Hi all!

I need 2 or 3 beta-testers for a Hiro outfit you could see here, here and there.

PM me if you're interested, i need a P6 owner, P5, and P7 to check compatibility.

Hi... Do you still need some tester ? As noone answered here....

Ok for now, i found the testers ^^

Thanks

My first question is how do you make the clothing for models without pulling your hair out?  I tried with Hexagon and in all the modeling programs, there is a huge learning curve.
Adrian

Not that huge, i found Hexagon rather fiendly ^^
I don't know all about it (and doubt i could ever), but as soon as you found the tricks to model with it, ut becomes easier each time :D

Just begin with some tuts like this one:
http://jojo-baddog.sitesled.com/Tutorials/Hexagon/SD_Modeling/Modeling%20A%20Dress%20in%20Hexagon1.htm

Quote - My first question is how do you make the clothing for models without pulling your hair out? 

Well, if you start off with no hair, you have an advantage!

I found Hexagon one of the easier apps to use. I've been modelling for quite a long time, so it;s hard for me to say what it's like to learn it.
Having said that, even with some experience, I really dig hexagon for basic subdivision modelling. For this type of modelling, I like it better then a number of higher end applications.

About starting out, start simple, and give yourself time. It does take a little time to get used to 3D modelling, especially when starting from scratch (and not crossing over from other similar apps or fields.)

Creating clothes is pretty much the same as creating a figure. The difference between that sort of thing and the experience of the average Poser user is like the gap between the stars, but it can be crossed if you're determined. Not for the faint of heart. You'll need lots of time and some measure of patience.

Ok, probably too late to play, but I love the outfit.  Just wanted to get my vote in and see if there are any slots left for the test crew.

Just wanted to say, I really like that outfit, Vince.  Details look really great in your renders of them

Quote - I really dig hexagon for basic subdivision modelling. For this type of modelling, I like it better then a number of higher end applications.

I've seen this said before, and I have to ask, Connie, what is it about Hex that you prefer?  I know you also have Max, so that makes me even more curious, because recently I went through a fairly complex Hexagon modeling tutorial using the tools in 3dsmax 8, and I found the workflow to be so similar, it was nearly identical.  It was a subD box modeling tutorial for making clothes coincidentally, and I have to say everything they were showing in the Hex tut, we also have in Max (under the ePoly not eMesh) tools.  The only difference was the GUI.  I guess that could have an impact on preference if you're more used to one over the other, but it wasn't a difference that would impact workflow as far as I could tell.  Granted, I only saw the screencaps of the Hex GUI, I never actually laid hands on the app.

Sorry cedarwolf, my crew is complete for now, but i would certainly do other stuff ;)

Thanks maxxx! I really like it too LOL
Seriously, i've spent a lot of time on it, and i must say i learned a lot of things about Hex when modeling it.
I definitively think that Hex is an easy learning modeler, because i wasn't in modeling before using it, and i don't have it for years. Subdivision modelling works like a charm with it :D
btw, maxxx, what is that tut you went through? I don't know a lot of tuts for Hex concerning clothing.

Quote - maxxx, what is that tut you went through? I don't know a lot of tuts for Hex concerning clothing.

Of course now that I want to find it again, I can't.  Looked over on Polyloop and it's not there either.  Can't recall where I stumbled upon it, Vince.  Hmm.  Maybe Connie would know of it.  They were modeling a shirt over what looked like a toonish Poser character (maybe the Girl) using SubD box modeling.  I was able to follow along quite easily using Max, but it was a little new for me to build clothing that way anyhow, because aside from footwear, I always just used the Garnment Maker and spline modeling in 3dsmax to do clothing like shirts and pants, etc. based on pattern/stitch templates.  I think I still prefer doing it that way for speed sake, but subD has it's merits, like working with all quads, which makes for better UV layout.

Also, I never really tried making clothing for Poser specifically, which seems to have it's own challenges.  All my creations so far were intended for end-use right in Max itself.

Quote - I've seen this said before, and I have to ask, Connie, what is it about Hex that you prefer? 

Hi Maxxmodelz :)
yes, 3dmax and hex do have similar workflows, which made it quick for me to pick up.
What I love in hex is the way it handles selection sets, edge and polygon looping. Maybe it's me, but I never had a lot of success with that in max. I hear there's a plug-in that aids with selection set loops for max. I'll have to look up it's name.

