The new system is up and running, but it cost a grand to build. Luckily, I was able to sell enough stuff on eBay to pay for it (a big thanks to those buyers!). Nonetheless, my coffers are low and my available credit even lower. :) Obviously, 3DStudio Max 5 or Maya Unlimited 4.5 would be ideal for any 3D graphics work, but their prices are way out of my range at this time. Anyway, I'm a hobbyist and not a professional so they would be overkill (but nice '). I can't find any 'used' high-end 3D software for sale. One guy on eBay has Maya Unlimited 4.0 for $500, but his response left me wondering: he'd send me a CD COPY of HIS software? That doesn't sound very registerable, usable or upgradeable, now does it? To the point: Here's a list of software that I've found here and at 3D Cafe and I would be supremely interested in your opinions on their efficacy compared to price and features that make them more worthy than others: Expensive: 3D Studio Max 5 $3195 Maya UL 4.5 $2000 LightWave 3D 7.5 $1595 Rhino 3D 2.0 $ 800 Mid-Range: RealSoft 3D $ 699 Imagine 3D $ 550 Z Brush $ 399 Carrara 2 $ 399 Amapi 3D 6.1 $ 399 Inexpensive: Bryce 5 $ 300 trueSpace $ 300 Animation: Master $ 290 Vue d'Esprit $ 200 Feel free to add your personal favorites not listed here or to illuminate why any of those listed are not flexible or are more specialized than for general 3D graphics modelling and rendering. I know that this is a lot to ask and if you can point to an online resource instead, all the better! Kuroyume

Kuroyume, I'm using Carrara 2 for Poser clothing. Concidering you also get Amapi 5.1 I concider it among the better of the lower end software. I find that the interface (qwerky yes, but) is somewaht complimentary to Poser (they were designed by MetaCreations). It has enough power in it's Vertex modeler to build decent clothing and such (see Pic, jacket, shirt and shoes by me in Carrara). Carrara 2 has a terran modeler, but I haven't used it much (yet). Truthfully TrueSpace would be as good. Bryce and Vue are great for terran and low res models but wouldn't be good for Poser clothing and props. Rhino seems to have a LOT of useful functions, but I just can't seem to learn it (at least the demo versions, but I am working without a manual). The same goes for Z Brush. Lightwave, Maya, and 3DS, well you already covered them. mike

Another vote for carrera, though i just got it. I got it from www.macmall.com for $305 (they also have a PCMall.com) maybe that will help, putting it in the lower bracket.

Attached Link: Poser to cinema

Maxons Cinema4DXL is my primary application it has: a powerful fast radiosity render engine particle system Bone/IK/FK rigging a poly reduction filter for creating low poly game models an intergrated 3D paint system for texturing polygon and nurbs modeling a free animated hair generator plugin available a volumetric plugin for realistic smoke and fire called " pyrocluster" is available a powerful dynamics plugin for collision detection is available Scriptable expression programming using C++ A FREE plugin for importing entire scenes with character animation from curious LABS POSER PRO4 is available and very stable import from poser Cinema will open any Lightwave scene file with lights and cameras intact Cinema will open any .3DS file with lightand cameras intact will EXPORT models to all of the major 3D file formats and will import BVH Motion file as animated aligned bone rigs all for $1700 U.S. dollars

1. Vue: cheap, good render, landscaping, can import Poser pz3 files. 2. Cinema 4D 7XL: not cheap but superb render, polygon modelling, lots of cool features, can import Poser pz3 files with the ProPack plugin (later with P5 plugin) 3. Rhino 3D: superb modeller, good features for Poser clothing creation. Test the demo, if you grok it you don't want anything else. 4. Go through your list and get the demos. You are the only person who knows if a 3D application is good for you. ;)

Attached Link: Deepeyes

here is another poser figure in cinema (warning do not attempt with "firefly") **-wolf359 founding member of "the 12 animators"-**

I would recommend bryce, it is fun, great for fantasitic scenes, vue is more for realism and p4 users like it cause you can directly import your pz3 scenes. Also you must have paitients with bryce, it has the slowest(though nice) renderer around. It really boils down to preference, both have demos, you should try it out. I loved maya, but haven't used it since version 2. I'm trying to learn 3ds 3.1 but haven't had much time to.

Use Anim8or.. FREE.. and pay a little for a macro recorder.. practice.. have some imagination.. and create a playmate for Jane..

