....you're the cats pajamas Modesty ! ( always liked you and your work - a true artist ) --- I'm not exactly here anymore either ( no gallery ) - just drop in once in awhile ---- best of luck in whatever you do --- I can count on one hand the people that really made this site worthwhile - and you were one of them -------puss and kram !

....just to put in my two cents ....I'm going to buy my FIRST digital camera this weekend ( Canon 30D ) --- finally decided after months of checking out different camera reviews and handling the merchandise in local stores --- as to the Nikon 200 -I did read a few reviews that sited noise problem -- really surprised me - considering that everything else about the camera seems top notch - go figure!.....it just seems that Canon's got the aps sized sensor down pat -- competition dodges this way and that-- but just can't quite equal it ( in the semi -pro arena ) --- but I'm just a digital virgin - so take my opinion with a grain of salt!

....thanks again guys - for the advice & a new word - 'anoraky' ----- and it's true , I guess - if you read between the lines on user reviews -- gleen what the general characteristics of the lens are ---and can locate a chart review ( harder to find ) - then I guess one can come up with a pretty good idea of whether or not it suits ones purposes. -- then of course , I would imagine - there's a variance in the quality of the actual lens you buy which may or may not be an Edsel...er ---- lemon for the younger generation.....but that's life !

@ Tom Dart ---hey - that's the site ( fredmiranda ) - I went to for user reviews -- but it doesn't seem to matter how much the lens costs or whether it's an L lens or not there's always a lot of people who will slag it and run it down - opinions are just all over the map on any lens - one review gives it a 10 and calls it the sharpest lens ever - the next reviewer gives it a three and says it's the worst lens he's ever bought -- it also makes me feel that some of these people are much more into their equip than photography! --- like people who buy expensive stereos to show off to their friends - but don't actually listen to much music ---hmmmm - perhaps I'm a bit jaded ---- I just want to get a decent camera/lens combo and get back into the creative aspects of photography/art ---

@ Danob ---- several years ago I bought a medium format Pentax 645 and 3 lenses --- beautiful machine - but for me it was too heavy to lug around and expensive to run -- then I got a smallish Pentax SLR MZ-5n with two light weight zooms ( 28-200 )- put them in a small shoulder bag and I was ready to go -- walking long distances was a breeze......so I don't want to go much further than that in what I would carry digitally ---- I would guess there are those out there that use a backpack filled to the brim with equipment -- ( & and my hats off to them! ) - but I like the idea of achieving my aims with the least amount of equipment possible - ( still don't know how old Ansel Adams managed it! ) ----but I guess a 30D and two zooms wouldn't be that much of an anchor! -----

....thanks greatly for the feedback LP ! ---- someone said the 17-40 didn't perform as well on full frame - ( soft on edges - but just one persons opinion ) - but I understand why buying EF lenses have value down the line ( camera bodies can come and go - but a good lens will live on ) -- so - if APS sensors go the way of the dinasaur - at least one will be left with something.... .....maybe the new 30D will ship with Elements 3 or 4 thereby solving the raw converter problem ------- not sure if I want to go the raw route - but will give it a try - seems that it might keep one chained to their computer processing images - I like the part about being outside on walkabout looking for pictures - blood flowing - healthy ! --- but too much time chained to a computer bothers me a bit -- however --- when a really good photo opportunity presents itself - it would be good to go the raw route and wring every bit of quality out of it ... ( listen to me --- I've never even shot a digital camera before! ---but...I think I'm ready ) .....cheers

...thanks LostPatrol and ironsoul !-----I was hemming and hawwing ( great words ) - on whether to get a 20D after they went on sale recently - and they were just snapped up like hotcakes ! -- just empty spaces on the store shelves now ---so I guess the 30D is now my best possible buy ---- but then comes the lens choice and subsequent trip to the poor house after purchase! -- there's the EF 17-40 F4 L USM ---which frankly looked so damn good attached to an XT that I almost bought it on the spot ---- but the reviews are mixed on whether it's a good deal - and it has such a short range ---- then there's the EF-S 17-85 4-5.6 USM -- much better range - could leave that on the camera most of the time -- but those damn reviewers either love it or hate it ( I don't think I trust them that much ) --- and then there's the kit lens - which I imagine might be nice at f8 in sunlight - but soft otherwise ---- ---- it's good to know that there's not too much dust/sensor problems with the Canon's -- so perhaps I don't need to think Olympus. ....as to software - I just use the original Photoshop Elements - ( although I have an uninstalled copy of Photoshop 6 --- perhaps one could install a raw plug in to it ? ) - and how is the supplied Canon raw software ? ...@ ironpatrol ---- I'm just talking about manual focusing instead of autofocus.

