Thoughts? Is this going to be the V7 killer? She runs under the handle of Pauline, Paul is yet still unspotted

While very early days and to be honest there is no sight yet of the mesh or bend quality of Pauline.

There is a first impressions Poll up, which can be found here: http://strawpoll.me/5910994/r

Initial reactions from the first 20 or so people attached below.

Why didn't you just add a spoon to the picture Razor?. I am not sure how long this thread will last but for the record in the real world I would go for v6 then once rejected v7 once rejected I have another crack at v6 I don't give up easy. But this would require it's own thread. Although these are probably early images and we don't even know if finals there is work to be done and they are base figures. But I would also add Genesis 2 was only perfected by what the vendors managed to achieve IMO a great content creator hits the tools on any of these it is open season. Any could come up a winner

LPR001 posted at 2:05PM Wed, 04 November 2015 - #4236794

Why didn't you just add a spoon to the picture Razor?. I am not sure how long this thread will last but for the record in the real world I would go for v6 then once rejected v7 once rejected I have another crack at v6 I don't give up easy. But this would require it's own thread. Although these are probably early images and we don't even know if finals there is work to be done and they are base figures. But I would also add Genesis 2 was only perfected by what the vendors managed to achieve IMO a great content creator hits the tools on any of these it is open season. Any could come up a winner

Very true, but generally great content creators are attracted to an appealing base which has a good customer demand. First market impressions are very important for a new figure, so if these are just WIP's they still lay a first impression with the customers and vendor base which is valid. From what I can tell the figure appears to be in Beta mode (If not further along) so I would be surprised to see massive change to at least the base figure look. V4 wasn't successful because she was born perfect she was successful because of widespread appeal and adoption. The same with the Genesis Series in my experience. Is there really any need for a spoon?

hmmmmmmmmm I will go walk the dog

If that is what Pauline is going to look like I will pass.

Back when I saw her first, out of the box V4 made me cringe. What mattered was much malleable was for content developers. Before saying anything about Pauline, I wait for clay/wire/UV test pattern renders and UV layout(s).

P.S.: my spider senses are tingling. I sense nervousness. What's the matter? DAZ sales are not "positively" affected by the DRM related news?

It's to earley to really tell. Right now, she looks to male. Typical SM-mistake. Look at her chin shifted to the front. That's all fixable with some morphings. What would be again a mess, is if her expressions looked bad. Except Miki1020 and Miki2, there has never been a "in house figure" , with acceptable useable expressions. From those few pics,I would say, she'd never be a G2F or G3F killer.

chaecuna posted at 7:10PM Wed, 04 November 2015 - #4236822

Back when I saw her first, out of the box V4 made me cringe. What mattered was much malleable was for content developers. Before saying anything about Pauline, I wait for clay/wire/UV test pattern renders and UV layout(s).

P.S.: my spider senses are tingling. I sense nervousness. What's the matter? DAZ sales are not "positively" affected by the DRM related news?

Lol, I think you're mistaking innate curiosity for nervousness. There is plenty of room in the market for a strong Poser figure, if one can be delivered by SM.

And you're right the details are scarce about the internal mechanics of Pauline at this this point (Mesh,rigging,supportability,usability,etc). As also are renders of her bending or with an actual expression on her face.

As I said it's very early days for Pauline, but if preview renders are ready for show and tell. Inevitably opinions will begin to be formed.

Was there DAZ DRM related news? I hadn't noticed tbh ;)

-Timberwolf- posted at 10:43PM Wed, 04 November 2015 - #4236830

It's to earley to really tell. Right now, she looks to male. Typical SM-mistake. Look at her chin shifted to the front. That's all fixable with some morphings. What would be again a mess, is if her expressions looked bad. Except Miki1020 and Miki2, there has never been a "in house figure" , with acceptable useable expressions. From those few pics,I would say, she'd never be a G2F or G3F killer.

Too male LOL If you squint she looks like Mel Gibson after a night out on the town. Agree on the Miki figures I didn't mind those at all they are a couple of great characters. Whatever happens SM needs a new character base.

