Attached Link: Another resource gone.

One of the very rare rants that I post. I don't tend to do it often. Ko... if you're wondering what sparked the rant here: Take a minute to follow the link, and THEN read through the sample emails in this post. Actual emails sent to various freestuff providers that were sent to me that I've collected... A **small** sampling. I'd really hate to think that this kind of crap is representative of this "Comunity", but unfortunately, the number of mails people get blasting them for taking the time, effort, expense and trouble to give stuff away recieve tends to give that the lie. It makes be ashamed to be a vendor, because it lumps me with people like this by association. Pretty sad... if this is the spirit of community we have, then this "community" probably should die, along with the associated stores that feed it. Qoutes around community intentional. Any scarcasm dripping from the word also intended. ******************************************************************************************************************* Emails in italics, my commentary normal type. *"Hi, just thought I'd write to you about your [free] releases at Daz. I think they're a fucking joke. What the hell do you think you're going to achieve with this sort of bullshit? If you want to drive away vendors and hurt the marketplace then your doing a fucking good job. You might think it's all a joke but some of us have to make a living from selling poser goods, and this bullshit you've pulled with those packs hurts those of who rely on our income from Poser sales. Next time you decide to fuck with people's lives why don't you just buy a real gun and kill someone. It's fucking morons like you that give Poser a bad name. Sent by "anonymous".* If the marketplace is too fragile to survive freestuff, maybe it should get hurt. And if someone's too chickenshit to sign an email, why should anyone take them or their opinions seriously? *"Hello I thought I'd write to you to say thanks for taking the food from the mouths of my children with your selfish attitudes. So you think it's clever to give away stuff free that others have to work for days at just to earn enough to meet bills. Well it's fucking cunts like you that causes poverty and starvation. I hope you're proud of that. I have to beg money from my relatives just to live because I can't make enough sales and all because of bastards like you who think it's fucking funny. I hope you die of cancer or something. People like you should be exterminated for the scum you are. CuntKiller* Oh, now that's an origional nick. Ever think that maybe if you make something worth buying it might get sales? *"Hey ------- . Hows about you fuck right off out of the community. We don't need you or your free shit. The Renderosity store is there to give people the stuff they need for Poser not cunts who try to kill vendors by giving shit away. Anonymous "* Anonymous gets around a lot. The Renderosity store is there to give people the stuff they need for Poser, eh? Gee... color me a cynic - I thought it was there to earn money for Renderosity. Fucking bite me. *"Heya -----, just took a look through your catalogue. Some interesting stuff there. You do realise the damage your doing to vendors in the online stores by offering stuff like this free don't you? No, well maybe you should think about it. Some of us are trying to make a living doing this. We NEED the sales of our goods to pay bills and we work long hours to make things. Not all of us have the skills to churn stuff out like you do. So back off or fuck off and give those of us trying to live a break. Not all of us are rich fucks that we can just give stuff away. SickOfFreeStuff "* And FreeStuff is probably sick of you. If you're not earning a living at it, you might want to consider another line of work, instead of blaming freebie providers. ******************************************************************************************************************* I'll guarantee that if there'd been usernicks or names attached to the mails, instead of a large number of small people hiding behind anonymous and hotmail accounts, there'd be a who's who in this post. Gee, but that'd be embarrassing to the people who sent them? Too fucking bad. If you happen to read in these something you sent, and you're pissed off by that, then that's too fucking bad also. The really sad thing is that the type of chumpchange assholes who'd send mails like this'll probably respond to sending more nastygrams to freestuff providers, rather than having the balls to flame me here in the open using their renderosity nick. Don't blame the freebie providers - you want a target, here I am. Man. Have a nice life people. Anyone who wonders why merchants have a bad association around the community with a lot of people, guess what - you and I are getting splashed and painted with the same brush that's associated with people like this.

WTF! I pretty much agree with your comments Ironbear. Sounds like these folks don't have enough talent to 'compete' with freestuff. More time spent on developing it and less time whining and protesting would perhaps be a better investment for them.

At least one of these mails could get the sender convicted in a court for harassment and/or threat. The fact that the cowards use Hotmail or other "anonymous" means of communication does not mean that they can get away with it. Hotmail communication can be traced to the sender via the ISP. A police report filed will make both Hotmail/MSN and the ISP in question cooperative when it comes to tracing the offender via their log files. There is absolutely no reason for you or this community to accept harassment like this. Sadly enough, people think that the anonymity of the Internet makes it possible to get away with behaviour that they would never conduct in a real life situation. The fact is that the Internet is not anonymous at all. It's actually easier to trace an e-mail than a snail mail letter. Harassment and threat is a serious offense and should be dealt with accordingly.

