Bit of a quandary here. There are 6 entries that are bigger in dimensions than they are supposed to be. I made up the 800x600 rule to keep file sizes down. Even at that size .jpg's can have a big kb size. Biggest one this time is 209kb. I could take the 6 entries in question and resize them...I'm very good at .jpg compression and have faith in myself...but...I know if someone messed with MY finished work, I would be a n g r y... So, I'm gonna take the heat for this and allow the bigger one's to stay as they are. Rather do that than change someone's art. The best pic will win for quality not quanity. Let's later discuss if larger render's should be allowed & thanks for understanding. AgentSmith

Could you ask the artist to resize them...?

I could but, ya gotta realize getting a hold of 6 different people here might take a couple days, not everybody here logs on everyday. And, It's already the 2nd.

I would say allow the art for this time. . . maby put a limit on the Size of the file instead of the art. Maby like 150k MAX or something like that. That way if someone for some reason needs more space to get their point across they can, but they would have to use a lower quality setting to stay within file size. . . Just an idea.

The dimension limit was also to solve any problems with members who, did or had to do smaller renders, from wondering if they got less votes because theirs was smaller in dimensions. So, it was decided to go with dimension limtis instead of kb limit.

As long as no one gets in trouble. I don't care if someone else's work is too large in terms of the challenge. If it were mine, I'd say go ahead and resize it. Most of us have seen each others original posts already anyway. - TJ

I'll give it `til tomorrow(sigh). I'm dead tired and have to work tomorrow. After work, (7pm Renderoisty time)i'll look in here again and see whether to put the vote page up. AgentSmith

Very true, but Agent Smith has a point about people feeling slighted because they can't render larger images. I'd say go ahead and resize it if it was mine too, but then again I wouldn't upload an image larger than the stated limit. On my harddrive they're huge, I resize before I upload just as a courtesy...

BTW, what is Renderosity time, EST, CST, MTN, PST?

Zhann, Yes thats only me. I do understand how they might be slighted especially if they were trying to depict something subtile - (like a starfield. LOL.) CST, its always at the right-top of the page. - TJ

would't it be easier for everyone if a gallery page was set up for challenge entries alone then you put it there - finished.If the image is too large it won't upload (as in the conventoinal gallery) and no entries can be missing.Saves Agent Smith a lot of work too.Maybe i'll go for Coffee Anans job now

I'd say the rules are the rules. And these huge images are killing me cause I live in the middle of nowhere and I can only get dial-up. Maybe whenever the Monthly Challenge Rules are posted that info could be included there as well. But one things for sure -Thank you very much agentsmith for all the hard work you do here! Best - Dan

Here's what I'd do were I in your shoes:

Announce that any future submissions that exceed the dimensions and file size will not be disqualified. The Monthly challenge rules are in the forum banner, so they're quite accessible to anyone. If you want to go all out (due to the new popularity of the challenge, you could make a page in the backroom with the rules that's easier to read.)

I'd also just downsample the 6 entires. So, if you have an image that's 1000x600 pixels, I'd make it 800x450 for them. That would put the entry at the maximum resolution for its dimensions, and it would also probably eliminate the file size problem.

If you have a file that's 800x600 and still weighs in at 207kb, It's so close, that I'd let it slide, at least this time. It's not as big an issue anymore because of your snazzy new page format for the Challenge. File size was more important when all the entries were in one thread and load time was sloooow, but now that each entry loads individually and the thumbs are pretty small it doens't matter as much.

As for people who might feel slighted by maximum pixel size, it's unfortunate indeed, but think of it as a challenge! If this were a brick and mortar gallery, I'd get rid of size limits too, but we're online, and over a third of web users only have a screen res of 600x800!

P.S. I'm tinkering with posting in html, so forgive me if this post looks bad!

Oh yeah, there is no mention of filesize limit in the rules. Just pixel dimensions.

html can be fun, and potentially really, really annoying

My current entry was rendered in max quality 800x600 and came to 460 something meg. I found that if I open my entries in Paintshop and resave even without doing anything it cuts the filesize to roughly 1/3rd each time. I can't tell the difference between the original and saved versions. Even though my first file technically qualified The bryce render took up more filesize. If I'm only using 16-bit mats on my surfaces a 32-bit true color render is not going to buy me much. Most human eyes can't differentiate between a few thousand colors let alone several million. I doubt that many people could even tell if their entries were scaled by 10% unless there was some aliasing introduced. I remember being on a netcom dialup line that was only passing 700bytes /min. Thank God I don't have that problem now, but some do. If only the first inch of the image loads after a minute I kill the download and move on to the next. And I won't vote for it based on the thumbnail. Limiting your filesize is in your own interest as well as the servers.

I always render in bryce as a .tif file, and then save as an optimized jpeg in photoshop until it's around 150k I never go above 165k when posting in a public gallery. Often though, I will have renders that when saved as a 100% quality jpeg from a .tif are only 70kb in size!!! For most images the quality is usually around 70-80 for the best balance of file size versus image quality. Even at 60 quality the image loses little quality.

