I know there were some problems with importing Visemes with various versions of Genesis (DS to iclone) and there were numerous discussions regarding workarounds here and there for each figure, even Genesis 9 with it's split mouth rigging. I'm pretty sure they all relied heavily on 3DX via FBX export from DS to iclone. Possibly, it's also more of an Iclone suggestion for modification of it's import process, and I see you already have a thread over at Reallusion discussing the process. But it can't hurt to cast the web wider to see if anyone can help out with something like this. I agree the results would be interesting and useful for iclone animators, especially if streamlined and easy to enact.

The best person to ask regarding the feasibility or any potential major issues surrounding your suggestion is probably @WendyLuvsCatz or @wolf359.

I suspect it just may not be possible without a major plugin or possibly a converter of some kind to translate, tbh I have pretty limited experience with Iclone so I couldn't say for sure. 

You do realise that Daz encrypted content was nearly ten years ago right? And if you are interested in some history here is the thread you are referring to. Encrypted content was primarily an attempt to protect content creators content from piracy...

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2895510

Seems that this is almost proof of Daz 3D's ability to pivot based on customer feedback and amazingly all of the doom and gloom of that thread amounted to not much with the passage of time, right?

But have no fear I have no intention of further engaging in this thread. Calls for boycotts and outright piracy are a step too far for me.

But as I have said, you do you okay.

All the best

@DarkElegance

I'm not saying you shouldn't have frustrations, nor even complaints I'm only asking is this the appropriate forum to be airing your grievances?  Is what's happening here in any way constructive?

Support can be a delicate balancing act with many factors involved, some issues can be solved easily while others tend to be much more involved. Anyway, doesn't Daz 3d offer a 30 money back guarantee on all items? You could also try the forums which tend to offer a lot of help when it comes to isolating issues, which could see a patch pushed through to correct a problem. I've noticed what does tend to be fixed is an item that many people have found issue with as oppose to a single issue reported by 1 user which is sometimes hard to pin down in support. Having sold here at renderosity I have experienced how 1 user with a product issue, that may not even relate to the specific product itself, can soak up a whole bundle of hours. The amount of hours I spent here explaining the installation process for DS products to users who picked up an item on sale for a few dollars and couldn't "Get it to work" is insane. So forgive me if I'm a little sympathetic to Daz 3D's position with support. I also have my share of frustrations with the industry from aspects of AI implementations to piracy, but that's an entirely different subject.

I'm not defending poor support, nor trying to admonish you at all. I am just tired of seeing this forum used as a vent when someone has a had a bad Daz 3D experience and feels this is their way at getting back, decrying the evil of the empire apparent. I used to enjoy coming here and offering support to users of Daz Studio. TBH not really anymore, I don't really have the time nor the patience to read vents and rants from a very vocal small amount of peeps, most of them just wanting a pot shot at Daz 3D to try to even some score. So the result is I just don't visit here much, and it's probably the same with many others. So all you end up with is less people to offer help or support.

Do you really think Daz 3D staff are poring over this forums saying "Good Point... Somebody take a note of this"?

But hey feel free to have it, Rottenham just blocked me and carried right on.😏 

Honesty this thread had moved beyond realistic requests for technical information quite a while ago. And is well on its way to becoming a dumpster fire.

As is this one: DAZ moderators are censoring ANY MENTION of g9 to g8 morph conversion

I offered technical help in this forum for years but found the weight of negativity allowed to thrive here made it almost impossible to positively contribute. 

Some may say the Daz 3D forum is over moderated, others may say some forums are under moderated...

I am not admonishing anyone. Nor is a request to keep the tone here as constructive and civil "telling people how to behave". As far as "Not very professional either." I'm honestly not sure where you are going with that?

Just so you know where I am coming from. Here is an example of a thread here from a few years ago (One of many with a similar slant. Some far worse.)

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2973864/genesis-9-announcement

Here is an example of a thread with myself offering technical help here (One of hundreds of threads over the years):

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2986584/hands#msg4482142

Did you have a technical question in regards to Daz Studio?

Again to be frank, I would prefer Daz 3D spend their time developing new features like FIlatoon. Rather than running around attempting to oil every squeaky wheel that doesn't agree with this decision or that direction. I get it you may have concerns over the ethics of AI, some may have concerns over the introduction of Premier and the direction that's heading. To have concerns and preferences is absolutely human and perfectly ok. That doesn't mean you have the right to demand moderators answer all your questions or an expectation that Daz 3D will just drop something in an attempt to please everyone across the board, just because someone thinks one of their decisions is a bad one. 

To be honest I prefer forums that have a degree of moderation and that don't tend to allow negativity for the sheer sake of negativity to thrive and taint the well for everyone who visits.

Sure, voice your concerns but please try to at least keep it civil.

Honestly, I thought this was the Daz Studio forum, not the Daz 3D - 2 Minutes of Hate forum...

Maybe have a read through here when you have a minute:

https://www.renderosity.com/wiki/policies/terms-of-service

Frankly, I think Richard deserves a raise and possibly some payment from Renderosity for moderating these forums also...

