hi guys!

well, they finally did it!

here is one very loyal DS user who will no longer be taken for a mug .

as i already have P7 and P8 i will have enough to play with for a while, so instead of me upgrading my DS to the new POS i will be saving up for the next version of PoserPro.

looking forward to learning new things!!

I think the new DS4 looks to have some interesting features, certainly some that I would like to see in poser.

John.

Welcome aboard but keep your DAZ if you intend to use Bryce. Bryce doesn't play nice with Poser all the time. So use Poser, import into DAZ and then use DAZ to send the whole shebang into Bryce. Don't give up on DAZ just yet. (Actually I'm a Poser user who just found DAZ a little too "funny" to work with.)

Why exactly don't you like the new version? I mean, I'm a loyal Poser user and while I have DS3A, there are a few things that have kept me from using it. I'm just curious to see if others have the same reasons ;). If we could do that without having a major Daz-bashing contest, that would be awesome...lol.

FWIW, the reason I use Poser rather than DS is because of 1: The DS plugin structure. I just don't like it. It does work well for some programs like Vue, but for core functionality (which I consider to be advanced shaders and dynamic cloth for example) I don't want it coming from 3rd parties where the plugin could either be broken with a core program update or a vendor who is here today and gone tomorrow. 2: As nuts as Poser's material room makes me, a lot of it still makes some sense. The DS materials are incomprehensible.

Those are my biggest two. I'm not too keen on the DS interface, but I can muddle my way thru it and I'm sure in time I'd get used to it, but the other stuff bugs me enough that I won't even stick with it that long ;).

Laurie

I too started out with Studio, but tried Poser 7 and stayed -Dynamic clothing and hair, the Setup room, as well as BB's shaders conviced me to stay. 

But for someone who doesn't need those features might be perfectly happy with Studio, and more power to them.  These are applications, not sports teams, so I don't see it as a rivalry, but a choice of tools;  kind of like the difference between Vise-Grips and ChannelLock pliers.

With DAZ moving towards bundling a Windows Service that all their 3D apps are going to require from this point forward, I won't be upgrading past what I have now. I only have DS because of Bryce and I don't see myself upgrading Bryce again next go round. Carrara either for that matter. I'm either going to continue with what I have now or just drop 3D as a hobby. This isn't against DAZ or SM, I'm just finding myself less inspired to do 3D these days and the cost is getting beyond my current budget.

Which YouTube video shows problems with DS4?  I'm about to go and view all of them showing the new features.

Quote - Why exactly don't you like the new version? I mean, I'm a loyal Poser user and while I have DS3A, there are a few things that have kept me from using it. I'm just curious to see if others have the same reasons ;). If we could do that without having a major Daz-bashing contest, that would be awesome...lol.

FWIW, the reason I use Poser rather than DS is because of 1: The DS plugin structure. I just don't like it. It does work well for some programs like Vue, but for core functionality (which I consider to be advanced shaders and dynamic cloth for example) I don't want it coming from 3rd parties where the plugin could either be broken with a core program update or a vendor who is here today and gone tomorrow. 2: As nuts as Poser's material room makes me, a lot of it still makes some sense. The DS materials are incomprehensible.

Those are my biggest two. I'm not too keen on the DS interface, but I can muddle my way thru it and I'm sure in time I'd get used to it, but the other stuff bugs me enough that I won't even stick with it that long ;).

Laurie

well, the new tabs take up way more screen than they should, the tabs are now set up so that you have to open up to 3 extra tabs to do what can be done in the parameters tab of DS3 ( ie, separate tabs for cameras, posing, lights etc.)

you can no longer select surfaces in the surface tab, without having the object selected in scene tab,

Genesis is a huge heavy figure ( the last RC download was over 430Mb, with only one outfit and a couple of lightweight hairs included with the figure)  as opposed to the 'no content' DS3A ( with basic V4 a wig and at least the bikini)  that is a 100Mb download.

the GUI has very limited choice in layout styles and configuration.

the Genesis figure appears in your 'Programs' folder as a separate .exe.