Strictly speaking, Pauline isn't competing against V7, she is competing against G3. You are comparing a base (Pauline) to a highly refined morph (V7) of a base (G3) Nitpicking ;) But it's all in the eyes of the beholder, personally I find G3 and the entire line (except Bethany) to be highly unattractive.

Here's a side-by-side comparison of G3 and a slightly modified Pauline.

edit: picture yanked from a thread at RDNA, can't figure out how to link pictures in this damned forum software grrr

That looks better, they should throw those other images out! LOL

Being one who has no 3D loyalties (Daz to Poser to Carrara to Poser to currently Daz w/iClone to fill the animate/dynamic gaps)....

Seems a good figure, but without some type of auto-clothing conversion technology...I can't see it's adoption. Dawn is a good figure as well, and even with access to all of the Genesis and V4 stuff through Clones...she struggles to make her mark. Folks are too spoiled with Clone and auto-fit to use utilities to convert massive runtimes.

Instead of gunning for vendors to "start" making stuff (which I agree is also needed), at this point you need to be able to "auto-poach" everything that is made, and continue to do so. Us vendors won't care, as a sale is a sale, no matter who wears it. :) That, along with the Poser loyalists, may re-invigorate the line, which I would be glad to see! :)

I hate to see one company start to corner the market. It's bad for consumers! ;-)

DreaminGirl posted at 5:09PM Wed, 04 November 2015 - #4236860

Strictly speaking, Pauline isn't competing against V7, she is competing against G3. You are comparing a base (Pauline) to a highly refined morph (V7) of a base (G3) Nitpicking ;) But it's all in the eyes of the beholder, personally I find G3 and the entire line (except Bethany) to be highly unattractive.

Here's a side-by-side comparison of G3 and a slightly modified Pauline.

edit: picture yanked from a thread at RDNA, can't figure out how to link pictures in this damned forum software grrr

Personally I would take the GF3 figure any day and I've never loved any Daz figures out of the box, but the Pauline one look odds the eyes seem to be a bit off I'm not sure why and the lips need a peak, the skin looks awful grainy and bumpy.

@tparo: as I said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder :)

@3doutlaw: The fitting room already does a good job of converting clothes, but it wouldn't hurt with improvements in that area ;)

Yep, agreed, I've seen "fitting room" demos, and I am sure it does a good job, if you invest the time...but once you get used to clones, auto-fit and the collision/smoothing modifier running, just watching the "Poser Pro 2014's new Fitting Room" demo's on YouTube is painful.

Anyway, I hope the new version is revolutionary! It will push both SM and Daz to new heights, if so.

I always wonder why why they don't start with targeting a computer-based calculated Attractive face based on common characteristics, and go from there. Would make a nice base figure, and give vendors a easy starting point. Beautiful Face by Characteristics

Pauline's eyes look sleepy ;)

Still waiting on bend previews. I don't care about the face really. I want to see how the character is rigged and how it reacts to posing.

"Strictly speaking" Pauline is competing against all figures and there morphs, not just V7. Also as G3 is an entirely free resource including the supporting app, a direct comparison between the two would not really be realistic/fair. The buy-in price will be considerably higher for Pauline (Base or otherwise) if the usual SM figure sales points are implemented for her release putting her more as a direct competitor to V7. You could also describe the G3 Base as the lite version of the figure and V7 with full morph suite the full version of the figure. Really V7 was the flag bearer and was the first thing most people seen of G3.

You could also say that it's like buying a games console while the base console is important and lays a foundation, the content is ultimately what persuades an investment to be made by the consumer. And when you release or preview your bright shiny new machine to the market sharks, you better have some awesome content ready to get jaws dropping. It's always harder to sell something based on promises of what is coming soon for it. We seem to be being "Told" she will be beautiful when she is morphed and properly textured. I prefer to be shown, as telling generally adds up to just being marketing spin in a lot of cases.

For a base figure you want nondescript or plain, ugly or weird looking is always going to be harder to morph to beautiful. The base is the gene pool for the figure while radical morphs are possible generally the base is still there to a degree. In the side by side you have added I really wouldn't know where to start critiquing the Pauline portrait as my eye is immediately drawn to a number of er... anomalies.

Still waiting on previews of Bends, Mesh, Rigging, Compatibility also.