God damn it these type of emails piss me off as well. Who the hell are these people? What gives them the right to send these emails? More importantly, what gives them the right to represent the community? What this/these moron(s) don't understand is that the freebies don't hurt the Marketplace sales but actually help them. When you first start playing with Poser you download as much free stuff as you can. But as you get better at using the program - you get more and more selective with what you download. From the free stuff you are naturally drawn to the Marketplace where you begin to purchase stuff selectively that you use to help realise your much expanding imagination and skill level. As for earning a living from solely selling Poser items - yeah right. Some of the best creators/vendors that I've spoken to only do this as a hobby to support their hobby. These emails sound like selfish, self important, self deluding bullshit to me. I'm just sorry that there are some really talented people out there coming under attack by what are probably no-talent hacks. People like Questor are paying the price.

:(( Freestuff is an enhancement to retail items, not a detriment. It raises the bar and is a challenge to produce better quality items for sale, which ideally benefits the entire community. I hope these are isolated instances and not the norm. Anyone that thinks that freestuff is given by those with "selfish attitudes" had better do some serious soul searching.

Wow. That is brutal.

Seriously, I can't really understand the logic. Anyone in business has to know that the only way you sell anything is to provide someone with a value for your asking price that makes it attractive. You do that by being better in some way than what is out there including what is cheaper and what is free.

What people do with their time is their own business; that is the essence of a free market and a free economy. If someone wants to spend however many hours they need to to make a high quality product and then give it away fro free then more power to them... that's life.

Why do I tolerate it? Because I hurt other people all the time in business... so I know it will happen to me. I don't do it on purpose, but I do it.

• Every time I underbid someone for a programming job I have "hurt" them.
• Every time I provide free advice on a technical problem I may be hurting some consultant who would charge for the answer.
• Anytime my talent allows me to do something better/faster/cheaper than someone else I am sure they are not happy about it.
• Anytime my resources (software, render farm, inventory of models or products) allows me to win a contract that someone else wanted, I am sure it upsets them.

So it would be pretty damn hypocritical of me to say ":Hey! Don't you dare do something better or cheaper than I can!"

If someone has the taint to do something in an hour that takes me 5 weeks to do - and they decide to give it away.... then I am out of luck. That's the way it goes. If it happens consistently I might want to reconsider whether I really have the skills to actually be successful in this business.

For vendors to whine about it is particularly confusing. Since many of them are in direct competition with each other - I wonder if they send each other nasty notes about "Hey, how dare you bring out a gothic female texture, don;t you knwo I have to eat!".

With the exception of intellectual property theft, it's all fair game. Get over it or stop trying to play with the adults and go back to the kiddie pool.

Gah! This bloody pisses me off...supportive hugs to Ironbear and any other generous soul that has ever recieved an email from an ingrate b!tching about something that was given away in good faith. I recently put up my first modest contribution to the community and have gotten only 1 rude email...guess I should count myself lucky.

I'm sure it drives some vendors crazy that Questors stuff is better then their items for sale. Well, I can tell them something: I don't buy, download or use second rate stuff, so the only thing that would get me interested in your items is a upgrade in quality. For crying out loud, don't rave against freestuff, but really learn your craft and create some quality products.

Well, some people are twits, maybe some vendors with great products write letters like this in their pastime too. Maybe is is some kind of misunderstood competing behaviour. Pray that I or some other forumites don't find you out. You will be a laughing stock until hell freezes over.

Damn, this makes me so mad, maybe I should finish some of my projects and offer them as freestuff. :P

i think it's sad that they gave in to a few mindless chimps. i don't know why they thought that, as soon as their stuff hit the marketplace, they'll be as rich as rockefellers...

