I need to find out 3 things if I can.First,will either of these "Patches" make the Walk Designer actually work?When I try it the watch symbol comes up and it literally freezes my PC.I have to re boot.Second,I SINCERELY hope that Curious Labs makes good on having the Face Room work as advertised on the box and on the CL websight.It should allow me to fairly easily map a picture of a face then add the face to ANY of my Poser Characters(Mike2,support),I already spent MONTHS in Poser4 making a character from Mike2 and now want to add my own head to be made in this "Magic" face room,like it says on the box, "Import Facial Photos to create NEW actors that look like you or anyone else.Generate new faces with a button click(yea right),or create caricatures for wild characters!".PLEASE fix that resolution issue,AND the compatability problems with Mike2 and Vicky2,(totally inexcusable.)It also speaks of the "Incredible"Firefly renderer,that puts "YOU" in the directors chair.Ah huh.And the SetUp Room says "Create new,fully-bendable Poser figures from ANY 3D object in a few easy steps".Listen,I have been VERY understanding and always said in like 90% of my posts to give CL a chance and that I have FAITH in them,but I would REALLY like to FINALLY start having what was advertised and promised to actually WORK.Again,I am bitching to hopefully get things DONE,and I still believe in Curious Labs,Steve,Anthony,et.all.I do think they CARE and WILL make things right.I really do.I just am so frustrated.Thank You.

I can understand your frustration, but unfortunately you won't see the Face room supporting the Millennium figures. That was announced already before P5 started shipping. I don't know about the other issues because I don't even have the program yet.

I hope they get the other things working, but Mike2 and Vicky2 compatibility in the Face Room is not going to happen. CL and DAZ aren't playing nice together right now. DAZ isn't going to put up the 60K for it (can't blame them, myself. Owie), and CL isn't going to do it otherwise.

I'd like to see higher res in the face room at least. I've been requesting this for a while now but still no word as to whether this will be done. Many people have requested this feature. The low res that it currently produces comes across like a play toy. Correct me if I'm wrong but closeups/portraits demand much higher res than what P5 currently supports. I'd like to have some acknowledgement that this and many other concerns that have been previously posted are in fact being adressed. Just a few words would be nice. I do agree with Artist 3D in that we should be able to have flexibility in the face room when it comes to mapping for "all Characters". I think it is a big mistake on CL's part to not support Daz's characters over a power play like mentioned above. It is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. 60 grand would be more than made up from drawing in more customers with strong universal compatibility. I don't see any strong models from CL so it really doesn't make any sense to me to do this. That said, please guys at CL, just a word now and then echoing and acknowledging our concerns would be nice. The bugs will hopefully get sorted out soon for those of us that still have many lock ups, etc. CL seems to be working on this now. It'll be nice to wear the artist hat again instead of that of bug exterminator.

Artist3D, I've installed the 2 patches & walk designer works fine now...I never had any major issues from day one but each patch still made improvements in stability...I had the same problem with walk designer straight from the box though.

I don't have P5 so what do i know... But the face room should have an import feature that lets you import textures of any size, the face room should then use the rez of the imported texture.

Staale, it should but it doesn't. artist, I believe the readme for sr2 states the walk designer problems have been addressed. Haven't tried it, tho. Lapis and others, about the Mil figure use in the face room, CL has stated the $30,000 per-figure price was negotiable from the beginning. DAZ responded they didn't know that; they thought it was not negotiable. It's moot now though; with DAZ developing their own program, it's doubtful they'd bother with shelling out any heavy cash for P5 compatibility. But I could be wrong.

Attached Link: SI: Custom Mesh Services

In another forum, there was a thread, or portion thereof, that stated the quoted price from the makers of the Face Room was substantially lower, in fact about 5% ($1,450) of the figure quoted by CL to DAZ ($30,000). So, it would seem that someone decided a markup of almost 21 times the Singular Inversions' price was acceptable. No wonder why it was "negotiable". As verification, please refer to the link.

eek! I missed that earlier thread. That is some markup!

The walk designer does not work for me with SR-2...gives an exception error every time....but some thread has a fix/work around for it...deleting some file...but it has to be done each time you use P5...hopefully someone can post that again....