Some things are little simpler and easier to get to then in max. Things like welding and detaching. I have a lot less experience in hex then in max, but there are things I can do a little bit quicker and easier in hex. 

I haven't discovered if max has z-brush type sculpting brushes. Hex has them.

I like hex's uv unwrap mapping a litle bit better. Again, it's a lot like max's pelt mapping, but hex is a bit easier to use.

With some things it seems like what max does in 10 steps, hex can do in 5-7. Hex learning curve is much shorter too. There are things now I know how to do in hex, that I still can't figure out in max.

Sure, there's a number of higher end things that max does better, or that hex doesn't do at all, so I use combo of the two apps. 

Sorry, it's close to bedtime, and I'm not near a 3D machine, so I'm talking in general terms here. If you want more details, I can elaborate tomorrow :)

temporary thread hi-jack

Well I can understand that Max can be somewhat of the "Grand Canyon" when all you really wanted was a "pic-a-nic" at a local park (hey boo boo!)...so there are no arguments there. However, there is one plugin that leaves all else in the dust...poly boost.
Yes, it's worth it.
Not trying to convince the crowd but really that plug-in alone almost makes it a sure bet...at least for me.

hi-jack threat is secure, you can all now return to your seats

Nice work Vince

Quote -
Sorry, it's close to bedtime, and I'm not near a 3D machine, so I'm talking in general terms here. If you want more details, I can elaborate tomorrow :)

Cool.  Maybe we can discuss it more in-depth over PM, so as not to further hijack Vince's thread here.   :-) 

There is no hijack as i already have my testers ;P
And, even i don't own Max (what a pity :() it's really interesting to see the differences between the Big Boss and the Little Man ^^

Quote - Hi all!

I need 2 or 3 beta-testers for a Hiro outfit you could see here, here and there.

PM me if you're interested, i need a P6 owner, P5, and P7 to check compatibility.

if the admins could get around to creating a beta tester forum (or some sort of way to help us find beta testers) life would be a lot easier.

Quote -
Cool.  Maybe we can discuss it more in-depth over PM, so as not to further hijack Vince's thread here.   :-) 

I got your PM :)   ...since Vince doesn't mind us discussing it here, I'll put a synopsis of my reply here, for the benefit of those whom may have started to follow this.

I think what needs some pointing out that even though I've used Max for a while, most of what I do for work is spline and terrain modelling, and very little Subdivision modelling and handling of ePoly's in Max.

One of the things that happened with me personally with respect to hexagon is that it came along around the time I was somewhat stuck with my progress in Max. Hexagon offered a lot of similar functionality and like you said, near identical workflow, but there was something about it that made me get over the hump in my sub-d modelling progress. Between the change of scenery, and slightly different tutorials and user manuals, it just clicked.
I think perhaps Hex's documentation is written with more of a beginner level in mind. Things were just sinking in quicker for me.

Now that I've been using Hex for a while and progressed a lot more with my sub-d skills, I'd have to translate some of those to max to be able to make a really fair comparison. I plan on doing that soon.
Hope that clarifies where I'm coming from a bit more :)

Thanks, Connie.  I see a much more concise reasoning in your preference now.  Sometimes a "change of scenery" is just the catalyst one needs to advance themselves in some capacity.  I can understand why Hex would seem a lot more efficient when doing subD modeling if you weren't using Editable Polygon objects in Max.  The standard mesh objects we usually see when importing OBJ or converting primitives simply do not have all of the necessary tools to streamline subdivision surface modeling, so they need to be converted to ePoly objects first (a simple right-click menu selection will do the trick).  Once working on ePoly objects, you'll find workflow just about equal to Hex I imagine, and possibly notice even fewer steps to achieve certain things.  You should definitely find selecting edge loops, and connecting edge bands with loops just as easy (one or two clicks) in Max as it is in Hex.

Actually, I thought you were going to say your preference had more to do with something regarding polygon throughput, or perhaps OBJ exporting, since you're working on items for use in Poser.  Both of these issues seem to create problems for some content creators once in a while, although the former has been addressed in the 2008 release apparently. :-)

Quote - However, there is one plugin that leaves all else in the dust...poly boost.
Yes, it's worth it.

