This can now be confirmed as a true fact as we managed to get 5 of the Poser girls together to compare, the original Poser girl declined to be included as she is now getting on in years.

The experts now predict that the 7th generation of Poser girls will have light skin and be about equivalent to 8 feet tall in the Real World - as opposed to the Poser world where things like that don't count.

Seriously has anyone looked at the scaling of the standard Poser figures and related them to the real world, I know Vic 3 is reported to be about 6 ft.

Just a quick note on body shape as well - Posette 3 to me looks to have the best looking body (out of the box), 4 seems a bit flat, Judy looks as though she is somewhere in her first trimester, Jessi - well she could do a health warning promotion about anorexia and the Poser 2 girl doesn't stack up too bad apart from the head.

Eww...that's what default Judy looks like? Ugh, that's gonna be in my nightmares tonight...

On a side note. Spheres used for Joints are locked to incremental movements that are too large for Poser figures(translating the eyes shows this best). The larger the figure, the finer you can get matsphere scale and placement. Right now doing fine joints for the hands is barely possible using spheres. From a figure creation standpoint, Figures really need to be about 3 times larger than they are now for easy joint setup.

Eww...that's what default Judy looks like? Ugh, that's gonna be in my nightmares tonight... Actually, I think she is the most natural looking Poser girl. I'm not saying she is beautiful or even cute but she looks more real IMO. It's not 90% of RL women that have waistlines like the other Poser girls or slim arms and legs, etc. France

Funny thing is according to the DGS Posette and the P3 Gal are the same height - but it doesn't look that way in my image and I'm sure it's not the angle that's doing it - can someone else compare the two? "It's not 90% of RL women that have waistlines like the other Poser girls or slim arms and legs, etc." France, Agreed on that point - however "out of the box" she is just a little too rounded in the belly area - she needs a bit of tweaking to get her looking proportioned.

I think the default P5 woman has absolutly the best body but I acan't do a thing withit, any scalling or deformation and it falls apart... and why on earth does it have that hedious head? The P5 Face Room head is absolutly perfect. I find myself strangly facinated by the P2 body... it poses so well, the groing and buttocks don't tear all the time like other figures (the hip is wid and flat in the groin. #Dream once did a grate remap and texture for P2 he gave me and I did all these expression morphs and even made teeth for it... but taking the Woman Head from Aditional figures and parenting it to the P2 neck might be interesting... I once mapped P2 to the P4 texture format but I think I lost that figure. mainly with P2 the rib cage is chunky and the hands totally yucky. I still have never gotten a good answer for how/why Poser 3 nude woman and Poser 4 Nude woman are different beyond the texture... can anyone tell me? The heads are the same right? The mesh density looks different in Geep's illustration. I am sadley dissapointed by the P6 content... James is beautiful out of the box but without serious morphing... Jessie is a total desater... one reason I upgraded was I thought the content package would be as fabulous as P5.

"Jessie is a total desater" WHY????????

Thanks, geep. Seems like the only difference is a little mesh on the thighs... I'll have to check why the .cr2 is 700k lighter. "Jessie is a total desater" I am sorry for my writing, I am self taught to read and write English and also I have motor impairment. I used to write in a program with spellcheck and then cut-and-paste to the forum but I have gotten lazy about that. As for what I mean about Jessie being a disaster Judy had the best and most realistic body in Poser I felt but was very difficult to modify the body, it fell apart under magnets etc. The Judy face was hideous, I cant imagine who created it or why, but the default Face Room face was wonderful no matter what you did with it. It was hard to make something that didnt look great in Face Room. And Don also had a terrific rugged appearance. Now one reason I upgrade to P6 was the thousands of new models it features ;) of course I didnt believe that, but I did think the P6 figures would be a step up from P5 "new hieghts in realism" etc. etc. James is quite handsome but it is difficult to get rid of that chiselled jaw line without magnets I preferred the P5 Face Room head. The ecto, mezo, etc. morphs on the figures are nice but the Jessie figure is utterly Toon. When I first rendered it I half thought it was Mayadoll. No person could imagine this was human anatomy. The default Jessie face is pleasing but I cant seem to nudge a thing in Face Room without the head becoming a hideous characature. The morphs available pale compared to the superb P5 morphs as well. I did not appreciate that Poser 6 essentially released in conjunction with, and dependent on, a morph kit sold separately by the very people who I do believe created the figure for CL its like paying extra for the Revealed book which turns out to be a features enumerating manual by a technical writer rather than an actual instructional by a Poser user of some sort... it looks like it was "translated" directly from the Reference Manual, it is a usefull book for novices but it is not helping me to "master concepts on both a technical and artistic level" at an "intermediate" level. Anyway, CL cant seem to realize more people want a neutral default figure than a character who it is very difficult to individualize. A relatively low mesh but smooth and neutral figure such as Narcissis NEA is the way to go I think although Judy had just wonderful body sculpting and the Millennium figure have great range in the body morphs. For people who defend the Toon quality of Jessies body, the promotional materials lead me to believe that Jessie was represented as a realistic figure and that Laroo was the Toon element of the P6 content. This is my perspective. I am one of the few I guess who still uses Poser to attempt to create realistic figures as the basis for traditional art. I taught for many years, painting, drawing, anatomy, and digital 2D. I try to create settings and figure for traditional art and I try to do this by making realistic as opposed to idealized figures. But de gustibus non disputatum or however that goes