Well said soulhuntre...espectially, "Get over it or stop trying to play with the adults and go back to the kiddie pool." :-)

You can see how people can make live the life of luxury selling poser stuff.I mean to say I bought 3dworldz..$8, well you could retire once you sell something so expensive to two or three people. I fail to see what the problem is with Questor's stuff, it's bloody nice work and, like many other gifted people Questor gives stuff away..well lets make an example of Questor, lets string the swine up for being nice. Envy is a terrible thing.
What's up moaners? Couldn't you install Questor's nifty weapons or is the work in them too much for you? To be bitter about somebody having more talent than you is so stupid that it beggars belief. You should be inspired by these people, look at Ironbear he doesn't let his envy of me get him down ;-) Insults from people who won't put their names to them are worthless, nothing more than the whining of cowards.
Guarie, you're absolutely right about the freestuff leading you to the market place. I wish it didn't but it does :)
Mon

gosh, ib, this makes me really, really sad. i knew that some of the vendors could be vicious, but, nothing like this. wow.....so for the sake of their everlovin' big fresh american dollars they would deprive the community of talented people who care enough to give. vendors....a little note to you: if you can't make an honourable living by sitting home and making poserware....GET OFF YOUR ASSES....either go forth and try and peddle your "skills" in the real world, or, better yet....help with the bandwidth issues and GET A DAY JOB....there is always a good turnover in fast food, or, telemarketing. this is just wrong.

Wowza. Makes the nasty e-mails I've recieved seem really tame, and they had me considering pulling my stuff. ^_^;;; Fyre's point 1: These people need to remember that 1) freestuff was here first. The marketplaces came later. 2) There would BE no marketplace without freestuff. Fyre's point 2: If these people are depending on Poser sales as their sole means of support, and they're capable of another line of work, then they're bloody fools. I talked to a couple of merchants when I was considering switching, and the best, top ranked ones were only making a few thousand a year. It's supplimental income at best, something to support your Poser habit, not a livable income. Fyre's point 3: Something they should consider is that I, and I imagine many others, think more highly of a vendor who gives away freestuff. If I'm borderline on a product from a vendor I haven't purchased from before, I'll check for freestuff from them. It gives me a chance to see if I like their work or not, and also a rough measure of if they're in this for love or just money. If there's nothing there, I'm probably not going to buy the product I was looking at, AND I probably won't hit their catalog again. (I also look at the most vocal complainers whenever a freestuff argument comes up. If they don't have freebies posted, then in my book, they don't get a vote.) Fyre's point 4: I, and I'm SURE many others, have a personal "don't buy from" list. People I've witnessed being rude to their customers on the forums (yup, seen it), people who've prowled the galleries and harassed those who posted work using a product under a different SN than they purchased (that is NOT why vendors are given the names of buyers), and people who do stuff like this. This certainly does explain why the general quality level of freestuff has gone down over the past few years. There's still great stuff, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't seem like there's as much of it, and when I go through the marketplace, a lot of the stuff there looks like what I would have found in freebies two or three years ago. To my fellow freestuff providers, success is the best revenge. By pulling down your freebies, you're giving people like this exactly what they want. They don't care about the bad name they get as an anonymous group. From a practical standpoint, in many e-mail programs you can block not only individual addresses, but all e-mails except specific ones from certain domains. So, for instance, you can block all hotmail accounts except a list of people you know. Now, I think I need to go finish up my Martial Artist's Coat and Calico Catgirl texture set and see if I can tork some of these people off myself.

I can't believe there are some people around who are so small minded that they feel they have to drive someone out of the community because they gave something away, I'd understand it if the freebies had included parts of the sold items. Instead of ranting at the creator of the freebies make your products better otherwise just keep quiet, what a shame they didn't give their names or we could have boycotted them, then they could bitch at all of us for "taking the food out of their kids mouths", if you're that worried about money get a job. I'd like to say loads more but I'm so angry I'm lost for words, IB I back you 100% on this, they make me sick. Rob

Thanks des, hugs are always nice... but for some odd reason, I don't tend to get a lot of nastygrams. ;] And sorry you got one also. It's not an isolated enough thing, else I wouldn't have gotten irritated enough to break one of my personal attitudes against starting rants. Well said, soulhuntre, everyone. And sorry about this - had to blow off some steam after I dropped in over there and saw that site announcement.

That's pathetic, I just wish I could find out who they were...I mean one good turn deserves another...don't you think?

heh, i've never seen such vicious attacks on freestuff. why not keep the freestuff up and put out even more ;> don't let them win. and let's get some email headers... amazing what you can find in there. :D

What's even sadder, if the writers of those emails really DO have children, then they are no doubt raising another generation of ignorant, small-minded, crude, warped and belligerent people. :-(

These will be the people trying to sell yet another badly done female character, or a few poses that anybody could do themselves. Hello?! Nobody is buying your stuff because it isn't any good. Try learning the difference between price and value. :P

Ironbear - don't apologise for the rant! Everyone's allowed to blow off steam once in a while and I think this qualifies as one of those times. If you hadn't told us - then most of us would have been still unaware this kind of crap was going on. You did a good thing and I for one am glad you had your rant!

