On the video, I think the hair looks acceptable in it's movement, although it doesn't seem like it should be moving quite as much. As mentioned, needs a bit more stiffness. The hop is ok, but the landing is too floaty. You need to add some more "gravity" effects to the landing. Even though it's a short hop, I would expect her head to move a little more on the landing, and for some reason, it just doesn't look solid. Shouldn't take more than a few more tweaks to some keyframes to get right.

Her skin. The skin looks good, but somewhat plastic. Not so much in the video, but that close-up still image you posted looks like a plastic doll rather than organic human. The lack of shading depth inside the nostrils, and around the eyes seem to give it an unrealistic quality. I also feel the eyes should have more intense specular properties. They don't look wet.

Message edited on: 02/19/2006 20:19

The studio I worked for a couple years ago wouldn't touch Poser, even for PreViz. It was just a messy application that seemed very unstable and limited to work with. It was actually quicker for us to previz shots with a Biped skeleton from 3ds CharacterStudio, which was about all we used 3dsmax for at the time. All final shots were usually done with Maya or XSI. Oh, come to think of it, I believe we did use Max for certain FX comps and matte creation along the way too.

At any rate, I'd be interested to know what compositing options you have with Poser's hair system. Can you run it in a buffer mode, where the hair could be lit and comped into the frame seperately in post? If you render it as geometry, does Poser have the ability to run it as a seperate pass from the scene geometry?

Perhaps even more important than all this fuss over how fast it renders is how well it behaves with important effects, such as motion blur.

Message edited on: 02/15/2006 07:29

Well, I've never used Poser's hair system, so I don't know if it's a "toy" or not. I've never used Shave either, but what I'm saying is that I have seen Joe's hair system used in serious studio production work many times, in both movies and television, so I know it's capabilities are production-proven. It's also a testimony to it's success that 3 of the 4 biggest applications in 3D/fx have adopted it's use, much like MentalRay, which no one disputes is one of the best renderers available. I can't say the same thing about Poser's hair system, because so far I haven't seen it used successfully in any serious production work.

It could be a powerful tool, but so far, I've only seen it used very little, in short clips or stills, and nothing that I have seen overly impressed me. Not talking about the examples in this thread, I'm talking about over all.

Message edited on: 02/14/2006 22:01

richke, in order to give the best advice possible regarding your choices, I for one would need to know if you are serious about learning 3D animation, or if you are just interested in it as a perpetual hobby, and nothing more?

For serious enthusiasts to 3D character animation, I'd recommend downloading Maya PLE, and doing as many tutorials as you can find. There's lots of free meshes available out there that may not be the best, but will help you get going in the area of learning to rig a character, and afterwards, animation.

Even if you've never so much as animated a bouncing ball before, you can learn to do that in Maya PLE as well. Learning the basics in Maya will definitely give you a much more secure foothold in advanced animation techniques later on, and will translate to many other applications well.

On the other hand, if you have no interest in eventually learning 3D in more depth, and all you want to do is animate some simple things for fun, then just about any application with a timeline and basic keyframe capabilities will do.

Message edited on: 02/14/2006 21:44

Attached Link: http://www.joealter.com/newSite/rendering.htm

Some things that need to be mentioned:

The "Hair/Fur" plugin that Maxxmodelz is using in 3dsmax is basically the exact same implimentation of Joe Alter's popular "Shave and a Haircut" CG package that Maya uses. This is not the same as the PaintFX hair that Nemirc is showing (see link). It's the same thing, adapted, and given a new name for use in 3dsmax. I've also heard that this is the same hair platform used to create Cinema4D's new hair plugin. Although I don't know it for a fact, I believe I read an article where Joe himself basically accused Maxxon of robbing his invention, without giving him due credit.

This kind of hair is an atmospheric effect, and meant primarily for use in professional compositing. So if you're not using layers or compositing techniques with it, chances are you're not getting it's full potential and power.

From what I can see, Poser's hair system is nowhere near the maturity of Joe Alter's award-winning hair dynamics system, so the comparison of the two is quite unfair at this stage. Poser's hair implimentation is fairly young, is it not? Having only been in existance for a couple versions. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but that's the information I gathered.

Message edited on: 02/14/2006 21:31

The ideal character rigs use a hybrid of IK/FK blending, which I don't believe Poser has. IK is almost always necessary when animating a walk cycle or footsteps.

Message edited on: 01/28/2006 03:27

From what I can tell, it seems you're on to something cool here. The ethereal lighting helps enhance the mood, which works for me. The parts that don't seem to work are the ones you aren't showing very much of. The girl's hair movement, for instance, seems stiff and unnatural, but I can't really tell for sure since you only show glimpses of it.