the new CMS installs as a WINDOWS SERVICE to your startup folder ( and will be basically useless to any established user as it relies on meta data tagging for the products, which none of the current store products have, except possibly the newest releases)

it has been stated, by a DEVELOPER, that DAZ3D cannot guarantee the stability of DS4, if the service is stopped or uninstalled.

pricing structure ( people are going to get a rude shock when they see the pricepoint of the various versions),

there will be 5 versions in total. one really crippled 'online only' version,  a 'free' Express version ( again, crippled) DS4 Standard ( 'free' for a short time, then 'pay for') again, with likely LESS features than current DS3 free, DS4A, with at least one essential plugin ( the Autofit)and possibly the basic Dynamic Cloth PLAYER and DS4 Pro, with  content creation tools etc.

Well, I did try DS4 beta a little. I chose an interface that wasn't quite so huge - can't remember what the name of it was tho ;). It slid out of the way when you didn't need it, which was pretty nice.

I agree that Genesis is enormous. I was also wondering: how does one get multiples of the figure into DS? I haven't tried to do that and not even  sure how I'd do it ;). Hopefully someone will.

I really despise that windows service running in the background all the time. Very unmannerly for a program to do that when it's not even open. I hope Daz changes that or at the very least gives it's users the opportunity to shut it off.

As for pricing, I really can't say. Poser isn't a cheap program and pro definitely isn't ;).

Laurie

the twisted sister song is running in my head, ' i wanna rock'.  tee hee.

i've been using Poser since version 3.

P7 is my main app.  (P8 is on order, but taking forever to ship.)

:wub: the Group Tool.  if only it could mirror a prop, like make a left shoe into a right shoe.

W3d (v99.5) is my sidekick app for morphs and props.

the last couple weeks i've been studying how to do still lifes.

i want to see what kind of new material nodes P8 comes with.

MistyLaraPrincess:

Dimension3D has a utility to make mirror images of Poser content, Content Mirror For Poser. It costs $14.80 (USD). Of course, once one has bought a boat load of utilities for Poser, it is hard to knock D/S for all of its plug-ins.

lmk

DS4 is now available for those who want to make a comparison.  The price is right...

you know. in the 10 or so years I've owned poser...

I've never actually had to buy any "plugins" or scripts for poser to get what I want to do done. all the ones I have are free, even then there's about 3 I use. 

everything else? in the program already.

Quote - you know. in the 10 or so years I've owned poser...

 

I've never actually had to buy any "plugins" or scripts for poser to get what I want to do done. all the ones I have are free, even then there's about 3 I use. 

everything else? in the program already.

True, very true ;)

I notice the "Autofit" is $98 or so, regular price (on 50% sale atm).

I've chucked DS4 into my cart, but that's just because it's free.
I doubt any of the plugins work with it yet. Last time it took weeks, sometimes months, before the plugins were updated.

Which means, in the meantime, DS4 is a crippled program, if you were on DS3A with a bunch of plugins.

And that's why I like Poser. I get it, I can use all of it, right away.

Like an idiot, I bought DS3A and missed the 30 day return by one day, because my internet was down. I figured since I'm stuck with it, I may as well try to get on with it.
The content "library" defeated me. I can't find anything in a reasonable amount of time.
I am used to Poser's cloth room. Well imagine my surprise when I found out the hard way that the only dynamic cloth you can use in DS3A has to be made by one specific company -- or it won't work.
I became more and more frustrated, because the things I expected to see -- required 3rd party plugins.
I got some of them, only to find I kept having to redownload various bits and pieces each time DS3 was updated -- resulting in a feature crippled program each time.
Since I was fixing my own stuff, I picked up the Advanced Figure Setup Tools -- after a lot of internal debate. Then someone tells me there's a 30 day trial of them -- and I returned them right away to use the trial instead.
I'm glad I sent them back, because it appears the AFST are no longer required / supported in DS4 (Don't quote me, i don't know, but several people have asked and no one got an answer. I'm guessing they won't be supported because the rigging is different now.)
Personally I want to know which plugins will no longer be supported -- because that means I've potentially wasted a lot of money on something falling by the wayside.

