bagginsbill,

Thanks, I played around with it some more and I think what you said in your last post may just do the trick for what I was going for.

Also, I still would like to know more about the Star Wars type of effect in your image above. Later, I am needing to do a sort of invisible figure and like the way the Star Wars effect looks and also the image of the invisible girl in the thread link above. I just need a little more full body outlines to the figure and such for the invisible character to be more detailed. What I was thinking is maybe somehow combine some of the techniques in that thread that shows the invisible girl figure with your Star Wars effect above which would give me a variety of tweaking depending upon use and need for the scene. That way I could vary the degree of color, detail, see-through, etc. What do you think?

That will help me out a lot, I am still playing around with this and hope to learn how to do those sort of effects better.

Forgot one thing, it doesn't really matter to me how many ray trace bounces we use or the detail here as long as it gets us where we need to be. I have done 15 ray trace bounces before. It helps in Vue 7 especially with hair to increase the depth of detail on some and you can get really great looks that Poser just can't handle.

**Sorry about the BOLD text, for some reason there is a strange issue with posting right now, at least for me. I can't turn it off and bold is random.

bagginsbill,

Thanks so much for the help and others too.

Yes, that is getting close to effect I am looking for, but lacking in terms of color depth. It may just be the cloths you have selected for this figure, but I would like to apply this same sort of effect to clothing such as:****

**Evenesk's Elite, Lena cloths, etc.

I would like to get it with as much color as possible, just hollow sort of like in your image above. **The effect you have there works great for a ghost type of figure or washed out sort of look though like in a dream, mist, dark, etc. We are getting close though to my desired look.

I tried some Photoshop with my CS4 and I admit I am by no way an expert like some of the masters with that program. So I may be overlooking or not know how to get that look. However, maybe some sort of combination may be needed of a Poser render and post work in Photoshop to achieve this detail and hollow combination. I will that up to others to discuss.

Like I said though, we are close with that image, just need more color detail for the skin and cloths while looking hollow.

Thanks for the help.

Jeff

**

Quote - Post 32 in this thread may help.

I took a look at the tutorial and while it is good and I appreciate the time it took to do and skill, it really doesn't get the same effect I don't think if you going for a realistic looking holographic image. The materials specifically are hard to get right so they can be seen yet still seen through if that makes sense.

I keep going back to the Star Wars movie analogy for how I want it to look. The details are all there, but the image is hollow and seen through. This effect I have seen on simple figures like in the tutorial link there, but not on a realistic render that with a figure like V4/M4 and clothing or objects on the figure.

Thanks for the replies, I hope others can give some more hints and help as I have yet to find a tutorial or post that has done this. I'm sure someone has out there.

Quote - This is a known bug that e-on are aware of but I'm sure it was fixed in SR1!
Your problem I have had, it doesn't seem to be a Poser issue though and I have been unable to replicate it after the first service release, I take it you have tried that!!

Sometimes, before SR1 this could be "fixed" by exiting Vue, restarting it and importing again, but not every time!
Vue imports Poser materials just fine, I never have to alter my Poser imports, it does however have serious issues with poser shaders at the moment, again this is something e-on and Smith micro are working on and this is a Poser problem rather than a Vue one!

Found out some more details on this. Yes, you are correct on this being a known bug. However, I have been in talks with e-on about this.

First, everyone should know that if you try out the software to learn on it before you buy with the Vue 7 "PLE", it does NOT have the software updates or patches applied. This came straight from e-on. So, what you may run into is some of the issues not been patched.

Also, they do advise looking at the materials using the material editor. There is a known issue that Poser imports have their highlights set to dark (black) on most items and also the highlight may be too bright depending upon type of material which needs adjusting. This is more of a Poser problem as mentioned than Vue 7 and the only way to fix it is by hand.

Hopefully both Smith Micro and e-on will work closely on resolving these lighting issues soon. I expect it would be Poser to update their "Poser Pro" and "Poser 7" with a service patch update, but maybe e-on has some things they can do too. Bottom line is this needs to get worked out, so hopefully it won't be a whole year. However, there are some workarounds as mentioned for now, that is provided it is NOT "Vue 7 PLE" in which case there are bugs there with no patches as mentioned above.

Quote - ArtPearl

OS 10.5.6 - Vue Complete - Ver 7.20-04 build 38774
Mouse - Logitech laser mouse, also tried microsoft and kensington mice

My results were the same as Gini's

Drop test
Left Click = reg drop (remains tilted)
Right Click = smart drop (cylinder rotated to land flat)

Load Test
with the already in the scene cylinder selected: Left =load obj , right =save obj.
with absolutely nothing already selected  left=load obj, right = no choice offered

All worked fine.