I really must get some of my free stuff more readily available. If only to piss these wasters off some more. :-) Trouble is, getting enough bandwidth without having to remortgage the kids. Talented freestuffers like Questor, SergeMarck, ISO and Kozaburo know all about this already; some of you may know that Serge has just emptied Poser Fashion and started again. PoserWorld and the Props Guild had to go subscription for the same reason.

Yup! lets produce more free stuff. I'm on board. Hummm...wonder what a guy who calls himself "Cuntkiller" could be producing. I'd love to compete with that Nazi. Thanks IB. Q

Where is my old Renserosity ?!! That's the kind of crap I got why running joelegecko.com, but I got far more mails from happy people. 1. I can't believe some people are so demanding on free stuff ! It takes as much time as a sold item. Sometimes, it makes me feel some people shouldn't even be allowed to access those files. 2. FreeStuff - MarketPlace competition ? I remember a time when Renderosity was relying only on freestuff to get visitors... I personnaly think some people shouldn't be allowed to sell what they do. Anyway, they don't sell a lot since their work is not even basic freestuff quality. 3. Some merchants should learn to work without freestuff provider help : I mean, don't steal what they give away for free. And think about you really did when you're elected merchant of the month ! ;) ( sorry personal experience :) Really, really deceiving !

Ironbear our hearts goes out to you, as said previously, our emails were very tame compared to yours. Bitter, jelous people out there, and I am so sorry for your dismay. We all here and elsewhere love your work and we are sure we out number those hateful people. Keep your chin up and be well. Not all vendors are like those who tried to hurt you, true we are competitors, but in the true spirit of creation, we all appreciate good work. Mike and Sharen

I'm woth Poppi on this one, anyone who thinks that poser items will give them a luxury income is a several fries (And a drink) short of a happy meal. I was thrilled recently when my total sales was enough to pay my mortgage - but that was only one month and then it slows - so I know I would never ever depend on poser stuff to do more than buy my software and feed my hobby habits. Free stuff is vitally important in many ways, it gets people "hooked" on poser when they are new and unsure as they don't want to pay extra money out until they are comfortable. It often provides products which don't sell well but are still needed/wanted. Obviuosly those sending the emails also knows they are being stupid and petty - or they would have signed their own names!

IB: the next freestuff contribution should be a posting of the complete emails from "said" vendors ... headers and all. As group project, the more astute users could break them apart and show exactly where they came from lmao Just a learning experience