I always render in bryce as a .tif file, and then save as an optimized jpeg in photoshop until it's around 150k I never go above 165k when posting in a public gallery. Often though, I will have renders that when saved as a 100% quality jpeg from a .tif are only 70kb in size!!! For most images the quality is usually around 70-80 for the best balance of file size versus image quality. Even at 60 quality the image loses little quality.

I always render in bryce as a .tif file, and then save as an optimized jpeg in photoshop until it's around 150k I never go above 165k when posting in a public gallery. Often though, I will have renders that when saved as a 100% quality jpeg from a .tif are only 70kb in size!!! For most images the quality is usually around 70-80 for the best balance of file size versus image quality. Even at 60 quality the image loses little quality.

Electroglyph, there is no way in the world that a 800x600 render was 450MB. Are you sure that you didn't render it as 4:1 or something? a 4:1 render is actually 3200x2400 but to hit 450MB would still be freakish. Perhaps you mean KB? There's definitely something awkward about having a render that's 400+MB -- that's almost 1/2 GB! (Yes, you could get that high with Photoshop layers and channels, but not right out of Bryce) There must be something wrong. Anyway, I don't think I've ever used over 70 jpeg from Photoshop. Typically, I go much lower. Also, I think every challenge entry I've submitted has been well under 100kb. Is there quality loss? Usually, there's only a tiny bit of loss and you have to really scrutinize the image to see it. When posting images to the web I always prefer to show a small file than a large one even if the qualtiy is slightly lower. No one has ever said anything about the jpeg artifacts in my pics and frankly, web users expect to see some artifacts, it's the nature of the web. Also, a visitor in my gallery can load 3-4 pics in the same time they load 1 in other galleries. I think that kind of speed is a huge plus to any gallery.

somebody bump max... his needle's skipping. (There I go showing my age again.)

Diamond needles are so problematical.

Uh... oops... sorry about that, must have blanked on the size restrictions. :c/ apa-logies everyone. I did compress it to a 115k progressive .jpg if that's any consolation. Agentsmith, go ahead, resize that puppy, if you haven't already. I am fully aware and accepting of the size constraints and won't make the same mistake again.

Oops! I meant kbytes. Sorry, A million here, a million there, pretty soon we're talking about real money. When I render 800x600 pixels at super or premium settings in Bryce5 it creates a bmp image. My current planet X posting created a 1.37MB bitmap. When I save this as a jpg Max quality I get a 386kbyte image. If I open this in paintshop and save right back as a jpg the file size gets cut to 104kbytes.

Did you also mean 700 bytes / second, rather than minute? ;)

No, I meant 700 bytes per minute. It was when Netcom first installed 56K dialup connections. You could buy their "Premium" service and pay 10 bucks/ month more or stay on the old dialup number. The first dozen or so callers got 28.8. After that, you got bumped down into the 14.4s. Priority to the trunk went to the higher paying 56K members so friday nights you got your packets whenever everyone else left a gap. 700 bytes per minute was the slowest I ever saw without Netcom hanging up on me. They were bought out about a month after by Mindspring and upgraded. There are still a lot of people on local ISPs that service only one area code in the same boat.

Okay, back from work, had to stay late... Renderosity time will appear the same to anyone, no matter where in the world you are. It's loacted at the VERY top right of Renderosity. I believe it runs on Tennesse, USA time. Actaully, with time to think of it, we need to keep the limit at a max of 800x600, whether landscape or portrait, doesn't matter. But the number of entries are at 45 this month, and that's still a lot of page info to have to bring up for anyone with dial-up. I would like to have some automated upload place for you guys and gals, but I have to run the Backroom Archives on my own and am still learning webapge construction. Besides, it takes usernames and passwords to put anything into it, so I couldn't make that work anyway. The biggest pic in kb this month is not the biggest in dimension. That's the weird thing with .jpg's, kb size also depends on how many colors in your pic and I swear the color red doesn't compress well at all. Anyways, so no big deal with the dimensionally oversized ones being too big in Kb. I will have to re-vamp the rules though, no big deal. On with the show.... AgentSmith

We've seen an increase in the challenge entries in the last few months and especially this month. Since CL is sending 'osity advertisement cards out with P5, I suspect we will continue to see an increase. Along with this, you are the best mod so far who has really worked hard at putting together a decent challenge voting web page. I'm concerned that you might be overworked as time goes on. Several posters have apparently been aware of size issues because I've read offers by the posters to resize. If you don't mind allowing it this time, we appreciate it. If there's confusion in the contest rules, that should be addressed. Next challenge, meet the criteria or get bounced. Draw a line in the sand for your own sanity. You will have an increased workload for the expanding user base, but you should also be respected by the artists for your valuable time.

I agree we should respect Agent Smith by following the guidelines for size of entries, etc...Agent Smith if you would like some help, I'd do whatever I could...