"The ecto, mezo, etc. morphs on the figures are nice but the Jessie figure is utterly Toon" Please, please, I try to stop laughing ... :D Well, your honour, let me show my opinion http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=924771 looks like a Toon? http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=936411 looks like a Toon? http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=937237 looks like a Toon? Now, momodot, as I think youre an artist with a huge imagination, watch these three images and put in your mind Judy or Posette instead of Jessi. Fcors, we cant talk about realism ... Jessy is a disaster? Well, Posette looks nice if you try with her a good texture as SnowSultans Vickybuster or btsculptors Shelly ... but then she isnt Posette out-of-the-box. With 3D Dreams Eternal Judy, she dont looks like the ugly sister of Mr. Hyde ... but then she isnt Judy out-the-box. Jessi is the first default character that you can render out-of-the-box with 100% results and without any morph. Jessi works without add-ons (with add-ons would be wonderful) And "No person could imagine this was human anatomy" ... sorry, human anatomy of who? Catherine Zeta-Jones? Winona Ryder? Lucy Lawless? Ren Zellweger? Therere as sizes as women ... and Jessi isnt "THE" woman but "A" woman. You can say that you dont like her, but ... hideous? a disaster? Mmmhhh ... WHOOAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA :D

Casette, you are masterful with Jesse, there's no doubt of that from the first time I saw your work. The first two renders have no-- or little toon qualities in them. The closeup has a bit of over-emotion that might be but not much. The egyptian pic has toon qualities -- it's the boobs. Very Mayadoll, high, unbelievable perfect for a toon. Beautiful stylised render though. I do not mean in anyway to denigrate your work, casette, I just can see momodot's point, to a degree. Emily