Yep, Caveat emptor...

https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/165594/hydralisk-for-poser?aid=5613:2024-08-25

@FirstBastion I thought you would like this.

Top 100 3D Artist Montage | Eternal Ascent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNjMSFLkMZA

Time will tell, it helps to think of AI as a tool rather than as an evil cotton spinning machine.

Like most tools it's use could be nefarious or productive, it depends on the wielder or the implementation in use.

Personally I don't think it is a bad thing for a business to be on the technological edge. Honestly if you are not moving with technology, you are being left behind to some degree. 

And regardless of whether anyone likes it or not, LLM's are here and are being implemented in almost every possible imaginable application and likely some that are entirely unforeseen at this point. LLM's are an established disruptive technology and at this point there really isn't a two fork road anymore.

Honestly If you don't like AI you might need to shift from using computers/cell phones at some point and perhaps move off the grid.

I know art is a very personal thing and honestly I still like the feel of a human creative process visible in "artwork" but at this point it is getting harder and harder to distinguish or even define what that truly means.

I thought I would help you guys out by making a list of things to avoid such as industries that are integrating AI or LLM assistance into their workflow or Software companies who are integrating AI as part of their overall offering. Just to help put some perspective on this for you.

Industries

- Healthcare

- Banking

- Logistics

- Retail Services

- Cyber Security

- Transportation

- Marketing

- Defense

- Coding

- Education

- Office Admin

- Legal

- Language Translation

- Data management

3D Software Companies embracing AI

- Maxon (Owners of Zbrush & Cinema 4D)

- Autodesk ( Maya, 3DS, Autocad, mudbox)

- Blender (Multiple AI addons including an official stability addon)

- Adobe (Generative AI in PS etc)

- Sketchup (Official Sketchup Diffusion)

- Rhino (Supporting numerous official addons to integrate Generative AI)

... ...

General Companies

- IBM

- Amazon (Including web services)

- Microsoft

- Google

- Alphabet

- Adobe

- Oracle

- Baidu

- Nvidia

- Meta

- GoDaddy (Renderosity's Website host provider...)

I can add more if you would like but these are just a small sample of some of the major ones.

Hope this helps.

The palm does have some bones in Genesis 8 which can give some degree of control. These bones in the palm do mirror pretty closely true human anatomy. The main difference would be in the wrist area or the carpal bones which are a pretty complex series of interconnected points in the wrist. You also need to consider the amount of hidden morphs or (CBM or MCM's) used in something like making a fist in the Genesis series, These help to give the whole hand a more natural look.

When posing feet and hands I generally use a combination of Pose controls and individual bones to achieve the look I am after. Another trick you may consider is turning off or extending the limits on particular bones parameters to give a greater range of movement for those truly flexed poses.

Could the hand and feet be better/more realistic? The answer is definitely yes, but with the caveat that would also add more complexity to realistic posing and further break pose usage between generations of figures.

Happy New Year atpo!

@EA - Sure AI's impact is going to be broad and substantial. But it will also be transformative as well. Photography didn't necessarily wipe out fine art painting, but it did transform it. There are a lot of parallels here between the two. 

I thought I would see what AI thought about the subject. I asked: "Will AI art kill other forms of digital art?"

The AI responded in long form, I then asked it to summarize the answer. Here is the result:

"While AI-generated art is a significant development in digital art, it's unlikely to kill other forms of digital art. Here's why:

- Diversity: Digital art encompasses various techniques and tools beyond AI, allowing for a wide range of creative expression.

- Human Touch: Many people appreciate the emotional depth and intentionality that human artists bring to their work, which AI-generated art may lack.

- Collaboration: Rather than replacing other forms of digital art, AI technology often complements and enhances them, fostering new artistic possibilities through collaboration.

- Artistic Communities: Digital art communities thrive on diversity and innovation, with AI-generated art becoming a part of this ecosystem rather than dominating it.

- Audience Preferences: Ultimately, the survival of any art form depends on audience preferences, and there will always be audiences for different forms of digital art.

In essence, AI-generated art adds to the richness of the digital art landscape without eliminating other forms of digital art."

Interesting response but maybe the AI is just being friendly and hiding it's true plans for Global domination. I find the response regarding communities interesting, one thing I have found is the sense of awe when seeing a true masterwork created in Daz, Blender or Poser. You really get the feeling that someone spent significant time and effort in crafting a piece of art that is true to them. Creating a kind of unspoken bond or kinship between the audience and the artist. In comparison I sometimes find that AI art feels a little more disposable, especially when it's flowing in torrents. Sometimes I see something and I'm like "wow" and then on closer inspection change my mind to "Oh, it's just AI art" and move on quite quickly. Maybe this idea is just an adjustment phase, as over time the line between straight AI art and other mediums will continue to blend together more and more. They likely had similar reactions when comparing digital art to more traditional art forms in its early days also.

