Quote - glory of genitals?

er, no. Genitals are actually the most banal, crazy, disgusting, slimy parts of a human being... LOL... but they do cause quite a stir in our society. 

The whole thing is just the persistent reservation of them in official female figures. It is bound to set off some talk. Its not about glorifying them, its about finding out whether or not and how we can deviate from this pattern. 

How to deviate from the pattern, just make the damn fogure with built in genitals, It;s your friggin' choice and decision, just like other people get to make their own decision about whether to make a figure with or without or a strap on. 

You don't need the approval of the community or anyone else, and certainly don't need to innundate a 'mixed company' kind of forum with threads about sex and genitals.

You want genitals, great, make them.

I'd like to not have to stop frequenting this forum if I didnlt want to be innundated with sex and genitals talk 24/7. Unlike yours, my life and work doesn't revolve around them, and it's a kind of a thing myself and MANY other people refer to keep a bit more private, because it is a very intimate and personal thing. Not someting I alway want to have on display. It has noting to do with being a prude, I'm anyting bit, I even made genitals and other things  for one of erotic poser marketplaces myself...BUT, I'm not in here starting a number of threads about it or up in the arms because some poser figures dont have them.

Everything has it's own time and a place. Sex and genitals are not acceptable to everyone everywhere. It's sad that some people here can't respect other people's boundaries and social norms, when in a mixed company public place - which is what this forum is.

Sex is not the only thing people are 'funny' about, there are many tings people prefer to discuss with close friends or with a degree of privacy, and not have it forced on them.

Usually I'm one of those people who think it's odd that DAZ and whomever feels the need to NOT have genitals, but I can understand and respect their decision, and even though if I was making a figure it would have built in genitals, it's not such a huge deal. 

With so much talk about genitals, you've already branded your figure as a niche fogure for porn sites only and you haven't even started making it.  You're going to lose the support of those of us who aren't so interested in pushing people to find sex and public nudity more aceptable in wider circles - which is as you may find out, majority of people. Perhaps you've spent so much time in sex industry that you lost pespective of mainstream social norms.

Also, I'm getting little tired of everyone who doesn't walk without their clothes off 24/7 being called a pruce. I bet even you put your clothes on when you go to a grocery store.

To start wirh, lets review rendo's TOS http://www.renderosity.com/tos.php

No links to sexually explicit sites. That includes signature lines. One can't even look at project E without going through a porn site. This shit desn't belong here.

Thats what 'rotica and few other sites are for.

Quote -  

I dont think the primary thing causing offence is the idea of adding genitals.. its that some people were so offended by the lack of genitals in dawn that they couldn't accept it as a design decision that was communicated well in advance of release.  They were so offended that they felt the need to demonize anyone who said it was fine or they didnt care as being a prude/puritain/closed minded etc etc.  They were so offended that they felt the need to troll her thread telling everyone over and over that they shouldnt take interest in the figure.  

I dont think its the non-genital(or who cares genital) crowd who got overly offended at all.  I think its the guys who felt the need to run three or four simultaneous threads about touting the glory of genitals.  The crowd who keeps harping on this idea of puritanism or religous extremism being the primary reason anyone would take interest in a non genital figure.  Just because any particular persons life or 3d figure doesn't revolve around their genitalia is absolutely no to paint them in any particular light.  I imagine, or at least derive from the tone and wording of the postings that people are thinking of me as one of the 'religous nutjobs who's afraid of her own cunt'  but the reality is that I have a very free, wide ranging and well practiced sexualtiy.  I close the door to the bathroom when I shit too.. that doesn't mean I'm ashamed of taking a shit it just means that I have respect for the sensibilities of those around me.

... and wow that turned into a bit of a rant.. sorry and not all(or probably even mostly) aimed at the quoted poster.