These days, I only pick up props at Daz and stick with what I got figure wise.

All in all, I think the whole DS thing has been a huge waste of money, a ton of frustration and worry for me -- and it's all down to "Plugins".

At first, when DS started, I thought it was a great idea -- until you had to redownload and reinstall everything with every other update, because the plugin updates always lagged behind. To my mind, it's stupid to release an update before dependent plugins are also updated, so people can keep working seamlessly.

People kept complaining about Poser 5 being buggy at release (it wasn't, for me), but I'd rather have that, and get a fix and I can use all of it, than having to update everything all the time.
I have never had to redownload an entire Poser install to get a fix, ever.

Repeating to myself: "no Daz bashing, no Daz bashing..." - I think it's working.

Quote - Repeating to myself: "no Daz bashing, no Daz bashing..." - I think it's working.

Good girl! LOLOL

Laurie

I'm not bashing Daz.
I'm bashing the way the updates are handled, and the lack of information -- which is a farce. :)
There's not even a basic user manual. shakes head
Do you know any software with a pricetag like DS3A to come without a comprehensive manual?

Makes me laugh how many people are demanding the autofit tool to be put in their purchase history, becasue it was listed on the product features of DS4.

Yeah.

That's gonna happen.

sits back with a bowl of popcorn

I have DS3A and PP2010, and switch between them fairly regularly depending on the project.  I enjoy both programs for different reasons.  To that point, I would pay dearly for SM to adopt Studio's camera lights for the next version of Poser.  That is my single most favorite part of DAZ, and I sorely miss them whenever I work with Poser.  Being able to look directly through a spot or infinite light and reposition it with my mouse is a godsend for my workflow.  I'd also like to see Studio's shader system overhauled to work with any Poser content, and their dynamic clothing system finally updated to allow user-created content.

I've been keeping an eye on the development cycle for DS4.  I haven't touched any of the betas, but some of the new features look promising.  Unfortunately, its new Content Management system is most likely going to keep me from upgrading.  I think that requiring it to run in the background as a Windows Service - even if I'm not using the program - and being unable to remove it without risking an application crash, is a stupid idea.

Well I added the free DS4 to my 'purchases' at Daz, likely it will sit untouched eternally, but hey.

Issues with DS, and it was what I started with, the crippled rendering engine.  If you require external plugins to make the most out of it, it is crippled.  Firefly might have its faults, but at least it isn't maimed to sell plugins.  3Delight is a beautiful engine, it truly is, but what Daz has done to it is anything but...

Material editor, don't like it, heck I have a love/hate relationship with the Poser mat room, but at least I can get what I want out of it with enough time and swearing.

Plugins, plugins and more plugins.  Realizing you need to shell out another X amount to get it to have any real functionality beyond load, pose, render.  Or buy the advanced or soon to be 'Pro' version.

Proprietary dynamic cloth, no dynamic hair, etc etc.

The list could keep going but I will stop now before I need to start Robyn's mantra too.

Looks like my concerns about the Content Management System have just been laid to rest.  I just read that it can be removed, and as long as I don't click on the My Stuff tab in Studio 4 - which uses the CMS - I'll be fine.

Now I just have to wait and see what they do with the 64-bit version of DS4 Advanced in a few months.

Quote - well, the new tabs take up way more screen than they should, the tabs are now set up so that you have to open up to 3 extra tabs to do what can be done in the parameters tab of DS3 ( ie, separate tabs for cameras, posing, lights etc.) you can no longer select surfaces in the surface tab, without having the object selected in scene tab,

Genesis is a huge heavy figure ( the last RC download was over 430Mb, with only one outfit and a couple of lightweight hairs included with the figure)  as opposed to the 'no content' DS3A ( with basic V4 a wig and at least the bikini)  that is a 100Mb download.

the GUI has very limited choice in layout styles and configuration.

the Genesis figure appears in your 'Programs' folder as a separate .exe.