It also reminds me of my early art training when asked to draw comparisons on Art vs Illustration. To me it seems like art comes from within and illustration is created by a third party adhering to a brief. Sound familiar? There is a certain amount of lack of control that innately comes with most AI art when handing the idea over to the model.  Begging the question 'who is the true artist behind AI works?'

Though one thing I am sure of is, an artist can never have too many brushes in their set. 

Possibly the forums could be livened up here by adding some AI chatbots to engage with the last bastions of great digital artists? ;)

I think you guys are over complicating things surrounding the issue of content. I don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way but in my eyes the content issue is much simpler. 

In 2011 Genesis was introduced creating a rift as a disruptive innovation at a time Poser was mainly in a circle of smaller incremental updates from Poser 9 onwards for several years. REF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poser_(software) (Have a look here at the developments after Poser Pro 2010, things seem to slow to an evolutionary pace)((+ Someone needs to update the Poser wiki page as it stops at 11.2)) So basically it was revolution vs evolution which always generally goes one way in a marketing environ. 

This created a fork in the user base as many were interested in Genesis and some were directly opposed. Many users decided to peak there head over the fence and liked what they found there. A platform focused more on delivering a stream of user focused content or as some may term it "selling make art buttons". At this point the market began to radically alter and sales of Poser products started to drop in the market. Many Poser users embraced the core of Poser as a self creation program and begged for tools to aid in that end. Vendors seen the change in sales numbers of content and generally migrated to vending for both platforms as this was a viable option initially. Over time the returns on one side just didn't justify overcoming the hurdles of the different direction of both platforms. So Poser content support seen a slow decline by third party creators as a response. I also believe from maybe Poser 8 or 9 onwards the market began transitioning from mainly a community driven 'make and share freely' content experience to a more commercially based concept. These factors over a decade led to the current content situation. The broader digital art market is now facing a few new forms of potentially disruptive technologies such as AI image generation, but that's another subject entirely.

I'm not going to go into my ideas how of how I think it's best to correct the trend as that tends to be pretty divisive subject. But I do see some indicators that things may be heading in a positive direction with Poser and Renderosity definitely has both the Poser community and the future of the platform in their foremost priorities. I'm looking forward to future announcement of the direction of Poser 14 from Bondware.

Honestly I've been a member @ Rendo since 2004 and the Daz Forums have always been a bit of quiet here. It's not really a new thing. Also It's not the primary forum for DS users and never really was. Honestly I post here less than I used to as at times I have felt the wrath of moderators who feel that anything other than a passing comment is an "Argument". There are also a core group in some parts of the forum who have strong beliefs in particular tools purity and feel the need to stand on anyone's fingers who dares to bring any counter points to a discussion or even suggestions for future development. TBH it just got old for me, I do stop by from time to time and see the same antagonists having the same arguments from 2015.

In the past I have ran private competitions, posted relevant Daz update threads, vendored at the storefront here, offered help to users and have even been asked to moderate this forum. But over the years I have noticed the threads that see the most attention tend to be contentious ones with a small vocal crowd shouting down any 'unwelcome' ideas.

Poser is currently in some kind of years old content crisis, despite regular updates, as the vendors jumped ship/platform years ago when Poser content sales numbers floundered. Primarily due to a lack of a modern base figure and development tools. I believe the cry in the day was something like "Genesis we don't need Genesis, Poser is a creation tool not a content platform!" and I guess those loud voices got what they asked for... Leading to the current situation where a DS content importer is just not worth the investment time for Daz 3D and the Poser faithful will not even entertain the idea of a Renderosity developed importer. Poser is also selling at a base price of $250 USD which is creating a blockage to growing the user base in comparison to other software suites. And despite the storefronts appearance these are primarily Poser forums. (Check the best selling items page it is and has been consistently for years over 90% DS products. But on the back end the support for a DS crowd has always been minimal and an afterthought).

Another factor to consider is the growth of platforms like Discord over the old style forum setup. These often provide a less curated 3rd party environment for discussion with more diverse mixing of users. As far as I know there are no Poser or Renderosity Discord forums, official or otherwise.

So I would say it is a combination of the shrinkage of the Poser user base, competing technology platforms and diversity of forum environments are the main factors at play. But what would I know. ;)

Just to give you an idea. Here is a ten year old thread regarding Renderosity's support for DS: https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2877803/daz-studio-gallery-question

These look great, typical AI quirkiness aside.

To me the process seems not so far from the origins of Poser tbh. 

"Born from Larry Weinberg's desire to be an illustrator, Poser was created to be a better mannequin for artists to use as a reference.

Weinberg started with a small wooden mannequin from an art store, but it wasn't quite right for what he wanted to do. Then he asked himself a question that would change the course of computer graphics and digital art: Why not make a digital mannequin?

So, he turned the experience and knowledge he had gained at his day job as a programmer and animator in Hollywood to build the first version of Poser.

The first version was released in 1995 as a simple visualization tool for artists to quickly and easily create poses (hence the name Poser) to use as a human simulation."

Excerpt https://www.posersoftware.com/article/419/a-brief-history-of-poser-with-larry-weinberg