Thank you.
As you probably know, I haven't done this before, not on any site.

Regards
zippy

Thank you. It's not that I'm in a hurry, I just haven't done this before, first model for sale and I'd like to get it right. It's just a test sale for me.

By the way, would it be possible to put the image specifications in the Rostiy Terms of Sale, rather than discovering them half way through completing the submission form - by which time it's too late to alter one's images.

Quote - > Quote - Trekkie, I am not selling myself short.

My models are crap on a technical point. I didn't know all those years ago that I should have turned off 'smoothing' for the model parts. The result was that my models all looked shiny and false, like they were made of plastic.

Wrong. Smoothing has nothing to do with that. The plastic appearance is defined by the shaders/materials. Something else I know a lot about...

I was talking about smoothing vertices!!!!!!!!!  I know all about the plastic feature of shaders. I do know that my models look a lot better when I turn off the vertices feature. I know because I'm doing it right now and it works.

I am not coming back to this post.

Bagginsbill, I have always been aware that P8 is totally different from previous versions, it has often been stated that the program code has been entirely rewritten. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough. As a matter of fact I do now see where you are going and would agree with your proposition. I just wish you'd stated all this before, but I guess you didn't know then.

However, I am not willing to provide detailed information on the areas of info you request, openly on this forum, in case it threatens my security. I don't want the whole world seeing the details of my computer, especially the details of my security, which I've now changed. This is a public site and I have lots of problems using the Rosity message service.

I am also not cross. Severely depressed would be a better word. Finding a solution to this problem is taking up too much of my time when I could be getting on with work using Poser 7 only, and dealing with all my other paperwork. At the moment, and I'm prepared to admit I'm wrong, it doesn't seem worth the effort to change to Poser 8 and risk further problems. Yes indeed, what you say above sounds sensible and logical, but I need a fully working computer or my paperwork is buggered. You see I am totally responsible for someone in full time care, and I have to correspond with people, and family, on a regular daily basis. Having to spend hours sorting this out is something I cannot afford to do. And given the choice between P8 and my dependant relative, I'm sorry, but P8 is the one that has to go.

If you like, I have no objection to you requesting Renderosity delete this entire post if you are unhappy with the title. I can't say fairer than that, but even if you are right about the true cause of this problem, the people who sold me this computer did not tell me that I would be able to run software, except, that I would have problems integrating Vista with P7 and P8. Come to think of it, I'm wondering what effect Windows 7 will have on Poser.

So lets end all this now by saying that I am freely giving up P8, plus any future Poser updates, just so I can continue to do my essential paperwork. And you can ask Rosity to delete this entire post. You and SM are right, I am wrong. Problem with P8 solved.

By the way, I apologise here to smtihmicro for saying I don't like the new interface. I didn't think I shouldn't state I don't like something, and I also apologise to smithmicro for not appreciating how much different and wonderful all the features are of P8. I withdraw everything I've said in the above posts. I shall now return, tail between legs, to my corner.

Trekkie, I am not selling myself short.

My models are crap on a technical point. I didn't know all those years ago that I should have turned off 'smoothing' for the model parts. The result was that my models all looked shiny and false, like they were made of plastic. They look horrible in Poser lighting. I'm taking them all down and closing the freebie site, partly because I get virtually no thanks from downloaders for supplying them, and partly because they look so awful - which may be why people don't comment. People won't miss my old models as there are far better ones in the store and freebies. I was thinking about rebuilding them all and selling them in the store.

For a long time I had trouble creating models with Poser 7, P4 being not so fussy as P7. I just couldn't get the model past the assembly room, it kept saying some of my parts weren't grouped to a bone. Well I've now discovered the solution, so am back in business, if only the Renderosity staff would answer my queries on how to sell stuff, but they haven't replied. Anyway, the problem was that one shouldn't group map model parts, but should map all parts on their own. Poser rejects groups of parts that are mapped only once as a group. For example, don't apply one map tag to a group of planks for a door. Each plank has to be mapped on its own, or Poser won't link the planks to a bone. But this only applies to Cinema, I don't know how it applies to other modeling software. Anyway, the problem is now solved...that's if I ever want to continue making models. I've just completed a walled garden, with several options, and I've also got a beautiful highly detailed stable block almost finished. But I'm basically frightened of the process of selling stuff through the stores, and the store staff here at Rosity don't appear to be very enthusiastic about giving advice on how to package up the item, because my garden model is all ready to go.

Oh, and by the way. As for not showing you messages, the fact that a tiny unreadable message about flash player popped up where the library should be, is entirely the fault of SM engineers who hadn't anticipated that people wouldn't be able to read such a small message; let alone be able to act on it.

Quote - > Quote - As for two nights ago, I'm sure someone hacked into my computer.