Yeah, but I wasn't terribly impressed with G3F at first glance, either. JPayne has gotten some beautiful results out of her, but I'm still waiting to be impressed by most of what I see done with her. G2F right out of the box looks pretty good, but not G3F -- I don't know this for certain (it's one of those things I meant to look into and never got around to doing), but I've wondered if G2F and G3F were created by two different artists or sets of artists, they're so different-looking from each other. I do have to admit, tho', that I think pretty much all of the Poser people to date are ghastly-looking things -- clunky knees, elbows, and shoulders, and I can't look them in the face for very long. If this IS a new Poser person, it's definitely an improvement. Give her to someone like Blackhearted and see what he can do with her.

The figure bases were created by the same person. Also do not confuse a figure base to a character. G2F & G3F are figure base platforms, generic, no special features ie blank canvas, no name. V7 or V6 are characters built on those bases, and characters are developed by different artists. The question is, what is Pauline? Is she a generic figure base platform or a character?

Zev0 posted at 3:32PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4236978

Also do not confuse a figure base to a character. G2F & G3F are figure base platforms, generic, no special features ie blank canvas, no name. V7 or V6 are characters built on those bases, and characters are developed by different artists. The question is, what is Pauline? Is she a generic figure base platform or a character?

Not to take away from your point which is entirely correct,

But to be honest the "Base & Character" concept always confused me a little, not that I don't understand the reference but well really just the terminology of it seems to have issues, making defining what either is clearly as difficult.

It reminds me of the question, if you have a boat and each year you replace parts of it until eventually none of the original boat exists. Do you have a new boat or is it still the same boat you started with?

In the same way how much of a "Base" figure needs to change to be considered as something different (or a base.2 if you like), if I build a new mesh shape as a morph, adjust and modify the rigging, build new JCM's, new UV's, textures, etc, etc. How much needs to change to make it a new base or an extension of the base as opposed to a character? Especially if the intention is to provide a new platform for people to begin building, from, or on top off. Or is it always a character if some of the original base figure exists in its genes?

Or maybe it's consistent to the character being reliant on the base, as V7 needs G3F (The Base) to function. A descendent "character" would be able to make use of the original "base" morphs to alter the character with the ancestor genes of the figure. But then if I build a character that needs both G3 and V7. Using V7 as part of the base by using V7 UV's etc. Which makes this new character not only reliant on G3F but also V7. How does that leave V7 as just another character and not also as part of the base figure in itself (At least in reference to the new character that needs both). Are things like body and head morph packs characters or extensions of the base? Considering that is V7 a character or also an extension of the G3F base, if people build from V7 to create descendents from her?

Or is the terminology "Base figure" just referring to the bare bones figure released. Which if that's the case means Pauline whether dial spun from base morphs included, the static mesh or a unique character morph, as long as it's all released together still a figure base?

Maybe I'm just rambling :D, Sometimes I think I'm just smart enough to thoroughly confuse myself

Zev0 posted at 9:48PM Wed, 04 November 2015 - #4236978

The figure bases were created by the same person. Also do not confuse a figure base to a character. G2F & G3F are figure base platforms, generic, no special features ie blank canvas, no name. V7 or V6 are characters built on those bases, and characters are developed by different artists. The question is, what is Pauline? Is she a generic figure base platform or a character?

So who's confusing base figures? I -- and I assume most people reading this thread -- already KNOW that G2F and G3F are base figures, and after reading the thread over at RDNA, it looks like Paulette is a base figure, too. I simply said that G2F and G3F look different enough that they could have been developed by different artists or different teams of artists. G2F is much more realistic-looking right out of the box (so to speak), while G3F looks even blander and less appealing than the original Genesis did. At first glance, the only visual improvement she had (aside from a couple of extra joints in the upper chest and neck) was that her throat and the top of her feet are a little more natural-looking. I know JPayne is not using a stock G3F for his artwork, but worked-up copy of V7, and he's getting 'way better results out of her than just about anyone else I see using her. I see a lot of renders of V7 where her skin look less like actual human skin (certainly less V6's skin did) and more like a slightly-deflated ballon or mylar bag, with an odd crinkly look to it.