At any rate.. the ankle less figure..

would I be interested, no.  If I was interested in everything else and the ankles were a problem for me I'd do my best to communicate that during the figures development when it could be changed and once that point was past I'd bow out and not worry about it.  If it was possible and I was capable I'd make a fix for that shortcoming and share it with others who also liked everything but that part.  What I wouldn't do is get so offended as to look for anything that could be potentially wrong with the figure and spam it as much as possible to try to drown out any positive vibe, or make it seem like a 'problem' figure rather than a decent figure with some very good points as well as some fairly common shortcomings

Quote - > Quote - I just find it damned weird that people have a problem with genitals at all. Exactly as weird, I expect, as you'd find people who have a problem with those who show their ankles.

Imagine a new female figure. Great -- except no ankles. You can use her for all kinds of shots. Just not the full body ones, or the ones with shoes. People who find ankles icky, or who are afraid to expose their children to ankles, just love her.

^How I feel about Dawn.

Guess not everybody is as openminded as you are. But before you go gore someone else's sacred ox, think how you might feel if some gores yours.

Frankly, I think some people in this forum are a little too fixated on the genitals of some of these figures.

You hit the nail on the head here! Perfectly explained!

Quote -  

Just for clarity, the guys at HW3D never said anything about getting sued or about concerns over what their character might be used for.  From my understanding, in addition to the poser market they have a long term goal of reaching a education market(i assume read this as kids not adults) and have made a deliberate and foundational decision that everything sold at their store will be PG13, including their base figure.  Now I'm not sure that -really- meant that they couldn't have provided the looping and geometry needed to do the morphs, but the reality is that if they didn't actually play at making morphs of some kind they would likely have put the geometry in wrong anyway and instead of the current discussion we'd be talking about 'if you arent going to build the geometry right(from an experienced vag morpher point of view) why put it in at all'  which is really back where we are now - not at all.

Maybe their educational market contacts are near to where they live and they want to cater to that area. I know for example atBbringham Young university art department, even college and post grad figure drawing can't be done in the nude.

When people plan to penetrate a certai market, they tend to go with what they are familiar with, and most people are most familiar with the customs, laws and habits in their local area.

Regardless of the reason, it is their decison.

Quote - From a technical standpoint, for making clothing, it makes more sense to make male bits detachable. But if more people used dynamic clothing that would not be nearly as much of an issue. T

Just have a morph for dressing to the left or right, or whatever you guys do when you have to stuff your bits and bobs inside underwear and tight jeans.

Quote - Didn't DAZ break down and give Vickie some kind of a 'crease' morph? I haven't read the thread at Sunshine Manor so I don't know what the creator said, vs. speculation. 

I can buy personal objections. I can buy wanting to put more polygons in some other area. Fear of being sued? Well, you can give away ice cream on a hot day and risk getting sued. Judging from the other figures available, the too low poly to be abused and get us sued rationale, well, I'm dubious, but that's just my opinion. Maybe they have a shyster who told them that I don't lnow. 

Actually, I donlt have very many personal objections, perhaps beyond that of bing attracted to men and finding female genitalia rather gross, like a slimy slug. Dicks, I can discuss those for a looong time without getting grossed out. I expect for men it's the other way around, you get a mild euphoria going by discussing VJ's.

However, working in corporate america for 15 years, I've had to go to numerous routine 'sexual harrasement in the workplace' yearly remonder seminars that companies are supposed to put on in order to satisfy this or that legal requirement, so I know for a fact this is a real concern.

Quote - Some of you remind me of OCD types, thinking the forum should be empty and void and when a topic pops up and things get hairy...can't process, world is turned upside down...need to regulate...need to control....

Over and over again "It's a pg13 forum" this sort of talk.

Well, it is a PG13 forum, Rendo makes you sign a promise that you are over 12 or something to that effect when you join. I have this strange thing, I usually think that responsible adults will behave in ways appropriate for environment, when they want to discuss things that are getting of more and more sexual nature, knowing that  there may be minors around they would seek out a slightly more private place. I never thought of them as such, but perhaps my standards are a bit more demanding then the minimum acceptable for the forum.

