Quote - > Quote - Thought I'd chime in before the discussion DOES get locked. I've fiddled with Genesis and Dawn. They both have their positives and negatives. My only interest is whether they will help me make better art more efficiently. Right now the answer is no because none of them will increase my results regarding concept, color, lighting, or composition. These are the improvements I'm currently seeking in my artwork. Nor will they help me with my postworking (though they might cut down the need in some instances). The time and cost to rebuy, relearn, translate, transfer and emulate is not equal to the potential benefit to my finished product.

For those that wonder how people can use old technology it's because the tech is just a means to an end not the end itself. I'll upgrade my OS, computer, software and other tools when it provides a clear benefit, not when a tech company decides to release a new product.

 

I think your right although I personally feel many see it in far more black and white terms and feel that anyone not for Genesis is therefore against.  I am not against new tech but it has to give me benefit in either what I can do or make it easier to do what I do already.  Like you I do not feel the proven cost:benefits are there at the moment.  Others have different aims and different goals and the benefit may be there for them. 

Which is another reason why I do read Genesis threads and do not like to see them locked for, not only do others use Genesis in Poser, there may come and time when the benefits do outway the costs.

You and I both. ;)  I bought out Genesis less then a year ago because I believed in the greatness of the product, but even that figure is being pushed aside.  Luckily for me the vendors I cared about who made stuff for that figure are still going strong. ;)

It's just the handling of the subject has been lacking at best. 

I don't know but I thought that Genesis 2 was going to be better, they had a chance to work on the compatibility issue but instead just gave us all another $30 dollar expense in Genx 2.  Is that not the same as buying the morph packs for the older figures?

Until you realize that sales usually do not apply to that program.  At least when Daz made their own morph packs you could usually see them discounted in the annual sales if you could not afford to buy them full price because they were Daz originals. They made the PC worth getting, but not anymore.  

Geesh I still have to upgrade my version of Poser to use it without Studio, and those problems are scaring me even more.  I buy the newish upgrade and then have the issues that others seem to have just to make the figures work.  But my Gen 4 clan will still do just fine.  See yet another issue.

I mean we all could care less and move on, but it seems some of us actually care about the companies still, and maybe we care to move forward but there are many things giving us cause not to.  For me it's the cost of upgrading.

Either I spend money on this scattered figure and programs to use it, or I spend my money on breaking my M4/V4 wishlists down.  So I support my fav M4/V4 vendors and that is my choice.  If posting my complaints in a hope for some support makes me a villain in the 3d world then so be it.

I can deal with that.

Malem3dia, you aren't going to bait me like you have done with others.  Sorry ;)

Quote - > Quote - I had been commenting on a thread such as this on the "other" site and like all of the others they locked it even if the thread itself was not negative in any way.  

So I have my doubts about Genesis 2?  Those of us who are not Studio cheerleaders are speaking our minds and we are hoping that something better might come out of it all.  I thought they would have made a difference with Genesis 2, guess not.

I am concerned about the skin stretching that has happened when converting from M4/V4 to Genesis, and if that still happens with the newer figures.  

See; I am asking these questions to see if I want to push forward, and I want to see what others have gone through.  If I post the question in a thread praising the figures I will not get an answer that does not include a gushy response about how the figure is wonderful.  Therefore I post in a thread where commenters are both pro Gen2 and against it.  

You see, I am not endowed with hundreds to spend on these toys, as that is all they are to me.  These programs are not money makers for me, I sell art that I create with my own two hands. So maybe my heart is not into it as much as the companies think it should be.  

I have to ask these questions. I've no other choice.

Sorry to sound so negative but to see my questions and concerns be so easy to toss aside by companies that I once respected and honestly helped fund to get to this point, kind of brings me down.

Unfortunately these weren't the things you were asking in the other thread before it was locked. It was the same type of things that were said back in november when the thread was created and necro'd back to life; thus the mods locked it because nothing new was added to the conversation. Now if you had actually asked if there were issues with UVs, that would have brought something different and a topic someone could answer for you. However you merely stated that you didn't want to lose your investment and that you'd be afraid you'd invest in genesis and then genesis 3 would come along and you thought tech was moving too fast and alienating customers... that was covered multiple times by multiple people in the thread so the mods locked it.

The thing to take from it is this:

A figure should stand on its own. Not everything not made for it is not going to look good on a different figure; things may be compatible, not identical. The compatibility is there for "good enough", but if exactness is a criteria you're probably better off staying with what you have. Benefits only come when using things actually designed for that figure; using anything else will mostly take some work to get it good enough.

We all have different needs, goals and incomes to dedicate to 3D content, if you have a question that you're unsure of, be specific and ask that question, but don't repeat the same thing that others said multiple times in the last few pages several months ago. That's when the mods see that nothing new is going on and locks the thread.

I would prefer not to have to quote my own posts from there.  The ones where i did ask these conversion questions.   Others were aware of my questions?    As for asking, I do not want to sound rude but super pro genesis users are not going to be honest without blasting the older figures or my resistance to upgrade.  You have proven that.  Andfor my other comments, I was new to that thread so as far as I was concerned it was not old business. Once again, I am not trying to be rude but really?   This is what I am talking about.    If this topis is old and boring then why keep posting in threads like these?

