I am always being asked question about how to do things with MB3D so I thought I'd start a Help thread. I am not an Expert but have been using Mandelbulb3D since it first went Public about 2 years ago so if I can't answer it I most likely know someone who can. I don't do Animations though, the best place for Animation questions is at the source of MB3D at FractalForums.com, Jesse the Creator, Bib or Madman are animation experts.

Corrie

good:)Your help  will be useful

Thank you for your kind comment earlier. I just downloaded MB3D yesterday! I am having a lot of fun with it so far. But, I am having issues already though. I am using a Mac and I found the only version that I could find that would load onto a Mac. I am very limited on functions,  I have no control over object surface coloration and would love to have the Voxel Stack option to generate a 3D object for my VUE renders. I can't find the version info anywhere in the program. Would love to get more info from you.

The version number is on the "Internal" Tab, you can also select the number of threads/processors working on any project there too, the default is Max detected on your computer. If you have the Voxel option it shouldn't be a very old version the latest is v1.7.9.1

I use a PC, an old one at that but I know many others at FractalForums that use MAC without any problems at all, I think most of them run MB3D under WINE but don't know for sure, my suggestion for Problems running on a MAC is to go here at FractalForums and start a New Thread asking for Help running MB3D on a MAC, you'll get a good response, everyone is very helpful there.

http://www.fractalforums.com/mandelbulb-3d/

As far as operating a fully functional version ask away.

Quote - . I just downloaded MB3D yesterday! I am having a lot of fun with it so far. But, I am having issues already though. I am using a Mac and I found the only version that I could find that would load onto a Mac.

I just read that again, you downloaded it at FractalForums right, I don't think there is a specific version just for MAC. I know Jesse was trying to make it compatible, everyone usually keeps up with the latest version because is always making it better and better.

Thank you for the quick response. I figured out some things that were at issue. I have to shut down for tonight. Again thank you for the help. Will stay in touch! 

Hello all fractal fan

Please, about some noise point  rest in picture after rendering, what that? lightning? or what? thanks for help

Not clear on what you are asking, there are many types of noise which are you talking about, Surface noise, inherent noise, Raytrace over or under stepping, I would need an example, point me towards an image where the noise is appearent.

thank you lenord its exactly the problem on my last upload, i rectified that and its very better, i reducted these 2 step... for rendering 

Quote - thank you lenord its exactly the problem on my last upload, i rectified that and its very better, i reducted these 2 step... for rendering 

Good, also increasing the number of Max iterations and the DE Stop can help smooth out surface noise.

I added a few 256 by 256 jpg files to the M3Maps folder. I wanted more choices for the diffuse color lighting. MB3D is not picking up my added maps. Could you tell me what I am doing wrong.

Thanks,

Richard

Did you number the additional new Maps sequentially starting with the number after the last one in the folder already.

Example:

MB3D comes with 15 Maps preloaded adding Maps after that the Maps should be labeled 16, 17, 18....etc.

Only consecutive numbers for Map names will work. If you still can't access them Click INI tab and make sure the Ini Dir is set up to look for maps in the correct Folder where the Maps are located.

Thanks, I figured it out that I had to number them. I went to Fractal Formums and downloaded someone's maps and saw that they were numbered. Now I have a lot more color choices!

I didn't know that only consective numbers will work. I will have to renumber the other ones.

Thanks!

okay HELP!!! I am finally ready to USE this 3d program.. and I simply cannot figure out how to load a formula, let alone get it to render it ... is there A DIRECT link to a step by step tutorial for this progam!?

Lenord I did copy and save as both a text file and a .m3f - one of your forumulas under your recent image...and it would see the .m3f, but it said it was an old forumla and would not work in this new version...

of course I am doing something wrong.. I know. Just point me to a tutorial please?

I clicked the links proved here but they are for different fractal makers or the M3d forum and I get lost in there....

thanks very much,

Lyne

As far as a beginners Tutorial for how to use MB3D there isn't any I know of , I have an old one for the basics I did for someone a long time ago for a different Version but the Basics are the same no matter what version you use. You can sitemail me an addy and I will email it to you. What version are you using, the most current is V1.7.9.3, in the meantime here is how to load posted Param text Files. Loading Params using a MAC is different so I hope your using a PC, it's not that much different but different from what I'm told.

Firstly .m3p(Parameter), .m3f(Formula), .m3I (Rarameter+Image) files are different and they are not text files but program code. Text params undergo a conversion internally to work as .m3p files.