Here's what I would ideally want in a DSLR camera: - at least aps sized sensor - at least 8 meg ( for large detailed blow ups ) - one or two good lenses - wide to medium tele - don't have to be too fast. - little barrel distortion at wide ( or use PT lens to correct ) - solid body - feels right in hands - not too heavy - good quality with highest jpeg setting - offers jpeg + raw option - fairly good macro capabilitity - not a dust magnet ( sensor ) - Canon seems better than Nikon - Olympus or prosumer the best - seperate top mounted status lcd -- good - bright- big viewfinder for manual focusing ---- straightforward controls & menus - not cryptic & easy to switch to . - nice smooth manual focus ring . - good 2" + lcd that can be seen well in bright sunlight - good noise levels in higher iso's -- not too damn expensive

....thanks for all the information ! -- I regularly visit dppreview, Megapixel ,The Luminous Landscape ,Photography Blog, DC Views etc and keep up with all the reviews -- I also live in a big city with several large camera stores- so I can see the actual models avail -- I own a Pentax SLR film cam and lenses so a Pentax DSLR might seem the answer -- the *istDS2 comes the closest ( nice handling - large lcd - good viewfinder ) - but seems to be let down by j-peg quality and only 6 meg ( at least according to the reviewers) Aso am interested in the Olympus E-Volt 500 along with the 2 kit lenses at a good price -- has nice lcd and design - but SMALL viewfinder and too high noise levels at 400 iso and above ---- The Sony RD-I prosumer has a great lens for any camera type - but awkward body , evf viewfinder, and HUGE raw files ! -- SO ! - each camera seems to have a built in achilles heel - the deal breaker --- now - no matter what camera a salesman shows me - when I ask what THEY own - it's almost always a Canon --- ( I think they definately have the best sensor and processor ) -- The Canon 30D looks to be the best bet -- but then there's all that 'good' & expensive glass to buy for it - $$$$$$ ! ( and lugging around a heavy camera bag ) --- also hoping for a new high quality prosumer camera at the PMA show ( I like those all in one deals and fold out live view lcds ) --- but camera companies seem to be phasing these out because they can't make as much profit selling add ons ) SO ! - there you have it! -- it's just that no camera just reaches out and GRABS me and says I'm the ONE ! -LOL ! ---------- Then there's the new Panasonic DSLR coming out this year which has a lot of appeal ! -------- anyway -- I'll grab one eventually -- it's just not as easy as I thought to select one ---- ( I don't care for fast burst rates - sports photography - etc -- wide angle , good detail & landscape photography appeal to me the most )

.ps --- there has been a trade off in the past - with dye based inks looking better than the more permanent pigment inks -- but that gap has apparently narrowed --

..Mz Florida ! -- you might have to rob a bank - win the lottery - or wait a looooong time to purchase a printer that will do 16x20's - esp ones printed with pigment inks --- plus they would soak up a LOT of ink --- then - given that you're a perfectionist -- might take several stabs at getting the print just right! ----- 12 x 19 seems BIG to me -- but maybe I just think small! ---- but - really - I'm happy they now make printers that make semi permanent prints-- ---( a big factor in colour photos not being accepted in the art market in the past.)

......Hi Brenda * wave* ----- it would seem to me that the Epson printers ( 1800 - 2200 - 2400 - and larger format ones ) - would be a good way to go in that they use pigment inks which are claimed to have a very long life ( something I think would be very important in selling a print ) - also they print better on a lot of 'specialty' papers --- I presently have a Canon -- but what good is a beautiful print that won't last long ? ----- the Epson 1800 will print up to 13 x 19 --- would seem well worth the investment ----16x20's could be printed by someone else for you ---just some thoughts Ms Florida.

...@ Margana ---well I guess there is always the question of what to do with photos -( if one's intentions are not to sell them ) - that factors in ---- but I do think printing them will really help one progress to become a better photographer/artist because the print will show up a lot of defects that the screen won't reveal --- it seems to me that your 2200 is quite an expensive high quality machine to not use much! --- although I realise it costs a lot of $$ for ink , paper & experimentation ---- but maybe worth it in the long run.

....at present - I am looking to buy my first digital camera with an aim to print images up to at least 13 x 19" -- so I've been reading a lot of camera reviews of late -- so for me a good - at least APS sized sensor at around 8 megapixels should do the job -- I'm just holding back because the PMA show might introduce some new models -- but I was just wondering how many people hunger after more megapixels than they would actually ever use -maybe - a lot of people want the just the option to print occasionally - while leaving most of their work in the computer ----- what I'm also questioning , in a way, is whether the main method of display has shifted from print to display ---- maybe I'm old fashioned - but I like to have something solid as an end product - not a file in a computer that might never get out of the machine !

....thanks coolj001 - I'm seriously looking at the Epson 1800 ....I think printing an image really lets one get a better line on things -- what looks good on the monitor often doesn't quite cut it on the printed page -- it's a good way to further refine the piece I think.