I do not ask This is a real issue for us and we are asking for a real solution.  The uproar this continues to bring should say something.  Would it be better that we didnt care at all?

I had been commenting on a thread such as this on the "other" site and like all of the others they locked it even if the thread itself was not negative in any way.  

So I have my doubts about Genesis 2?  Those of us who are not Studio cheerleaders are speaking our minds and we are hoping that something better might come out of it all.  I thought they would have made a difference with Genesis 2, guess not.

I am concerned about the skin stretching that has happened when converting from M4/V4 to Genesis, and if that still happens with the newer figures.  

See; I am asking these questions to see if I want to push forward, and I want to see what others have gone through.  If I post the question in a thread praising the figures I will not get an answer that does not include a gushy response about how the figure is wonderful.  Therefore I post in a thread where commenters are both pro Gen2 and against it.  

You see, I am not endowed with hundreds to spend on these toys, as that is all they are to me.  These programs are not money makers for me, I sell art that I create with my own two hands. So maybe my heart is not into it as much as the companies think it should be.  

I have to ask these questions. I've no other choice.

Sorry to sound so negative but to see my questions and concerns be so easy to toss aside by companies that I once respected and honestly helped fund to get to this point, kind of brings me down.

I rather like how the artists pages are situated. They are easier to navigate imo.

Love them so much!  Thank you!

That is so cute!  I love the detail; especially how you have the little ones leg hanging out like that.  :)  You have so much talent, thank you so much for everything! 

I've been hoping for these, they are perfect thank you! :)

I actually will look into purchasing M6, his muscle mass looks good, and he does not have the giraffe neck look when it comes to his head to collarbone ratio that M5 had.  

Not really sure why Daz decided on the separate figure set up once again after all the boasting about Genesis and it's ultimate uses but I guess we roll with the punches.V6 isn't something I want, so I will probably be sticking with Genesis/V3/V4 for my girls.  I downloaded G2 male but have not used it yet, now at Share CG Sickleyield has converted DieTrying's 182 morphs for V4 for the G2 male so I am anxious to see how it all works.

Anyways it is finally nice to have a figure morph set from Daz that I am honestly really excited to get my hands on since Genesis came out.

When I was around four years old I was already a horror fan, nothing bloody, gory, or cannibalistic scared me.  

Then one day someone gave me a childrens picture bible.  For the first time I was scared to death, there was so much blood, suffering, and murder in that book all with pretty little pictures to show me the details.

What I was to believe was good just turned out to be scarier than any fake movie or image I had seen before that.  Everyone has their own opinion, and to me the blood, gore, and all out dark creatures on these sites (many that I purchase and use often) are neater than the many perfect faced girls with the same button noses.

To each his own...

Thank you so much!

What I find interesting is that someone who deals with putting images on another person's skin would be so willing to give an honest person some bad advise that could land them in a heap of trouble.

I've had my dealing with tattoo artists, many have seen my work on my galleries and have asked if they could use the images in their own shops, even going as far as to show me the finished product.  And I have to admit that I am honored by this, as an artist I love to know that people enjoy what I do.

But I have seen other times when tattoo artists use my sketch work in their resume portfolios, without my permission and it does bother me.  Luckily I am not about going after them with brimstone and fire, if they cannot draw then their lies will get them in the end.  Still not all artists are so easily deterred from legal action, so it is best to be careful and if you see an image that intrigues you contact the artist and give them your idea.  Who knows, they might be excited to hear what you will use their work for.

:)

Hilarious, too bad that it's too true, and we are in big trouble in the States.  

Quote - > Quote - Ummm now after all of that I have a few questions, and since this thread is still user friendly I though I may ask a few questions, Autofit, this is one of the main things that I need to work when I do purchase my Genesis goodies.  I've heard mixed feelings on how it works, some say clothes carry over smoothly and others say the program does not work well on all clothes.  Is there anyone looking into this, I see you have posted that the Gen 3 figures are in the works for autofit, unless that was wishful thinking on my part, and I would like to think that by then autofit will work smoothly on the G4 outfits as well as the G3 ones.  Because I would give anything to be able to use all of my Gen 3 content on a figure that I can morph into having hooves for feet.....

Well... I have good news for you.

1. We are indeed working on Gen 3. We have already released David 3.  A3, M3, and V3 are half finished.

2. We are doing R&D on how to make the fitting better, we recently updated the autofit clones and they work better now and we are looking into other options to give you flexability on how the fit is adjusted. 

3. Our Engineers prioritize development in three week segments. In the current segment they are looking at how they can improve the fitting of shoes, and how to carry over bones and morphs in the the process

4. We are we are going to be doing hooves at some point. With Geografting this should be easy

 

If the above is a stupid question, I apologize, I don't know much about the technical stuff and I haven't yet had the chance to use autofit for myself, just going by posts I have seen by those who have.

 

A new equine on the way, call me excited to hear that.  YAY!