the new CMS installs as a WINDOWS SERVICE to your startup folder ( and will be basically useless to any established user as it relies on meta data tagging for the products, which none of the current store products have, except possibly the newest releases)

it has been stated, by a DEVELOPER, that DAZ3D cannot guarantee the stability of DS4, if the service is stopped or uninstalled.

pricing structure ( people are going to get a rude shock when they see the pricepoint of the various versions),

there will be 5 versions in total. one really crippled 'online only' version,  a 'free' Express version ( again, crippled) DS4 Standard ( 'free' for a short time, then 'pay for') again, with likely LESS features than current DS3 free, DS4A, with at least one essential plugin ( the Autofit)and possibly the basic Dynamic Cloth PLAYER and DS4 Pro, with  content creation tools etc.

Wow, there's so much misinformation in your post I'm not even going to bother correcting you!:lol:

Coldrake

nyght, I dunno if this helps, but poser has the shadowcams for directional lites.  I haven't tried D|S yet.

Quote - Looks like my concerns about the Content Management System have just been laid to rest.  I just read that it can be removed, and as long as I don't click on the My Stuff tab in Studio 4 - which uses the CMS - I'll be fine.

Now I just have to wait and see what they do with the 64-bit version of DS4 Advanced in a few months.

What I have to wonder is what happens when the inevitable misclick does occur?

Quote - nyght, I dunno if this helps, but poser has the shadowcams for directional lites.  I haven't tried D|S yet.

I'm familiar with Poser's Shadow Lite cams.  Their functionality pales in comparison to what I can do with Studio's camera lights.

I use a 3D mouse for both programs - the Space Navigator by 3D Connexion.  In Studio, I can select the camera light for any spot or infinite light in my scene and then use my mouse to "fly" the light to whatever position I want, even rotate and spin it around.  I can't do that in Poser.  I have to use the parameter dials.

I've recorded a couple of short videos to demonstrate.

This is a Spot Light cam in Studio:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK87vB8DlQ8

And this is a Distant Light cam in Studio:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45XXa09XEfU

Quote - What I have to wonder is what happens when the inevitable misclick does occur?

Good question.  I might go ahead and download it just to find out.

Quote - sits back with a bowl of popcorn

Why'd you have to say that?!? Now I want popcorn!!!

Quote - > Quote - Looks like my concerns about the Content Management System have just been laid to rest.  I just read that it can be removed, and as long as I don't click on the My Stuff tab in Studio 4 - which uses the CMS - I'll be fine.

Now I just have to wait and see what they do with the 64-bit version of DS4 Advanced in a few months.

What I have to wonder is what happens when the inevitable misclick does occur?

No need to wonder, just get rid of the My Stuff tab and you won't have to worry.

Coldrake

Quote - No need to wonder, just get rid of the My Stuff tab and you won't have to worry.

Well won't be an issue for me apparently, DS4 crashes on launch on my system.

Figured I would take a look, I hate voicing an uninformed opinion.

I think I'll take that as a sign though. 

Didn't ODF use Studio's Figure Setup Tools for Antonia?

Alright, downloaded DS4, removed the CMS, rebooted, loaded DS, closed the My Stuff tab so I wouldn't accidentally click it, set up a quick scene, and rendered without any problems.

However, Preta-3D's Reality plugin has completely spoiled me rotten.  The core DS program is useless to now.  Definitely going to wait until DS4 Advanced is released and the Reality plugin is updated before I even consider upgrading.

Meanwhile, last night I started reading up on how to take better advantage of Poser's Firefly engine to get the kind of detailed renders I like. Not necessarily hyper-real, just... highly detailed. I've been having a lot of fun with the Reality plugin for DS3A, but I'm really tired of trying to get some of my more Poser-specific content to work with it.