I am using a 2008 Mac Pro with Leopard 10.5.6 and have not seen the bug the original poster is stating. My mouse is also a Logitech cordless MX Revolution and I have no problems with it left or right click in Vue 7.

I also recommend "SteerMouse" for Mac if you don't or can't find good drivers for your mouse.

Quote - If I remember correctly, part of the problem with Poser Pro and Vue7 was that Poser Pro saved the paths to textures etc in a different format as earlier versions, and this problem was being  adressed by e-on. I don't know if it has been fixed yet, as I don't use Poser Pro.

<<I have been using Poser for some time now and last year upgraded to the most recent version of "Poser Pro". >>
I take it that this means that you have a previous version of Poser? If so, what version? 5, 6 and 7 can use Poser shaders, and work with Vue7.
The major problem is the green tint that appears when using Poser shaders that have a non-white diffuse colour. Some shaders use white, others tend to use a very pale blue.
For the ones that use a pale blue (Poser) diffuse colour you can get relatively good results by changing this to white (as a workaround until the problem is solved), but so much depends on your lighting and atmosphere anyway. The shaders that already have white as diffuse colour seem to work ok.

2 - I seem to remember that Dave Burdick had a fix to use his SkinVue6 in Vue7. Sorry, don't know where, and haven't tried it out. Similarly, I still haven't tried SkinVue7 so can't comment on it, but I can't find the threads that you were referring to at e-on.  ???

1. figure renders in PoserPro and background in Vue??????   - don't do it. Your lighting and shadows won't match without a LOT of postwork. 

Rob

Hi,

I just spoke with a tech at e-on and he said the Vue 7 Poser Pro issues have not been fixed or addressed yet, even with the most current service patches for Vue 7. He also said he did not know when they would or could be fixed in Vue. :(

There seems to be a difference of opinion out there, even from experienced users of Vue and Poser about the best method for doing this. Some say that it takes a LOT of work getting things looking right in Vue when importing Poser figures as they can be too dark, bad lighting, etc. and not easy to fix.

See - www.cornucopia3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php

As to solving the shadow issue there are two choices:

1. Since it's more of a graphic novel and less perfection to detail, simply ignore shadows for the most part on detail. You could cast shadows for figures inside Poser for a GENERAL direction/intensity going with the mood/setting in the background render made with Vue.

2. Do like the someone said and import the rendered Vue background inside poser and set the figures and lights there as needed.

I don't know how well those options would work as I don't own Vue 7 yet, only played with it for awhile. This is certainly an interesting and somewhat of a very complex situation given what I have read with all the known bugs and the issues of importing Poser figures in general inside Vue 7. Right now, I am even more confused as to how to get the best look for working with these two 3D programs. There seems to be no easy solution until Vue 7 gets fixed and even then they seem to need to fix some lighting and other importing issues for Poser figures.

Thanks for the replies and input on solving and working on this issue.

Quote - Neo, you are talking about the problem with the weird polygons her leg/crotch area right?  Can you try a quick render of it just to see if that problem persists?
Or are you talking about the bump on her butt?

I am referring to both actually. Yes, I tried a quick render and the problems appear in it too. You can see the bump deform near the butt as shown in the picture as well. If you rotate the camera, it does show a better view of the weird polygons around her leg/crotch areas with this pose.

For those wondering, yes, I have initialized the V4 figure but will try it again just to be sure. I still am not totally clear on when you need to do this for the new V4 and M4 figures. Even after reading the Daz site and readme files it really did not say a lot about this so any help appreciated. I did do it though just about a week ago.

This is something that has to be duplicated and it can't just be me. Like I said in the first post, other poses that are NOT so extreme like kneeling, bent over, etc. don't show it. Like someone said, it may just be the limitation of the V4 figure itself. However, another poster said they had the exact same pose (it is by "DM" called "Feeling Sexy") with no issues. So, this has to be something that can be duplicated on another machine, it's just a question as to what is going on that may be causing it.

With some more help, I think we can pin it down or at least determine the final outcome of rather it is a limitation of the V4 model itself. If it was every pose then obviously it would point to something wrong with my V4 files but it's not.

Thanks again for everyones help and input on this.

Thanks for all the GREAT and detailed replies to me for help in getting this lined out. You guys are very kind and I just wanted to say so because there is a LOT of useful information here. In fact, I am saving them for my notes to refer to.**

jfbeute, GaryMiller**, silverblade33 and others, THANK YOU!

