Quote -

i agree.  i'm not interested by them either.  the thing is is that the problem lies more with how those things are used and not with those things themselves. personally, i'd love to see those things removed as well if for no other reason than to create a more relaxed environment, so to speak, and maybe a greater sense of community, but i'm not sure removing them actually addresses what i perceive to be the real problem which is how they are used since what drives them is people's behaviours/tendencies... i'm not asking you to agree, but does that make any sense? 

I agree. But at issue is that only some of us perceive the current state of the galleries as problematic. It's clear that any number of people are delighted with the status quo. So, I think you have to look at the motivating factors before you can effect any change...

• Some people post to get honest feedback on how they are doing...
• Some people post to get their ego stroked...
• Some want attention...
• Some want validation.
• Some people post to sell their/or their friends products...
• Some people post what I think of as postcard art. I don't mean that offensively-- the image itself may be good, bad or indifferent, but it's purpose is to get their online friends to drop in and socialize.
• Some people may even post just to have a portfolio online and are completely indifferent to comments or ratings.

That's just some of the motivations that I can perceive and of those listed the majority probably have no issue with how the gallery is currently functioning and think the community is great.

Just my two cents...
Pearl

That's cheating! Now I'm just agreeing with myself! :laugh:

i wholly agree... motivation and behaviours go hand in hand.  that's actually a pretty good list you put up there, Pearl, and i can only assume that a person's motivation to post might traverse across that list too, posting one day to socialise, posting the next in want of honest feedback, and the like.

Tainted_heart:

Quote - As far as the critique cabal...if you want to be a part of it, feel free. My primary point was that there are too many cliques stroking each other whether the images deserve it or not.

Well, now is your chance to participate in change.  Pick up a gun and go to the front lines!

hey, just a minuite now! since when are we posting images of felinophagia? it's anathema here, I tell ya! the cliques will be up in arms over this latest atrocity :lol: p.s. I'd like to comment on why folks post images here, but there is no politically correct way to do it. :lol:

~GASP!~ Alcohol abuse!! :laugh:

I think we need to hold a minutes silence to show our respect, they died too young.

The posting of cat pics was wrong, funny, but wrong no matter how you look at it or what the point was.

The thread was about something that started about a problem and a good idea that unfortunatly turned into a twisted version of the ooo's and aaah's,  that has taken over the art charts, which is condoned because it's hiding behind the name of Critique Group. I did warn you this would happen if the right messures were not taken.

I don't know which is worse now. The ooo's groups or the fanatic Critique group that is bragging about it.

You can go back to your pussy posting now.

ummm....beryld.....you do know this is renderosity right? eventually all threads end up with cat pics.....

It seems really rude to intentionally disrupt a serious discussion with multiple posts of cat pictures or broken beer bottles, or anything else not pertinent to the discussion. Not approving of the discussion or disagreeing with what is being said is no reason to disrupt it. There are people that are interested in participating in the discussion and exchanging ideas and concerns. This happens all too often in threads and it's ceased being a "cute little joke" and has become a complete annoyance!

actually, I think it's different. the "ooohs and aahhs group" tended to post images that were never fixed nor improved upon, whereas there's evidence that the "critique club" are posting images, getting tips on what's wrong, then fixing 'em. in the past, if somebody said there was something wrong with an image posted by the "ooohs and aahhs group", the response would sometimes be an attempt to form a lynch mob thread in this forum, to silence the critic. I haven't seen that with the "critique club" yet, and I hope it never happens.

It seems really rude to intentionally disrupt a serious discussion with multiple posts of cat pictures or broken beer bottles, or anything else not pertinent to the discussion.

Sorry to hear that you two feel that way.

Thread drift is a factor of forum life. We don't intend to rule the forums with a rod of iron, removing any OT posts. (That was tried back in 2003 and went down like the proverbial lead balloon, killing any feeling of community spirit and engendering huge resentment.)

We try to strike a balance here and I'd like to think that we achieve it probably 95% of the time. At least, the majority seem to think so ;-)

Beryld:

Quote - I don't know which is worse now. The ooo's groups or the fanatic Critique group that is bragging about it.

Considering I just spend a couple of hours commenting, I am puzzled why you think this.  The vast majority of the comments I've seen that have come out of this effort are anything but ooh/ahhs.  I don't suppose you've spent any time looking at these yourself, or you might have a different perception.