Also, it would be nice to discuss modeling a figure without constant talk about itls genitals. Personally I prefer male genitals, female genitals are EWW like nauseating icky slimy gross snails. I donlt experience the low grade turn on that lot of guys do when talking about female bits, and at some point it gets to be too much Ick to sift through to discuss modelng a figure. When it comes time to discuss a male figure, I'll extend the same courtesy and not go on and on ad infinitum how beautiful his dick is (because I know a lot of guys find that gross).

The rest, when someone makes fairly grand claims, I tend to poke and test their mettle to see if there is any substance behind the claims.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote -  

Whatever happened to Phantom3D that was making a male and a female for this purpose? I lost track of what he was doing after school started for me last fall.

 

I'm not 100% sure.  he was having some health issues but I'm not sure if that is why he stepped back.  I know the poser community could be very frustrating to him and maybe he needed a break.  I sure miss him though he was a real pioneer.  Last thing I knew him to be working on was a weightmap version of James/Koji, which was looking really good.. I always wanted a james that could bend properly!

Yeah, his figures looked very promising.
What, Poser community frustrating... naaah, how can that possible be?!?!?  ROFL  
I understand, COMPLETELY.  SRSLY!

Quote - - Supported - this is the trickiest part! I am now discussing the possibility of making the mesh a V4 compatible mesh. We think that a script that copies the V4 joint centers from the customer's installed V4 from DAZ should make sure DAZ will not get too annoyed. Anything that defiates from existing merchandise will render the figure completely useless. This in itself will determine where the figure goes... but should not be a reason not to try and make it anyway.

• Textures and UV mapping: single mapped? V4 identical UVs? Easily convertible from V4? or completely unique. What is more important: opportunities for vendors, or user friendliness?

You are going to have copyright problems mimicking, following, copying or reverse engineering anyting V4 related. For example, the only way her skeleton can be copied (simplifying the EULA details here) is if you are making an add-on product for her (like clothing, or hair, shoes etc..)  Same with UV's. Especially in last couple of years since they split the market they have gotten extra vigilant about protecting their 'intelectual property'

DAZ also doesn't allow the shape of V4 to be copied by a third party (like for the purpose of having an auto fit clone to refit V4 clothing to another figure.)

Quote - what I mean to say was:

... some of us feel like something is missing. That doesn't necessarily have to be the obvious. They say that Dawn was made either in defiance of DAZ, or to unite the DS and Poser communities. In any case they disagreed with DAZ and formed an idependent movement. That's a good thing, bu I'd love that too. I sometimes also want to have more control over the things I do with a figure. If we have our own figure, we don't have to answer to companies like DAZ or Hivewire3D. We can dick around and make what we want without getting into legal trouble. It is highly ambitious, I know, but I'd love that.

There are several really nice third party figures out there already, with that purpose in mind. Why not join in on and support those efforts, trather then making another new one?

Whatever happened to Phantom3D that was making a male and a female for this purpose? I lost track of what he was doing after school started for me last fall.

Quote - There is just as much more to life than sex as there is to life than truck-driving, but a truck driver has to spend most of his time driving trucks, and make sure he has a good truck and skills to do it. I hope you're not saying that because we're talking so much about sex and sex figures, that we think sex is the most important thing in the world. For me it isn't, surprisingly. Sex is fun, and that is the reason I do what I do. But I also write novels, and make music, which have almost zero sex in it.

Well, in my time in poserdom, which dates back to before 2000, I forget how much before that, yours is the biggest individual reaction to a figure having no genitals I've ever seen. This PG 13 site and forum has suddenly turned into sex talk and four simultaneous threads about sex and figure gentials.  You're so involved in it you didn't even notice this isn't a 'truck diver central' site or forum. Your reaction and behavior here is so over the top that it is impossible for me to come to any other conclusion.

You're talking about reating a whole new figure, but we have about four thread talking mostly talking about genitals, and hardly any mention of an other body parts. If I go by the volubility of talk about the genitals I envision the figure becoming a gigantic vagina, and nothing else. LOL

Quote - A "niche" Poser figure includes any female for Poser not created by Daz or one of Daz's founders. lol.

