - Elisa

WOW, if this thing really becomes a tangible item, Ill be all over it; or at least seriously evaluating it. Posers biggest problem is that there is absolutely no competition to keep it honest. CLs updates to P4 never took care of glaring problems from its original release. P5 is laden with problems, not to mention bailing on a consecutive multi platform release. DAZ or VUE or someone has a real opportunity here to make use all of the information and feedback on these forums and produce a real kick-ass application ... if nothing else ... itll at least provide a choice...

Could DAZ buy the Mac version of Poser 5?

My wishlist: Sets/Room Builder - a program that makes it easy to construct settings and sets--indoor, outdoor, all kinds. Something that would allow you to design interior rooms--walls, floors, windows, doors, furnishings, the whole ball of wax--and exterior buildings (including facades, streets, grounds, everything) with a minimum of effort, and then be able to realistically render them from any angle. Something along the line of current floorplan programs, perhaps, but with more detail and designed for rendering, not printing out. Clothing Builder - Wouldn't it be great if we could draw lines on a 2D figure where we want sleeves, collars, buttons, fronts, pants, etc. to be, and then have them extrapolated into a 3D model? Greater still if that 3D model could be customized for P4 or Millenium figures at the touch of a button. Wouldn't it be great if there were templates for different kinds of clothes--modern, classic, fantasy, futuristic--and uniforms too, so we could just call up the template and customize it as we see fit? Wouldn't it be great too if we could download a dress or clothing pattern and import it into Clothing Builder, and have the program build a Poser-ready clothing model from the pattern for us? Mesh Enhancer - I am so SICK of adding morphs to clothing items to match the contours of the character, only to find that I have to turn nearly all the character's body parts OFF because they're breaking through the clothing mesh. Couldn't we have a program that calculated the number of polygons in a character model, compared that number to the polys in the clothing, and then adjusted the polygon levels of the clothing automatically so that they cover the model, regardless of how it is morphed? Posability - Nothing aginst Curious Labs, but I find the Setup room very frustrating to use. Instead of having to place bones everywhere, why can't the program calculate where the bones and bendable joints should be? Why can't we have a program that uses a wizard to determine if the figure is a biped, quadraped, or other, then based on measurements in the database, reads the dimensions of that model, and then reconstructs it with the bones in place? Or, why can't we have the ability to simply draw a box around a limb with our mouse, and have the bone assigned to that limb based on the boundries of the limb? We should then be able to lock or unlock the limb as we see fit, so that the bones don't overlap when drawing bounding boxes around adjacent limbs. Misc - Please, elimiinate crosstalk and give us collision detection. I'm tired of putting my figures hands through their legs! That's about it; hope this gives you some ideas, and I'm looking forward to seeing the new product when it comes out. (P.S.: This has nothing to do with the software under development, more with DAZ. It wouuld be nice if we could subscribe to DAZ for an annual fee and then download all the models we want, instead of having to pay for them individually.)

HandspanStudios FYI, use ctrl-E (possibly command-E) to reset a particular actor back to its default settings. Sometimes it pays to read that flimsy card that comes with the app ;) Bill

Oh thanks.

KateTheShrew and all other lightball haters: I agree that the lights trackball is a nightmare. Ignore it! Learn to use integers on "the dials" and you just might come to agree with my opinion that lighting in Poser is underrated and over-criticized. Numeric lighting is far more powerful and accurate than that silly ball, which looks like a needless nod to ye olde Bryce GUI. I usually use the auxillery view for creating and positioning new spotlights. Use "point at" so they'll remain focussed even if the object they're pointed at is moved. I frequently take advantage of Poser's alleged "underlit" quality intentionally, since wondrous things can be done in Photoshop, later. This technique lessens the possibility of overexposed areas, a problem many Poser artists seem not to be aware is hurting their work. Wishes for a new Poser-like app: 1. ProPack-like boning capabilities native to the app rather than part of an addon. 2. The ability to toggle between bright gobal setup lighting and the actual lights used at render time. 3. No chance of crosstalk. 4. Ability to assign different operations to mousewheel (zoom, scroll through libraries, intensify lights, focal length, etc.) 5. Compatability (wherever legally possible) with existing meshes and textures intended for Poser. 6. Cost USA $400.00 or less so that there may still be excellent apps available to the "amatuer/hobbiest" throngs as well as "professionals" accustomed to higher-end apps. Oh, and free coffee. Please give me free coffee. Thank you.

HandspanStudios Actually, that question is raised quite frequently on this forum, so as a suggestion for a program enhancement, it would be a pretty good idea to have a 'reset all' button on the dial set, rather than relying on knowledge of obscure keyboard shortcuts to be disseminated 'hand to mouth' on the forums. Bill

Well what I was imagining was somthing more like how you can link layers in psp, so you could set dials to link together and turn them all off and on. It would mainly be helpful to somone that works with large stacks of morphs and I don't know how many people that is though. The shortcut's great for turning everything off, wish I'd known that about a year ago :).

... maybe just a shift click to select multiple dials?

... oh yeah and a 'delete morph' from within the program. I have to use Morph Manager to do that now.

... unless I've missed something again ;-).

"rather than relying on knowledge of obscure keyboard shortcuts to be disseminated 'hand to mouth' on the forums" I believe it's also available in the Figure menu, not to mention the - dare I say it - manual.

It's under 'edit' and believe me I am aware that it's stupid of me not to have noticed, so taunting me about it is kind of redundant.

Handspan, another nice addition in Poser 5 does that - click the triangle to the right of the dial and choose Delete from the drop-down menu. You can also do it from the Hierarchy window in Poser 4, but it's a bit quirky. Now that we can sort morph dials into groups, it WOULD be nice if you could toggle an entire group between 1 and 0. The nice thing about Control-E is that it resets to the saved value, which may not be 0 on all the dials. Like Victoria 2 has its Victoria 2 face dial default at 1. HTH - Elisa/gryffnn

Handspan .. You can do that in Poser 4 .. Delete the morphs I mean ... It is kind of tedious though since you have to do it one at a time.