I've been tinkering with poser more lately, and one thing that I can't get past (yet) is the shoulder anatomy... It's bugging me and I can't seem to fight off the urge to want to coprrect it, or at least improve it some.

You know, the somewhat unnatural look of the shoulder/armpit assembly, where the pectoralis major looks like it's attached to the top of the shoulder, exposing the armpit when the arm is at rest, and similar.

Has anyone found a way to improve on this? I'm interested in hearing about different ways it's being handled?

Thanks and Hugz, Connie :)

I heard there was a guy in Europe who had some ideas on that kind of body modification, a doctor... uh, Viktor something or other. Fronner, Franker- something, I can't quite remember. Got in some legal trouble with the locals, though, I never heard what became of him. :lol:

(Sorry, couldn't resist some Halloween humor...)

Captain Jack

Connie, I have found no solution to the armpit problem you described, other than workarounds like:

-hiding that area with clothes, or hair (Sapphire Fox hair, which is also beautiful, is easy to position over that whole shoulder mess while still looking natural.)  But hiding the mess isn't really practical for many poses, or nudes, so

-postwork smudges, cloning, etc.

You've probably already been something like this, so I apologize if this isn't helpful.

To help with the "other" shoulder problem (ie, the shoulder and arm bulge on the outside), I heartily recommend an inj/rem morph utitility by Maveris. There is an updated version at his site
Digitalmeanderings.com.  Look under Utilities.  I consider it indispensable.

Jevans69 - you mean that FrankenPoser character? He got burned for going off the beaten path, didn't he?  ;)  tee heee 

Linkdink - Thanks a bunch :)  I'll check into the utilities. 

I was contemplating something like exporting the character into hexagon or zbrush and doing touchups then reimporting... but there's still a ton have to learn about that.

Does anyone know why the shoulders are that way? is there a limitation with poser capabilities when it comes to mesh folding and character rigging? Was it a performance/quality type compromise? (I'm just curious)

Quote - you mean that FrankenPoser character? He got burned for going off the beaten path, didn't he?  ;)  tee heee 

Yup, he was just looking for someone to give him a hand, and they all got mad at him. He tried to say he was just pulling their legs, but they didn't buy it.

Quote - Does anyone know why the shoulders are that way? is there a limitation with poser capabilities when it comes to mesh folding and character rigging? Was it a performance/quality type compromise? (I'm just curious)

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Poser doesn't deform joints the way the actual human body moves, and the existing arrangement is probably the best compromise there is. In particular, the way the latissimus dorsi swells as the scapula rotates during the lifting of the arm causes that whole area of the body to take on a different shape. The only way I can think of to make it more accurate would be to have a series of morph targets for each angle of the upper arm with respect to the chest, and I would imagine that would make posing much more difficult.

Oh, jevans69, while you're here, I was musing over the shoe that you modelled/showed in the modeling forum.
Have you thought about writing a quick tutorial on how you did it? Or maybe you already did it? :)

I haven't done a tutorial, and hadn't actually thought about it, but if you like, I can certainly write one up.

It would be very cool if you did!
I'd love it, for one! 
I have some vague idea it was modelled by subdivision.... It's a really pretty looking model. It doesn't seem awfully complicated, but still looks like something well worth learning. So, if you don't mind sharing, that would be just awesome !!!!!!

Oh, for those of you who are wondering what I'm talking about, Jevans posted a picture of one of his wonderful works in progress in modelling forim, I think mentioning that he will eventually turn it into a poser prop...
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/media/folder_8/file_357524.jpg

Probably the only way to fix shoulders in Poser would be with joint-controlled-reverse-morphing (JCRM). What is JCRM, you ask?

Basically, you take the affected body parts in their bent position into a modeling program, correct their shape in this position, then apply this as a morph target. Then you apply the bent plain versions of each as a morph target, set this "plain" morph to -1 while keeping the new morph set at 1, and then spawn a new morph target from that. Then use the bend to control the morph dial. Simple, no?

I call it ..reverse morphing because you are basically reverse-engineering the bend pose with a morph target. Shoulders are one thing that isn't easy in any program.

It's pronounced Frahn ken steen

You don't say Fro derik, do you?

Well no..;)

-eye gor

This image is not V3, but SP3. I'm hoping to sell this when I finish this project soon.

Of course, V4 may not have this issue at all, or new P7 may have something to address this problem. Let's wait and see.

Other programs have a much easier time with joint bends (and corrections). Poser uses a really screwed up system for rigging. Let's hope Poser 7 catches up with with most other rigging implementations. If they do, it should get a lot easier to deal with...

didn't someone upload a set of morphs for shoulder, elbow and knee? i think i saw it in the freebies..... i've found it: V3 INJ-REM Utility INJ-REM utility for V3 to have the contro of both eyes and to adjust shoulders, arms, elbows, buttocks and knees. Link to the download page http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/index.php?section_id=197&&page=4

Hey lam2 - very nice!  the shoulders look terrific, and the whole picture is... nice!

Indeed, P7 and/or V4 may address this.... but the future may leave poor V3 and SP3 with those bad shoulders.  In which case, I think people (including me) would line up for your morph. Got one for V3??

I'm going to work on V3 after I finish SP3, and after that maybe M3 or D3...but who knows what happens after P7 and V4, M4 are released.

You can't see from the picture, but this SP3 project has more natural looking back as well. You know, I just want to make those DAZ figure look more natural.

Thanks!

lam2

That’s looking very good lam2….
Nice work.

SWAMP

Thank you, SWAMP.

adp001, that's a very good looking work.

lam2

Iam2, those are LOVELY arms you've got going there.  Those shoulders are just wonderful.

V4 may have better shoulders but the 3 series aren't going to just vanish when she comes along ;).

a nice job indeed, lam2, tell us more about it, if you please.

amacord, thank you for inquiring. I'd like to tell you more in detail, but I think it's better to start another thread in more appropriate forum, like product showcase or something, hopefuly whithin a week or so.

Meanwhile, I'll be adding images with these morphs in use to my gallery starting this weekend. Currently, my gallery is totally empty!

Anyway, my morph is intended to enhance the details of the body, rather than making new morph character. This will enhance any character's body you already own. Make it just a little more realistic.

Since I mentioned about the back, I'm uploading another image.

Thanks.

lam2

lam2, you've also got some VERY nice, natural lighting going on there.  I would be interested in those lights, as well (hint, hint).

adp, your girl is also looking good. Is that body morph for the "Gloria" figure, or is it a V3 morph you are calling Gloria?

Hi linkdink. Which version of Poser do you use?

I used P6 for all 3 renders above. I use Vue5i for render most of the time, but I thought it's more fair to use Poser renderer to introduce my morph project, and I'm glad you liked it, because P6 comes with great pre-set lightings.

All three images were rendered with IBL AO. The last image was rendered with 'Lagoon desaturated' pre-set, and additional 2 lights. One infinite light behind her to augment the contour of her back, and the other from front as a spot, so her front half won't sink in shadow.

Both additional lights used 25 to 35 percent power so it won't overwhelm the nice diffused lighting of IBL AO. 

You may know this already, but experiment with AO strength though. Because pre-sets comes with rather strong AO effect.

1st and 2nd image was rendered with Depth of Field feature turned on. Although it adds a lot more time to render with this setting, but it makes the rendered image appear more photographic.

I'll upload all three images above into my gallery this weekend, so please check it out. I believe I'm allowed to upload bigger file into my gallery than to the forum.

Do you know the image size limit to post in forum? I don't. I don't even know where to find such informations...my goodness.

lam2