Yes, it will be a fairly BIG task, but one I think I will truly enjoy when all is said and done. I don't plan to create my own models from the ground up if I can help it, only do some custom characters using Poser Pro with the built-in morphs for figures like V4, M4, etc. As most know, you simply don't have time to do it all and everything takes time. My main concern is focusing on the story and bringing it to life. I don't want the main reason for doing this to suffer and spending too much time trying to make models, textures, etc. will mean I compromise myself somewhere and I don't want it to be my story. Therefore, I am planning to get by with Poser Pro, Vue, Photoshop CS4 and perhaps Z Brush to do the main work load.

I do have an intermediate knowledge of Poser Pro and have used Z Brush to fine tune some figures like the DAZ V4 head to get a look not possible in Poser alone. I first get the basic look in Poser Pro using the morphs, then export the V4 head as an ".obj" and import into ZBrush for the work. I know ZBrush does allow you to do a LOT more work and make your own models and textures too, but like I said, you can only do do much due to time and some sacrafices have to be made somewhere. Besides, doeing a model like M4, V4 would take years alone to figure out and make otherwise wie would se MUCH more variety in the market than just the main DAZ figures (which are VERY good).

I have also done editing of texture maps in Photoshop before and used it to paint on body hair for color matching with the hair color of the figure and also some other skin texture edits. As someone pointed out above, I do plan to use Photoshop to sort of merge the layers together and polish it up. Use Poser Pro rendered to a .PNG file or export into Vue depending upon the scene.

I have just started learning Vue and found some GREAT tutorials as well over at the Lynda.com learning site. They have CS4 help as well for both Phostoshop CS4 and Dreamweaver CS4 now up.

The story -

Right now, I have about 80+ pages done for the first part of my story which takes place over the course of 3 seperate arcs. As it stands now, there is simply no way to translate it all, nor do I feel it would truly work best from either a writer's stand point or artist's view trying to do so. That is why I have made the final decision to publish the completed work as novel only and do the hgihlights as mentioned for the main parts in the art.

I have been a free-lance writer in the past and hate to admit it, but rarely do I make a truly structured outline. That's why I mainly put my basic ideas down on paper then I simply sit at my computer and let the words appear as I go. That way when I get inspired and am on a roll I don't box myself in and can freely explore what it is I am dreaming up.

**silverblade33-

**Just wanted to say I checked out your work and I know how long and hard it is to do that sort of thing. Thanks also for the reply and posting links to what you do. Very nice to see what other are doing and to share in all the creative talent out there.

Quote - From what I am reading here, sounds like you are doing either stills or a movie.

I can make some simple recommendations - Vue is okay for outdoor scenery (been using vue since Vue 3). If you are looking at creating indoor scenes I recommend going with a program like Sketchup or Work Design Lite.

As for 3d painting I am not the person to ask.

In regards to my final work, I should explain a little better. At this time, I am not disclosing full details as I will be doing something either few or no one else has yet done. I will be starting a full web site dedicated to my work and giving away the first one so people can see what I am doing and the sheer detail of the stories. Like I said, I want to captivate with my writing and bring it to life with the art.

I have gotten feedback from Vue users saying it is perfect for indoor scenes as well, if you get the right tools. But that's the problem, I don't have enough feedback yet to get an accurate answer as to rather or not Vue can let my imagination run wild and be able to create both indoor and outdoor renders.

Also, I realize there are some .obj items for Poser use that can be integrated into Vue as well. However, most of those Poser items are either old or not made for realistic renders. I want to do everything from an interior room detail to an outside pathway leading up. So I am still left wondering what I need for the variety of renders of a scene.

Basically, what I need are simple tools like tiles, roofs, furnature parts, etc. that let me construct the item however I see it. In other words, think of it as a much more polished program like the Sims comuter game uses for doing a house ranging from old to modern both outside and in.

I am NOT aiming for film realism, but as good as you can get from current Poser, Vue, etc. So I still need to iron out if I can get aftermarket packages with Vue or something else to let me do inside work with a fair amout of ease spending most of the time making it look the way I want sort of like playing with Legos. You get your basic "wood" tiles, build the floor. Get some that look like stone and build the walls, etc.

I know Adobe CS4 is needed but I still haven't figured out if I really need "Extended" version if most of my work will be done in Poser Pro and Vue. Also, no one has mentioned or recommened a program similar to Vue that has a lot of downloadable aftermarket packages for making interior scenes as realistic as Vue can.

Those are still some questions I have and thanks for the replies and interest in helping. I just need to get the right tools that will ease my construction so I can bring to life what I imagine.

Thanks.

Quote -

After messing around for a few hours I figured out how to take a brush, apply it as a tattoo, and export it to poser and render.