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=914441

Dave-So, here's the link to this thread =======================quote================ 8. Re: access_violation trapped at 1b:a5ba28 by nerd on 10/17/02 01:17 Open the Poser Runtime folder and browse to... ...RuntimelibrariesPoseWalkDesigner Locate the file named Don for Walk Designer.PWD and delete it. Poser will recreate the file the next time walk designer is loaded. 9. Re: access_violation trapped at 1b:a5ba28 by nerd on 10/17/02 01:21 P.S. You will need to delete the file before using walk designer each time. Like they said, it's a Beta. ===================end quote=============== Hope it helps

If that part about CL wanting 30 grand EACH to make 2 POSER FIGURES compatable with Poser5 then they can go to hell and rot.All this time I ALWAYS said I had FAITH in them,and though I was/am fristrated in all the BUGS in Poser5,I STILL BELIEVED they will make things right.Now I hear THIS!If this is NOT true then,I still stand behind their product,if it IS true,then Screw them and their GREEDY,SELFISH company.

I for one would sure like to know the "official" stance on this one. I CL patrols these threads regularly, so I hope they come across this one and put forth a statement. THIS IS TO IMPORTANT AN ALLOGATION TO REMAIN SILENT

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?Form.ShowMessage=852117

It's true, both DAZ and CL has made statements on this. Here's a link to the message where the price tag was first released. It starts at msg# 26 and goes from there. Even if the price was negotiable, you'd have to do a heck of a lot of negotiating to get it down close to $1500.

Wow Jackson, I missed this when it was first posted so I'm assuming aothers have missed it as well. Here it is: "First of all, I want to thank publicly everyone who has sent us feedback. We read every last email and appreciate all criticism, thank-yous, and suggestions that we receive. Please, please, please, never stop telling us what you want, because thats what we want to give you. We always look through your ideas, in fact we are already getting things ready to produce some amazing items using the Mimic code that will be tailored to the Millennium Figures (jjsemp: Im talking to you ;). We also already have inhalation on our list. Many new head/facial morphs, improved eyes, ears, UV mapping, and more. We are always trying to do what we can to help foster the community where-ever possible, and while the idea of incorporating Victoria 3 into the Poser 5 Face Room was very much in tune with our line of thinking, the $30k price tag (per figure) that Curious Labs asked to charge us unfortunately was more than we could afford. But if you thought the special on Mimic was good- and even if you think the offering of the Millennium Dragon is good- just wait, oh just wait, until you see what ELSE is coming from Daz in 2002! (You will be utterly dumbfounded, I promise you!). Thats all I can say for now, but just you wait, because Im not even talking about Victoria 3..... Thanks again, Steve Kondris DAZ Productions, Inc. "

Lapis, Sorry, by bringing up the subject and attaching my name to it, CL probably will not respond. It seems like I am on their "ignore list" because I ask too many questions. :0) Besides, I highly doubt that CL would come clean and discuss in an open forum regarding such a dubious business practice. In either the thread here or on PoserPros, kupa was amazed that DAZ would release that info to the public, seeing as how it was supposed to be private. (I wonder why?) But, the community was clamoring for DAZ's Mil Figures to be compatible with the Face Room, DAZ had to do something to show it was not entirely their call. Now, the $1450 only includes a custom face mesh and distribution rights, and I am not sure what Value Added Services CL could have tacked on that would have made the price jump by $28,550; so there may be more to the story. However, there is such a glaring discrepancy that one would question the motivations behind the proposal. If we presume that what Singular Inversions offers is the same as what DAZ would have received from CL, then I could only fathom a two reasons for it: 1. Stiffle Competition: CL knows that DAZ has pretty much cornered the market on figures. Since the P5 models are not DAZ models, from what I recall, having the P5 models Face Room compatible and not DAZ's would mean that only the P5 models could be used. 2. Increase Income: CL obviously noted the excitement for the Face Room and the potential to model real people in a virtual environment. CL has already claimed that they have been in financial havoc, and I understand this has been the case for quite some time. So, if CL could get modellers to pay an additional $28,550/model, that would provide a substantial boost to CL's income. On the surface, this does throw CLs' dedication and commitment to the community in question. Since so many users have purchased Mil Figures and use them almost exclusively, one would presume that CL would have made a reasonable attempt at allowing the Mil Figures to be Face Room compatible; not jacking up the compatibility price nearly 2100% for what appears to be soley ominous competitive and/or financial reasons.

BTW, I do not represent CL, DAZ, Singular Inversions, or any other company. I am merely a Poser user who has been following and commenting on the P5 "fiasco" and related events.

Sometimes silence is golden but in this case it becomes very tarnished!