To load Param text files Highlight all the Text including the headerMandelbulb3Dv17{all text inside the Brackets including brackets} Right click and Copy text to the Clipboard

Open MB3D and on the "Open" Tab Click the 3rd button "Open parameters from Clipboard text" this loads the contents of the Clipboard into MB3D

Now just click Calculate to render or open the Nav Panel and start exploring or just click the Save Tab and Save the file as a new Param file so you don't loose it.

Righ.. copied it out, hate being dyslexic... but it does make me very determined!

thanks!!

Lyne

erg! either your formula is HUGE (I did reduce the size!) OR my text files are not being read right.. I tried copying both with "word wrap" on and with it off... and I am very sure I have JUST the right names/letters selected... the name and stuff in the brackets...

I get messages in the program that say:

(Check Ini-dir for formulas)
Parameters loaded, press "Calculate 3D" to render.
Error, formula option is not valid.

hmmm.

HOLD THE PRESSES! I GOT ANOTHER TO WORK!

only diff is I used the text file to "select all" and "copy"... rather than manually highlighting the characters... go figure!?

but YAY!! :))

I have been able to fool around with the coloring... so slowly getting to know the interface! :)  another YAY! :)

does a little happy dance !

okay this is just getting weird... I could use the first 3 text formulas I copied from under your images okay...but I had to give up on the last 3... It would say formula is invalid.. I will paste the latest one to give me an error here:

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
Y....UW0...33...ET...2A...Eu6DMlySudzGDTGb1eiZrjifRhVGiPtzHb30XBAYSwzK4TlHN2KPuj
................................sOxPoUqSV02........B./..................l.2..88F
................/E80/......z/...k1....k4.....o4gobItSWdD/.U8uIHE/fc.1dkpXi1.5JJ9
./EnAnID12../2kAnAnAnAnkz........UxjOaNaNaNa0z9..........6/u1....y1...sD...../..
.wHnAnQDGWNXIs5WMuHaK2teB2Odya8sAmDrpMejoqGnykAKPu1f8Fs5RaOcyK23hXeU.XeDqm3fwpho
fuP3awWegQXcy0P8vDwvt9bD.....8osk0............kD.2....sD.2kz....................
.............oAnAr1...sD....zU/S17.isBY.MZrE0UTS17.auBY.sgrE0UxS17.VSaKEU....2..
.....MEUZz1.....0.kz.23Ec.US.Y3.h....I4...EJ....k/....1...EF....8/...sH7...Uir5I
SsGIbSrPSB2MblaAumucP....Q762c..xuOb...osMgdlHzD/UNAT2kY6z1...........W/8.kOJl0.
.YqulQA8Sz9.0PJWp1Puz0..........UI.3z5MMC/..8.7WTFO/.1EVjiO8eGyD.gM3ZaYq1z9.5c..
q8dQ..ktPnvka6zj.UNAT2kY6z1..........cF68szdNJ0i..sKQUUTuz1..SdIp0byz..UKTKW1q/k
UQV0zTwXh/..kndRjg/pz.kQhUXI/1yD.ctwMy5pQ.A..ItRS/UBkM1.W4VWhl2.Tl3L.gn8gKtQ.g2I
E/.RxocXK0EI8/3.RSoa845.ZJKO.slJUisL.k/6M.U1VRsUu/.NZd4./tKX7S6.nAHA.QTRHeMR.UsQ
L/.ox/uXb/koF9B....y3q/.ee0k.1A.IJ3yAT2.wy5y3q/..wqPiBbE531Si.bPb/.Qb/U9e/rN.sWO
E6...2....E.....zzzzz1......kVKNmJKG4B3.s/.PY/........................U1C.U1Dwk1
06E./.....UHzmAnAnAJzkzzzzzz48.EMaNaNaNauyHmAnAnALB/.7nAnAnA5p.k........kz1.....
...wz.........zD........kz1...................zD........kz1.....................
........................}

All I can think of is my IE8 is not really highlighting the right bits? I use my browser at 125% so I can read words... always... only other diff is I copied the first 3-4 formulas a while back...and copied the last 3 today. argh!! I love/hate technical stuff!

Lyne

Which image is that from, maybe there was a post error when posting the params. These don't work for me either, No Formulas

oh gosh, I did not note the titles... I was trying to get both The Prize and 900 formulas... and they did not work...

I'll email the m3P files to you, just Unzip them and put them in your Parameters Folder

ooo Thanks!