V4's back, which has an obnoxiously large seam running straight down, yet you can't see it here.

well spent money imo.

Was this done with the STANDARD version of Photoshop CS4 or the EXTENDED version? I still have not ordered yet and was hoping for some reviews on sites about the details on the two versions before i bought. Still not sure which to get because on one hand I don't want to spend the extra for EXTENDED unless I really could use it in my Poser work but on the other know if standard would be all I would use for my Poser use.

Hopefully soon others can give some more feedback on the two and the use with Poser post work and other 3D use between the two versions.

Quote - Unless you're outputting to 3DS , OBJ and the like, you won't be able to paint directly onto a Poser figure.

The ONLY reason I can see you wanting to get Extended is because on top of the 3D texturing capabilities, it have an official video timeline - basically another version of After Effects (if you don't own AE, and aren't planning on it). What this means is that you can introduce motion objects into your images, with all the fine tuning and Tools capabilities of Photoshop per frame.

Example - let's say you have someone firing some form of, say, plasma rifle at another character. You can load the image onto a timeline that is only for a few seconds long duration - put the plasma discharge at the base of the rifle and set a keyframe, then go forward maybe 3 frames and keyframe the discharge to be have whizzed way past the other character. Scroll back to the in-between frames, and render out the frame where it whizzes right past the other character's head, and you will now be able to have realistic motion blur for an action shot.

Youo can make camera motion blur, stuff like that - which would make it look out of a movie, and not just a 3D render.

Get the idea?

But you can also do something like this with some motion blur in regular PS - doesn't quite look the same but most people won't care.

Did that make sense?

Hope this helps-
-Lew ;-)

Thanks, that does help explain things. I am an intermediate Poser/3D artist and have gotten into doing texture mods for things like body hair, wounds on characters during battle, etc. Also I am delving into Vue for my world renders where the scenes take place. I don't plan to animate at this time due to mainly being just 1 guy and the time it requires for a decent animation of even simple things. However, I do alter my characters some now and export them in OBJ format. But I mainly use ZBrush for my advanced editing of the V4/M3 and other figures for Poser use.

I guess the bottom line is I mainly want CS4 for post work on my renders and altering some textures that are already made. So, I think I will lean to the standard CS4 version because I really don't have the time it will take to learn how to use the extended features to their best advantage and it would be a waste of money for most of the things I want to do. Unless someone sees something I'm missing with my work I'm doing, I think the standard CS4 will be just fine.

Quote - You really dont need Extended gadgets for Poser and Vue renders corrections :)

Tihomir

That's what I was thinking too, but if you look at the CS4 Extended specs, it says it has some great tools for 3D work like painting directly on 3D objects and other such things. So, I really am not sure how much of a benefit this would be and the other 3D editing it brings to the table compared to the standard CS4 version.

Quote - > Quote -  

All I am saying is that while I understand the CURRENT trend of Sub D and it's uses I still say for true HUMAN realism you need more until I see some figure come out that is way better than anything now that blows V4 out of the water. How to do this 5 years from now may be a simple matter of preference and what the user has for their computer they design on rather than one method being better than the other.

 
Here's a female model that can bend like vicky wishes she could and she uses absolutely NO magnets or fixit morphs to do it, just better rigging. And she already has quite a number of merchants who have asked to support her with products.

Is that the figure you are working on now or another artist? I would like to know more about her and what the details are on her design. One key thing is to get Wardrobe Wizard support for the new figure then all the V4 or other cloths you spent a ton on already will fit her. I do a lot of fantasy renders and would love to use all the cloths I have or converted on a new figure. Once the new figure comes out, I'm sure PhilC would be happy to support it as he has been great at adding support for just about every figure out there now I know of. This would help kick-start any new figure too.

 For those working on new figures, please be sure and keep everyone updated on them here and please don't let them die. I have heard of a LOT of figures in years past that were "just around the corner" and "coming soon" but never are released becoming a dead project. That is why I truly wish everyone the best and I will certainly support fellow artists in their ventures, especially if you show me a figure that will blow anything out there totally away. A good female figure that can bend, form, etc. with more realism than V4 is what I have waited for a long time now. I would love to see what you guys come up with because one person simply can't do it all. Can't wait to see them make it to the market here.

Phantom3D -

That is indeed some GREAT rigging for Daz V4 and I have never seen her bending so well. Nice work and please PM me or let us know how we can get that rig for her if you can and do release it. I would love to modify my V4 like this as this is how it should've looked and been to begin with. Best of luck with your designs too, I look forward to seeing them. As I said above, just please don't let them fade into nothing like others have. Hope to see them soon and start having fun.