I'm not a big fan of the previous Poser people, and while I'm not exactly blown away by the couple of images I've seen of Paulette, I've also seen worse (much, much worse) and it would nice to have Poser figure I could really get behind.

When creating a Pose from scratch the differences between G2 and G3 are quite large in their realism and ability to bend accurately.

while G3F looks even blander and less appealing than the original Genesis did.

Really ?

I think it's safe to say at this point Pauline won't be worse than previous Poser figures... and definitely better than Posette...

Razor42 posted at 8:14AM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4236991 "and definitely better than Posette..."

You've done it now! the posette crowd will not like that. LOL

She'll fail unless they give her a DAZ3D level of support, and by that I mean hire a pile of the top vendors to make a ton of content for her, buy it off them and release it over the first couple of months of the figures launch, if it sells well then that will give them and the vendors all the encouragement the need to carry on supporting her.

Lol Daz3D level of support is a huge operation that I do not think SM is capable of doing. Daz spent years getting that structure in place. SM have never given developers the confidence to support their figures. If they were we would have seen evidence of this already in the past. The only encouragement vendors need is revenue. If a figure can keep bringing it in, they will continue to support it. Dawn couldn't do that, hense the rapid drop in support. Honestly I don't see how Pauline or Paul will interest developers who are already on the Genesis train. Most likely, support for her will come from non Daz vendors or those who are anti Genesis.

At best, she will have the same level of support as Dawn, but I honestly just don't see her on the commercial stage taking on the G series. In order for that to happen, every single Poser user must have the latest version of Poser as a requirement for starters, and chances of that happening are slim. Until that happens, the amount of users who will have her will be a tiny fraction of the user base, and nobody wants to support a figure that only caters to a fraction of the market, because they will only be getting a fraction of revenue compared to the bigger commercial platforms. So unless every Poser user can use these new figures the same way every Daz user can use Genesis, the growth regarding the new figures will be extremely slow, and won't really stand a chance in gaining traction at the rate of the grey blob:)

_ I simply said that G2F and G3F look different enough that they could have been developed by different artists_

Again I disagree. G3 with G2 clone (which it comes with) matches G2 identically in appearance. G3 base shape is just a cleaner slate to develop on. And all of these created by the same person. That's the beauty of the platform. Choice.....So does G2 look different to G3? Yes, but not to the extreme to say its from a different artist. With one dial I can make it exactly the same:)

And here is a line up of all 3 base female shapes. G1 on left G2 middle G3 right. G3 blander than G1? Ummmm no.

Zev0 posted at 4:45AM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237011

So does G2 look different to G3? Yes, but not to the extreme to say its from a different artist.

I never said that it WAS from a different artist -- I said it looked like it COULD be from a different artist, which was definitely my impression when I first loaded her up in DS. Two very different statements. You may not like me, dude, but don't twist my words.

I don't think it's personal Morpheon. Just two artists disagreeing about which brush fibers are best :)

But I would have to say I'm with Zev0 on this one, G3F base looks like an evolution of the base mesh from G2F not something totally different IMO. You did make a few rather large calls, and of course they are your opinion and you're entitled to them. But I wouldn't expect others not to disagree.

Morpheon posted at 4:05PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237020

Zev0 posted at 4:45AM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237011

So does G2 look different to G3? Yes, but not to the extreme to say its from a different artist.

I never said that it WAS from a different artist -- I said it looked like it COULD be from a different artist, which was definitely my impression when I first loaded her up in DS. Two very different statements. You may not like me, dude, but don't twist my words.

Lol dude I have no reason to dislike anybody, unless they are a real jackass:) So far, I have not classified you as one so we are all good:) We are just having a debate that's all:)

Okay guys and girls be friendly It is bad enough in the Daz forum to be beating up on poor Pauline don't start up on each other please. Keep it sweet.

Oh there are new pics of Paulines feet if anybody is interested.

Razor42 posted at 5:20AM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237022

I don't think it's personal Morpheon. Just two artists disagreeing about which brush fibers are best :)

But I would have to say I'm with Zev0 on this one, G3F base looks like an evolution of the base mesh from G2F not something totally different IMO. You did make a few rather large calls, and of course they are your opinion and you're entitled to them. But I wouldn't expect others not to disagree.