A very good case study in understanding just how important consumer confidence, marketing, brand and name recognition and reputation work, and how consumers react to it. As much as we like to consider this a communitym there is a hefty level of consumerist behavior in existance.

Encouraging people to see something as a community and giving them a sense of ownership in something is, well, yet another form of marketing.

I was going to say 69 just to be a smartass...

However, realistically 2  
While I prefer built-in genitals on a figure, it is a low priority item when choosing a figure to use or support with content.

Ok, true. Do you agree with him, though?

I think its a little pointless to say what he said. Cool things do happen, right?

Well, if you followed the thread you would have noticed that  Istarted a figure last year, and pulled the plug on the development because I found out that much heavier hitters were making one. I had no interest in making yet another niche figure, and to make something a non-niche figure, you have to do it big, the way HiveWire is doing it. I didnlt have quite the funds in the same amount of ime to compete at that level.

Cool things in business almost never happen on their own or by chance, they are usually a result of serious research, and investment of time, money and effort. For those to whim they have happened by chance they managed to intuitively figure out what the market needs. 

I jumped to support Dawn because what they are doing is what I would have done (they just beat me to it).

As for a third party figure being any kind of a mainstream success - there have been so many niche figures in Poserdom, that users and vendors are extremely skeptical and have very low confidence when it comes to deciding to invest their time and effort into supporting a new figure.

Personally in case of a figure such as what you are sugesting I donlt want to rely on porn store sales to support my content making efforts, while I may like it on occasion, it is not something I enjoy being around 24/7. Also, I am not single, but have a family environment at home, where it is not necessarily appropriate to have display of sexualized content at all times, so having to go to 18 and over place for the figure or it;s content would severely limit it's usability. Much more so then not having genitals. Sex and nudity is a small part of what I do. 

If I made a figure, I would have made it with genitals, but having one without genitals is not somethng that would make or break a figure for me. Since someone beat me to making a figure that can be supported in both, DAZ and Poser, I'll focus on what I was doing to start with making content for it. I thought about making one anyway, but I donlt think the market is big enough, and I do this for full time work, rather then a hobby, so I have to be careful about picking my battle, or I loose the roof over my head (and my family's heads)

I've looked at your stuff, and I'm not seeing the skill level to match the kind of figure you talk about making, or something that would have a chance of wowing everyone.

Take a look at this gal's work - now that's someone that has the skils and artistic sensibility to make a figure that will knowck everyone's socks off - at least when it comes to understanding and shaping human form. http://hivewire3d.com/forum/showthread.php?407-Daria-female-character-for-Dawn-W-I-P 

I know the question that follows is going to be what is wrong with nudity around kids or teenagers, or a family environment. Our jobs as parents it to teach them things, and I donlt want to teach them it a preferred sexual behavior to objectify others for our own sexual enjoyment. I want to teach them that the best sexual experience is when you have a complete relationship with your partner, physical, intelectual, emotional and spiritual. I know once they are out in the world they will experiment with quick sexual gratification, most of us hoomans have done it and will continue to do it generation after generation, but my job as a parent is to teach them to have something to strive for, not minimum aceptable legal behavior. There's MUCH more to life then nudity, sex and orgasms, those are actually rather fleeting, and if someone learnd to give them disporoprtional value, they're likely to have a rough (emotional) life.

I really donlt care one way or another, there is a time and a place for genitals, and for no genitals. When it gets to be irksome is when people get 'in your face' and pushy about their views, whether it is about genitals or no genitals.

I prefer that be left to my personal choices.
Having said that, I have not used 3D genitals, especially female ones so much to find what is available now deficient. I tend to have a higher degree of interest in male gentials.

If I was being pushy, I'd get all insistant about having enough geometry on her so she can grow a weeniee, especially considering that in a real person, elements of those organs are shared on males and females, just rearranged in differnet places.