Just to clear a couple misconceptions. I haven't pulled my freestuff. I am, do and will continue to make things free and as a result of some of the mails I've received I will attempt to make them even better than before. I've previously deliberately avoided competing directly with the stores. My models are static and don't contain morphs like some of the store items do. Also, I'm not great with texturing stuff so kept that to a basic as well - but that will change. What has happened is that over the last two years I've been getting progressively more nasty-grams from some rather pathetic individuals. At first it annoyed me, later I just treated them the same as spam and either deleted or rejected the mails. However, in this instance - as a result of my own site being closed - a close friend offered to host just the catalogue of my models, basically nothing more than a series of images grouped into common areas. She has had some of the most disgusting emails it's been my displeasure to read and quite frankly they're totally unwarranted. She hosted pictures for me. That's pretty much all, just pictures. Seems that even that is an excuse for abuse. So, all my files will be rotated through the freestuff forum at 3D-Arena, occassionaly Silvermage will pick one for hosting by the site itself. I'll find a new site for my catalogue and I'll re-enter negotiations with a provider in the UK regarding hosting. This hasn't driven me from the "community" (whatever the hell that is) but it has made me bloody angry. Not because I was sent hate mail, hell I could give a shit about it. But that a close lady friend was subjected to the same treatment for doing nothing. Trust me, Blaze is not an easy person to upset, she's pretty damned volatile but as with anything you weigh the pro's and cons against themselves and it just wasn't worth the hassle of tracking and retaliating against these people when it's far easier just to remove the target of their hate. I am NOT leaving. I have NO intention of stopping what I do, and every intention of making things better. Certain people don't want competition from freestuff providers, but rather that everyone sells through the stores and joins the "clan" of vendors. Sorry, in my case at least it's not going to happen. I will continue to produce free stuff, even more of it than before with a larger variety of items. The only problem will be hosting and providing people with a way to browse what's available - but I'm working on that and sooner or later I'll get things sorted out. It's unfortunate that I am not alone in this systematic abuse because I know that most vendors could care less what I do. The few I am friendly with and chat with regularly are great people with some great products, and that it is a very few small minded idiots responsible for bullshit emails to freebie providers. Perhaps one thing that annoys them the most is that the majority of my items have no commercial restrictions on them. Or perhaps it's just the fact that they're free. I don't honestly know. Whatever the case may be, their campaign hasn't worked, won't ever work and is doomed to ridicule from the start. This kind of bullshit just encourages me further. Hell, the weapon packs that Daz are kindly hosting were a direct result of some prat telling me to go away in short sharp jerky movements. So, in essence. I don't let this kind of crap get to me. Yes it's annoying sometimes, and as 'bear knows I've erupted once or twice over it. Yes, last year I did very much feel like calling it quits and leaving, but chose not to after talking to a few people. I'm not alone with this problem. Others get the nasty-grams too. Ironbear perhaps gets these things forwarded to him because people know him to be openly spoken and perhaps more approachable than some. Whatever the case, I understand his ire as I've felt the same way when a freestuff provider has pulled their files because of abuse, and if you check the forums you'll find a few who have done that. At this point I want to take a moment to thank the idiots who sent me emails, and for those freestuff providers who have sent me their hate mail in comparison. You might annoy some enough for them to leave but I'm made of different stuff, and all you're doing is pushing me to greater excesses. Check the Poserworld forum for a view of what's soon to be released from me and it'll give you some idea of how this campaign just isn't working. I will fully encourage and actively support any other freestuff providers who suffer from similar emails to those 'bear posted above. Carry on doing what you do, give away what you want and ignore the few fools who don't have the ability or the guts to stand and be counted. Freestuff is the life blood of the forums. Without it there's no real attraction to coming to these places and business will die slowly. Freestuff attracts people to the sites, and eventually they get curious enough to browse deeper and get dragged (kicking and screaming in some cases) to the store where they CAN pick up some fucking excellent products - and some garbage. We all offer a service. Whether it's just chatting, helping, offering tutorials and advice or freely downloadable files of beginner or higher quality, or store items. Wankers like those in Ironbear's post are NOT indicative of the forum mentality - well mostly not, and they are not representative of the "majority" of vendors (at least, I like to think so), just a few sick, sad little fools. Hosting freestuff is hard enough as it is and many like myself, have to pay to host free files - as contradictory as that may sound. Free sites have incredibly restrictive bandwidth allowances and many pay sites also have ludicrously low allowances. But that doesn't mean it's impossible, and the gratitude displayed by a few people makes it all well worth while. But for some people, especially the more sensitive or non-English speakers, this sort of thing is too much and they leave. Hell, why not? If people can be this nasty then why the hell bother? For me, it's the perverse pleasure of annoying people like this even more, and for those great emails I get where someone sends me a link to work they've done with my models - that makes it all worth while. Like most people I don't expect a constant flow of praise, or thanks, or even credit. I only provide a PART of the whole, but it IS nice to see what people do. Personally I get quite a thrill out of seeing something I made in an image, whether I'm credited or not. It doesn't matter, the thing was used and THAT matters. Thanks for the rant Ironbear. I guess it needed to be said.

Ummmm... thanks Sharen, Mike, Movida and others, but please let me clear up something here: Those are copies of samples of emails that various friends of mine have gotten that they forwarded to me, usually with a "I can't BELIEVE someone would actually send something like this! Look at this crap!". NOT mails I've recieved personally. I personally tend to not get flame mails for what ever reason. I can count on one hand the number I've gotten over the years. I'll be real honest - if I'd gotten any of those, I'd probably have shrugged, blocked the sender and deleted. Or dissected the header and emailed them back. Or posted it in the Tavern and made fun of them... I tend to not get to bent about getting flamed. I can figure out ways to make people who flame me real uncomfortable - I've been doing it for awhile now. ;] But for some reason, when my friends get abuse like that, it pisses me off a lot more than when it's directed at me personally. And, in the past year, the amount of abuse I've seen directed against freestuff sites has been increasing... I know a couple of people [names withheld] who've gotten inboxes full to the point where they hate opening their mail progs. That's what prompted this. Watching someone I consider a friend get enough of these that they effectively said "screw it" and pulled the freestuff end of their site because they were tired of the volume of harrassment they were getting ticked me off. Not gettng them myself.