Blender: Free!

Attached Link: Messiah Studio

Oh wait, you said complement, not replace. My bad. ;]

Attached Link: http://www.journeyed.com

Try all the demos. Remember, if you're a student you can purchase any of these apps for a reasonable price.

Bryce and View are great landscape programs, easy to learn and fairly inexpensive you can get great results in both building exteriors and interiors alike but if you are looking for a modeler you'll have to look elseware. If you can find a back issue of Digit#46 april it comes with Amapi 5.15 free it is strictly a modeler but not too difficult to learn. as was said before blender is also free but frankly I couldn't make heads or tails of it. Anim8or is not difficult but I've never been able to get the results that Geralday does. though i have found it useful for morph modeling. most of the others are well out of my budget. it really comes down to what you want to do with it.

I would have to agree with wolf359 about Cinema 4D. It rivals Maya and Studio MAX and it's not as hard to use. It renderer is superb. I was using Bryce and Vue for a long time, and I think out of those two, Vue is slightly better. These are more amateur programs though compared to Maya, Studio Max, and even Cinema 4D. My vote would be for Cinema 4D with Poser Pro Pack.

I mainly use Bryce for scene creation - its fairly simple and you can get some good results. Rendering is a bit on the slow side though. Its modelling capabilities are quite limited though. Lightwave - I have an old version of this and its got a great modeller. I haven't done much with its renderer, but the latest version of LW looks really good and it renders fast. Also, Newtek are having a sale on lightwave 7.5 at the moment - its about 1000US till the end of september, but by the sounds of it, you may not be buying that soon. Academic pricing if you're eligible is really nice too.

c4d and lightwave look like they have wonderful possibilities. i think we are getting lw at work in the next few months. but, but, but...let's go cheaply, here....Rhino. in my opinion, it is the very best out there, for simply modelling. it is the only one i have tried where you can actually draw what you want your figure to look like....please, those of you who use other apps tell me i am wrong. zbrush....some wonderful texturing build ins. and, easy, easy, easy to create poser morphs with. bryce....even though it is a snail renderer....i have had it since version 2, and, know its effects. it's a good program, many options for the surrounding "picture". there are some free renderers out there....bmrt....i use that with my rhino stuff, but, think the download site is gone. strata 3d has an excellent render engine. there is a free version that is worth d/lding just for the renderer. 3d art is like plug 'n play....you have to figure out what works for you.

Don't forget Animatek World Builder. It imports Poser files. Hard to master but great renders.

I think the best thing to do might be to first decide how much you can spend, then download the demos of the programs in that price range. Try them out and see which one you feel comfortable with and which software lets you actually achieve the results you want. I heard a lot of good things about Lightwave, and like others have pointed it out, it's on sale right now. If you are a student, you can get it (and other programs) for even less. I think Lightwave is about $600 with a student or faculty ID.

I, too, am a hobbyist, but I've been adding to my collection of 3D apps pretty quickly (almost too quickly). I've purchased Poser 4 with PP, Bryce 5, ZBrush, Carrera 2.0 and Vue 4.1 with Mover 4, in that order.

I'd say that Vue 4.1 is a must purchase, but if you really want to do things on a budget and don't mind a steeper learning curve (and more limitations), you can get an OEM copy of Bryce 4 for $80 off the Internet.

Unless you want to model your own 3D objects, everything else is optional. If you want to do modeling, Carrera seems up to the task, plus it provides some tasty renders, but I do see some limitations to the interface.

I absolutely love ZBrush (it is my favorite app of all time), but I don't think you can count it as a true 3D program. It has some great features that allow you to do modeling in a very intuitive way, and to export those models, but it is not a full featured 3D app.

Cinema 4D 7XL rocks!!!! I just got mine this week and OMG! It's awesome!!!

I've had Lightwave 6.0(6.5patched) for two years and still stuck with the defective copy...worst customer service on this planet...

Attached Link: http://www.annsartgallery.com/ei.html

For a modeler, its hard to beat the dvgarage deal. You get Electric Image Universe and Animator version 2.9 and Amorphium Pro 1.2 with about 3 gigs of video training and all the pdf manuals on a 4 disk set for $200. www.universe3d.com (look at the popup box) or www.dvgarage.com Here's a screen shot.