You are right. We don't know for sure what it would take to get Vicky/Mike compatible with the face room. It was mentioned that some of the steps required by CL would be to hire some people to do the conversion. Apparently there is more to the conversion for Poser 5 than what we know. CL licensed the technology from Singular Inversions. There is obviously going to be some time and effort required by CL to make any figure compatible. They didn't just slap the program from Singular on, they had to integrate it themselves and write the code to do that. We do not know how the technology is implemented. Also, people keep quoting the 30,000 per figure price thing. Kupa has stated that that was negotiable. Maybe DAZ didn't know that at the time. In a lot of ways, there was a miscommunication between DAZ and CL. We also don't know what is transpiring between the two parties at the present. They could be negotiating, or maybe they aren't. I don't believe we will ever really know unless BOTH parties want to share. I do not believe that CL is any more greedy than DAZ. CL is a business. DAZ is a business.

Here then is a big chance to set the record straight which would go along way to pacify buyer confidence. Silence only hurts them further.

"Also, people keep quoting the 30,000 per figure price thing. Kupa has stated that that was negotiable." If it was negotiable, and say, hypothetically, the price from Singular Inversions reflects the true cost, then why not throw out maybe $5000.00/model as a starting point? If SI can make a custom face mesh in 48 hours (ref the link to SI's site: "Two days later, we send you back data files that plug into Modeller."), how much programming could be involved? It just seems, from the available information, that CL was scalping the costs to eliminate competition and/or for some extra cash. As Lapis stated, this would be the perfect time to set the record straight. CL has already shown a predisposition not to engage in these types of discussions, so I highly doubt that the true motivations would be revealed. Therefore, it is up to the community to make up their minds unless clarified.

There are honest business people and there are dishonest business people.

Cyberstretch, probably because SI already has the people in place that can do this. Also, it is a matter of scale. CL would have to hire people to do it, and if they do, how are they going to recoup the expense of the hiring for only a few figures? They could possibly contract the work out, but even that would be expensive unless they get people who are already familiar with the process which I would venture to guess there aren't many in the market. Jackson, yes there are. So far neither DAZ nor CL has lied to me. Both appear to be honest to me. The Enron exec however......

Something fishy is occuring though that raises suspicions. A thread that was started yesterday has been made to disappear. Some questions directed at CL basically asking them to set the record straight by letting the community know what happened in the negotiations. I thought this would go along way to help renew buyer confidence. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. Then magically "poof", the string was banished from sight . Draw your own conclusions. I've drawn mine. Unbelievable! How can this be explained away?

Last I knew, CL didn't own this site. The mods may have taken it on themselves to either move it, or delete it. I would hope you are talking about the thread that got moved to the OT forum and not one that was deleted. Technically, the thread about DAZ's new program isn't about Poser. And yet it is. As far as CL revealing the negotiations, I would hope that they (CL and DAZ) wouldn't reveal it. To me then, I would feel like I couldn't trust them. If a company reveals private negotiations, what else are they willing to reveal? Your address and phone number? Your credit card number? It's a matter of privacy. In some ways, CL and DAZ have already revealed too much. Hopefully both will learn from this. For myself, I am on the fence with both of them as to trust.

It's on the Off-Topic forum Lapis. I'll let you and others speculate on WHY it's in there. :)

Smells like a skunk chances are...

I think this whole deal between CL and DAZ is a bit hard to figure out. We don't know all the particulars...You would think, however, that CL would welcome DAZ with open arms to provide content for Poser 5...if it wasn't for DAZ, IMO, Poser would probably be history. The DAZ products expanded Poser way beyond the original default figures...created a tremendous 3rd party business. Yes, the dork and dorkette had quite a few adds as well, but the DAZ models put Poser at a much higher level. Money talks, I guess, but it would seem to me CL should convert the DAZ figures for free...just creates a much higher demand for Poser 5...

On the conversion issue: If you read through the entire SI site, I think it is fair to conclude that the conversion is not all that simple. The SI method is based on having taken scans of a number of real world heads and averaged them to create a base head, and the morphs applied to it are quite different from what Poser users would be used to (based on the facegen demo, anyway). The problems P5 users initially had (and complainst some still have) with the operation of the Face Room demonstrate the difficulty of interfacing the 2 technologies. Moreover, the $1450 quoted by SI is the cost of taking a mesh (for evample Vicky) and making it compatible so that SI's proprietary .fg files can be applied to create new faces and exported as part of a commercial product like a videogame. It is not a quote for taking a mesh and mapping it so that you can empower a potentially limitless number of people to do the same, and have direct access to that mesh, and potentially create third-party products based on it, which is what you would be doing with P5. Finally, I too wish that CL and DAZ would play nicer. However, since DAZ is apparently developing a competing app to Poser, I suspect the prospects on that front are not good.