The eagles's motion is far too smooth and slow. If you watch footage of real eagles, or any bird for that matter, their head movement is very quick, not at all like human head movement.

Message edited on: 01/27/2006 17:32

There isn't much to crit here except possibly the editing, as mentioned. The style is great, and the animation is solid from what I can see. I love the camera work.

On the negative, definitely too many fades; too soon and too often in most of the shots. As a trailer, I don't think you're letting some of the shots progress far enough to tease the viewer. The editing seems more frustrating than appetizing.

Message edited on: 01/27/2006 17:29

The Brothers Quay! Yep, this character definitely reminds me of some of their works, especially from Street Of Crocodiles.

Things I like: The textures and pants dynamics. The clothing textures look awesome, and the pants movement is very realistic. The footsteps are animated well also, from what I can tell.

Things I dislike: No arm movement at all. At least some up and down motion as he takes a step would help this. The shirt looks too stiff, but that depends on what kind of material you're simulating. Looks like a heavily-woven wool or something, which should have some more movement.

He certainly has an interesting appeal to him. I can't wait to see what kind of environment you do for this, because it will have to be something with lots of depth and texture if you plan on doing the Quay brothers any justice in their influence.

Message edited on: 01/27/2006 17:22

I enjoyed it. The only real complaint I have is that I was not into the visual aesthetic/style you chose to render the 3D elements with, and that actually played against my throrough viewing enjoyment. I liked the humor, editing, postFX, and particularly the use of those old fashioned "cutouts", which was unique.

However, the texturing and lighting of the primary characters and their environments just seemed far too amateur for this otherwise excellent clip. Your animation is well done, but in my honest opinion, you now need to concentrate more on making interesting textures, even if they are toon shaded, and more involved environments. The look and feel of the clip just screams "Poser" to me. Not that I have anything against using Poser in a production if it fits the need, but in this case, I was left with the feeling that you simply didn't put enough effort into the visuals, and it kind of left me flat. Some parts were just begging for some additional eyecandy, however subtle, that would have put the entire clip over the top.

Message edited on: 01/15/2006 00:07

"Is it worth me investing in buying Maya?"

Actually, one of the only reasons so many large studios depend on Maya is because of it's strong connection to PRman renderer, which is an industry standard for hi-end movie and video rendering due to it's vast modularity and superior rendering quality. Connectivity with just about any other 3D app is a serious problem for any version of PRMan (although now that Autodesk owns both Maya and 3dsmax, you may see Max get a stronger connection to it as well).

I don't like to drop names, so I'll just say that I had worked for several studios in the past years that used Maya, but knowing the app inside-out was not a prerequisite to landing the job. My portfolio at the time consisted mostly of 3dsmax works, with some XSI as well.

The translation between the "big 3 or 4" apps is pretty smooth for the most part, with some exceptions. For instance, I picked up on Maya's workflow fairly quickly. The hardest part is getting used to the different interface, and some new tools.

Message edited on: 01/06/2006 15:20

Maxxx, perhaps a little ancillary facial movement in her expressions as she turns her head would perfect the shot. Eye movement looks good from here. The visual aesthetic of that scene is impressive also, Maxxx. HDRI, I presume? I like the way her skin looks, with what appears to be some SSS going on there.

Hey, I checked out the wire version, and it's not bad. In fact, it's quite good, but still has lots of room for improvement.

The back of the neck looks very strange when the character bends it's head down. I'm not sure if that's a skinning problem, a mesh problem, or a combination of both. You might try working on that part a little more. Also, better check the finger positions again. The pinky seems to be in an odd position. Maybe it's the POV, but it doesn't look right.

You have some nice subtle movements in the face, which I do like a lot. A little more work, and it should be good.

Message edited on: 12/08/2005 22:56

I have to second that endorsement. ParticleIllusion is definitely what you are looking for here. Highly recommended.

Are you up for some critique?

I think you're doing a very good job so far. The only problem I have is with the lip-synch. The timing is definitely off in some parts, and there needs to be more ancillary facial movement. You did a wonderful job with most of the primary movements, but your phonemes need to be tweeked manually for a more natural appearance. Also, as mentioned, the bending on that dark-haired girl needs a lot of refinement.

It wouldn't hurt to add some motion blur, especially at the end, where the ship is accelerating into warp.

I like the POV in the opening shot.

Message edited on: 12/08/2005 18:28