Heh I guess my free stuff isn't any good, as I've only recieved NICE letters/IM's from happy peeps. But then again, most of my free stuff is...trash ;o) ~TrekkieGrrrl Don't let those idjits win.

And pretty good trash it is too ernyoka. I've personally enjoyed playing with a couple of your models. Good work, keep it up. :) It's nice to have your "trash" to make a scene look lived in. Which is a good point, I really must finish my 78lb weakling can crusher image. :)

I'd love to know who is behind these hateful messages. Rest assured, I'd never buy their stuff under any circumstances.

Well it doesn't really matter if you are getting them, as vendors for here and elsewhere we have gotten them, the fact that you make this public is a good thing, it helps just keep us stronger and it notify's others that this happens. Keeping informed is a good thing. We understand your anger for your friend and it is good that you are in my opinion going to your friends side to be there for moral support. At first when I read the letters then when to that site I got a little confused because it wasn't you, but now I do understand. Mike and Sharen

Questor, I like your attitude! So many freestuff providers have succumbed to this kind of harassment but not you. Nooooo! You're going to hit 'em even harder. I wish more freestuff providers would do that. Maybe the lame, no-talent, wishing-they-had-talent, marketplace leeches would get a clue.

Hey guys, from someone who depends on the freestuff, I want to thank you and tell those guys are Nut cases. I have a very very limited income and the only way that I can get the neat stuff that I use is by free stuff. That fact that you guys give this stuff away continues to amaze and cheer me. I download a prop unzipp it and wow, usually it blows me away. When I save enough pennies, I go shopping through the store for something that I can afford and want, I have never been disappointed. Maybe those goons, think everyone who has poser, is super rich and can whip out a credit card or two and buy the whole story. There is something serious wrong with that kind of attitude. I think that most of us, view poser as hobby or maybe as a seconday income at best. Me I know that I am not in the league with most of the artists here but poser scratches that creative itch that I have had for along time. thanks once more to all the creators of the free stuff. Butch butch@rabun.net by the way if those fools refuse to give their names and or their email address then they are worst than cowards....

I would like to point something out. A number of those posting above have said they can't understand the people that sent those emails. Wrong. The person. I'm pretty sure all those emails quoted by Ironbear are from the same person. The style is very consistent. In other words, we are dealing with a solitary nutter here. And the standard practice for dealing with solitary nutters is? Yes, class? Samantha at the back? Yes, "Ignore, ignore". Difficult, sometimes, when they come as distasteful as this one, but nevertheless, necessary.

Maybe these people need to go to work and do the poser stuff in their spare time. I worked 12 hour shifts as a nurse and still had time to do my programming because it was important to me. And yes, I have a family. I know lots of people who do this and you won't hear them slamming someone because he felt he could support the Poser community by giving away quality models. There are a lot of folks who can only use freestuff because they don't have the money to spend on models and textures and such. If I ever find out who it was that said those things I will NEVER buy from them, and I think the rest of this community feels the same. So they are taking food out of their own kid's mouth. Talk about lame. Marque

lol remember when people were mad about the marketplace because they were afraid there would be no more freestuffage? Marque

how about finding out who it is then everyone ignore them totally, avoid their MP stuff, their gallery, any threads they start, treat them as if they don't exist, see how long they can take it.

I never get nastygrams lambasting me for my freestuff! Guess my stuff isn't good enough? Inconceivable! Gah. Talk about putting the cart before the horse! The universe doesn't owe you a living. It'd be so simple if you could just declare that people buy your stuff, wouldn't it? Maybe, just maybe, if you spent less time harassing your free stuff 'competition', stalking the galleries looking for non-customer usage of your stuff, and other unprofessional and unproductive activities, and more time learning your craft, making high quality items and actually supporting your cusomters, you find your sales to be more palatable. Regards- Lemurtek

reads over lemur's post Nahhhh... that almost makes sense, Lemur. Shame on you. snicker

Sorry IB, I've been almost making sense most of my life, hard habit to break! :) Regards- Lemurtek

Well, up until this point, everything I have done has been for personal/commercial use. I'm now going to join the freestuff group and see if I can piss these losers off. Remember, any wanker that has to post anonymously is only tough on the internet. No bite to back up the bark. A nice approach is to go ahead and boycott all vendor purchasing. That way, the "clan" will clean itself up in order to survive.

