Lon Chaney, Master of the Pratronizing Wise Crack: >Here I'll help you. go to google.com. then click on groups. >type in alt.slack. then search for legume. if you look >you'll find it. Read >all that then come back and try to convince me what legume >did is right. What Legume did is right. What others may have done is wrong. Is that simple enough for you, or should I post a Poser scene depicting what I've said?

Lon Chaney said in #111:

This wasn't a political race. It was an art contest for
this site.

I beg to differ. Art is an expression of opinion. The
more well expressed that opinion is, the better the art
is judged to be. Politicians are elected based on how
well they can communicate their opinions (mud-slinging
tactics aside, and note that Legume never slung
mud against those with whom he competed).

The only real difference between an art contest and
a politcal race is the medium in which the opinions
are conveyed and the "prize" which is awarded to the
winners.

Bringing in people that have nothing to do with this site,
and their multitude of clones just to vote for you is
cheating,low down,and just plain wrong.

So how many "clone" votes did you count, Lon?

That's right; you have no way of knowing how many votes
were by clones, or if any were by clones. Therefor
your accusations are based entirely on speculation.

I've read through most of the threads you mention and
did not see Legume suggest that people create "clone"
accounts. I certainly never created a clone account.

Legume simply solicited votes in a forum other than here
on Renderosity.

P.S. I resent your slanderous "sub-moron" comment. It
was suggested that I have you banned for it. I'm not going
to though, as I believe that you (as everyone) have a
right to express your opinion freely. You do feel
the same way, don't you?

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12357&Form.ShowMessage=1017828&Reply=1022253#191

_Peter suggests in #193:

Why don'r we all get together and sing Christmas Carols?

I just got done watching Full Metal Jacket. So
with that in mind:

Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday, dear Jesus!
Happy birthday to you!

hawkfyr sez in #28:

Plus it helps prevent folks from harvesting votes from newsgroups or other communities they frequent.

Folks would come her,create an account just to vote,never to return.

Would they never return? Renderosity's frequent use of
"mail this to a friend" links seem to indicate that they
promote the idea of current users drawing new users in from
other venues. From what other pool would they get new users
if they didn't?

I myself was initially introduced to Renderosity via a
usenet posting soliciting votes (and yes, I did vote right
after joining). Since then I have established a gallery,
participated in and learned from discussions, helped others
when able, and even became a runner-up in the Renderosity
Photography Forum Calendar contest. My interest in
photography has since wained for other interests, but for
that time, I was an active member who tried to add value
to the place. My gallery is still in place because I know
that my interests run in cycles and eventually I'll regain
interest in photography.

So I don't agree that new users from other venues will
necessarily never return if they join in order to vote
for one whose work they are already familiar. I think
it's more realistic that the ratio of those who stay
after voting is the same as that of those who come here
for any other reason.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "harvesting votes".
"Harvesting" as applied to the net implies something
non-conscentual, as in "The spammer harvested my email
address from the mailing-list I was on." There is
nothing non-conscentual about soliciting votes, no
matter where the solicitation takes place. People from
other venues are just being made aware of the contest
and their ability to vote in it.

How is that any different (aside from the venue) from
being made aware of the contest here within Renderosity?
Is it somehow not possible for one to solicit votes in
the forums?

I can understand and agree with the need to prevent people
from creating clone accounts in order to eliminate ballot
stuffing (the true definition of the term), which is
obviously unfair, but I can't see a reason to prevent
people from other venues from coming here to vote in a
contest.

It would seem that what's needed is a more sure-fire
way of validating the identity of a given person, rather
than restricting the votes to old-timers.

Kendra sez in #172:

It's cowardice to not stand by your opinions with your one and only screen name.

Oh, the irony of this is just so delicious that it's going
into my usenet .signature file right now!

PC sez in #35:

Thanks Asalina, you did get me thinking about what I said
and I as much as admitted I was incorrect in the comment
about removing Legume's image.

Yes you did, and I appreciate that.