First off, Casette, no beeef with you, those are wonderful renders... and in fact I was expecting I would have to withdraw my criticism entirely once I saw the images given who you are. They really are beautiful. BUT http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=924771 Jessie does actually look good from the back... this has always been evident. The shoulder/shoulder blade work is lovely although hardly realistic unless you look at body builders. The hips are a bit vavavavoom and the buttocks are kinda P4 but I would never complain about any of that. The ears are pretty strange and I have had trouble doing anything to help them or even change them significantly... they seem modeled from an anatomy drawing rather than a human... perhaps this is also the case with the lovely but exaggerated upper back musculature. Those ears though, huge round helix like a chimpanzee and they swoop down and under the concha like they are handles, no scapha there so the big sharp and too high anti-helix gives what used to be called a cauliflower ear, esp. with the anti-helix flattening out into the fossa. Why is the anti-tragus caved into the concha? Why is the lobule concave and articulated with bits of mysterious cartilage? And the tipped out tragus makes it look like they are deployed for take off. Any elementary drawing manual would have attended to these matters. P4 had great ears except for no ear canal in the inter-tragic notch... but you could morph the hell out of them. http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=936411 Off the rack, the one face that real does look good on her. The skin texture??? very odd pore structure on forehead but we are not talking textures. Strange edge on eyebrows, most people dont have any sort of sharp edged skin or bone ridge underneath their eyebrow hairs. Flipped down lower lip (chip or sex pot?) and low nose tough to work with. Bump at bottom of chin odd (a reverse chin cleft?). Teeth odd, rectangular flat edge-bevelled teeth set straight across, have never seen that and I used to cast inside peoples mouths when I did hyper-real human figure creation for Museum dioramas. Could cut your self on that septum. The finger joints are a mess. Those knuckles are far scarier than the pose -arthritis? http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=937237 Utterly gorgeous Render. Toon? Yes of course. Implants, yes (silicone not saline), weird P4 deltoid, yes (I have seen pronounced deltoids in RW but never rectilinear). God! Those hands again spooky. Clavicles are the freakiest yet maybe she is nude because her collarbones sheared right through her gown. Definition under the rib cage but no evidence of ribs in my experience it works the other way. Cleft between the rectus abdominus without the six pack? Yes I have seen that from time to time. Why is her belly over her pubis rather than her hips, have not seen that. She has the only female genitals I would EVER describe as a slit. I have never seen flat (as opposed to chubby) vulva with opening coming high like that. She looks unfortunately accurate for an Egyptian, with the cleft running that high the clitoris would be visible if she had one. She is so toned in the thorax and shoulders but she must exercise sitting down the thighs are flabby and un defined the knees? Maya doll nothing more to say. This is a fusion of Maya doll and P4. Judy was based on a believable woman from the neck down. My background? 4 years as an art student, five years as an art and art history graduate student, nearly twenty years as a drawing and anatomy instructor and seven years as head of a painting and drawing program. I have drawn litteraly hundreds of nude people. I was also in Ballete highschool and undergrad so I have seen some "ideal" examples of the human animal not just gorgious strippers and the rest of the assorted bunch that work as models at art schools. I know these CL/RDNA people are probably engineers not artists most likely, but Judy was such good work and you can buy Jack Hamm Drawing the Head and Figure for $7.95 on Amazon. He understood how to make gorgeous sexy pinups that were plausible as homosapien. Free content, its not a complaint, its just an observation Jessie is a toon figure. This is just in the spirit of serious criticism... I do own P4 and third party figures with which I am happy. Thank you for the renders, Casette, they realy are beautiful.

It is only because of the fine quality of the P5 figures that I thought they could do better... my hapiest would be P5s that held to gether when you deformed them.

Mayadoll is NOT anime!

Mayadoll. Look at her legs... what are they? Blow up dolly? What do we call it if not Anime? I don't know... just "stylized"? I wonder why it was named MayaDOLL? Don't get me wrong, Mayadoll is wonderful, and a great gift to the community, but it is a doll of some sort, a humanoid, not a human... I do not believe an artist that talented was attempting realism and failed, it is a figure based on anime... the P6 team however has left me wondering what they were thinking, I am working with an other writer on a paper and exhibition concerning the absorption of Anime aesthetic in American poplar art... I suspect the P6 team did not realized to what extent their figure was stylized (strangly only the female huh?), I think they were dealing with the disapointment in the community over Judy having a realistic body. Somehow in my years of teaching I found over and over people defeated by drawing what they "knew" when they wanted to draw what they "saw". I wonder if in making these mesh "I certainly don't know how) the artist become so entranced by form the forget to reference it to reality... I saw this time and time again with sculpture students. P4 legs attempted to reflect human anatomy albeit not deftly. Millenium knees? passible though chunky and square... Judy knees and thighs? just beautiful. But how the legs on P6 dip in at the knee rather than below it... hoestly have you seen that on an actual human? Again, this is what artists call "crit" not criticism, not complaint, just a formal analisys. I don't believe anyone OWES me a realistic figure, I am simply describing the figures I see before me. But maybe I should just shut up.

Attached Link: A thread at PoserPros

See the link.

Incidently, the Hamm book mentioned by momodot (who is entirely right, IMHO) is one of my primary references in figure work.

Message edited on: 04/26/2005 20:40

Who's number 3 from left?
Damn scary looking lot...

Although come to think of it 3rd from right could be my fiance...