I found one  problem... I unzipped the program and it's folders in my "downloads" and then I drug it to my desktop.. and all the paths to find files were still pointing to my downloads....so I started to correct those... such a simple problem, but one that I didn't know to ask...

I am slowly learning just to get something OPEN... I still get errors with the params that came with the program...but am pressing on.

I do see you can zoom IN but can you zoom back out?

Thanks.. will go check my e mail! :)

Lyne

First are you using the NAV (Navigator) Panel or just the controls at the bottom of the main panel. You should use the Nav panel for explorations, the Walking arrows zoom into or out of the image, Sliding moves across the screen and Looking is where the Camera is looking. You can also use the Mouse and mouse wheel to zoom in and out, Put the cursor on the image in the Nav screen, left click on the area you want to zoom in on and scrool forward to zoom in backwards to zoom out, the Nav will follow the mouse until you left click again.

Oh the Nav Panel is on the top left of the main screen, says 3dNav

ooohhh!!!!! DUH!! I thought it was just a 3d Preview! Ha! will def use that next time....

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2326425

Fun...your words are half gone under the right side of the post/frame box! argh! Hope Rendo pays attention to this problem! I have put a post in Community....

THANKS AGAIN! :)

Yeah, that's a weird problem, everything is fine on my Browser.

No problem, always glad to help, I've been using MB3D about 2 years, it's all pretty much second nature now, automatic.

Hi Len, and all...

I have played a bit with MB3d now and then over the past few years but never really got stuck into it...

My first and biggest question has to do with navigation...

Is there a fast and simple way to ebolve an object in the y axis for example.

Say I have an object and the face I want to look at is hiffen and facing to the right of the 2d viewport... I want to swing it around so I can see it in 3d space...

from what I can see I can rotate in the 2d axis which is not much good to me,,,, or I can nove from side to side.. I reckon that if I have to zxoom all the way out to try rotate around the y in all these fiddly steps is a non starter as I will lose the view I was happy with to start with,,,, The view... not the POV mind...

bess Zoo,, 

Using the Nav panel takes practice is all. You can rotate around an object or specific area by a combination of Sliding and Looking together. For instance Sliding by 20 or so one way then Looking back the opposite way by 10, you will see the object move across the screen and slightly rotate on the Slide(or Look) then looking(or sliding) back the opposite direction will move the Object back to the center of the FOV and Rotate a bit more. You may need to do this a few times(or more than a few) to vet the view you want. Te ammount to Look or Slide is dependent on a lot of things, amount of Zoom you're at, FoVy, DE Stop, where you are on x,y,z. You can also use the Rotations on the Main Panel to rotate the Image itself around the Center point of the image view,  I use this a lot at the beginning for getting a Whole Box view for instance positiond before Zooming and again for very fine rotations as the main panel will take Fractional degrees of rotations where the Nav will not on Sliding.

It just takes practice, play around in Nav long enough and it becomes second nature like driving a car.

Thanks Len... and how do you combine Looking and Sliding in one action.... Key combos???

Still seems frow what you're saying though you ideally should pick an aspect when zoomed out on the box to begin with and stick to that side... Bit of a killer when you're zoomed in... like the look of the 'impet on the side' and want to check it out in more detail.

I find that using walk, slide or look... more often than not I totally lose the fractal---blackout! Need to get the right kind of meds me to acquire the patience of a Saint!... I work almost entirely on impulse...

The loosing of image is probably due to the Far Plane setting and or Fog. I always kill any Fog on the Ambient Lighting Panel while exploring to away from interference, and Also push the Far Plane all the way out to 10k or more to keep the screen from blanking out. You can always adjust Far Plane and fog later. Changing view while sliding or Looking can change the Far Plane and Zoom so you always have to keep an eye on them. If a Screen Blanks try moving back the Far Plane, if that doesn't work try changing Zoom and always try Zoom in both modes, Fixed Zoom and Steps and Free, this can make a big difference in the amount of Sliding and Looking that takes place when zoomed way in.

Looking and Sliding are done in different steps, Slide then Look or Look then Slide...or slide slide look look or vice versa or Trip and fall down, LoL

It's so much second nature for me now I just find a spot I want to look at and just zoom in Slide up and look around, don't even think about it. I actually think in terms of the Camera Never moves, you move the Fractal aroud in front of the Camera.

