Saw this on the Daz websight.What does everyone think?I for one can't wait......Question;Is DAZ creating a 3D character animation and rendering tool? In January DAZ started developing it's own 3D character animation and rendering tool. We basically have taken our wish list of things we would like to have had implemented into Poser, and put them into our own application. We expect it to be an amazing application. The early work is great. Our goal is to push our new application into new markets and to grow this community well beyond its current size. Brokered Artists and content creators will benefit from this growth by having more customers to sell to as a result of the additional market that will be created....From Daz3Ds sight.I CAN'T WAIT.Maybe I can use my Poser5 CD as a coaster.

Didn't this same post, albeit less lengthy, correctly end up in OT the last time you posted it? Why post it again?

hey Artist3d! read my post right above yours (this one). LOL

"Didn't this same post, albeit less lengthy, correctly end up in OT the last time you posted it? Why post it again?" Many would disagree with your judgement. I think its okay to offer an opinion, especially one cautioning potential buyers who, with this knowledge, can consider holding off on there purchase of Poser 5 until another contender shows their stuff.

That may be, but it's highly OT for the Poser forum when no one knows if a) it will be a competitor to Poser and b) what exactly it even does, beyond being a "3d character animation and rendering" program. I think the reason given for moving the last thread he started with this post was that the program is not Poser, hence it's OT for the Poser forum (and extending that logically out, we don't know if it will read Poser-formatted content, etc. - it may be a competitor to Poser but that may be its' only relation to it). Makes perfect sense to me.

Then again I just realized that's all missing the point - why post it again? He just added one or two lines and reposted the same message that started this thread.

He's venting....like you just did...and I think we should't close our collectiveeye or are mind to people's opinions no matter what they are.(Or in this case have our colective eye and mind closed for us) This site is much more than a brand name site. It has, in my opinion, become the main haunt for the general populice of this community and as such, always tolerates side issues. One only has to look through the library of posts to see this is consistent. That is just the way it has become. Where do you draw the line on your presumption? Does content need its own forum. Hardly any of it was created by CL yet it fills the forum. I also see people popping in and inviting us to other sites, topics, etc. There are many other so called "off topic stings" that are allowed to flourish. Its interesting that they haven't come under the same scrutiny as this thread has. When this kind of measure is taken ( pulling a string inconsistently like this), it just serves to raise suspicions about other possible motives and thus fuels more discontent. I would suggest that if you don't agree with something then either ignore it or respond to it, but removing it is rather petty in my opinion and based on my other observations, just plain wrong.

I wasn't venting and neither was he from the tone of his message. I also don't really care what his opinion on the subject is and I'm not advocating censorship - I was just asking why it needed to be reposted when the thread he already started with the same message is still going and still open. If he has something to add, add it to the other thread. Why clutter the forum with duplicate posts? I run several message boards and these threads just get dumped cause there's no point in having two of the same thing. It's really that simple. No big brother overtones.

Actually one or two threads of this nature in the past 48 hours have magically disappepeared which brings out a very concerned tone from me. I despise censorship, no matter what the opinion that is aired(whether I agree with it or not). So on that much we agree.

It DOES belong here because IT DOES concern Poser users. I for one would like to know what it is and when it comes out. If it doesn't belong here then neither does ANY other thread about ANY other program that is not Poser. And if threads are starting to disappear because they are not CL friendly then I and my wallet need to go elsewhere. Marque

Thanks Marque for bringing some logic back into this thread.

I think the reason given for moving the last thread he started with this post was that the program is not Poser,...<<< Interesting. I did not read that justification, BS as it is. Where did the PTB post that reason? Take care and be well. casamerica

It DOES belong here because IT DOES concern Poser users.<<< Bingo! Thanks, Marque. Go through the last 100 or so threads and look at the number of threads on topics far, far more off-topic than the one that was moved. We are dealing with an announced future program that MAY be Poser-compatible or, dare I say it, a Poser replacement allowing us to use what, in many cases, is a significant investment in Poser related meshes, textures, etc. It damn well IS related to Poser. If people would get the knots out of their shorts they'd see that. Other than that, how's the weather? Take care and be well. casamerica

I was begining to think that I was the only one that sees the logic in this. Guess I'm not alone afterall!

Thanks everyone.I was beginning to think I was the only one with a set of cajones!or for you ladies,a pair of,er,um,well,a pair of keen eyes. :o)Thanks.

I for will buy what ever it is Daz will be selling if it renders better than Poser 4. I have Poser 5 but I refuse to put it back on my new computer untill all the error throwing-blue death screen's are gone. ***** One important point. Daz will return your money if your not happy with their products. You can't say that about any other Poser by products and you sure and Hell can't say it about Poser5! My 2 cents. Sticking with Poser 4 for now.

um, Daz owns the copyright on their product, you can bet that they will have all current products work with their app. turtle, when daz releases the app, watch cl sit up and notice. ~g~ after all they won't be the "only kid on the block" anymore. the uproar surrounding poser 5 will never happen again, because the customers will have the option of using someone else's product. cl will not want to risk alienating people if they can go with a different companies product.