Or... the Vista Indexing service kicked into overdrive when you added your large non-P8 runtime(s). You never did show us any of the messages you got, or your active tasks. Then you said you were done with P8 and you hated it.

So I didn't bother continuing to help you investigate what is going on.

Which perhaps indicates you haven't read some of my input, or it's possibly a waste of time repeating it.

1)You know very well  I've told you that for weeks I've been repeatedly loading my P7 runtime into P8, without crashing the computer, so there can't be a connection. You know that!

2)There's no point you complaining I haven't shown you active tasks, when you haven't thought of explaining how to extract the list. Just as smithmicro support asked for specific information, but never bothered to explain how to supply it. You know I cannot supply a screenshot of a very long partly concealed list. AND, you didn't ask to see it, you just said "I need to see it badly", which is not the same as "Can I see the list, and here's how you get it"

3)And now we are left with your opinion that my drives indexing is the reason my security got totally knocked out, when it has never happened before with P8, and certainly doesn't happen with P5, and P7.

4)You know I didn't say I hated P8, I said I didn't really like 3D art in general. I made it very clear I still consider P8 an unresolved item, and not just for me, either. We probably have a bleak future to look forward to of problems with further upgrades, P8 is not the last. I haven't had a peep of a problem with CinemaXL, Carrera, Hexagon, Daz Studio, or any other 3D software that runs perfectly happily on my computers, and has done so for years. P8 is the only serious exception.

5)I don't think it's occurred to you why I felt it essential to delete those extra 2 rogue installations of P7, because I thought it possible P8 was searching for all three runtimes at once. I remember from a long time ago that programs that get duplicated can screw up another associated program that is only linked to one instalation. That might well explain that P8 was slow because it was trying to load three duplicate runtimes at once, and that's why it speeded up considerably when I deleted those extra runtimes.

6)Nowhere do you acknowledge that P7 works perfectly well on my computers, even it had a screwed up runtime, and was running, accordeing to you, on a screwed up computer! That strongly suggests to me that whoever wrote P7 managed to produce a program that is far more rugged and dependable than Poser 8 - or that P8 is intended for a computer that is far superior to mine.

Quote - Zippy, I was not in anyway refering to you at all. my apologies.

Ironically, I had no problems with Poser 5, or 4 either.

Look, to be realistic, if any business gets (according to comments here) 99% of its customers happy, then that's all that matters to a modern business of today having made a huge investment. Besides, no sensible business is going to release info on product problems until they've had a chance to try and fix it, that's if they think fixing it is worth the time and money. If problems persist, then, and only then, will a serious problem arise for that business. If the problems are fixed, and/or no further problems arise, then for those of us who stil experience problems, the fault may be our own computers. Either way, we may never know, or may never be told, what is, or what went wrong...and to be honest, from the feedback I've had from Smith Micro support, they don't seem to have a clue what is causing me problems. It is funny though that whatever the problem is it isn't affecting any other software I've got, apart from CCleaner, which is now fine without P8. If, as baggins suggests, my system screwed up, then that 'should' affect my other software, but it consistently doesn't. As for two nights ago, I'm sure someone hacked into my computer.

There's that old saying, though, "There's no smoke without a fire."

Quote - no it wasn't... there was a lot more ppl having problems then.. this has actually gone smoothly for all the yelling and screaming by some...

Yelling and screaming?

Well I hope you have the same problems as we "yellers and screamers" do, then you'll yell and scream as well.

There is still no certainly what has gone wrong with my copy of poser, or if I did have a virus or not. I could have been hacked by someone reading this post. All I know is that my security software has never ever been turned off and jammed. AND my computer is, as always, running perfectly okay without Poser 8 on it.

I just thought I'd add that somebody here might wonder why, if I've got my computer working again, why should I no longer want to use Poser 8. Well, this is in my own opinion why not...