Blandness and appeal are subjective qualities that mean different things to different people, and the fact is that I'm less impressed by my first impressions of G3F than I was with my first impressions of the original Genesis. That may have a lot to do with the fact that G3F appears as more of an incremental change over previous Genesis figures than the original Genesis was over V4, and other than what artists like JPayne and Balassa are doing with G3F, I'm still waiting to be blown away by her. And Zev0, yourself, and others are more than welcome to disagree with my opinions.

On the surface G3 doesn't look like a major shift. All you see is a shape. It is what she has under the hood that makes the difference. The minute she starts to bend you see the differences. Only time you can really appreciate the change is by loading all Genesis figures side by side and doing a direct comparison, testing poses, expressions, limitations etc...

tparo posted at 12:07PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4236885

the skin looks awful grainy and bumpy.

That's rendered in Cycles, a progressive refinement rendering engine. If allowed a full run, it wouldn't have that grainy/bumpy effect.

Black__Days posted at 6:13PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237052

tparo posted at 12:07PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4236885

the skin looks awful grainy and bumpy.

That's rendered in Cycles, a progressive refinement rendering engine. If allowed a full run, it wouldn't have that grainy/bumpy effect.

Cycles is not an adaptive render engine like Iray, you have to decide before the fact how many samples you want to compute. In Blender there is the possibility of doing several, statistically indipendent, renders which can then be combined to provide more refinement, without starting from scratch (I don't know whether SM has added this functionality to P11). Another reason for the graininess is likely not-so-big/not-so-good texture maps.

The beta testers are doing a sterling job in providing the least possible appealing renders of Pauline; I have no doubt that if it was in the hands of erogenesis (who has post really beautiful just-Firefly renders over RDNA), the results would be much better.

O.K., I'm home from work now, and I've had a chance to look this thread over again.

Zev0 and Razor, I owe you both an apology. Zev0, I took your earlier post to infer that I made a declarative statement about a different artist making G3F -- that I had made a statement to the effect that "this is a fact" -- and it's obvious that I misread the intent of that comment. And Razor, for me getting on a high horse about it.

Let me just say in my defense, it was very early, I had just woken up and was still on auto-pilot, I was caffeine-deprived, and was trying to squeeze in some computer time as I was getting ready to go to work, so I was not as attentive as I ought to have been, and not as civil as I usually try to be, and again, I do apologize. I am not a morning person (I usually prefer to stay up 'til 2 or 3 A.M. and then get up around the crack of noon), and early mornings are not a good time for me to be trying to have a conversation with anyone about anything.

chaecuna posted at 8:20PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237053

The beta testers are doing a sterling job in providing the least possible appealing renders of Pauline; I have no doubt that if it was in the hands of erogenesis (who has post really beautiful just-Firefly renders over RDNA), the results would be much better.

Did... Did you just insult everybody that has let people see their beta renders of Pauline at the same time?

So, looking at the easy morphability of her face, Pauline seems pretty neat. We still need to see some test renders of her arms, hands, torso and legs before any real judgements can be made.

That said, what is up with her heels being so flat? It looks like they were actually trimmed down with a planing tool.

Morpheon posted at 4:20AM Fri, 06 November 2015 - #4237133

O.K., I'm home from work now, and I've had a chance to look this thread over again.

Zev0 and Razor, I owe you both an apology. Zev0, I took your earlier post to infer that I made a declarative statement about a different artist making G3F -- that I had made a statement to the effect that "this is a fact" -- and it's obvious that I misread the intent of that comment. And Razor, for me getting on a high horse about it.

Let me just say in my defense, it was very early, I had just woken up and was still on auto-pilot, I was caffeine-deprived, and was trying to squeeze in some computer time as I was getting ready to go to work, so I was not as attentive as I ought to have been, and not as civil as I usually try to be, and again, I do apologize. I am not a morning person (I usually prefer to stay up 'til 2 or 3 A.M. and then get up around the crack of noon), and early mornings are not a good time for me to be trying to have a conversation with anyone about anything.

No need to apologize dude. It's all good.