There are soooo many!! 8P~~ If I want to splurge, Lightwave or Cinema4D look like winners. And Rhino 3D has consistent great reviews. markdc: I'm too old to be a student. Dag nab it. :) wolf359: NICE and NICE!!! ;) IronBear: Hmmmm, trying to drag me away from my recently purchased P5 are ya? Still, I saved that link for more indepth scrutinization... ;) Well, I've already downloaded the ZBrush demo, Anim8or, Maya Learning Edition. Might as well gather those of interest and waste time (hehe). Thanks all for your invaluable input here. The juicy bits make the choice all the more difficult. I'll let you know on which I decide. Kuroyume

If you have PhotoShop or Avid, or Premiere-- Lightwave is going for $995 till Sept 30th. There's a couple more sidegrades in there too. I was thinking about it, but I doubt I could hack the learning curve. Emily

shrug Heh heh... not really. But they're worth looking at. It's NOT very often that I'm both impressed with a peice of software and with a companies technical and customer support the way I have been with pmG. I know I'm planning for a purchase from them after XMass is over and I have a few bucks to spare from building workstations. Seriously, on your origional question, I like Rhino as a adjunct program to both Poser, Bryce and Lightscape. Both for modeling the odd thing, and for tweaking morphs on poser figures. And I love Lightscape for the very rare pro images I do for clients.... LS 3.2 upgrade is also on that post-xmass list. A premier renderer if you have a need for one, even if it does require you to shudder deal with Autodesk's tech support on occassion. Never mind... having to ever deal with Autodesk isn't a plus for a prog - forget I mentioned it. ;]

I have vue 4.1 and it is definitely the best if you compare the features/price ratio. Vue is basically not a modeler, so if you want to create clothes, you should look for something else. On the other hand, with a little imagination and time, you can create a ton of props using the basic shapes, boolean ops and material editor of vue 4... (some results found in the vue board of this site are pretty amazing)

Hi,
I am a hobbyist too and I am looking around which 3d program is payable for me. Have a look to http://home.tiscali.be/heyse/help/index.htm. This belgium guy have done a list of free/shareware 3d software.
I'll like to buy Carrara and I purchased at ebay Ray Dream, so I can upgrade. In the States it will cost $149, for me in Germany it's about 230 Euro. In ebay look for old programs, perhaps it won't work on your system. But if you have the serial number, you can upgrade.
By now in german ebay there you will find Ray Dream 4 or 5 for 15-20 Euro. It's equal for an upgrade if you get a MAC or Win version.
Take care

Wolfgang

my two pence :o), a copy of cinema 4d xl v7, poser 4, pro pack and Vue as they all work really well together and are very very stable.. then your good to go with any 3d scenario, Steve

OK, I have seen at the US ebay it will cost $50-99. Have a look to www.ebay.de and search for Ray dream. Normaly they don't ship to the States. But you only need the serial number. So I can purchase for you, it's not much money. Perhaps you can sent me something in equal value, e.g. peanutbutter cookies and it will be good enaugh for me when it reach me by grounded mail. I like it but I can't buy it in Germany/Europe. I am not a seller, I am a clinical pharmacist. I had been in the states 5 times. But now the dollar is to expensive for me, so I have to look another way to get my peanutbutter cookies.-:)) Greetings from Lubeck, northern part of Germany Wolfgang wvahling@addcome.de

Attached Link: http://www.hyper-3d.com/content/departments/reviews/archives/truespace_firstlook/index.aspx

You really can't go wrong with Max and Lightwave, though we have a preference for max here. If you can't afford that then Truespace 6 is an amazing tool... you'll really enjoy it.

Rhino for modelling props. Poser for creating the figures. Bryce for constructing the scene and rendering.

Soulhuntre, Yoohoo! TrueSpace! I am a trueSpace user and I love the program, so I'm glad that you and the reviewer at your link like it, too. :)

Well i'll put in my 2 cents. Maya for sheet power and flexiblity/learnability. I've used the personal learning additon and learned more about modeling than i thought possible. I've been a long time Max user and it's an amazing product as well. But for my money it's Maya all the way, alot of money that is...lol.

My daughter is an artist. I am helping her to create her own 3D figures for Poser. I have LightWave and ZBrush but they are frustrating for her. I'd like to hear comments on the various 3D packages, when using for modifying geometries of Poser figures.