1. I do not, repeat, not, like the new Poser interface. It is very ugly, not to mention cramped, and the only way it can be used effectively wouold be on a monitor the size of Manhattan. P7 interface is beautiful and easy to use, P8 is not, and that goes for Daz studio, too. I do not like being boxed in when I'm working, and floating palletes all over the place is a messy nuisance, not a solution.
2. When I first had P8, I managed to use it perfectly well for several days before it crashed, and in that time I can clearly say I found virtually no difference whatsoever between its features and those of Poser version 7. So on that point alone, it was not worth the update cost. In fact I don't think there's any justification for updating beyond P7.
3. Even when the P8 library is working efficiently, it is still slow on my computer, as compared to the wonderful P7 library. There was no need to change it IMO and that's another reason why the upgrade is to me a waste of money. I still suspect that the P8 library cannot cope with large and complex runtimes, and I seriously doubt that it was ever tested on a huge runtime like mine.
4. Both previous versions and P8 might be great for people with a huge room full of networked super computers, but Poser in general seems very limited in scope when run on a bog standard basic home rig like mine. I therefore suspect that the stated system requirements of ALL versions of 3D art software are entirely wishful thinking, and more to do with sales optimism than domestic practicality.
5. And apart from the above, I wish I'd never ever encountered the world of 3D art, which has taken over my life at the expense of my original vocation as a traditional designer and illustrator. 3D art has not only cost me a considerable fortune, but has failed to deliver results that are anywhere near as personally satisfying, or as high a quality as the artword I did before. And I certainly wouldn't bother to defend any of the many freebie 3D models I've made, because they are all crap, too, at least in comparrison with much of the high quality stuff in the 3D stores. So in a nutshell, I don't honestly want to continue with ANY version of Poser, or take part in its future, because I don't really enjoy Render art, especially if any of its software is going to take up all my time trying to make images that no one really wants, or fix the software, or it is going to cost me money which I really don't have to spare. IMO, the world doesn't need 3D art to survive, and won't perish without it, no matter how stunningly beautiful much of it is. The only thing I am happy to agree with is that Render art does bring the capability of creativity to those who are not naturally gifted artists, and in that respect it must be of great satisfaction and benefit. 

This is only my personal opinion, and I respect any other artists who view 3D art differently.

Right. I've only just got back up again. Something terrifying happened to me last night. I managed to get both Poser 7 and 8 running perfectly. The P8 library loaded the P7 runtime very quickly. And then while I'm writing up a report for this forum my hard drive starts chattering away and up pops that Windows message saying my security has failed. Something had shut down all my security, even the firewall, and no matter what I tried I couldn't get the security working again, so I disconected the net and the hard drive then stopped whiring. I tried rebooting only to then find the desktop in a mess and the Vista gadgets on the right looked all weird. That's never happened before.

With Poser 7 I accidentally, using search, found two hidden duplicate installations of the entire Poser 7 folder and runtime, but I have no idea how they got to be where they were. I wondered if I'd copied them, but I wouldn't have put them where they were, as a rule I only copy the runtime. When I deleted them the P8 library, and the rest of the computer started to work okay, until all hell broke loose. I'm guessing I've had a virus specific to Poser, but whatever it is I'm just sticking to version 7 from now on. Sorry, but I'm not risking any more crashes. I'm deep scanning my computer now for infections.

HOLD ON FOLKS!!!!!!!!!

I think I've found the solution to all this and I'm fixing it right now, because it seems to be working. Give me an hour to reinstall Poser 8. The problem is certainly Poser 7.

Oh God, this is so embarrassing.

I Told you so:)

Okay, Bagginsbill
I've followed your instructions to the letter, and only loaded the P7 runtime, as that's the only other runtime I've ever had.
And now we are back at square one, because after 8 minutes of indexing the P7 runtime (yes it took a full 8 minutes just to index the characters folder) it is now firmly stuck a third of the way through the poses folder. I waited 10 mintes to see if the indexing would continue, which it didn't, so I closed P8. Note, the indexing was extremely slow.

Now my computer access to the start button menus is extremely slow again, more blank white menu windows, and it takes 20 seconds to access either the WinMail or Firefox windows, let alone link to the internet, which takes another several seconds. It's like wading through mud! And in case it may help, Internet Explorer is no faster at accessing the internet either.

No error messages have come up. The only message to appear was the notification that there is a P8 update available for download, which will be the Hotfix patch. And last time I installed that patch it made no difference either.

I quote -
"In the end, I believe we're going to find nothing at all. I think in the past you had A) borked OS, then later B) borked P8 install."

Well something's not right.

mackis, I like my MWSnap screenshot program, it is so versatile and pops up over anything.

I'm going to have to appear rude and ignore you, Trekkie, until bagginsbill tells me to do something. If it's any consolation, I think you may be right about resources, but I've got a feeling now that this problem is going to be found rooted in my P7 runtime. In fact it's looking like a safe bet I'm going to eventually have to erase the P7 runtime and reinstall all my content. This entire post could get highly embarassing for me!

Okay bagginsbill, I've followed your instructions, but something new has cropped up.

I've installed only the 'current' P8 content, to the runtime in my documents folder. I don't need the old stuff, it's in the P7 runtime.

On opening P8, the library had now dissapeared, and was replaced with a tiny message where the library should be, that I'd seen before, which is far too small to read. So this time I got a magnifying glass and it said something about "Flash, click here" so I did, and it asked me to download a recent update to the flash player. Though strangely I had already updated Flash Player yesterday! Anyway, I updated the player again.

The tiny message then dissapeared leaving a completely black area. So I restarted P8 and there was the library again, as a docked pallete in the top right corner. The library is working okay, and instantly indexed.

I exit P8, and everything else on the computer is ok. At this point nothing including P8 is running slow.