Quote - I wouldnt worry about upsetting people RE DS compatability.  Thats a design choice that is kind of yours to make. 

Exactly.

The thing about vendors, especially long term ones, they know the end users. Probably better then anyone else, because their experience is not limited to just forum talk.

It can be extremely surprizing at first just how few customers you see in the forums. Less then 10%.

What I mean by bringing that up is that is that I see a lot of peoples figures fall by the wayside.... at least two a year because they buy into what happens around forums, and neglect the rest. The climates are a bit different.

Quote - Simply rigged figures with simply rigged clothing is usually enough to keep the unwashed masses happy, so that's what everybody's doing.

If he is making a figure for other people to use, most of his users will be your so called crude and unwashed masses. Starting off by knocking them down and insulting is not a good way yo go if he wants it to have some degree of popularity.

Otherwise, you end up a figure just for yourself... which doesn't seem what Shane is trying to do.

Quote - > Quote - If you really get into detail fo that you may need to make use of Poser's new cascading JCM's or ERC'd 'jiggle bones'... which would benefit a naked rig, but will make most clothing makers want to snuff you in your sleep. You'll have to decide how specialized you want to get. I don't remember if you are trying to make this work in Poser only or Poser or DS. For example, DS doesn't have non linear and cascading JCM's yet.

 

I don't know how to respond to this, but I feel like I need to. I actually sat and stared at this last night for about 2 hours before giving up and going to bed to sleep on it. 

Today, after contemplating it again for another couple hours, I still don't know how to respond without it being seen as inflamatory and I don't want that. I think I've pissed off enough people with my views lately and that's never been my intention. I hope I haven't alienated too many folks, but if I have I can't do anything about it now.

All I can say is that I never intended Lucas to be DS compliant. I see zero point in it at this stage and I can't foresee any reason to change that perspective unless there's a real demand for it, and that won't be aparent until people are actually using him, if that ever even happens. ~Shane

Why worry about being inflammatory? Its just a simple question, perhaps you are reading too much into it. The thread is long and a year old, youre going to have newcomers who are not going to have or take time to read the whole thing. Most of the time people will not even read a one page readme file they need for a product, You're always going to be repeating answers to common questions, and get tired of it that it will make you want to puke. That's a normal part of working with stuff you are making for other people (customers, potential users etc...). Par for the course. Nothing to get all tied up in the knots over.

There is significant intetest in figure that works in both, thats the primary reaon Dawn is generating the interest she is. Its not her looks or technological prowess.

Look at products out thete in the world... what gets widest use is seldom most technologically advanced.

Quote - > Quote -

Why are you using the T pose?

 

Because of what Teyon said here, on the first page:

Quote - FYI - if you leave him at the 45 pose, he's not going to work easily with Walk Designer. That's the primary reason we have everything in a T pose. You can model him initially in the 45 - I find I like doing that - but if you plan on folks using him with walk designer and want to save some anger, you'll want to reposition his arms before you start the rig.

So begrudgingly I complied, and have since experimented with numerous angles for the arms and settled for where they're currently 

Darn.

Quote - One of the biggest problem areas in male figures are their pecks. Most of them remain stationary regardless of how the arms and shoulders are positioned. This isn't natural and always looks really bad. 

The inner two thirds of the pectoralis (relative to the ribcage), donlt move up and down very much because they are attached to the bone. If the guy is really plump they will hang down a tad, but seldom lower then the attachement to the bone. Only the outter 1/3 of the pectoralis is not attached (because there is pectoralis minor under that portion), and will be free floating... which is when pecs are big and relaxes they tend to droop a bit to the outside, instead of the whole slab of them drooping straight down. The nipples will float a little as the skin pulls them around, mostly in a bit of a diagonal motion. Most of the upward motion happens when the arms are lifter up over the shoulder and over the head, because a good part of the pec is attached to the clavicle. The part of the pectoralis attached to the humerus, in the first 90° of abdusction from supine anatomical position to the T pose will pull more outwards then up. After that, things get uplled up more.

If you really get into detail fo that you may need to make use of Poser's new cascading JCM's or ERC'd 'jiggle bones'... which would benefit a naked rig, but will make most clothing makers want to snuff you in your sleep. You'll have to decide how specialized you want to get. I don't remember if you are trying to make this work in Poser only or Poser or DS. For example, DS doesn't have non linear and cascading JCM's yet.

