Mazak, Just downloaded your poses... thank you! Nice job on those. --Dendras

Blackhearted: It's not my intention to convince you of anything: You are free to contact CyberFX or not, and staying in this thread and arguing with me about how this model was made is absoluetly pointless. I'll repeat this just one more time, since the message seems to be eascaping your notice: I was not attacking BillytheFish for his opinions. I was accusing him as posting under an assumed ID, just as I said above. ///has a right to post his opinion/// By his own words his posts are NOT his opinion: (post 13: ///he pictures were sent to me by a friend, who bought it after reading how "great" it was./// Yet entitling a post "A warning to others" is NOT stating an opinion, it IS product bashing. If I had titled a post regarding a product sold at this site with the same heading I have absolutely no doubt that I'd be banned. -You've challenged the scanning issue; I've provided you with the info (that was already posted). -You've accused the modeller and DSI of lying regarding the techniques used to create Dina, and yet make no effort to get to the facts on your own. -You've accused me of censorship, yet fail to point out where I've censored anyone. -You've stated that you could create a Victoria-based Dina character in less than an hour, then declined to substatiate that claim, stating that you did not have the time, and yet have spent more than an hour participating in this thread. -You've accused Mazak of postwork which he/she has denied, and yet have not responded. -You've now accused me of trying "to discredit him [Billythefish] by bringing irrelevant crap into it." Please note that he's [Billythefish] discredited himself, and that had be been simply stating his opinion I would NOT have responded as I did. What I WILL say is this: Some of the attacks here, and I re-iterate my position regarding "Billythefish", are in all probabilty based on past animosities between individuals and issues which have nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- to do with this model's attributes. Thus, assuming a new identity to product bash based on this IS completely hypocritical, hence my accusations. Note, however, that you attacked me for stating MY opinon. I have no stake in Dina, no invlovement with the development of the product save for being one of the original beta-testers, and derive no share of income from sales. Nonew. And yet you, like so many others, have chosen to lump me in with whatever issues you may have with DSI. Those who proffer their opinions based on fact and observation of the model are welcome to do so, because it is only through criticism that one's work is improved and that one's efforts are increased. However, accusing others of the behavior you yourself engage in serves no purpose but to piss people off. Otaku, in his/her (again, apologies, I don't now) is completely correct by stating "Keeping comments to a respectful constructive critisism go a lot further and shows respect to the other artists. " Well said, indeed. It is currently my impression that you intend on re-orienting this thread into an argument based on personal attack. Had you participated in this thread in an apparently less hostile and antagonistic manner something might actually have been debated constructively. IIt appears that you are becoming increasingly agitated, and that was not my intent either. I'm sorry that others expressing opinions which oppose yours and expressing fact-based observation upsets you to such an extrodinarily profound degree. I, myself, am now exceedingly pissed off (as being attacked is apt to make me feel) , and subsequently I am removing myself from this thread. I do not feel that fair debate is possible, given the current atmosphere. Try to enjoy the rest of day, and be well. --Dendras

/// it angers me when people arent given the right to voice their opinion without taking flak for it/// As it does me. ///and this 'scanned from a real person' mystifies me. just how exactly do you do that? please explain the process in detail. //// From the press release (first post, this thread: ///Dick Cavdek [President of Cyber F/X] and his 3D Scanning Service Bureau out in Glendale, California///. <--- This would be the facility to contact to get more info.

Oh, sorry...guess we posted simultaneously. The challenge of creating a Dina from MWV in less than an hour wasn't mine, Gabriel, it was yours. ///think about that before you post another thread like this, bashing other models openly, then bash those that disagree. /// Please point out where I bashed or censored anyone.

I was neither "bleating", noe was I attacking anyone. By stating that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" I was clearly implying that everyone is indeed entitled to their opinions. However, your use of the word "bleating" would imply that I am a sheep or other herd animal who is supporting this character for reasons that are as insipid as those who are bashing her...and I never accused you of bashing her, now, did I? I was not attacking "billythefish" for stating his opinion, I was stating that I suspected him of assuming a new identity to bash Dina. My posts are in no way ambiguous in that regard. And I am genuinely interested to see your efforst regarding the creation of a Dina figure. Genuinely. 12:54PM.