The perturbation of the Holy, Most Sacred Art Charts is only in the "most favorited" category, and since that's a running average, it can be expected to go back to normal in a week or two.  I think your comments regarding this effort are nasty, unfounded and unreasonable, and I'm disappointed you're being this negative about what is - at least so far - an honest and constructive effort, with little if any mutal back-patting.

There's one thing that this critique group business is doing for me personally.

I pay more attention when looking at an image. What is good, what could improve. I learn from the critiques of others, not only from the critiques on my own images, but especially on those of others. I learn to look better at my own work, I learn to identify the things that are not right, and while knowing what is wrong is quite different from knowing how to fix it, it's an important step on the way to better quality images.

It wouldn't surprise me if the same goes for other members of this "cabal". Well, if it enables us to make better images, wha'ts to complain? Disruption of the Art Charts my foot!.

Quote - It seems really rude to intentionally disrupt a serious discussion with multiple posts of cat pictures or broken beer bottles, or anything else not pertinent to the discussion.

Sorry to hear that you two feel that way.

Thread drift is a factor of forum life. We don't intend to rule the forums with a rod of iron, removing any OT posts. (That was tried back in 2003 and went down like the proverbial lead balloon, killing any feeling of community spirit and engendering huge resentment.)

We try to strike a balance here and I'd like to think that we achieve it probably 95% of the time. At least, the majority seem to think so ;-)

There's a big diffence between the thread drift of a thread that's winding down and the intentional disruption of an active thread...and I think you know that. This was definately not a case of thread drift. Normally, when a thread drifts, a member that is an active participant starts the drift after the discussion wanes. In this case someone, who was not a participant attempted to disrupt the thread and force it to drift while the discussion was still going. That should be discouraged...and in fact is likely a TOS violation.

From the TOS:

"Destructive commentary/communications made with the intent to disrupt or attack (Trolling)."

This sort of behavior should be discouraged because it is disruptive and it discourages the free exchange of ideas and opinions. It's childish, immature behavior which does not belong in the middle of a serious discussion. You, as a Moderator should discourage such disruptions instead of participating in them. I realize you think it's cute and harmless...but put yourself in the shoes of people that are interested in this topic. Imagine yourself trying to have an adult conversation in a group of adults and a bunch of kids jump in between you and start shouting and making noise and shoving pictures of cats in your face and...and you'll have a better sense of the impact. I bet all those kids would be getting a "time out" at the very least.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

Thread drift is not a TOS violation.

Quote - Thank you for sharing your opinion.

Thread drift is not a TOS violation.

That would be the case if this in fact, was a case of thread drift...but that does not appear to be the case...and it amazes me that you cannot see that.

The other concern you should have is who holds the copyright to the images that are being posted? Certainly, "fair use" would definately not apply to the way they are being used here. I am under the impression Renderosity does not allow the posting of copyrighted images unless the poster has permission from the copyright holder.

Thanks for your time.

What a distressing and unfortunate segue into the land of Who-Gives-A-Shit.  :(

Hi again T_H!

That would be the case if this in fact, was a case of thread drift...but that does not appear to be the case...and it amazes me that you cannot see that.

I guess that makes two of us in the land of amazement today!

*The other concern you should have is who holds the copyright to the images that are being posted?...

*It is up to a copyright holder to uphold their rights.  It is important that we don't allow just anyone to say "hey, that's copyright" without them providing any proof.

We do not have the time to get deeply involved with vague, unfounded copyright claims.  If the person complaining can be specific on which image was in violation and show where it was copyrighted to another person, we will remove the image(s) in question.  However, a vague statement that someone "might" be using something that isn't theirs is time consuming and in vain. 

Thanks!

The cat pictures don't bother me. A little thread drift is normal, we all do it, including myself. I only thought it was wrong to to completely over take the thread that way. I don't want anyone to think that I think threads need to be ruled. I don't believe in that kind of stuff. I only mentioned it due to courtesy to the thread but it is obviously community courtesy that does not apply here.

pjz99 once again you have mis-understood my meaning and flamed me. I pointed out what could happen and it did. You and others said I was being negative and it would not happen. It has happened and you still want to flame me for pointing that out. Now I read in the other thread some of you bragging about how you have changed things. You say it is only temporary, maybe but it still happened. You keep trying to convince everyone that I'm defending these stupid charts with your comments. I'm not.

Learning something is a good thing. Nothing wrong with that. Saying that it does not matter what effect it has in the name of the group is not cool.

If we could just get rid of the damn art charts to begin with there would not be any need for these threads.

Beryl, you've obviously made up your mind, for whatever reason, that the Critique Group is a Bad Thing. That's fine, you're entitled to hold any belief that you wish.