Well we are committed to the idea. It hasnt been put into the pipeline yet. I am guessing Q2 2012... but that is just an informed guess at this stage.

 

Also, I thank you for coming on here, braving the storm so to speak, so that those of us who want to have our voice heard without having to shout above the uproar just to be acknowledged have that chance.

My pleasure, its great to talk nicely with Y'all (yeah, im from Tennessee... wanna make sumthin of it? LOL )

Thank you, and that is great news indeed.  :)  When everything comes together for Genesis I think it's going to be a real fun model to work with.  I've played with the base already and gotta admit that I enjoy how it feels like you are working with an actual clay model that you can sculpt, so to hear that the possibility of using older generation clothes and shoes on it is coming is a relief and a joy all in it's own.

That along with the Generation X add on that allows for M4 morphs to be transferred to the figure I will be all set.

As for the horse, I would love to see it as versatile and flexible as Genesis.  Sure a horse that can be morphed into different breeds is ideal, but also to see it capable of being morphed into a day old foal, a weanling, or to have the look of a yearling would be awesome as well as seeing what mutation/creature hybrids we could see come out of the model.    Just a suggestion ;)

I really do thank you for the answers Randy, looks like my worries were for nothing and I have a lot to anticipate for when I upgrade. :) 

Quote - Funny how someone with proper knowledge of a horse's anatomy doesn't get shut down and ridiculed as someone (or make that plural) with proper knowledge of human anatomy did (back in the other place). It smells fishy.

But anyway, some seem to forget that there really aren't only Poser users who are unhappy with how things are going. Some of us longtime DS users are more than happy to make the switch in programs due to the treatment received. Some of us are even being called traitors.

What of it?

I rarely post here, but this statement is too true as well.  Whenever I have expressed my uncertainty about Genesis and it's ummm, odd morphing issues I felt a little ridiculed by those who continue to advocate for the "Best 3D figure in the world". 

The mixture of the morphs in one model can cause problems, I mean Vittorrio for V4 looked strangely feminine when morphed as well, and the female morphs for M4 just the same and I am picky when it comes to the look of the anatomy of my figures.  There are problems I see, many that I know will be fixed in time, but I felt that I would try to voice my opinion on them.  I was merely wanting to give some positive "negative" feedback to help out, and it was turned around against me.  All of this even after I stated that I am excited to try the new Genesis figure and that I am an avid Daz and Poser user so that I have no restrictions based on program choice. 

When I posted my concerns about the idea of gender mixed clothing from one outfit, the thread was locked because of the negativity going on around and I don't know if my post was even read due to the fighting going on.  Which is the fault of both sides, I agree, and the thread had every reason to be locked.  I was hoping for a thread that avid and brawl ready Daz "fanboys/girls" ,and I really hate that term as I am one of them, would stay clear from with the understanding that there were going to be negative points being made, but I saw posts from the same culprits calling out every concerned post with hostility and sarcasm, and than the fights began.  It would have been nice if both sides could have played nice so concerns could be addressed or atleast aknowledged by those in the know.

Incidents like that make me very resentful against something that I was anxious to try and use and spend tons of money on.

Sure I just spent a heck load of cash on DS3A, M4 and V4, kept my pc Membership up as long as I could, and spent money at Daz that I didn't need to just to show my support.  And at first shot I was hesitant to try the new figure, but many of my favorite PA's have done wonderful things with the figure and now I need to have it.

  But those types of backlash for a comment not meant to be demeaning in any way, that put a bad taste in my mouth, and that is why many may be upset about this rift.

Daz_Rand, I understand that you cannot control those who post at the forums there, and because of this my intentions are still focused on Genesis and DS4A and I have no animosity toward any of the moderaters nor the company itself.  The help and support I have received from many with the "Daz" before their titles, and the PA's who are wonderful enough to help and support my art as good or bad as it may be, outweigh the few who have brought about the negativity and arguments there.

But for me the money issue has only stalled my ability to use the new toys, it was the negative feedback anyone gave of it all that caught my attention even more.  The battle is not always surrounding Daz vs Poser users, as I am one who enjoys what both programs have to offer and I have been caught in this whirlwind of craziness.

Ummm now after all of that I have a few questions, and since this thread is still user friendly I though I may ask a few questions,

Autofit, this is one of the main things that I need to work when I do purchase my Genesis goodies.  I've heard mixed feelings on how it works, some say clothes carry over smoothly and others say the program does not work well on all clothes.  Is there anyone looking into this, I see you have posted that the Gen 3 figures are in the works for autofit, unless that was wishful thinking on my part, and I would like to think that by then autofit will work smoothly on the G4 outfits as well as the G3 ones.  Because I would give anything to be able to use all of my Gen 3 content on a figure that I can morph into having hooves for feet.....

If the above is a stupid question, I apologize, I don't know much about the technical stuff and I haven't yet had the chance to use autofit for myself, just going by posts I have seen by those who have.

A new equine on the way, call me excited to hear that.  YAY!

Also, I thank you for coming on here, braving the storm so to speak, so that those of us who want to have our voice heard without having to shout above the uproar just to be acknowledged have that chance.

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I support this petition