"um, Daz owns the copyright on their product, you can bet that they will have all current products work with their app." I wouldn't bet the house on it-- maybe pocket money. There's some problems about the form-- I think and hope if this ever comes about there will be a work around. If this is off-topic, then discussions about Mike and Vicki are off-topic. I'm getting tired of going to the OT forum for crucial Poser-related information. And that's what this is. We could, of course just fill up the time with more P5 bashing, if that's more helpful. Emily

I agree with Emily and Jaqui, This is the place for anything we can use in Poser. And Having something as helpful as a new Render program in one heck of an important issue to Poser users. Lets not play favorites with softwear. People do mention in here that Vue4 can import pz3 files. Yes Emily, I'm sick of talking about poser5, It's here and thats a fact. Daz is important to all of us, thats a fACT. Leah

hmmm can already see what's coming... Everything made prior to Daz's new render tools release will work on Poser, but not Daz's new tool (CL owns the rights to cr2, pp2 etc...) and everything made after the Daz render tool is released won't work on Poser. Fun wow, the community will split in two. Pick your poison.

CL may own the cr2 idea but they don't own the meshes that Daz has created so I don't see a problem, as Daz has probably already thought of that. I for one will dump CL in a heartbeat if Daz comes up with anything comparable, and it's their own fault for treating us the way they do. Nothing ticks me off more than a company with a smug attitude because they think you have no other options. That attitude may be what kills that company. Marque

The one thing that is sure for me is: We know that DAZ is preparing an ANIMATION and RENDERING software. One would say "it's not the whole Poser". But think again... Rendering is rendering... so far, so good. But ANIMATION... what is animation, if not a series of poses? Wouldnt ANY animation require at least a starting pose, and and end pose? And how are we supposed to animate something like a human figure (the most likely subject of an animation doftware by DAZ), if we can't pose it first? There just HAS to be a posing section. And if there's a posing section... basically, there's a Poser substitute. So... it is obvious that the new DAZ application WILL be a substitute for Poser. It simply CAN NOT not to be.

(CL owns the rights to cr2, pp2 etc...)<<< No, they don't. A file format or structure cannot be copyrighted. See the previous thread on this subject now banished into the OT forum. Court precedence is very much against CL on this and I am very, very surprised someone has not called them on it yet. The bottom line is that the courts have made it clear that copyright law cannot be used as a license to monopolize or stifle competition. That is not what copyright law was meant to do. Take care and be well. casamerica

Oh, wait. I see that THIS thread has now been banished into the OT Forum. Surprise, surprise, surprise! I guess after you've pissed all over your customers and users once it gets easier the next time. Take care and be well. casamerica

Fortunately, or not depending upon your POV, I frequently copy my post to the clipboard before posting due to R'osity sometimes regurgitating on posting. So, I apologize for the cross-post, but this seems to fit the discussion: Actually, I see a few ways around the file format issue, if it even is one: 1. Competitors could use existing file conversion utilities, leaving the legalities with the utility creator. 2. License with another company that Poser content can currently be converted into (ie, .obj and .3ds). If CL ever supports exporters for these other file formats, then using these file formats would make sense. 3. I am not sure that CL can even claim copyright on a plain text file. I offer the restrictions on copyrightable material direct from the Copyright site: "102(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work." I believe that all of the coordinate information, etc, contained within the CL file formats could possibly be considered any one of the following: "procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept". Since CL's files are no more than a "recipe" for creating the characters, I highly suspect that CLs' copyright protection claim on those files would be invalidated by the restrictions set upon copyright material. 3D space, IMHO, is non-copyrightable, as people could, by pure happenstance, arrive at the same XYZ coordinates, etc. I believe that it was stated in another thread(s) that file format protection has been successfully challenged in a court of law on many occasions. With CLs' diminished financial stability, current development, and other issues with P5, I highly doubt they would have the resources to put up an adequate fight. All a competitor would have to do is "outlast" CLs' resources (much like a hostile takeover in business) to win that battle, if there are even grounds for a confrontation.

The nice thing about the OT Forum is that threads last a lot longer before they are buried ;-) I said this before in another thread, IMO the intended purpose (as opposed to how it turned out) behind CL's attempt to copyright the 'format' was to prevent any competitors from extending it in a Microsoft/Java type way. This would be especially pertinent in the case of the DAZ application, as its main purpose would be to preserve the company's existing and future content market. Hence it would necessarily be able to input (at least) DAZ's Poser format content files. Bill

"Hence it would necessarily be able to input (at least) DAZ's Poser format content files." "it", I presume, is supposed to be either P5 or DAZ's app? Either way, as long as file conversion, importing, and/or exporting are supported, there is always a way to get something from one application into another; many without involving the recipient application from legal issues.

bookmark

CyberStretch Yes I was actually referring to DAZ's application, but I can only restress that as soon as DAZ have their own program on the market, as well as a strong position in the content market, the temptation would be almost irresistable to begin creating 'DAZ-entended' format products that would work in their own app (with additional functionality), but not CL Poser, while at the same time keeping backward compatibility with their own, and others', 'Poser 4 format' products. Again with the Microsoft/Java analogy. Bill

Just a bookmark, apple orgies. Jack