some chick: you make prop-type stuff, right? vehicles, stuff like that
me: i wouldn't call them exactly props
some chick: well, stonemason makes buildings and stuff and they're props
me: see, if you work with poser, it's okay to call them props. if you work with anything else, you call them art
some chick: well i couldn't hard surface model to save my life

....

Genius

Huh !?!?  What ?

The concensus seems to be that if you make your own models it isn't art; if you render somebody else's models it is.:blink:

Works for me !  Of course I can't model worth a bucket of warm spit.

Okay, now I get it! I've been going at this whole "art" thing the wrong way! A carefully composed scene full of laboriously crafted models is just an advertisement for potential props, unless it has Poser people in it! From now on I am going to add a Poser figure, or two, or maybe a hundred in my scenes so that I too can be considered an "artist". ;-)

It's just Barbie, but on a computer.

***"me: see, if you work with poser, it's okay to call them props. if you work with anything else, you call them art"

***Well, one interpretation of that could be that Poser workers are down-to-earth whereas those "anything else" workers are right up their own arses.

Being in both work groups means I know neither generalisation is true, but I am left wondering if there's maybe a little something arse related about someone who sells product to Poser users being on a Poser rant in the Bryce forum.

True appreciation of this editorial can only be acquired in the Poser forum. Let the entertainments begin...

.

There are very few who can pull off a good poser Image, I agree with orbital, most people use poser just like a Barbie but for computers.

Here is an example to illustrate.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1471386

At first glance is like wow look at that... but if you step back and look objectivly, there is this great oppertunity for a great action scene between Beast and Beauty.

Instead we have a Poser Model standing there holding sorts, with the expression that looks like she is constipated.

A very high percentage of Poser renders are like this, a Poser figure, with bunch of clothing, hair etc.. with a pose and than render and submit.   Facial Expression and a proper pose is very important and a lot of these just fall short.

Here is a good example:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1474268

In this one although we can see her face, this is a great action scene maybe a bit of motion blur in post would top it off... but this type of scene is better than the previous one.

Regardless of the genre, Paint, sketch, photo, Digital artware, FRIGGIN Tomatoes slammed up against a wall.....It's ART in the eye of the expressionist. Your interpretation is your own.

What grows an ill placed hair across my cheeks is the whiners & cryers, that piss & moan over the expressions of others. If you don't have anything nice or constructively technical(without personal issue)........Then shut the Truck Up!!
 
I've been reading comments from pissers lately commenting on their personal taste, while not taking into consideration that they've Thrown somebody's ass under the bus. I've come to the resolution that I'm not going to respond to these shallow souls and let KARMA, The big tooth dog "Chew them a New one".

Rant Over

.
"...most people use poser just like a Barbie but for computers."

I agree, but just don't see anything wrong with it. After all, the 3D stuff I enjoy is equivalent to going 'whoosh' past your head with a spaceship model. There are at least three guys in this thread who do fine work in that vein.

When it comes to actual, you-know-it-when-you-see-it art, there is very little on evidence in any of the galleries here.

There is, however, rather a lot of highly skilled 3D illustration, even amongst Poser users who use purchased models and freebies:

Ken..

Quote - ...What grows an ill placed hair across my cheeks is the whiners & cryers, that piss & moan over the expressions of others...

Yup. That's my point. I am constantly told and see it said that making 3d models isn't art. Usually there are accusations of elitism thrown in when modelling is even mentioned; or else it is pointed out by a dozen people that modelling isn't 'real art', doesn't count, and doesn't mean anything.

I don't know if I make ART - I just try to have fun and express the ideas I see inside my head. I still use a lot of Poser 4 figures and have gotten some very good works (usually after doing some serious poly pushing in mesh tweaks)

I won't look down my nose at anyone posting here regardless of skill or talent. everyone posting has that urge to create and that is the important thing. All at least try, some grow from the experience, some don't... but all try!

I know someone who is never going to be an accomplished painter (personal opinion), but she loves doing it anyway. It brings her pleasure to do even if no-one sees what she sees. Sometimes she does catch something. Regardless of success or failure by others definition, I applaud her for taking that step to create and having the sense that ultimately it is only herself that has to be happy with her work.

Poser is just a tool. As is Bryce, Cinema or PhotoPaint. Create, and please yourself above all else.

brilliant! I can so relate to this!

So what am I ? A modeller, architect, artist, graphic designer? I don't know and I care even less. I just know that I work hard at something that is pleasing to me and to some of you.
But there are a lot of peps out there who could spend a bit more time working to improve their bog-standard characters that are right out of the poser box instead of slapping the things onto the page and claiming that it's art right after discovering the Vicky tit-magnets...er....I mean breast morphs.

So what am I? ... a martian?!

The "breast morphs"? Didn't they open for Darkness at Hammersmith-Odeon?

