Hi John with me its very much a personal thing that I dont generally comment on an image that doesnt give any details of the content. I dont have Vue Pro only Vue so it maybe that all your image content is off the program CD, but not knowing whether thats the case I am more inclined to not comment. I just have this thing about models free or purchased, that if they are good enough to use to enhance an individuals image, then they should be good enough to credit. If I just use Vue then I put All Vue, in the details, that makes it fully clear. I commented on others images long before I posted, I realised on other gallerys I had posted on that it was a community thing, you dont have a group of employed commenters. If I didnt comment then others might feel why should they bother to spend time looking at others work, eventually you would end up with nobody commenting. As it is, it is usually a small group that try to comment on as many images as possible, out of all the people that post. Of late I have found it difficult to keep up with through other things to do, so have not been commenting as much. Have you commented on at least some of the images around yours,it's not compulsory, but you are one of the source that commentors come from, it is a point to think about. This is not intended offensively, I hope you will take it in the spirit it is intended. Dave

Regarding Sentinel's remark about the difference in the C4D hot twenty and Vues, you only have to look at the greater amount of input into the Vue gallery and of course the Poser gallery to realise why there are more people voting in the latter galleries. I use Vue, but to be fair on the C4D users there is a lot more work in most cases to turn out an image in their app. Most C4D artists create all the content of their images, whereas most Vue and Poser artists use mostly off the peg stuff, inevitably there is likely to be many more people in the Vue/Poser camp and a greater turn over of images. I try to comment on as many images as possible in the Vue Gallery, but like Djeser being on dial up, its slow and to be honest sometimes Im lucky if I can get through looking at 4 images in thirty minutes. If they are large file sizes, (over 400KB), I sometimes just give up waiting for the image to come up if I am short of time, I generally try to keep my own images down below 300KB. I have been very busy of late and if I have missed two or three days on the gallery, there generally is so many to try and catch up on, I often later realise I missed something quite outstanding. I would like to see more new comers take part and share in commenting, some come on and throw on a fair number of images, open for comments and rankings, but do none themselves, do they presume there is a paid group of commenters. I started commenting on images sometime before I ever posted, I felt that if I expected people to take the time to look at my images I should take some part first. I agree that names can get votes, but it isn't neccesarily people who take much of an active part in the gallery. Sometimes a name that gets massive votes, I have only seen comment on others work maybe once or twice in this last year I have been involved. Dave

Thank's Kattleprod, that would seem to be a good idea, it hadn't crossed my mind to try that. To retain the glass look obviously a degree of specularity would have to remain, but it could probably be cut down quite a bit. Thanks for the comment on the image also. Dave

I would agree agiel, but it isn't just on the net that artwork is stolen. For some years I modelled and cast my own miniature figurines which I sold mail order, even in that line of work there were people out there that would take moulds from others figures and sell them on as theirs. If you never put anything on the net but just sold framed prints, then there would be nothing to stop somebody buying one scanning it in and producing copies. Agreed you will never totally stop piracy, even big companies can't, but my point was to acknowledge a well intentioned gesture by Renderosity. Dave

Also posted on relevant thread. It seems to me that there is far too much negative flak regarding Renderositys attempt to protect their members artwork. Whether you agree or disagree with the move at least give them credit for a well intentioned move and save the flak for those that steal others work for financial gain. I know of a case on another forum I am a member of, where a packaging design company had taken an image without the artists knowledge and it was used as packaging for a well known hardware companies item, without their knowledge either. I am sure that even the most generous artist would find it unacceptable for a commercial enterprise to be using their work in that way. Lets try to be grateful for Renderositys efforts, not resort to deriding good intentions even if there are many ways to circumvent it. Dave

It seems to me that there is far too much negative flak regarding Renderositys attempt to protect their members artwork. Whether you agree or disagree with the move at least give them credit for a well intentioned move, and save the flak for those that steal others work for financial gain. I know of a case on another forum I am a member of, where a packaging design company had taken an image without the artists knowledge and it was used as packaging for a well known hardware companies item, without their knowledge either. I am sure that even the most generous artist would find it unacceptable for a commercial enterprise to be using their work in that way. Lets try to be grateful for Renderositys efforts, not resort to deriding good intentions, even if there are many ways to circumvent it. Dave