Quote - > Quote - well, the new tabs take up way more screen than they should, the tabs are now set up so that you have to open up to 3 extra tabs to do what can be done in the parameters tab of DS3 ( ie, separate tabs for cameras, posing, lights etc.) you can no longer select surfaces in the surface tab, without having the object selected in scene tab,

Genesis is a huge heavy figure ( the last RC download was over 430Mb, with only one outfit and a couple of lightweight hairs included with the figure)  as opposed to the 'no content' DS3A ( with basic V4 a wig and at least the bikini)  that is a 100Mb download.

the GUI has very limited choice in layout styles and configuration.

the Genesis figure appears in your 'Programs' folder as a separate .exe.

the new CMS installs as a WINDOWS SERVICE to your startup folder ( and will be basically useless to any established user as it relies on meta data tagging for the products, which none of the current store products have, except possibly the newest releases)

it has been stated, by a DEVELOPER, that DAZ3D cannot guarantee the stability of DS4, if the service is stopped or uninstalled.

pricing structure ( people are going to get a rude shock when they see the pricepoint of the various versions),

there will be 5 versions in total. one really crippled 'online only' version,  a 'free' Express version ( again, crippled) DS4 Standard ( 'free' for a short time, then 'pay for') again, with likely LESS features than current DS3 free, DS4A, with at least one essential plugin ( the Autofit)and possibly the basic Dynamic Cloth PLAYER and DS4 Pro, with  content creation tools etc.

 

Wow, there's so much misinformation in your post I'm not even going to bother correcting you!:lol:

 

 

Coldrake

exactly where am i wrong? DS4 is out, no dynamic cloth player ( for one thing)

the tabs ARE set up in the way i said.

the CMS works exactly the way i said, company reps have stated in a public forum, that DAZ3D will not offer support when stopping/deleting the CMS causes the program to be unstable.

it has very limited functionality, because no meta data exists for store content

( except newer releases, possibly)

compared to DS2/DS3 GUI has very limited styles/configurations.

unimesh genesis DOES appear in the installed programs list.

400Mb plus download > 100Mb DS3A download.

my friend, you come pretty damn close to calling me a liar, not good.

maybe you can actually backup your near slander with some facts?

Repeating to myself: "no Daz bashing, no Daz bashing..." - I thought it would work. Finding 3anson's observations quite compelling, and that "there's so much misinformation in your post I'm not even going to bother correcting you" a bit dismissive, perhaps patronizing, even?

Reaching for the popcorn... sheesh, empty already?? :blink:

With the information spread over many threads and many days and from different DAZ staff its easy to get some information wrong.

When you add in that the new program launch occurs at the same time as a new website launch and the new figure launch, its no wonder DAZ seem a bit disorganised!

As if to highlight the failings of relying on a third party plugin. The Dynamic cloth player is meant to be in the released version but DAZ have switched to MS C 2010 libraries and did not get the updated libraries from Optitex in time.

None of the other packages have been finalised. We don't know if there will be 5 or what each will contain or even what they will be called. Let alone any prices or upgrade costs.

The parameters tab still behaves exactly as it did in DS3. Click on a camera and get camera parameters, click on a light and get light parameters, same with poses. The new tabs are just an extra, and perhaps quicker, way to find the setting you want. Saving a bit of scrolling down what can sometimes become a long list in the parameters tab.

A few days ago I got an emailing from Daz - as I do - notifying me of Daz Studio 4's release. Clicking on the link got me to a page that said: No such item. Now, it has been released... seems to me, based on the observations by prixat, a bit prematurely?

The likelihood of me upgrading DS3Adv seems more and more ... unlikely. What will be the analogous version, anyway?

Judging by the 'strong' reactions to the $99 price of the Autofit plugin they are probably rethinking the whole strategy as we type!

Quote - Judging by the 'strong' reactions to the $99 price of the Autofit plugin they are probably rethinking the whole strategy as we type!

<> another plugin. Is this core functionality? If so, why is this a "plugin"?

Quote - > Quote - Judging by the 'strong' reactions to the $99 price of the Autofit plugin they are probably rethinking the whole strategy as we type!

<> another plugin. Is this core functionality? If so, why is this a "plugin"?

well, depends on your definition of 'core functions'

if you want to use the outfits, hairs etc that you already have, on the new figure, yes it is 'core'

but, if you only want to buy all new outfits/hairs etc for the new figure, no it is not 'core'

BUT bear (sp?) in mind that new outfits/hairs/characters are going to be in very short supply, possibly for a very long time.

on inside info that i have recieved about projected price points, very few smaller merchants are going to fork out for the tools necessary to create outfits etc for the Genesis figure, knowing full well that the actual market be be less than 50% of the current market for earlier DAZ figures.