I don't mind any tool, expression, prop people use and call it art, but some of the renders, it is very apparent that they didn't do anything to Barbie except repose her and call it art,...uhhh, I mean Viki, lol. ...eye of the beholder I guess.

I like Pie!

no, that was the Breast Magnets..;) they used Electricians' tape just the way WendyO' WIlliams used to..;)

I must fess up...to be honest, I use Poser figures to get people to look at the modeling...;) without a hooman bean in the pic, most people will pass it by.

What Stonemason does with models is art...and Drac's pullin' up behind him..;)

Actually, you can get a little bit of 'focus' by choosing each eye, and then using Object|Point at|Main camera...and then the eyes will follow you wherever you go..;) gives a little 'connection', but it makes my gallery look like the Hollywood squares...;)

and why are we having a Poser discussion in the Bryce forum?..;)

   This is a poser site so it is expected that you will have the poser reality warp here. Nothing wrong with using poser and making nice pictures but there is a distinct lack of appreciation for those who put forth the extra effort to make all original stuff. To boot there is an expectation that you will give away your work so others can use it.
     
     The poser galleries are the most popular so if you are posting elswhere here your work pretty much will be ignored. If you want to hang out with others who make their own content then it would probably be best to go to a site that caters to that.

   I just post here for the few people I know here at this site. To get recognician for my work or critiques that I can use to improve it I go elsewhere.

I find this true in the physical world too. Years ago I used to like going to a hobby shop and buying plastic model kits. Building them involved cutting the plastic parts, following instructions, glue, then carefully painting them. Lastly came decals that you had to soak first in water. Now days there's a different, instant gratification, attitude. More and more I see model kits pretty much already assembled, already painted, already decaled. Put together a model in 10 minutes instead of days or weeks. We live in a world where we are instantly gratified.. want sports on TV, there's 24 hour sports channels; or news, or biography, or history, or classic films, or cartoons, or.... The instant breakfast, instant lunch, instant dinner markets are getting more popular. Is it a "now" generation?

A little about me is I'm the type who likes to take time to do something I truly enjoy. I like gardening outside, doing woodworking, and reading the classic literature books.. you know, the thick, hardback ones. And I like 3D modeling. Making something original, that no one else has, then rendering it is like.. the cherry on top of an ice cream sunday (sundae?) You know, the missing part that the scene just needed to make it right. And better that I could make it from scratch.

There's nothing like doing it yourself.

Of course there's lots of nice things in a market place, and freebies are wonderful too. So for every rule there is an exception. My uncle was a professional painter, very old school. Made his own paints. Although I don't physically paint, in the 3D world I do similar, and it is rewarding when I can look at something I rendered and know that all, or nearly all, you see is completely made by me.

"The "breast morphs"? Didn't they open for Darkness at Hammersmith-Odeon"  Nope,.......that was the Morphing Breasts.

We might have a simple terminology issue here. In Poser, anything that's not a Figure, or Hair, or a Pose, is in the Props folder. Frankly, I admire anyone who can get a half-decent render out of that program. And Poser, without a fair amount of plugins and add-ons, is very limiting when you're used to a modeling program or a more flexible render engine. (Sorry, FireFly drives me buggy.) Real world.. Pixar has people who model, people who animate, people who texture, people who do FX. Each one is just as important as the rest. And how the final images are arrived at, isn't as important as the images themselves. We don't have ten people to fill in our weak spots, so we use what we have at hand. Not everything here qualifies as art with a capital A, but there is really nice work in all the galleries. lee's 2-cents worth..

PJF: I'm a DAZ brokered 'artist' and i don't sell for the Poser community, I sell models at large. And they're made in Bryce/Carrara.

m

...and i don't sell for the Poser community...

http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/shop/itemdetails/-/?item=5110

Must be really tough having DAZ take your work for Poserisers

.

Drac:
thot you made your models in Wings?
By the way, nice Bryce work lately. Wish I could find my mojo.
John

If you will glance to your right, you will see two names, not one. Xenic101 did the porting to Poser. It's still a ship, not nipple rings, skirts, or other Poser paraphernalia. Plus it was sold to Poser outright, with all rights waivered. The money they paid me for it makes me immune to whatever use they give it - even wiping their ass with a hardcopy and posting it on YouTube.

All in all, I really don't give a rat's ass. Now you keep doing whatever you do best. 

m

Usually when I throw a in comment , the thread dies.  "why are we doing this, .........again?'

Threadkiller!!!

Nipples rings and floss g-strings RULE! ;)

Quote - Usually when I throw a in comment , the thread dies.  "why are we doing this, .........again?'

Group Therapy, now everyone have a group hug,
:b_nervous:
My name is Gog and I do a little bryce and blender a little.....

*ALL-*Greek-chorus unison-*Hi Gog!