Thanks Len... Makes perfect sense.... should have thought about that as being the problem alright!

okay.. next question... is there a way to render JUST the fractal with NO background? I can't help DOING stuff with the render! :)

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2329910

I also tried importing a picture for the background, but it seemed to do really odd things to a 2d picture...like sort of make it into a sphere?

Best,

Lyne

Firstly to not use a BG just uncheck the BG Image box on the BG Tab, now the BG will be the Ambient Depth colors and whatever Fog you use. There is 3 ways a BG can be loaded, Normal by just checking the use BG image Box. The image will be loaded as an image(bear in mind the aspect ratio of both the BG being used and the Image being rendered) if you load say a square 1:1 BG image and using a 4:3 or 2:1 or whatever aspect ratio for the rendered image that BG will be strecthed to fit, unless it's an abstract of some sort it is generally better to use a BG of the same aspect ratio as the image being rendered to minimize distortion of the BG. The 2nd load option is Scale Rows to Geographic Projection which basically stretches the top and borrom of the BG along the Horizontal. The 3rd option is load as Full BG Sphere, this spherizes the BG and now you can use the X.Y,Z sliders to rotate the BG on the Axis. The smooth on image load just adds a smoothing filter to the BG Image on loading and the Add to BG Depth (not blend) determines how heavily the Fog (Depth and Dyn) react with the BG.

Barney Tree but cannot seem to be able to cñean it up and clour it... Can anyone help?

• Zoo

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
Y.....S....O/...S....26...kuWOKFB1M..LWCUQiuqw6EpS9VmCswSynnrhA6QVYnzm6tRlTXF3wj
YaNaNaNaNy9.....................ucr8KabAzz1........4./..................Y.2...rE
..........E/..../MU//...........g2...2E2.....6LMDhPsi8qD/..........m/dkpXm1.OaNa
z.....sD12../2kAnAnAnYKwzcNaNaNa7gwj.....................oDu1....y1...sD...../..
.z1...cDHPSQHMZ9Ux1.hpGabwRkyy84YBs0i8pDJNOOovyFxrP5U12aTveMzaUdhSt7T5hjHihWaqUf
GxXmPxTTaFjnyYg2pa1Ji.qj......ob..............kD.2....sD..kz....................
.............oAnAr1...sD63iyyU/Sm3.is7L.MZbQ/UTSm3.au7L.sgbQ/UxSm3......T....k1.
................C.kz/wzzzXAL.g5.G/...M2...UA....m.507c3.E8.E....0/...koz...UJpTV
XM2RHdoZgzjdqZpz8R7vzPeRNd3.nc..zzSi............/wyBIC4OWz1..........2k.8.kXWF1.
.sM93P58iz9.MmnWK2zwz0........../6V0.cZKk/...........0EbG7eFT5tj..........E6HcUz
uc1K..kuvBTuCfuj.YqulQA8iz1.nH8X8fAozKF68kzWR2...QJqCF8lyz9.cjgvQXzzz0EAoogbpuzD
3QX0wTk/I...K4qYnFhzz0.CBS1B8..k.Y7K7Q8eyz1...6EU.......zz/6FG1.QY2E.szD/PX5..KD
v.EzTNie31kT6/4.Qs5U./0.......bT.026.......ly/6EU.......Mw5U./0......kqT.026....
...kz/6EU..........U./0.zz/6FG1.yzHkqs/.xzZteKA..24Pg/5PVZLNmtWOkR4.............
E....2....E.....I....Y....UEV7bPnlKNtF1FX/UPX/...............................6U.
0..........BnAnAnAXiz...........OHnAnAnAnwXNaNaNaNaPzMaNaNaNaNqDBnAnAnAn1y1.....
...wz0..........................................................................
........................}

Just a quick look at this I see one thing right off the bat, The Conj, Flip and Tent mode are just switches...0 off 1 on, not sure what -1 will do, probably just turn it off. If you click the "i" button next to the formula there is info for most formulas to let you know some things about the formulas.

Also some formulas are just inherently noisy and this appears to be a really noisy one as many of 4d formulas are. BarkBeam/LucaGN is the writer of a major porton of these formulas and many are adapted from 2d formule and in the 4d cases from 3d formulae. Specific Formula questions need to be directed to DarkBeam in the Forums at FractalForums.com, he wrote them he should know them. You will discover along the way the ones to steer clear of due to either the complexity of the Math involved which drastically increases Render time or are inherently noisy.