Black__Days posted at 4:21AM Fri, 06 November 2015 - #4237134

chaecuna posted at 8:20PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237053

The beta testers are doing a sterling job in providing the least possible appealing renders of Pauline; I have no doubt that if it was in the hands of erogenesis (who has post really beautiful just-Firefly renders over RDNA), the results would be much better.

Did... Did you just insult everybody that has let people see their beta renders of Pauline at the same time?

Lol what's wrong with that? Those beta renders are not the best. I said the same thing, only difference is I got banned from RDNA for doing so lol. You wouldn't see Daz letting beta testers post renders of their new figures before it's launched without approval from their art department. Every render has to be approved. They would handle that with care making sure it was killer before it went live. That is the difference. Previewing a new figure isn't a mickey mouse job. First impressions last, and those renders of Pauline do not make me go wow. Maybe in the hands of a good render artist my reaction will be different:) But so far, the marketing has been handled pretty amateurish.

Morpheon posted at 1:37PM Fri, 06 November 2015 - #4237133

O.K., I'm home from work now, and I've had a chance to look this thread over again.

Zev0 and Razor, I owe you both an apology. Zev0, I took your earlier post to infer that I made a declarative statement about a different artist making G3F -- that I had made a statement to the effect that "this is a fact" -- and it's obvious that I misread the intent of that comment. And Razor, for me getting on a high horse about it.

Let me just say in my defense, it was very early, I had just woken up and was still on auto-pilot, I was caffeine-deprived, and was trying to squeeze in some computer time as I was getting ready to go to work, so I was not as attentive as I ought to have been, and not as civil as I usually try to be, and again, I do apologize. I am not a morning person (I usually prefer to stay up 'til 2 or 3 A.M. and then get up around the crack of noon), and early mornings are not a good time for me to be trying to have a conversation with anyone about anything.

No worries man, it's all good. I think thick skins comes with the territory :) And no need for an apology.

Black__Days posted at 1:38PM Fri, 06 November 2015 - #4237134

chaecuna posted at 8:20PM Thu, 05 November 2015 - #4237053

The beta testers are doing a sterling job in providing the least possible appealing renders of Pauline; I have no doubt that if it was in the hands of erogenesis (who has post really beautiful just-Firefly renders over RDNA), the results would be much better.

Did... Did you just insult everybody that has let people see their beta renders of Pauline at the same time?

Have to say I agree with chaecuna and Z. SM needs to seriously look at how they market these things if they plan to ever be competitive again in this market space.

At least here in this forum, people can express their viewpoints of Pauline without fear of being banished like a dissenter or bullied by the usual Poserphile crowd.

When you silence any criticism and just encourage blind "Wow, she is great!" or a policy of "if you can't say something nice, don't say..." you generally end up straying away from what the majority of consumers want in a product. Making a purchasing decision is very rarely based on well "I just want to be nice, so take my money." It's kind of like saying if the only opinion that matters is my mother's and she thinks everything I do is "Awesome!" how dare you say my Art installation of platonic solids formed from my own ear wax is going to be a tough sell.

There is a triangle involved here it's generally formed by Creative, Critic and Consumer. You don't necessarily need a critic to be creative but often the gap between Creative and Consumer is better bridged when put through a critic conduit. If in development you insulate yourself from any form of criticism you may find yourself with a finished product that the development team loves but consumers find flat or misdirected. Sure not all criticism is constructive, but ignoring all of it is a massive risk. Marketing 101 says that when introducing a new product, presentation is everything. Imagine a prototype ferrari image with a massive oil spill under it and a wheel missing. (Do you think it would increase sales or hurt when the model is released?)

The strawpoll indicate that out of almost 50 potential customers nearly %80, so far find Pauline 1. Rather ugly, and unattractive or 2. Not ideal feminine, in fact kind of manly. If I was a developer even an unofficial focus group like such would have me a little worried. But somehow all I hear in the official thread is positive feedback some of it even about things that haven't actually been shown in any preview. Considering the "neat" "Morphability of her face" the characters I have seen so far for Pauline look remarkably similar to each other. As I have said previously good marketing is not telling me it's great, it's showing it's great.