I checked out the Polyboost website.  Looks interesting.  Looks like it adds some "Modo-like" functionality to the Max workflow.  Modo has a few modeling tools that we don't have.  Well, let me rephrase that.  Actually, we do have them, but Modo impliments them a bit more efficiently.  The Sketch Extrude feature comes to mind.  We can do the same thing (extrude along a spline), but Modo makes the process a little bit more fun. LOL.

Quote - if the admins could get around to creating a beta tester forum (or some sort of way to help us find beta testers) life would be a lot easier.

I gather that's one of the functions of the developer's forum. If people would only go there more often :)

Maxxmodelz, the only time I had issues with OBJ exports from Max was when I wasn't careful with the export settings or with geometry, and goofed up the export scale or settings (tris' instead of preserving quads, or forgetting to change vertex scale etc)
But one can make the same user induced export errors in hexagon.

When I'm mindful of geometry and it's topology and what I'm doing, things go very smoothly. Considering ADD, this doesn't happen often :lol:

Many times I have OBJ's coming from Hex for the base model and from Max for morphs (making use of cloth sim's) and as long as I don't accidentally change the object topology, things mesh just fine. My Blacksmith Apron is an example of that. OBJ is from Hex, and all the morphs were henerated in Max, then brought back into Hex for some touchup sculpting, then exported as OBJ's to be used as morph targets.

HEX to OBJ to MAX to OBJ to HEX to OBJ to UVMAPPER to OBJ into POSER... and the vertex order stayed intact :woot:

Darkedge, Polyboost is the plugin I was thinking about. it gives MAX a lot of selection set and looping etc functionality that hex has :)

PolyBoost is the bomb, imo.
Although all of the tools it has are great I abuse the poly draw tool. Essentially you can draw your polys right on top of any existing mesh, thus creating your own topology., 
So hit Zbrush and be creative, then import that to Max and poly draw. You can get as dense/high poly or low poly as you want.
Max isn't bad, you just have to scream at it until you both reach an understanding.

I may have to get my hands on polyboost I hear so many cool things about it!

I think Max already has some pretty powerful selection sets and looping tools without any plugins.  For instance, in the sublevel of an epoly object, select an edge, click "loop", and you have your edge loop selection, click "ring", and you've selected all the edges in that band.  From there, right click in your viewport, and from the quad menu you can convert your selection to the vertexes or polygons in that selection set, and back again, etc.  Connecting the edges in a ring is just a matter of clicking "connect" and you have your new edge loop in that ring.  So basically, it's all there.  I'm not sure what something like Polyboost is going to improve on or do differently when it comes to that aspect, but I really like the sound of that polygon drawing tool, and some of the other things I saw on the website.

I agree with you Modelz about Max's ring and looping capabilities, for the most part they are quite good. Max does get finicky sometimes about what it wants to loop and/or ring...but we all have our off days. Just get in the habit of welding all verts every so often and you can mostly make things happen your way.
I have to admit I haven't used the other features of poly boost other than poly draw, haven't had a need to explore further and really just that feature alone is what inticed me most. It's hard to explain but once you use poly draw a couple of times you'll hit yourself wondering why you didn't bite earlier.

Yeah, you definitely have my interest piqued regarding that polydraw feature.  I imagine it's really great for making quick work of things like a catsuit or other kinds of clothing that fit perfectly over a figure, while keeping polygon overhead as low as possible.

Without a doubt. It does take me less time, but good modeling still takes you a while. The advantage of easily controlling topology and density though is key. You still end up fussing around with your model a while but the results are very good as opposed to, "that will work". Obviously it's for organic modeling and not machinery or such.
It took me less than a week to really get the hang of it. You learn your own little way with it and off you go! I know I sound like an advertisement, lol, but the thing really is quite cool.

Just download the video for Polyboost 3.  The selection capability of that plugin can not be done in Max by itself, without some help.  A lot of the stuff there can't be done in many of the other highend apps I've worked with either, so that's not a putdown of Max.  I have never worked with Hexagon, and really do not ever intend to, so I won't attempt to comment on if it can do these things or not.

The polydraw feature is really something Max should have integrated.  It's that good.

Just off the top of my head, Hexagon does maybe a third of the things polyboost does, mainly with selection sets.