Generally noise can be remedied in several ways, Lowering the Rasystep Multiplier and Stepwidth Limiter and increasing the # of steps which increases the accuracy of the render. First step random multiplies the first raystep by a random number thusly randomizing any Uniform noise and lso the size of the Render itself, the larger the image the less obtrusive the noise.

Coloring is controled by many things, you are replacing the Gradient here using the #1 Map on Trap settings severely limiting any variation. Remove the Map and try color on 2nd choice, there is also the Coloring Tab on the center panel where the Color Mode is selected, Orbit Trap, Last length increase, Light and color routing on axis, Map input/output vectors, all these interact with the coloring and lights.

Mandelbulb3Dv17{
Y.....S....O/...c....2A...E.XOKFB1M..1wSfzYkLx6Eze9VmCswSynnrhA6QVYnz0ItRlTXF3wj
YaNaNaNaNy9.....................ucr8KabAzz1........A./..................Y.2...rE
...........3..../M.1/...........E4...2E2.....6LMDhPsi8qD/..........m/dkpXm1.OaNa
z.....kD12../2kAnAnAnYKwzcNaNaNa7gwj.....................oDu1....y1...sD...../..
.z1...cDHPSQHMZ9UxX.hpGabwRkyy84YBs0i8pDJNOOovyFxrP5U12aTveMzaUdhSt7T5hjHihWaqUf
GxXmPxTTaFjnyYg2pa1Ji.qj......om4.............kD.2....sD..kz....................
.............oAnAr1...sD63iyyUkb05.eT8Q.6/ek/UCc05.WV8Q.c6ek/Ugc05......d....k1.
.....EpsZz1.....Tyzz.wzzzX.G.I1.a....M2....E....m....c3...k6....d....M2A...UiPrH
...TFeoZgzjdqZpz8R7vzPeRN/A.nc..zzSi............0wyBIC4OWzH..........2./8.kS4p0.
.YqulQA8Sz9.fjrwdvgqz0........../E13zjbFh...fjrwdvgqzuFOf5nlcsxj.gM3ZaYq1zP61c..
p/sg..kuvBTuCfwj.gX7FmeMoz9..........oF68szdNJ0..ApKQUUTuz1.kRdIp0byz..kKTKW1q/k
/QV0z57ZL0..R8Zc4xRgz0.wQOr9PExD.ctwMy5pQ.A...6EU.......zz/6FG1.QY2E.szD/PX5..KD
v.EzTNie31kT6/4.Qs5U./0.......bT.026.......ly/6EU.......Mw5U./0......kqT.026....
...kz/6EU..........U./0.zz/6FG1.yzHkqs/.xzZteKA.7F2JL7oFmsWOkR4.TFrPTVINglqLWZrL
E....2....E.....I....Y....UEV7bPnlKNtF1FX/UPX/...............................6U.
0..........BnAnAnAXiz...........OHnAnAnAnwXNaNaNaNaPzMaNaNaNaNqDBnAnAnAn1y1.....
...wz...........................................................................
........................}

Thanks Len... will take a look at this later on... I figured out the noise reduction part of it myself actually after posting thsi and also the switches... 4am... that's my excuse... It became obvious after about the temt mode etc being no more than switches... What I did n't know about was the info,,,

The raytrace part of the settings I am familiar with from 3d but the Stepwidth stuff I was not familiar with but fiddled around with it and got an idea what it does.... That said any time I tweaked the fractal view I had to go back in and fiddlwe with the stwpwith stuff ...

Only with this fractal so far... 

think I've already got the 'steer clear' message... Just wanted to see whay could be done... not sure why formulae like this get included when as you say they tend to be inherently noisy or complex... Rather not have em in... Same with 'redundant' formulae I find in several other frac apps I use...

Thanks again my friend

Zoo 

Quote - think I've already got the 'steer clear' message... Just wanted to see whay could be done... not sure why formulae like this get included when as you say they tend to be inherently noisy or complex... Rather not have em in... Same with 'redundant' formulae I find in several other frac apps I use...

Thanks again my friend

Zoo 

Yeah, I had that conversation before at FF, many of Luca's formulas, although cool, are inherently very noisy or use Very Complex math or Triplex Math that make render times huge for my puny P4HT, if you are running 4/8/16 cores it's a blink of an eye but it starts pushin a Dual Core. But Luca is responsible for almost all of the Formula and I can live with some of them being the way they are for the many others that work so very well.