Message edited on: 04/26/2005 22:54

3 from left the original Steph. Wish I could aford Steph 3.

.

Just for Reference: RDNA did not model or create any of the Poser Figures, and was not involved in the creation of those figures. They did provide content for them, however.

momodot, thanks for the info, its really good :) A lilagree and disagree. Fcors, Jessi isnt totally human. You want to find in her toonish details? You find, sure. But who not? V3 is human? Steph petite? She-Freak? Im a Poser vampire, so I have tasted all of them (well, Laura still not, but as I have seen certain adult morphs my opinion have changed about her usability, I tell you when my VISA revives). If you want to do a pure anatomical study of all the Poser characters all around the world, all that girls would have serious trouble to graduate. Toons? Sure, all of them But ... a disaster? I believe (and its my opinion, fcors yours is absolutely respectable) that Jessi is "as is" the most human and usable of all the poser characters and by default. All the DAZ3Ds you need to apply textures, morphs, magnets to give them a real human look (I would pray for Vicky4 have a default texture pack, but Im sure that the base figure will have the usual plane colours and youll need to buy a V4 Ultimate Texture Pack ... money is money). All the Poser default girls, the same. I dont say that Jessi is perfect. Only that Jessi is the best out-of-box until this moment. And yes, you can see my renders detail by detail (I always draw bigger breast than default ones, sorry, ask Mr. Freud ;) ), and the pores, and the chip ears, and etc. But is Jessi out-of-box, without any more (well, in "Roar" I put a iris texture by France, little change). I opened Judy (and I swear, one of the first times since I have P5) to do some tests in order to answer you. Well, I dont post them here, because my vomits didnt allow to save them. Judy have a forced face as Michael Jacksons one, the proportions are ridiculous, and these lips ... well, if I use a golden texture I would use her as a Tut-Ank-Amon mask, but I cant find in her any more. A real body?. I dont like a character that I only can render on a back view hiding her face ... or with a paper bag in her head. All out this is only visceral feelings of each one. JudyFanClub against JessiFanClub. War. Blood. Death. Blah Fcors, all of this is purely relative, because the artists eye can do human all character (I have seen renders with special point of camera, lighting, etc, where MayaDoll looks human). Jessi have a big head, enormous hands, Cheetah Chimp ears, crater pores and all that nice features ... but she is until the moment the most usable character out-of-box. And sorry, Judy is a pain. I promise you that as penitence Ill try to draw a pic with that Frankesteins Monster Bride ... but Im afraid that when daily Ill have a great idea for a pic and Ill mentally search a character for it, Judy will remain under her tombstone for me And hey, thanks for the six girls pic, I imagine me trying something like this and in my Poser would appear the message "ARE YOU NUTS??? I CAN DIE!!! GO AWAY WITH YOUR HAMSTER AND DONT PRESS OK!!!" :D

Hey Casette, I realy respect you. What you say I take seriously. I'll try harder with Jessie. And you know? The default Judy face is absolutly one of the ugliest things I have ever seen in Poser... I just can't imagine what brought it into being, I have no idea what anyone thought it had to do with a human head. Frustration over how hard Judy is to work with has lead me to work primerly with an adult age VickyPT for the most part or the P5 Face Room head on V2. When I want genitals for V2 I use the P5 genitals only character from wertu at Renderotica attached to hip and blended in with post-work. I do use Eve and now Nea alot. I just bought Posette 5 and V3 (I finally caved in) I don't know what I will settle down with... but PT with scaling and breasts makes the best "real woman" for me... good hip bones, great subdural fat distribution... a bit dificult to get subtle older head base. I sure wish I had SP3 but I don't see that ever happening ($$$). But on the basis of your enthusiasm I won't just toss Jessie away... I'll see if I can get her to work for my purposes.

Yeah! :)

Message edited on: 04/27/2005 12:08

"great subdural fat distribution"? Subcutaneous! ARGHHHHH!

Steph Petite looks so great! Except in the arm pit region. Wow! P4 holds up well! Glam Vicky is nice jork but not my thang personaly. Ingenue Vickie is a little icky? Don't beat me up but Jessie is bizaaro shown like this! This is a great job at a line up! Thanks Mr. Burton!