Agreed and well said. And the Poll results are a direct impact of what people were shown, which is proof that what you show, regardless of preview, beta or whatever stage, still holds weight in peoples perspective and opinion on something. If they were shown better images, I bet the vote results would have been different. So yeah, make damn sure you put your best foot forward when doing figure marketing. It is no different when selling a product when doing promos. Those promos determine that products sales volume. Amazing promos boost sales, poor promos lead to average sales. Face value is very important.

I am impressed well done all. And I mean it! It is not easy to rip thru Daz and SM at the same time and keep it all cheery as possible. Pro's and Con's are fine Razor after all a one winged bird can only fly in circles, it would be a bit dull after a while. As long as all members can express their opinion freely (Within the guidelines of course) and be respected then all is well IMO

I am inclined to agree with the statement the renders for this character should be tightly controlled as Daz would do. Or you would think any company 3D or not would do it is not rocket science. If we are making the comments and we know they can be improved then the general public or people considering getting into 3D might be swayed a certain way as they don't have a full understanding of how far these characters can be altered. First impression do count or we wouldn't be having the convo..... it's a mystery.

The bad thing about the trend, is that I feel the people monitoring the thread at that other site are directly involved with the development of Pauline. So rather than considering feedback in a reasonable manner. They are protecting their baby so to speak. Any criticism about the figure becomes that much more personal and they act personally to protect themselves and their baby. There is a bit of a disinformation meme going about that says 'people saying bad things are what makes these things fail'. In my experience the market is not so easily swayed by individual opinions and are generally smart enough to make their own assessment of the viability of a product. To stifle any criticism is basically restricting Pauline to a user group project rather than a competitive professional figure offering. Also on a more general note I haven't seen any real effort by SM to solve some of the big issues like version fragmentation of its user base, which may become one of the major issues facing Paulines adoption rate.

Okay and in order of fairness the same has been said of the Daz forum by loyal Daz users that a fair bit of cut and shut has been going on too. How they handle their forums is none of my business I am however responsible for this one and while there has certainly been a few cliff hangers with members hanging by the fingernails over the past days in the Daz arena all seem to correct themselves and that can only be a good thing. With the posts here on this Daz forum there are plenty with the view from both sides like the 4.9 thread for example. My job is to stop you killing or belittling each other not force opinion one way or the other as that would be unhelpful. One thing to be mindful of is this does not become a product bashing exercise and just in its nature it is tipping that way. That is against the TOS guidelines. Smith Micro are our friends here and should be extended the same rights as members get. If the same issues are present on RDNA then then me sitting here waiting for some heads to come in her defense might be a bit of a stretch and wishful thinking. I keep an open mind with Pauline since I didn't think that much of the character Dawn actually no opinion either way but I had her long time and not a ray has past her so the jury was out with the 'One day'. I simply don't get a lot of time to do these things I wish I did. About 4 days ago I was looking in the gallery and must have went to the gallery homepage the "What's New" and there on the wall stuck out a magic render I opened it up and it was Dawn I thought no way can't be. Just shows what can be done as that one render changed my mind. I think we have the issue here where there is some very ordinary renders of a character and we all know what the alternatives that are already in use can do. So it is a little lop sided. It would be nice to have a couple of promo renders in full glory before we all get too carried away. I am not so sure poaching them from another site is the go either I will see if I can dig something up via a more legit method like asking them.

Fair Points Johnny.

I'm pretty sure it's not considered poaching of images in this context. I believe Fair Use would come into play here as the images are being referenced for commentary and critique. But of course we would be happy to look at anything you could obtain through more "Legitimate" means. Be careful how you ask though, I wouldn't infer there is anything wrong with the ones already circulating.

I am not that fussed about the images that are here we have to have something to look at I just don't feel it is doing her justice I am inclined to agree with chaecuna's statement over this to the letter. I think the beta testers could have done more. A little bit of presentation goes a long way and these are like boardroom pre finalized draft designs. I reckon there would be hundreds of Poser orientated members here that could have put her in a scene with the wow factor that would have blown our socks off. It is more of a shame than anything if you ask me. I will chase it up or my OCD will kick in...... and we don't want that