I swore last week I was going to model a little bottle labled Chill Pills. This weekend, it's getting done. As far as I can tell, the major difference between a Model and a Poser Prop, is that a Poser Prop is a heck of a lot more work.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=450554&member

Known bambam for ages.. he does good stuff. Now try getting that Poserized. shudder I'd rather pull out my fingernails. Clarification: You work for days or weeks making a model. To get it into Poser, you work for days or weeks... It wrecks the phong settings. It turns furniture into Toon Town rejects. It does mindboggling things to the UV mapping. Your textures turn to glue. Faces disappear. You have to do strange and arcane things to it in Poser... Did I mention my hands shake and my stomach churns every time I even think about opening Poser? Afraid my stuff will stay in Cinema.

I know, i'm just sticking up for Bryce. Know nothing about poser so I can't really comment.

The thread is dead! Eeek.

R.I.P.

This thread confused me :)

Die, die, die oh thread of dread.   Die I say.

hehe hehehe   crap it isn't working.

Must keep thread alive. Drac inject some adrenalin and get ready to restart the thread.

....I dont call it anything.....I just look at it and if I enjoy it then i study it and enjoy it more. Dont care what its called or if its called anything. You may refer to my work as therapy...it tends to keep me on the close side of sane.  I may use a wide variety of programs, use what you can and what serves ya well. 
 I have learned to generally not listen to people go on about things. tends to be a waste of time. Dont really care about their opinion or to change it. I am what i am and do what i do. And I do it because its something within me that needs to get out.
 that said i am convinced that i need to learn to create my own content.....
 Ya`all have a great weekend,
:)

Isn't this argument about as revealing as saying, "Look! humans have two eyes on their faces." If the eyes were an the same side of the face you might have something new.

I still like pie... and breast morphs.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=904834&member

See "tales from the crypt" by electroglyph, March, 2005.  The whole posting is a great chuckle if you haven't seen it.  And, yes, it does apply to this thread.

....I like BBQ chicken.....
....and honestly I dont think i`ve ever posted in a thread here and I just wanted to be included........so thx and cya.......

Speaking about the Hot 20, nowadays know as the "Top 100 Most Viewed / Last 45 Days", out of all those 100 pictures not a single one had something else than the human body as a subject.

Yep, most can't modell their way out of a wet paperbag.

....I would think that most folks get into 3D by setting up scenes and rendering or posing figures. Much easier and less time consuming than learning to make meshes. And prolly most of the non-professionals either arent interested enough to discipline themselves to do it (because it is not a real easy learning process for us mortals) or dont have the time. 
 There are however many nice freebies out there as well as some excellent ones you can buy (Meshbox). 
 Of course consider what they are interested in doing and seeing....we as human can be forgiven for being preoccupied with the human as subject. Maybe we should run a poll and see what people say.....?

Quote - If I keep posting to this thread all will finally figure out I have nothing to say.

See "tales from the crypt" by electroglyph, March, 2005.  The whole posting is a great chuckle if you haven't seen it.  And, yes, it does apply to this thread.

I agree with that.  And since I joined(earlier this year?), I have seen countless rants, and yes, I have ranted a few times too.  I'm upset about the fact that just because it's done in poser and you can see a naked chick, it's art.  Some of the renders are pretty good, and I do know some of the frustration of trying to get Poser to work.  I had an absolute nightmare making Bryce work, as some of you remember and gave a lot of advice. 

I don't consider the renders I have made art, but I like them.  I know they are no where near the level of what some other people here have done, but I like them, and they all came from my head.  But I do consider them superior to some other renders I have seen, BECAUSE they came from my head, and I pieced them together bit by bit, not loading it up after someone sold it to me, and tweaking it's pose, or taking it's clothes off, and uploading it and calling it all mine.

I don't make props.  I wouldn't call them models.  And I do not call what I make art.  I pull what I have in my head out, and render it to the best of my abilty.  I am better at making something with my hands, than on the computer.  But I like it, on and off of my Lappy 3500.  So, If I have offended someone like I normally do daily, I'm sorry.  I really didn't mean to.  But I do feel better now, and hopefully at least some of you do to.  Or did I truly tick someone off and get myself banned?  Oh well.

In my perfect world, Metacreations sold off all their other crap and kept Bryce and Poser, fully intergrated them to work as modules of a single program, upgraded and updated the program on a yearly basis and retailed the whole shebang for less than $300 US.

And put the rest of the 3d progs out of business.

I would live in the real world, but I'm so much happier here.  :^)

John

Well I will say what annoys me is not so much making poser pics. Who cares. It is great artisists who are being ignored like Lemong , Flakmonkey Matthieu. Mostly becuase of the insular nature of the poser community. Most users will not bother looking at pictures made in other programs regardless of content. A lot of very good artists left this place for similar reasons.

       Does it matter. Well really it doesn't. There are other sites and a few which poser is simply not permitted so there are other places to go. What can we do to make it better. Go through some other galleries that are not poser or Bryce enjoy them and find some real gems and acknowledge them. Appreciate the effort that it takes to build things up from scratch as opposed to downloading or buying items and make note of it.