Hey, hate to add to AS's woes, 'cos I do agree that he's one of the best moderators around and a definite asset to the Bryce community, but the Bryce challenge is getting too big to be contained within the Bryce Forum. I think hosting it on a separate page (I second Airflame here) dedicated to Bryce Challenges might be a better idea. It can have a forum of its own, dedicated to discussing issues with regards to challenge, section on rules, a submissions gallery as well as past challenge galleries etc. Creating such a page might be tough now, but itll solve a lot of hassles down the line. Not to mention the targeted marketing potential of such a page ;-) ! What say folks?

I agree...good idea

Humorix, I don't agree that its too big for the forum yet. Go look at the poser forum, 50-80 posts a DAY! That's big. But in time, you will be proven right. If the subject has the magic word in it, then a search won't be too hard right now. All cheers to AS.

Aw, thanks guys, appreciate it. No, no confusion in the contest rules about dimensions and it wasn't really that big of a deal. I was actually more concerned with the other members who would see bigger renders during the voting and find it unfair, and see me as a jerk for allowing it. I'll go over it again before this next challenge. Challenge size - bigger the better. Any problems due to the challenge right now are just a result of me figuring out my Frontpage and getting the right formula for the webpage. I'm learning as I'm going, and I've got a much better/faster way of putting it all together now. Plus, collecting entries as they are posted helps, lol. Getting a seperate forum or place for just the Bryce challenge would be hard, since no other forum has it. And, I don't think it's that necessary at this time. Perhaps in the future. But, I would like to get a dedicated upload space here at Renderosity for the Bryce challenge, that would be nice. It would look like the "win bryce 5" kinda contest space, only we would use it for the Challenges. It would be nice to have space for members to put notes on their entries, wip's, etc. Also, Renderosity is very protective. They wouldn't want anything to be hosted offsite that still had to do with this site. And, as far as my contract goes, I don't think I could have anything to help with it, in a real sense, anyway. The Challenge getting bigger couldn't have come at a better time. It will only help in our credit for wanting(and getting) a really big contest (Guru). Big in more ways than just prizes. We want to attract Brycers from absolutely every freaking site that they might be hiding under. I want it far reaching. With the planning and execution of Guru, the size increase of the Challenge, and at some point Bryce Pro being released, this is all so very, very good all around for everyone here at Renderosity. I also have plans to get even more people into the next Challenge, to help it's growth. I'm excited about all of it! AgentSmith

Only problem I see...besides this current file size/pixel issue is I Thought this was supposed to be a "Bryce Challenge" The picture in first place is pretty but dang it's half a digital picture then rinsed thru it looks like 4 other programs. The only one on this months challenge that even looks like it came from all bryce is the pic in last place..and even that I think he says he ran thru some program once to render or something. How about thry something new next month and make it ALL Bryce...or are yall afraid of using just one program....no imported objects nothing but bryce made and rendered...I ask you is any post in this challenge made solely with bryce?Lets get the playing field leveled.

Wow, this is an old thread! Rob, those stipulations (no imports, etc) are set by the winner of the previous challenge. And, several months ago humorix won and made a challenge that disallowed all imports and post work. I believe the concept was "duel." A Bryce only challenge is nothing new, it's just unpopular (judging by the recent winners' topics). If you want a Bryce only challenge, there is only one way to get it: Win the next challenge! It's not easy, I can attest to that. But, I guess that's why it's not called the monthly easy. =) We are Bryce users, but we do not limit ourselves to it. You can use your vote in the challenge to promote Bryce only works if you'd like, I sometimes do that. But, if someone wants to use another app to do their work, that's typically OK with the group. It comes down to what is more important: The finished piece or the process. Most people seem to think it's the piece. We're making digital art first, Bryce art second I guess is a way to put it. I encourage you to enter the challenge! It's ultimately not about who wins, it's about doing it. (take it from someone who has lost a few) Besides, the concept of level playing field gets thrown around a lot and is subjective. We have newbies and veterans both happily competing. There is clearly an advantage on the veteran's side just from sheer experience with the software; but you never know, that newbie might be lucky, a quick study, or really talented! And I've seen newbies win! I say give it a shot! Next month's topic should be revealed next week sometime, and I'm anxious to see your entry. Who knows, maybe there will be a no import or no postwork rule this time!

ya know... I wasn't gonna say anything, but the more I thought about it, the more ticked I got. "The picture in first place is pretty but dang it's half a digital picture then rinsed thru it looks like 4 other programs" If you are referring to my image, which was voted first it the september challenge-which this thread refers to- then look again. That render was pure Bryce, no post other than putting my name on it. The version that I put in the gallery had just a little bit of work done where the cloud plane meets the terrain, thanks to a comment from Rayraz, I believe. No major post-work.. nada... none. The vast majority of entries this month (Oct) are mostly full Bryce renders with very little touch up, as you would know if you followed the forum and kept up as everyone discussed their piece as it was posted. Some are heavy on the post-work, and that's cool because it was stipulated in this month's rules that post-work was allowed. My entry has more post work than last month's, but still certainly not enough to say it was rinsed through 4 other programs. Bryce can do amazing things when used by people who know just a little about the program.