Just a tip any Formula with an Underscore _ in front of it is an ADD(transform,translate) and Not a Stand Alone formula, they make changes to either the preceeding or following Formula, they need to be used in conjuction with Stand Alone formulas in a Hybrid. Then of course the d.IFS formulas can only be used in conjunction with other d.IFS Formulas except in the case of using DE Combinate mode where F1 can be a noral Formula and F2-F6 a d.IFS hybrid or F1 is a d.IFS and F2-F6 can be any Normal Hybrid.

Thanks a million for the underscore tip... I had thought as much and that's how I've been using it... thought it only affected the preceding formula though. I found the IFS's didn't play nice with the 3ds or 4ds either.... not just the dIFS's

Guess there's a set pattern only in which they can be used in the hybrid...

Quote - Thanks a million for the underscore tip... I had thought as much and that's how I've been using it... thought it only affected the preceding formula though. I found the IFS's didn't play nice with the 3ds or 4ds either.... not just the dIFS's

 

Guess there's a set pattern only in which they can be used in the hybrid...

There are d.IFS stand alones(Shapes) and then d.IFS transforms too, the d,IFS transforms always need a Shape before it to work on.

Thanks for the background "how to" Lenord! :))

Thankfully the bad way the forum hides the words under the adds will still allow me to copy out your words and have them all.. saved to another Lenord Tut text note! :)

Lyne

this is really rough and it got a bit washed out, but basically you can have a white background to make it easy to use as an object with another background in photoshop etc. Fun! :)

Aaargh... Pulling my fair out! I read someplace that saving to M3dImage + Paramerer (.m3i) preserved both image and parameters... Great!!!
Saved Fortress....
Went to reopen it.... Only image opens and Formula error for ALL the params.

Glad I c&p'd the params to my posting so... 

Where are the params gone???

UPDATE... Nope... I'lied...

C&P'd the 'params' from the image posting here back into the app...same thing Formula missing???? That's that then for Fortress!

Attached Link: Screenshot

C:Program FilesMandelbulb3DM3i

That said however if you loaded an m3i file got an image but no formulas loaded then ya got me. Only thing I cas suggest to do is go through and reset manually all Ini directory file manuslly again and save and see what happens. I've heard people complain of this type of thing before but I have never had this happen to me in the 2 years I've used the APP

Now, I have copy and loaded others params and had Formula errors come up but it is always because they have used a Formula that I had not yet picked up from the Formula updates at FractalForums. Also it is possible for Params to somehow get scrambled in translation to and from Text, don't really know what happened in this case

Quote - Now, I have copy and loaded others params and had Formula errors come up but it is always because they have used a Formula that I had not yet picked up from the Formula updates at FractalForums. Also it is possible for Params to somehow get scrambled in translation to and from Text, don't really know what happened in this case

Here I'm on default, out of the box as it were... This set I decided to save as an m3i and not an m3p as I had red it preserves image and params... Now the params of fortress it seems are lost and gon forever... so be it,,, I kust loaded a 1 fprmula Amazing box and saved it to m3i and it reopened with image and params intact,,,, No idea what can have corrupted...

Keep in mind I saved as an m3i and then ultimately as a text from which I c and p'd the params to the post here... and they too won't load... Reckon there must be a bug in the error trapping part of the code someplace... Will just have to double save in future to both formats I reckion!

Definitely don't think it can have anything to do with Mac or Wine interfering as the app has been running perfectly otherwise...

PS. Len, What do you mean by:  I'd redo all the Ini Dir setup (Do I have to mod this?)

The program was progrmed for PC and not MAC so I have no idea about what may happen using MAC/WINE, I only use a PC and never have any problems. I know way back Jesse had to do some major revamping of the way text Params were shared to be compatible with MAC because of the way MAC uses the Clipboard feature vs the way PC does, I remember that. I rarely save an m3i file unless I am pressed for time to finish the image, m3i files can take up a couple hundred meg for a full size image, the ones I do save get shoved onto an external drive real quick. What I do is save as Param (m3p) file and as Text in a seperate text file, have about 20 Params Folders in my Main app folder and half a dozen Text Files with 20-30 sets of Params each.

Don't forget the History list too, those params are probabbly in there somewhere, that is automatic and doesn't go through any translation to and from Text, straight m3p.

Thanks... I'll check that... Totally forgot about it! =)

Looking Good Len =),,, Gotta remember that History Folder!!!! Hope I can resave the params now and they will worl.... Waiting for it to render....

Bingo! Updated the prams on the post... Not the final render but near enough,,, Just goes to show the value of forums! =)

Thanks again!