I would like to add something as someone who has never sold anything or posted anything to freestuff cause I'm not that good and I do this to relax because I work sometimes sixty hours a week. I remember when there was no MarketPlace. When the MarketPlace came along. I thought "Why buy it when you can get it free." BUT then, I started noticing the nice stuff in the MarketPlace. "Okay, I'll buy one thing." Then, I noticed in freestuff a great texture for something sold in the MarketPlace. I got the texture and then bought the item. To make a long story short, I buy more stuff then I get free, BUT it is the freestuff and the forum that brings me here. My biggest fault has been not writing thank you emails to people I have gotten the freestuff from. If it is found out who writes such nasty emails as cited above, should be banned and/or boycotted. Since I now see what emails people who provide free items get, I am going to be sure and send thank you emails when I get a free item. Bill

There are flamers in every group. They send messages more for the response value than to change anything. If someone was serious about this, they'd put a notice with their name here in the forum. Ignore them. That p*sses them off more than anything. I don't believe these people really sell stuff in the marketplace, or if they do, they think their cruddy work is worth more than it is. They don't understand that our community has a great deal of experience in selecting things from the marketplace, and can tell quality from crap. People who sell in the Marketplace don't ever make a lot of money. Usually the best make enough to cover their own purchases there, and thats about it. The worst bemoan the fact that no one wants their stuff, but don't seem to realize that a set of body morphs or a Vicky battle top just aren't worth $20. You really need something with a lot of quality to get people to buy (like Curio or Quim or dozens of others). Freestuff is also used by Marketplace vendors to encourage you to look at their store. TrekkieGirl's freebies convinced me to buy her Trash Street scene (I love it). If I'd just seen the scene in Marketplace, I'd have been slow to buy, but all her freestuff showed me the quality of her work, so the decision to buy was easy. I'm just starting to put things in freestuff. Someday I may make something I think is worth selling (just so I can finally get a few of the things on my wish list). Flamers won't discourage me. For every flame, someone thanks me for something I've done. My Michael body pose set has been downloaded over 400 times from freestuff. Its not worth a dime to sell, just body variations, but some people find it useful, and I'm happy. Sometimes someone gives me credit in a gallery post, or sends me a thank you email. To me that's thrilling. Someone likes something I've done. One thank you email is worth 100 flames.

Attached Link: The Professional Poser Merchant

Is it just me or a trend? The really talented people tend to be mellow. The folks making crap all claim to draw their sole income from Poser. Get real people. **I thought I'd write to you to say thanks for taking the food from the mouths of my children with your selfish attitudes. So you think it's clever to give away stuff free that others have to work for days at just to earn enough to meet bills.** Haaaa!! Get your ass off welfare and get real job you f'n slug! People like this will always hate talented folks whether they provide freebies or not. They're like knats. I could give a crap what anyone says of me or my friends if they don't have the guts to sign the email. This really does piss me off!

shakes his head. I am a merchant. I also have a few items in Freestuff (prolly need to put more there). However, the only time I have ever received any e-mails about my freestuff were either a) Nice letters, or b) People letting me know when the link goes down. This is actually the first I've heard about supposed "members of the community" sending missives as hateful, ignorant, and selfish as this. I am personally shocked, as Questor has some wonderful stuff (I even used his swords recently in a couple pictures for the latest Animotions contest), and deserves far more praise than condemnation. And anyone willing to host anything for a Freestuff provider in this day of crappy free webhosting should be applauded, not lambasted. Whoever you were who sent such letters, be warned. If you send to the wrong person, you may find yourself charged with criminal charges for such things as mentioned above. And if your identity is ever learned, then you will find yourself losing practically ALL of your business as a merchant. Enjoy.

The sad part in all of this is that one person, yes, I'd bet these emails were all written by the same person...the style and language is exactly the same...but the sad part is that you let one or even if it is a few, people run you off.....I suggest you trash the trash, be big enough to let it roll off your back and keep on keeping on!

