Quote - I agree. I'm not very good at lining up figures for the clones as there tends to be space issues when testing. I'm not giving up though.

My biggest concern as a DS Dawn user is that can this stuff work in DS. I see lots of amazing/beautiful products for Dawn that's outside of HW3D, but I'm afraid to buy it since some of them listed the product req. as Poser only.

DS Dawn and Poser Dawn have the same mesh and same shape, but their joints and weight mapping are a little different.  So, clothing for the two need to be set up for each app.  There are tutorials for how to do this, if you're of a mind to do so.  A lot of merchants are making both versions of their clothing products, but not all.  Some merchants are releasing for the version they're most comfortable with while releasing later a version in the app they're not as comfortable with after they learn the ropes or find a partner willing to convert it for them for a percentage.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Now, in English please. I need layman's terms ;). Are ya saying no clones and no V4 clothing fits derived from a clone unless ya make it yourself? If that's the case, urgh.... Laurie

 That was how I read it and what I was recently told by a DAZ staff member in a pm when I asked.

It means that you can make a clone for your own use but you wouldn't be able to distribute it. At least that's how I'm interpreting it.

DAZ seems to be deleting any posts that say this in their forums.  Not sure if they just don't want to cop to it, or if they are considering changing their minds.

Maybe they'd be okay with it if they're the ones who get to distribute it (or sell it?)

I think Dawn's going to need an autofit clone to get any kind of traction with DS users.

I dunno.  I haven't found autofit that useful, because I mainly like clothes that have long flowy skirts and sleeves or loin flaps over tunics, etc.  I think only a handful of DS users find autofit especially useful.  I could be wrong.  I just don't think autofit will factor in much to Dawn's success.  

Thanks for the link to the Xurge site.  Those are great renders.

What is the url to Xurge's site?  I've never been there before.

She rocks in DS too.  Win win.

133 pages is nothing to sneeze at.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I dont know enough about DS to say for sure, but I cant see how the textures would need to made differently.  Especially for something simple like cloth.  recreating the shaders is one thing, but I would expect the lions share of colour, bump, displacement and specular maps would be the same.  Perhaps DS may require you to bake in certain things if its shader system cant replicate the same effects as poser or vice versa... I would hope that would be the exception rather than the rule though...

like I said though, I dont know that much about DS yet

One word....satin ;). In Poser can be made entirely with a shader and I'm nearly certain it won't go over to DS. Of course, I know nothing about DS but with two speculars and two reflects and a host of noodles in between it probably won't ;). Not saying that DS can't do satin...very likely can, I'm just pretty certain it doesn't do it like Poser does. LOL.

Laurie

 

I was afraid to mention this because I didn't want folks to get the wrong impression, or to unintentionally start an app war.

But yes, the shaders and the appearance of shaders between apps are quite different, and there are many effects that can be done in Poser that don't quite have the same effect in DS. Most notable IMO are "ooooh shiny's" and rich velvety fabrics that really seem to "pop" and come alive in Poser but which look more subdued in DS. And I will admit this might be personal preference ...  

Either way, this is an area that I think there will need to be some collaborative effort ... perhaps having someone(s) familiar with BOTH shader systems to offer some good tutorials and advice that explains "this node in Poser is this brick in DS ... this node in Poser doesn't have an equivalent in DS, but if you combine this brick and this brick it gets close".  That kind of thing.  This would help folks on both sides. 

That would be really nice, to have some tutorials out there which gave clues on how to get similar results in both apps.

DS base materials (without any special shaders applied) are pretty drab.  However, many shaders have been made, many of which are free, which greatly enhance materials in DS.  I think the difference in quality is only due to the difference in understanding on how to get the most out of each app.  My textures that I make and set up the materials for consistently look a little better in DS than they do in Poser.  Is it because DS materials are better?  No!  It's because I understand DS materials better.  I try really hard in Poser and sometimes I luck out and they turn out about equal in quality, but most of the time, my DS materials look just a little better.  I think each app has its strengths in the materials department.  I really don't see one as being superior to the other, just different.  I know how to get very vibrant velvet results in DS.  I struggle to do the same in Poser.  It's all a matter of which app works the best with the way our individual brains work.  I don't agree with bashing either program or the people who prefer them. 

Quote - > Quote - There's been a lot of hyperspecific feedback regarding the base model for Dawn. That's good for Dawn, even when it's misread as being negative. It's just as important to create a base that has majority appeal as it is for content creators to hear about possible minorities to target with support.

Think of it this way for a moment. Pretend that prior to the creation of Dawn, Hivewire took a poll and asked two questions.

1. What do you want most in a new figure?
2. What do you like least in the current figures?

Now imagine that of the 5000 users that responded, over 50% said they wanted fuller arms and over 50% said they wanted less length in the legs. Also imagine 5% said they wanted the model defaulted to a classic military attention pose and 5% wanted earlobes that attach to the cheek.

First, like most polls, this one would barely represent the PS/DS community that most likely numbers upwards of 100,000 users and possibly, dare I say it, 1.000,000 users. Second, if Hivewire had conducted such a poll, they would have had to focus on satisfying a majority to ensure maximum profit for their business venture. As the primary and initial supporter of Dawn, they have to get the market saturated with her. That's the only way secondary and followup supporters of Dawn can find those niches and exploit them.

Dawn is as much an economic endeavor as she is an artistic one. What is or isn't in the base and expansions that Hivewire has working are most likely focused on attracting a majority. I would ask that in the spirit of cooperation and community spirit, that we avoid voicing opinions that suggest Dawn will fail if she is not all things to all people. Instead, can we make impassioned pleas to the community as a whole, to create, expand, and evolve Dawn, both to Hivewire and to the many talented third pary artists. Some of them may surprise us by providing content we expect from someone else. By doing so, they may inspire us all to be better artists and better human beings.

How we speak is as important as what we say. To paraphrase an old saying, "If you can't say something nice, still say it nicely."

Very well said...

Dittoing the very well said remark.

shiny*  I always mispell that even though I know better.  >_>

Quote - Call me pure.

Call me realistic.

Call me whatever you want, but I never understood why we need specular maps on the skin of a figure.

Skin and light "diffuse and/or shine" depends on the skin and the position of the light.

Skin is skin.
Be it on the arms, or on the belly or on the legs.

And Light is light.

Bump, displacement and normal maps OK.

Specular maps on the skin of a figure however????

I don't agree.  Some parts of skin are more oily and thus more shiney than other parts of skin.  Some parts of skin have larger, more stretched cell grains, like the top of the forearm as opposed to the under side of the forearm, etc.  Top fo the forearm tends to be more shiny as a result of having more flat, reflective surface area.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I sometimes wonder what it would be like if humans had that pattern. Imagine a world where Kate Upton can't get anyone to look at her, while males of all ages flock around Hillary Clinton.

 

I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

She was cute back in the Day...

Wow, I never knew she was that good looking.  I'd heard she was, but never seen proof. 

I use DS for my own personal projects and image making.

I like hair that allows room for elven or pixie ears without weird poke through that has to be photoshopped after, whether pulled back styles or just tucked behind the ears.  I also like those hairstyles shown above.  I'd buy both kinds.

Quote - Final Dawn files have been delivered.

Content creators be at the ready!

 

Woot!

Now, back to work texturing flowers, which have nothing to do with Dawn.  >_>

....cept maybe Dawn can enjoy the flowers in a scene some time.

Happy 4th of July to those celebrating and I hope everyone has a good day.