Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=253916&Start=1&Sectionid=1&WhatsNew=Yes

...for views. I don't normally solicit views of my work. In this case, though, I don't care to hide my ego. I have been thinking about this project (well, to ME, it's a project) for a long time...as "someone else" knows. Nothing ever seems to come out the way I want it to. TJ will, hopefully, appreciate my attempt at his specialtiy. If you click...just look. Please don't patronize me with "wonderful" comments just 'cause I am an active menber of this forum. And before I sign off, I apologize for not doing a better job. To me, half woman as I am, it was a worthy task. It just didn't have a worthy author.

I don't know what you're apologizing for. The graphic tells the story. You used your considerable knowledge of lighting and color to create the mood. She's in a sad place, both physically and mentally, making the mistake (or the excuse) that she has no other choices when it is the choices she already made that brought her to this point and she could make others to get out. Here is my recommendation. Don't tag the graphic with words like "unsatisfactory." Let the graphic stand on its own without prejudging it and see what other people make of it. This is a graphic that was carefully thought out and lovingly created. Maybe there are things you want to change, but leave that for another time. The graphic and the poem had the creator they needed to have. They have the creator who cared about the subject and needed to communicate the scene. Anyone else would have been second best and it would have been make a mistake to overlay their vision on yours when yours, for this work, is the important one, and the only one needed. You may not want to hear it but, Chuck, I think the results are impressive, and much more interesting than all those Vickys and Mikes in the temple. At least to me.

Of poser I know little, of art I know less,but in my humble opinion you have captured the words in images,or was that the images in words. Nicely done either way.

I think you've done a good job with an interesting theme (more comments attached to the image).

Thanks for taking the time to view. Darn thing took me about six hours to do. How sad ! As to the comments you left in the gallery...you guys don't take instructions very well, do you?

This is the writers forum after all Chuck! I guess we don't do just looking :-)

I received a message from TJ. He delicately expressed his concern about re-writing other people's work. I appreciate his decision to post to me privately. BUT...I DID post this message in here and it DID have an attempt at poetry in it. So, I should stand up and have it in public just like everyone else does. He suggested: 'Neath the stars that twinkle light; Are those who walk the streets at night. With painted faces to capture stares; But scarcely clad, to show their wares. Wiping off the choads from filthy dicks; They hide in alleys 'tween their tricks. Now, I like this version better than mine. Except for not knowing what "choads" are (nor how to pronounce it) Since I don't want others to have the same problem as I did...can someone offer a better fifth line? I will edit and change the poem. Thanks again, TJ, for helping. It's much better...just that one tweak.

Chuck, I liked both yours and TJ's versions, but still was not completely satisfied with the rhythms...which to me are more important than the rhymes. It's a fascinating subject and the poser illustration you did for it was amazing. Please forgive me for tweaking your poem, but here is my take on it. "Beneath the stars that twinkle bright Prowl those imprisoned in the night. Harlot painting will bring the stares, They're barely clad to flaunt their wares. Clearing remnants of filthy dicks They crouch in alleys 'tween their tricks." ps...i dont know what a choad is either, sounds like a britishicism to me, lol.

choad /chohd/ n. Synonym for penis' used in alt.tasteless and popularized by the denizens thereof. They say: "We think maybe it's from Middle English but we're all too damned lazy to check the OED." [I'm not. It isn't. --ESR] This term is alleged to have been inherited through 1960s underground comics, and to have been recently sighted in the Beavis and Butthead cartoons. Speakers of the Hindi, Bengali and Gujarati languages have confirmed thatchoad' is in fact an Indian vernacular word equivalent to `f*ck'; it is therefore likely to have entered English slang via the British Raj.

Poery is not my thing so I don't think my view is worth much here, but I wondered if you ever considered making the poem about this one sad soul instead of making in general about streetwalkers? To me, the graphic is a picture in time of a single young woman in despair, and the poem might reflecte that moment of her individual desperation instead of trying to generalize about hookers (who are in "the life" for a variety of reasons, and with varying levels of consciousness about their life style choice). It would be then her thoughts about her situation...a young woman who might be young enough to be "trick or treating" is doing that in an awful ironic interpretation of the words. Is the tragedy of one less tragic for being only one? Safely ignore me. I find a lot of poetry generalizes broadly when I prefer reading the very specific, so I'm guessing I'm out of touch with what it's all about.

I realized when I wrote the above that I was really starting to write my own poem instead of trying to help Chuck write his. His graphic has been haunting me so, with apologies to the real poets including Chuck, this is the result: They once called her Baby Ho Those men who took her childhood. They paid her with money, drugs; Proud of buying off her youth, Never mind her eyes grew old; Relishing her sweet, soft heat, Never mind her heart turned stone. "What else is the girl good for?" They could justify themselves. "It's a victimless venture, Just a way for her to make Easy bucks in her spare time. Were as easy as they come. Slamming her against the bricks. Its all she really deserved. They treated her to bruises From her mouth down to her soul. Between tricks, she cleans herself; Weary, sinks into despair. The street lamp glow blocks the stars; Hopes shattered by honking cars. She's ready for the next one No ones baby anymore. I by no means think it is better than Chuck's....it's just my emotional response to the graphic and has, really, nothing to do with anything else and can be safely ignored.