I still find I am left with a question regarding the example images. When I first had Vue I used the example pictures to assist me to understand the way Vue pictures were assembled, I realised when you rendered them that Vue plants that did not come with the program were not in the images and it just rendered black. My opinion at the time and has been up to now that as it didnt state you could use the content, then you probably couldnt, I approached it obviously from the opposite direction to many. My other reason was that some of the models if not the image creators own copyright, may well be copyrighted to the original supplier, if a figure, it might be Poser or other, and any other model may also have a copyright separate from the image creator. Am I right in presuming then that e-on get clearance on copyright regarding all models contained within example images, so that the program user could not find themselves in breach of copyright laws. Dave

Yes I would agree with you Spit, but the presentation of the textured item in the image it is used in is a purely a subjective thing, depending on the viewers opinion. I dont understand how that ties in with the difference between a painter painting an item from scratch and somebody including a ready-made item. The latter is like a painter sticking a cut out photo of his item on the canvas. I dont for a minute decry the use of ready made stuff I wouldnt use Vue if I did, but some credit for the end result of the image goes to the Vue creators for the trees and other items in the program, and any extra pre-made items you use. We all have the choice if we want complete credit for everything in our images, thats to learn something like Lightwave, C4D etc, or paint it all to 3D standard in a 2D program. Dave

I had not seen the message from Nightvoice when putting on my last message. There is a difference between a painter actually painting an item and sticking a ready made textured item into a computer graphics program. Dave

It seems to me that erka is getting some unfair verbal stick here, I read nothing authoritarian in the words, it sounds like a reasonable request to me. I found when I first started that it was easy to forget where I got textures from if I just stuck them in a folder labelled textures, I have not got round to learning to create all my own textures yet. I realised that those free textures must be important to me, and if so I have a moral obligation to find a way of remembering. The simple way was to create a new folder with the name of the website the texture was downloaded from, then when I move it into Vue or other graphics program, I just add the name of the website to the texture name, no great hassle. I have only used about one free model in the images I have done but the same procedure applies, a folder with the website or creators name on it, if I consider it worth using then I owe the person that kindly gave it a credit. I consider everybody who assists me in creating my image whether by tutorials, free stuff or purchased items are partners in the creation, why would I use these additions to my art if I was capable of doing all of it myself. Even programs are important to mention, look at the excellent Wings 3d, totally free and a wonderful program created by Bjorn, who spends endless time on it, if he can spend all that time for no returns, doesnt he deserve credit. As far as taking items out of the Vue example images is concerned, I consider that taboo, in my book they are on the CD to assist you to understand how to compose images, not to plunder for free stuff. There are far too many taking particularly free stuff for granted, that it may just end up with fewer people being prepared to supply it. I frequently dont bother to comment on images if I have no clue of what was created by the image creator and what by others, how do I know which is the image creators input, I have seen some images that would have been nothing without freestuff. I dont supply any freestuff in case anybody wonders if I have a personal axe to grind. To answer Joerg, its not about fame, its just thanking people for their help, and there is far too little of that in the world today. Dave

Thank's for the info compiler, but this is just for the purpose of making some clothes for Vicky and Mike for personal use. I'm not sure I shall ever even get round to actual conforming clothes, they will probably only be suitable for one image at a time. I can in theory just model the clothes in ZBrush from a primitive or Zspheres, but it can be difficult to fit them to the figure. Its not the modelling I have a problem with, it's the technical stuff. Dave

Thanks for the tutorial info, I'm just off to seek it out. Dave

Thank's for the help and suggestions, I will try the suggested methods. I was obviously misunderstanding the grouping tool. Dave

Thanks for the link tradivoro, I had better get there quick while they are still free, LOL. Still it has created an interesting discussion. Dave

I will certainly let you know if I get a succesful result. Dave