Look at the current Daz market. It is all about the 3rd-party merchants. They make Daz. And now Daz wants to undermine that? In Poserdom, it's the 3rd-party stuff that defines products. Making development inaccessible except to a select few is going to affect selection quite negatively.

But hey, not my decision to make, is it? :biggrin:

Quote - Reaching for the popcorn... sheesh, empty already?? :blink:

Fear not-I have a sack of Boy Scout popcorn stashed in the Pantry-Mmmm; chocolate covered!  Be Prepared...

As far as the Auto-fit plugin, it's way too expensive for my tastes-I think $20 would have been more reasonable, if that.  Who is going to use the Genesis figures much without any clothes (except those who are already using V4 nekkid, of course!)?   This ironically can only hurt development of clothing for the new series, because it will discourage use of the new figures. 

I'm sure that the Genius of Phil C or D3D will result an a similar tool for a reasonable price for the next version of Poser...

Quote - However, Preta-3D's Reality plugin has completely spoiled me rotten.  The core DS program is useless to now.  Definitely going to wait until DS4 Advanced is released and the Reality plugin is updated before I even consider upgrading.

Meanwhile, last night I started reading up on how to take better advantage of Poser's Firefly engine to get the kind of detailed renders I like. Not necessarily hyper-real, just... highly detailed. I've been having a lot of fun with the Reality plugin for DS3A, but I'm really tired of trying to get some of my more Poser-specific content to work with it.

Hmmm, Reality is a whole other debate.

There is Pose2Lux, which has entire sets of features that Reality doesn't even offer, and better yet, through the generosity of Snarlygribbly it is free.

If you want to know about how to get things to work in Lux, well, that is what a lot of the material builder types (myself included) are working on.  Stick your head in in the P2L thread or the P2L forum on the exporters website ( pose2lux.com ), someone might have some thoughts on your materials woes if you ask.  Mind, if you want it for Reality we can't really help as it isn't really a user extendable plug in.

my Poser 8 shipped.  tracking # says delivery today.  wheeee

I guess Lara is going to be too busy to post for a while...

maybe  :biggrin:

does everything i need come on the DVD?  like the Flash Player the library s'posedly needs ?

thanks!

i have no internet at home, it'll be a bummer if i can't play cuz P8 needz downloads

i'm using Windows Vista at home.  not even sure what version of IE it has.

Just make sure your IE Flash Player is freshly updated before you install and there should be no problems regardless.

that means it's not on the dvd?  sigh

Not sure if the subsequent service releases will be on the disk either? There are three of em.

Laurie

i'm clicking in circles on the Adobe download site to get the flash player.  i don't see any option to download the installer.  it wants to do it live through my day job pc.

how am i supposed to take this download home?

it'll be really disappointing if i have to return the Poser 8 after all this waiting.

Flash is on the DVD, but it's not the latest version. 

When you install Poser, check to make sure it is the current service release version.  If it's not 8.0.3.11793., grab SR3 here...

http://poser.smithmicro.com/updates.html

Have Fun-I know you'll enjoy it...

http://www3.gendisasters.com/ohio/7776/mentor-oh-train-wreck-jun-1905

You can download the latest Flash here...

http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/otherversions/

If you are going to be carrying it home, grab the Poser 8SR3 too, just in case-you don't need your Serial to download it.

Quote - Flash is on the DVD, but it's not the latest version. 

When you install Poser, check to make sure it is the current service release version.  If it's not 8.0.3.11793., grab SR3 here...

http://poser.smithmicro.com/updates.html

Have Fun-I know you'll enjoy it...

http://www3.gendisasters.com/ohio/7776/mentor-oh-train-wreck-jun-1905

Thanks for the linky.  :thumbupboth:   i see a content updater there, too.

i iz excited to see the new content.  i heard there's a lot of scifi stuff.