//besides, in less than an hour i could make vicky look more like the real dina. // It's 12:38 EST by my reckoning. You're on! I'll check back in an hour.

And...how can I repeat this? The poly count has NOT proven to be a problem, but does indeed add detail and morphing abilities to Dina.

I think what DSI and DCort were striving for with Dina was to get away from the "idealized" or "perfect" woman: thus the approach was taken of scanning a model, a real woman: This is not a (::chuckle::) "big fat lie". I'd also like to add that when gifted artists like Jim Burton and DCort introduce their characters to market, they do not lessen each other, it is we who are collectively enriched by their efforts. However, when others skulk about by assuming a new identity to product bash, we ALL become... how can I say this...amused. Displaying any avatar without hair, for example, does not enhance their "beauty". It is for this very reason that wigs are made and sold, because the same holds true for women the real world (at least in our culture). These derogatory efforts are simply childish and transparent. I freely admit that dCort is a friend and an artist I respect, and the value of this model is superb. The work on the joint params and the overall modelling is absolutely superb. If she doesn't appeal to a user, my advice to the user would be simply not to buy her. However, purchasing and using a 3D product is really the only way to see if that product performs correctly and as advertised.There have been times I've been dissapointed with purchases, and far more times where I thought I'd paid too little. As one of the beta testers, I've seen this character's development, and the amount of work and refinement that went into her is absolutely staggering. No character, no avatar, is going to be perfect; no model will be "one size fits all". It is the sheer variety of characters available that makes Poser so appealing. This is truly a case, I think, where beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

I note the way "BillTheFishFishyBill" completely ignores previous comments about suspicions that he is someone with a chip on his shoulder, well known to the Poser community, who has taken on a new ID for the purposes of Dina/DSI bashing. I repeat: No posts in the gallery I repeat: No posts in any other forum I repeat: No freestuff uploads By ignoring these points you've confirmed them.

If these are "the pictures were sent to me by a friend"... Man, that's childish. It strikes me that you have an agenda by posting this in the manner you did. In addition, I see no other posts in any other forum by you, nor do I see artwork posted by you. The only reasonable conclusion is that you've gotten yourself a new identity and that you're the same person who's been bashing this character on other forums and at other sites because of a personal agenda with the creators of this mesh.

The same goes for me. If anyone at this site had a similar problem I would gladly rush over to help. We are all artists, and despite any personal differences that may exist, we HAVE to put those aside and hang together when it comes to doing the right thing. Period. --Dendras

"it would appear that that the images will be removed in the next day." THAT remains to be seen. --Dendras (<---terminally cynical)

Status: U Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:17:40 +0200 (MEST) From: Roissy_Devot@gmx.net To: tervs@pop.mindspring.com Subject: Re: STOLEN ARTWORK X-Priority: 1 (Highest) X-Authenticated-Sender: #0009753177@gmx.net X-Authenticated-IP: [213.47.35.65] X-Flags: 0001 > Please remove the stolen artwoek being displayed on this site. hallo, es tut mir sehr LEID das ich euch so vergert habe, es war NICHT meine absicht!! ich war nur jetzt auf urlaub die paar tage und konnte mich deshalb nicht melden. ich mhte euch sehr bitten das ich die fotos beibehalten darf!! sie sind WUNDERSCH und ich habe KEINE schlechten absichten damit! bei AGNES habe ich angefragt und sie hat mir ihre erlaubniss dazu erteilt! ich wde mich sehr freuen wenn ich eure fotos auch ausstellen darf! BITTE es wde mich sehr freuen und ich wollte NIEMANDEN damit verletzten! liebe grse Roissy -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net -- GMX Tipp: Machen Sie Ihr Hobby zu Geld bei unserem Partner 1&1! http://profiseller.de/info/index.php3?ac=OM.PS.PS003K00596T0409a

--START QUOTE-- Reply from: Juergen.HASENAUER@rizit.at 06/17/01 14:09 PM Dear Sirs By the reason that I%m not the owner of the side you are refering to nor the owner of the server you%re refering to I feel attacked my selve by this spawn attack. If somebody is making copies of your shit it%s not my problem and i%ll take steps against you. rgds --END QUOTE--

Thank you, neurocyber. This is about all of us adding our voices.