The funny thing is that not everyone who uses poser is planning to make a ton of money with the program, especially when one is first using poser the thought of investing more money into poser stuff would keep many people from really exploring their creative talents. Poser is fun because of the many helping hands out there who guide the poser user through the stages of poser-addiction....yes at some point the freeby makers graduate to selling their products and many who sell still make free products; but we have so many wonderful items to use because of the way the community operates. Poser user decides they want to make their own stuff finds another program to buid stuff, then looks to those who have mastered the stuff making for help. Free stuff often is for noncommercial use; when you make something worth selling with the stuff you have to share the wealth, purchase the license or get permission; The immature person armed with a keyboard and an anonymous "name" will always be out there, they are the bane of just about anything good....rather think of them as shriveled up little imps busy putting other people down for their kindness.... I say thank you for the freestuff and thank everyone who has helped another learn to reach that next level...purchasing the goods from the vendors is another way to thank the community as well as promoting the program that makes us able to create things....

Dizzie, I have to agree that it does appear to one bitter individual - or probably from a few people that they managed to rile up with their self-important ranting. As for taking food from the mouths of children - bullshit. If money is that tight - and I have heard these types of comments until I'm sick to death of them. "I can't pay my web hosting" "I can't buy the poser things I want" "whaa whaaa whaaaa" well get a job or do something else - don't expect Poser to change that for you. There have been times in my life when money was tight enought that getting by day to day was truly scarey - but I never once thought that my selling Poser items was going to solve that problem for me. At the most it may garner one a few free props, clothing items by trading or working in conjunction with another merchant or even using their store credits. At the most maybe even free software if they play their cards right (or kiss enough booty lol). But buy groceries for kids, pay mortgage or rent - not on a regular basis. People have got to quit whining like this - if you aren't making any sales look at what you are producing - not at free stuff items. Hell create some free items of your own and release them as advertising. I don't release much here, but I have items on my site that are free and now due to this I think I will be releasing a few items free from my packages for limited times. To whomever hounded Questor and Blaze - thanks for reminding me to put out more and more free items.

It's not easy to say something to such words ... but I will try to give this and that thought. Let me start by saying I understand both sides. As usual I can only think about this situation from my point of view. Of course it IS easy for myself giving away freestuff - because I earn my money in another (well - I would say more or less) normal job. So I don't have to worry about people giving away something for free for what I've maybe worked t long time to sell it for more or less money. I recently tried to sell something of my poses (well, that's what I'm known for) - but by doing that I tried to give away something special to make this stuff worth buying. Let me say that I'm a little bit proud of the stuff I'm selling but I'm not so mad to think I could do a living out of this. You should consider very well to depend on something. And I think Poser - and the stuff around Poser is not something you can build a living on - you can earn extra money with it - but ... getting your food and your money for the landlord from it is a calculation that is very vague (from my point of view - to say it again). To much risk anotherone is more talented or a technique could erase your work by just a piece of code. Do I blame the people by giving away freestuff ?? No - I don't. Because if I would do so - I have to point at my face in the mirror because I think I can say that I'm the one who destroyed the market for poses by giving away so much poses for free (well - you might agree to that or not - but I think I'm telling a little bit the truth). Once (oh - it's only a few years back) we're all shared our work and there was only Zygote (later on DAZ) who was selling stuff and we all thought - oh, well - do they really think they could make money with that ?? Now, we know it is possible and I would say they're selling good products. The same happened to Poserworld and I would say Rena and Steve are also selling good products. The borderline between freestuff and selling stuff is a very thin line and a fluid one also. The market is still very small and you have to be really good if you want to make money from what you're doing. And - well - if you're to good you have to face another problem - the file-sharing problem. These are all not very good points to decide depending on selling stuff for Poser. To blame other people for not selling your stuff is naturally another thing. For myself this is just a sign of bad style. You want people buying your stuff ?? OK - then make stuff that is worth buying !! You want satisfied customers ?? OK - then do something for your customers in helping and asking them what they want !! You want to be accepted as serious artist ?? Then accept the good work of other artists !! You found out that you don't have the talent but you want to live from selling things in 3D ?? Uh-oh - you should consider learning or doing something else or you might end under a bridge (oh - don't take this as a joke - I know such things can happen to everyone and without their own fault) Poser is changing more and more to a pure business - I really regret this - but I (and noone) can stop it. I only know one thing - I don't want to see the day it is only business - before this happened I will have left long ago ... Happy posing Schlabber

Firmly supporting you Ironbear, I think the "community" spirit is still strong, It may only be one man sending those mails. As some people said above your job is damn good to get such harassment. ...mmh... and one of my fellow workers told me you could eventually get the e-mail address from those "anonymous" mails, he he he ;)) Yarp