I know you're a good moderator, PC. After all, how can
one be censorious and be a Frank Zappa fan at
the same time? The two just don't mix! :-)

Happy New Year

A little background: I've known PunkClown since I started hanging out in the Photography forum sometime last year. From that experience I can tell you that he is not only a good photographer, but is generally a jovial and good natured person with a sense of humor. I was actually quite surprized to discover, recently, that he was a moderator. I was even more surprized when I saw his comment in Legume's gallery, because it seemed to run against my perception of his character. We all get angry sometimes and lose our sense of humor, and that I reasoned, seemed to be what was happening with PunkClown. It would be one thing to quietly and dispassionately remove a TOSable gallery comment, but to also post a comment stating that you had done so, and were debating taking the image down as well sounded very much like a threat; the kind of threat that has a "chilling effect" on speech/art. I mean, if you're debating whether to pull an image or not, fine, but what's the point in telling everyone before you've made a decision? I got the impression from PunkClown's comment that he was getting a bit too personally involved. I started this thread for two equally weighted reasons. One was that I really would like a clarification on what's concidered appropriate behavior here. I come from a part of the net where people are much more "harsh" with each other, and am used to taking some lumps (maybe I should become a mod :-), but I also believe that when in Rome one should do as the Romans do; I just needed a clarification on what, exactly, the Romans do. My other reason for starting this thread was indeed to "tweek" PunkClown; to be just a bit sarcastic in order to get PunkClown to consider/debate his actions in an actual forum rather than in a gallery where one is only allowed a single comment. Perhaps that was imprudent of me. So for myself in the future, perhaps I should IM a mod with complaints and questions privately, and as well, mods would be wiser to IM offenders privately with their intent and reasons. Perhaps in this specific case it would've been wiser to give Mosca a chance to remove and re-write his own comment using tamer language. Ah well, I guess you can't be human without occasionally being imprudent. And that goes for both PunkClown and I. And P.S. I still think PunkClown is a good guy.

Addendum to my last post:

BillyJ also writes in #31:

Your kind of "vote" scopes the vastness of the internet and
beyond, my opinion is one kept to a mainframe of only a
very few "members and staff" actually deliberating between
themselves and then approaching the people in charge who
would ultimately still have the final word, hopefully based
on the decision among the team depending on argument and
circumstance.

If those in charge would still have the final word, then
what would the point of a jury be? As it stands we have
a jury system like what you describe; we're all jurors
right now, deliberating until we're blue in the face, and
as can be seen it's effecting absolutely nothing.

BillyJ wrote in #31:

Let it be known that I do understand the sarcasm of your
post though, comparing it to what happened with this
contest is commendable although it is nothing even near
the same.

No, Billy, I don't think you quite understand my sarcasm.
Given rosity's apparent track record w/r/t letting members
make decisions (as manifested in various votes and polls),
the idea of a jury system - where a set of members make
decisions that the admins must abide by - will never work.
From what I've read here, it would seem that rosity has a
tendancy to over-ride the decisions of it's members at it's
whim. That would render any member-based jury system
toothless.

BillyJ wrote somewhere deep in #26:

I do wonder though, if a place such as this, that has
needed to "enforce" policing of sorts to keep the place
from in fact falling apart from so many mindsets and
diversities, whether they shouldn't really consider having
some kind of jury system??

A jury system? You mean like, a vote? They tried that and
it didn't work. :-)

PC sez: > Are you accusing me of inconsistency or > just wrong thinking or none of the above? Well ya know, Legume has a way of pissing people off (bless his squishy mud-filled little heart), and it seemed like he might have gotten to you too. When one adds in the fact that Mosca has been very vocal in criticizing Rosity's policies of late, it didn't look very good at all. So I guess you gave me the impression of being inconsistant. Maybe if I had seen what Mosca had written I might have felt differently. With respect to using the F-word in the Photography forum, one only has to do a search on "fuck" there. You're right though, it wasn't used by "a number of posters", as I had misremembered. I and another regular poster there have used it though. Happy Festivus

This is a valiant idea Jeff, but the lack of anonimity
causes several problems.

First of all, some may not wish to hurt the feelings of
contestants. And second, the fact that the vote is exposed
to view in progress may cause a tug-of-war effect where
voters are influenced by the votes of others.

I guess I don't understand the motivation to limit
voting to long-time members. What would be the point
of that? You already need to become a member to vote,
and some care has been taken to prevent people from
creating sock puppet accounts in order to stuff ballot
boxes. Why not let newcomers vote?

Spiritbro77 in #7: >Now I know that this is a Marketplace that happens to >have a gallery. You're surprized by that? You're here to showcase the vendor's software. You are an advertizement. The message is "look through the gallerys and see what amazing things XYZ software can do! See how much fun these people are having, and how popular they are! Look at all the supportive and helpful comments they receive! You could be just like them!" That's why the Pink Pony is such a fart in the christening basin. IYAM.