Chuck, as it stands, the image and the poem have an impact, I would recommend against editing either in any way that reduces that impact, it complements both the image and the poem. on a slightly different note. in my past I have been in contact ( outreach work ) with the "working girls " one sticks in my mind because of a huge difference between her and your poem. she knowingly chose to walk the streets, as her second in class engineering degree would not make her as much money as hooking. ( only one person had higher marks in her engineering course ) she bought a brand new pathfinder and had it completely paid off withing two years from what she made hooking. while the majority are forced by other choices into it, there are a few that aren't.

Jaqui...I agree with you. That's the reason I thought the poem might benefit from being more specific. But, on the other hand, I have to admit I think it is sad when money is the only consideration for earning a living. A lot of women make it through college without hooking...Julia Roberts has rather sold the "Pretty Woman" idea that it's a great alternative profession but it is also high risk. And for every woman who thinks it is a marvelous career choice, there are dozens who find themselves disposable in society as a result of that choice.

I agree with Jaqui.. I would not "prettyfy it." I would leave it "diry" grimy, gutter language. It is like the language used on the streets. Plain and simple. No illusions as to what it means. It's straight forward. I like it and while you might change a bit of it.. I wouldn't.

dialyn, I like your poem and would like to see an image too.. Mind if I try?

definately dialyn, the "unsolved murders" here all involve hookers as victims, the missing persons list is mostly missing hookers, the assualt victims list is mostly hookers. it is risky. when I was doing outreach it included giving the girls license plate numbers of known bad dates, guys that seriously hurt the girls. making sure they had condoms for protecting themselves from hiv and hepititis. ( hiv is not aids, hiv is a disease that in time causes and aids like state. aids is a completely natural ailment, that can be caused through severe injury. [ Howard Hughs had aids from when he had severe accident ] ) educating the girls about the risks meant learing about them myself.

Stormrage....be my guest.

Pardon my short reply but I agree with everyone. Gotta run.

Weird. I saw Chuck's posting, posted my own, then flew backward through time and got my posting ahead of his. The Renderosity time machine strikes again.

I like the idea of what dialyn is saying. I realize some girls are in it for the (fast) money and the life (so to speak), etc. Therefore, to try and infer ALL night ladies fall into the category of my poem is wrong. Writing about one nonspecific person seems better in that regard. Then, things get blurred because, this one person could be seen by some as the representative of a group of people. So, conceivably, we are writing about a segment of the hooker population. Never knew it would be so difficultgrin. Also, Im glad Stormrage understood the need to just use a dirty word in the poem. The use of that word, to me, seems to make sure (or TRY to make sure) the reader is yanked into the real world and wipe away memories of what they have seen in Pretty Woman (as dialyn mentioned). Im just glad it didnt get yanked for TOS. Once again, I appreciate all the attention this subject has gotten. And, once again, it shows how many different ways there are to approach a subject AND inspect it.

Dialyn, for not considering yourself a poet, you write a strongly emotional, rhythmic piece. You should give yourself more credit.

I think the image itself needs to be dirtied more, but the words underneath are fine as is. I was shocked by the one line, but that's how it should be, and I'd feel cheated if you pulled punches or made it more poetic. Don't sell the image short - it told a story, and that means a lot more to me than a masterfully done Naked Vicki In A Temple With Sword. OT: Pretty Woman was a horrible story that teaches girls that all they need to do is look pretty and have sex with lots of guys and some rich guy will come along and give them everything they ever wanted. It's a sick version of Cinderella. (I'll end here before I get 6 pages into my rant.)

~l~ Cresent, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with your opinion on that movie. nor does it appear that anyone is advocating the life, other than my comment about one girl I know that is doing well for herself with it. it is not a good profession, it is way to risky. honesty, for me, requires at least an aknowledgment of the quantity of money that it is possible to make. in no way is that advocating the life. huh, you can make just as much or more selling drugs, not a good way to earn a living either.

Great poem Dialyn a little long for the challenge but right on and I'm dating myself on the word choad I'm afraid.

To exchange the girl with a runaway boy prostitute would be even more jolting.

I once worked in a part of the Park where there was a circular driveway around a tree filled center. The boys (always boys) would stand amidst the trees while middle aged and old men (never really young, always men) would drive around around and around. One would see a youngster he liked, pick him up, and then drive to a parking space. It was particularly bad at lunchtime. Some of these guys spent a large part of their day in this activity as if trying to score some kind of record of acquisition. I don't know how they earned their money that they could do this so many hours, but it was a very creepy and sad thing to watch. The police were try to clear out the activity but they only succeeded as long as they were present. I am very glad I don't work there any more. The problem still exists. I don't have to watch it anymore.

I watched a related movie lately. LIE (for Long Island Expressway). Sad movie.

One thing I have to say, I don't think the sex of the prostitute is as jolting as how young some of these kids are...I've seen reports of kids on the street who are only 11 or 12. Kids that age don't make informed choices, and predators who prey on them (both the guys who have sex with them and the pimps who make money from them) are low forms of life. Guess you can tell where I stand on the glorification of prostitution. All the pretty words about it being a "victimless crime" don't hide the truth on my street.

I think you're right about the age factor. I also believe the justice system profits from it various indirect ways. But who am I to talk - I don't think much about it until someone brings it up. Perhaps I allow myself to become too desensitized, it's easier to put the blame on someone else. This is powerful stuff, Chuck.