You also seem convinced that anybody who disagrees with you is "flaming" you. So I'll leave you in peace and not respond to any more of your assertions.

You might want to check SpamCop's definition of "Flaming"...

Quote - What a distressing and unfortunate segue into the land of Who-Gives-A-Shit.  :(

Hehehehehehe....most excellent. Concise and accurate.
I enjoyed Karen's cat pictures, and offer my thanks to her for posting them. If one makes the effort to read back through this entire thread, it's very obvious that she was responding with a bit of appreciated humor to another member's equally funny reference to the topic of content censorship, which certainly has an impact on the issue under discussion here.

Beryld

Quote - pjz99 once again you have mis-understood my meaning and flamed me. I pointed out what could happen and it did. You and others said I was being negative and it would not happen. It has happened and you still want to flame me for pointing that out. Now I read in the other thread some of you bragging about how you have changed things. You say it is only temporary, maybe but it still happened. You keep trying to convince everyone that I'm defending these stupid charts with your comments. I'm not.

You have greatly misunderstood me.  I never flamed and never bragged.  I'm unable to converse with you if you're so dead set on looking for the absolute worst in anything that happens and anything that is said to you.  Good luck in life.

oops! now the thread has drifted from critiques and cat pix to personal disputes. I have a sinking feeling that it's gonna get locked. :crying:

Hey I personally thought the cat pics were great and a perfect way to lighten the mood of what would have become a very dark and depressing thread... It was in no way a means of pushing the topic off or disrupting the conversation, just a way to remind others that this is a community and emotions do play a part so its good to have a laugh on occasion.

On the note of the pics being a copyright issue... I would only be concerned if they chose to upload it to their personal gallery and claim it as their own. Since no one has done that then it isn't an issue.

EDIT On a side note, considering what the thread was started for was more critique in the galleries and the topic has now actually moved to a sticky, I would have to assume that this particular thread isn't necessary anymore, right?

Just my two cents!

Quote - On the note of the pics being a copyright issue... I would only be concerned if they chose to upload it to their personal gallery and claim it as their own. Since no one has done that then it isn't an issue.

Then I guess you won't mind if people grab the images from your gallery and post them where ever they choose without giving you credit...as long as they don't claim it as their own.

 beryld no one has been trying to attack you...pjz99 may have made some irreverent and perhaps rude comments, but no attacks.

Karen, I'll say this for you...you've certainly learned to dance around and diminish an issue with the best of them. Kudo's for mastering that skill. Since I was the one that started this thread...please lock it. Everything that can be said has been...no point in encouraging the dead horse pictures to start appearing.

the kittie pix are probly copyright violations (I ain't a lawyer) but they allow 'em here, likely because to disallow 'em would seem heavy-handed.

I was actually interested in and reading this thread until the cat pictures appeared and once again a thread goes astray. I don't understand why some folks feel the need to post them in a thread where they haven't offered a single comment beforehand in regards to what's being discussed. It is childish. If you had no interest in what was being discussed then move on. I have nothing against cats, owning two of them myself, but I am pretty tired of seeing them needlessly in a serious discussion. I came back today to see if the thread had gotten back on topic but I see it's gone the way of many others.

Sorry, tainted-heart, the topic was a good one while it lasted.

T-heart. For someone who has only posted 18 images in four years, I would think you would concentrate on posting rather than worrying about people "sucking up" since no one can comment on your work - or others - if you do not post work for people to comment on.

I never said or implied the Critique goup was a bad thing. I have repeatedly said the idea was a good thing. The only the only part I found tainted is the fact that many complained how the populars contoled the charts, now your group is and  some of you keep telling me there is nothing wrong with that. To me that is wrong. 

I'm sorry my opinion is not the same as yours and you think that I'm only looking for the bad, which was not my intent.

After that last posted image, yes I agree this thread should be locked and you might want to do something about that last pic.

Quote - T-heart. For someone who has only posted 18 images in four years, I would think you would concentrate on posting rather than worrying about people "sucking up" since no one can comment on your work - or others - if you do not post work for people to comment on.

Considering the fact that the current 18 images in my gallery were posted in the past year and you do not have any images posted, i'd say you should take your own comment to heart and concentrate on posting rather than worrying what I am or am not doing.

18 images are more than enough for people to comment on at the moment. Unlike some here, I do have a life that does not involve Renderosity or constantly posting images here...nor do I require an ocean of fans to boost my ego or validate me or my work!

I am locking this thread per a request from the original thread starter.