Quote - So in order to compensate for poser's T-pose norm (which is about the only place you see the T-pose anymore, on a regular basis) I sculpted him in such a way that most closely resembled what real muscles would do, and their placement/distortion when the arms are raised to 90 degrees (t-pose). Pecks pull up and flatten out a bit as they wrap more tightly around the ribcage, pulled by the shoulders.

Why are you using the T pose?

Ok, I'm going to point out where Lucas is deviating from standard proportions, it is up to you to determine if thats on purpose or not.

The thing about general proportions is this (at least what is usually taught in artistic anatomy): Usually the way we recognize a person from far away (across the street) is becuse of their unique characteristics, which deviate from the 'averge' that out eye is used to seeing. Standard proportions that you find in various textbooks is an attempt to descrive what majority people see in their head as comfortable proportions. When out brain sport something different, we go, oh, I know that person... because of how they deviate fron the bland middle human in our heads. They can be taller, shorter, long legs, short legs, wide body, narrow body and a myriad of other deviations. (deviation is not a bad thing here), itls just a professional term to define a difference. In scientific language there is a 'norm' and a deviation - that's where it came from.  

These are just some things I caould find in the time I have at the moment.

Screenshot 1 - http://gyazo.com/a481835f7d4d1a3b0da2069216cfbf9f

Top left - earhole to bottom of the nose - when looking at a face in a straight-on positon those line up horizintally because they are both sitting on a sphenoid bone which is one of the several bones in the base of the skull. If they donlt line up we can get a feeling that the character is looking dwon at us, buif that is not supported by the other planes of the head showing us a bit of the bottom, it may look like something is off or make the person look a bit longer faced then average. However, you have to account for a little bit of a nose cartilage and flesh to hang over that line. Tricky part about the head is that we are all so highly sensitized to facial recognition that 1/8th of an inch (life size) is a lot.

Top Right - Shopulder girdle assembly. There are a few bony landmarks on the shoulder that will define where the axis of rotation of the humerus needs to be. Arms (appendicular skeleton) are attached to the trunk of the body (axial skeleton) via shoulder girdle, which mostly hangs on clavicle, scapul, muscles tendons, chewing gum and piano wire.  Pay special attention to how Coracoid process and acromion process come together with the end of the clavicle to encompass the head of humerus. That will really narowly define where the axis of rotation of the arm needs to be. In Lucases' case it seems to be farther in from the norm, not just the axis of rotation but the bony landmarks too.

(ok, darn, I was going to do more byut my wednsday sketch sessions people are here half an hour early so I have to cut it short) I'll do more tomorrow or later.

Here's the rest of the screenshots, but I donlt have any pointers to go with that.

http://gyazo.com/a3bba9c7f416d526f373edb2bd811286

http://gyazo.com/a616ec65403b38e93138e228586cee62

Would you post side and back view, with arms about 3/4 down, i want to see whst is going on with a few things.

Fairly high rez, so i can do a paintover, if you want.

Would you post side and back view, with arms about 3/4 down, i want to see whst is going on with a few things.

Fairly high rez, so i can do a paintover, if you want.

Thee is this. I'm not sure if it fits exactly what you need but take a look. http://www.daz3d.com/smoke-and-flames-tool

His anatomy deviates a fair amount from standard proportions and make him look lanky and a bit awkward (which is ok, some people do have that kind of a build), is this intentional? 

What contributes to the arm looking odd is that bicep and deltoid are puffed up as if flexing, while the rest is in relaxed position. Even in someone with very buffed up biceps and brachialis, those two can look surprizingly flat when relaxed.

Brachioradialis origin curves in abruptly again like it it flexing ratherthen relaxed, same with digitorum flexor group. Those two grups of muscles cant flex at tbe same time because they are antagonistic group. One is adductor, the other is abductor.

Those are few immediate things that jump out at me about the arm. Some could be because of extreme perspective used in the pic.

I posted a some how to about this on Hivewire forum, let me see if i can dig up a link....

This thread and couple others in the same forum has info http://hivewire3d.com/forum/showthread.php?493-Converting-a-Dazstudio-Data-Morph-to-Poser-PMD-injection

Quote -
 Part of that is because they see amateurs producing material that is viewed by the public as about as good as things they slaved to produce with all their hard won years of learning to master their tools.

Actually a big part of the problems is because a lot of amaterus think their stuff looks as good, but it doesn't, and lot of amateurs lack the skill to even see the difference, just get all ticked off when they get criticized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

That is Nikki skin by Virtual World, from HW.